Are Klay/Dray/Barnes a juggernaut cast and auto-70-wins with any #1 option, or

[3ball]

was Curry the key that unlocked the 70-win capability?

Let's replace Curry with Lebron - with Lebron on the Warriors instead of Curry, Lebron's takeover of the SF position would include more ball-dominance than the previous SF, so that leaves less time for Dray to have the ball (or anyone).. Furthermore, replacing off-ball Curry with the typical PG increases the ball-dominance at PG, which again means less time for Dray to have the ball.. And the higher ball-dominance = less ball movement, which is the Warriors' calling card.

So replacing Curry with lebron would destroy Draymond, similar to fellow forwards Antawn Jamison, Bosh, and Love - the Warriors wouldn't be the same team and would underperform their ceiling with Lebron... Lebron wouldn't sniff 60 wins with Klay/Dray, just like he didn't with Kyrie/Love
.

[tpols]

why would you even include barnes?

as for the question, klay n dray are wizards esque on their own.

No on ball all star scorers or playmakers... has a team ever succeeded with that?

not to mention dray's second round talent not being unlocked in a sub optimal culture / team.

:facepalm

[FKAri]

Yes

[3ball]

why would you even include barnes?

as for the question, klay n dray are wizards esque on their own.

No on ball all star scorers or playmakers... has a team ever succeeded with that?

not to mention dray's second round talent not being unlocked in a sub optimal culture / team.

:facepalm
I think it drives the point home that Curry's cast wasn't otherworldly...

In addition to the middling quality of Barnes, the general thought has been for years that Dray wouldn't be shit on another team.. And Klay doesn't dribble...

So it wasn't an uber-talented cast, but they had the most optimal teamwork since da Bulls, and maybe the most potent offensive weapon too .. if it wasn't for Silver, 16' Curry would've been the first perimeter player to win scoring title and title, aside from MJ
.

[FKAri]

I think it drives the point home that Curry's cast wasn't otherworldly...

In addition to the middling quality of Barnes, the general thought has been for years that Dray wouldn't be shit on another team.. And Klay doesn't dribble...

So it wasn't an uber-talented cast, but they had the most optimal teamwork since da Bulls, and maybe the most potent offensive weapon too .. if it wasn't for Silver, 16' Curry would've been the first person player to win scoring title and title, aside from MJ
.
Barnes was the worst player in their starting lineup. He went on to be the franchise player for the Mavericks. Jesus. $tacked

[tpols]

I think it drives the point home that Curry's cast wasn't otherworldly...

In addition to the middling quality of Barnes, the general thought has been for years that Dray wouldn't be shit on another team.. And Klay doesn't dribble...

So it wasn't an uber-talented cast, but they had the most optimal teamwork since da Bulls, and maybe the most potent offensive weapon too .. if it wasn't for Silver, 16' Curry would've been the first perimeter player to win scoring title and title, aside from MJ
.


with respect to this thread were in a dilemma against the meta theory.

you need at least some on ball scoring.

no team has ever won without it.

[tpols]

if it wasn't for Silver, 16' Curry would've been the first perimeter player to win scoring title and title, aside from MJ
.



and yes... he was robbed. it was over in 5 and dray wouldve had FMVP.

Lebron was so insecure about being shown up by a small lightskinned chef that he designated his teams to let anybody else beat them.

even if it meant self destruction.

an 8 ppg throwaway iggy won a fmvp on chef's watch.

[3ball]

with respect to this thread were in a dilemma against the meta theory.

you need at least some on ball scoring.

no team has ever won without it.
Yes, and Curry provides a lot of it, and on-ball play-creating..

He's still a PG with a PG time of possession (ball-dominance), but his ball-dominance is among the lowest for PG's because he mixes in a good portion of off-ball play....

That's why replacing Curry with Lebron increases the ball-dominance at 2 positions - the new PG will invariably be more ball-dominant than Curry, and Lebron is more ball-dominant than the previous SF... So with 2 positions seeing more ball-dominance, Draymond and others becomes a spot-up shooters.. Draymond's game in particular would die

[3ball]

and yes... he was robbed. it was over in 5 and dray wouldve had FMVP.

Lebron was so insecure about being shown up by a small lightskinned chef that he designated his teams to let anybody else beat them.

even if it meant self destruction.

an 8 ppg throwaway iggy won a fmvp on chef's watch.
I find it fitting/predictable and not coincidental that a player who plays as optimally as Curry is the first perimeter player since MJ to fit scoring champion production into championship teamwork (scoring title and title)... If not for Silver of course

[iamgine]

Well Klay might be the 2nd greatest shooter ever and Draymond's a DPOY level defender. And then there's Iguodala who were All-D level coming off the bench.

It's really an excellent cast. Perhaps they wouldn't be as good with Lebron or MJ but that's really a fit issue. Not a "Curry unlock them" issue.

[LAmbruh]

https://i.postimg.cc/59zS2ZLy/gujdtyjgjgjh.png

[warriorfan]

why would you even include barnes?

as for the question, klay n dray are wizards esque on their own.

No on ball all star scorers or playmakers... has a team ever succeeded with that?

not to mention dray's second round talent not being unlocked in a sub optimal culture / team.

:facepalm

Wizards??????

Slow your roll there bud :lol

[3ball]

Well Klay might be the 2nd greatest shooter ever and Draymond's a DPOY level defender. And then there's Iguodala who were All-D level coming off the bench.

It's really an excellent cast. Perhaps they wouldn't be as good with Lebron or MJ but that's really a fit issue. Not a "Curry unlock them" issue.
MJ and Lebron play nothing alike... :facepalm ... :yaohappy:

Go watch your next Shannon Sharpe hottake but keep that ignorance out of here thanks

And the "fit" issue that you speak of is only an issue for less versatile scorers like Lebron, where only 1 player type excels alongside him (shooters)
.

[G0ATbe]

That 2016 team without Curry would be Jordans toughest finals opponent by far

[Bronbron23]

I think it drives the point home that Curry's cast wasn't otherworldly...

In addition to the middling quality of Barnes, the general thought has been for years that Dray wouldn't be shit on another team.. And Klay doesn't dribble...

So it wasn't an uber-talented cast, but they had the most optimal teamwork since da Bulls, and maybe the most potent offensive weapon too .. if it wasn't for Silver, 16' Curry would've been the first perimeter player to win scoring title and title, aside from MJ
.
You could replace curry with any really good scorer that's not ball dominant and the warriors would of been the same. replace curry with a good scorer that can defend and they're probably better. Remember the Warriors were cruising through the playoffs in 16 without curry. There offence wasn't as good without curry but there defence was much better without him. The warriors actually struggled more when Klay was out vs when curry was out.

[superduper]

Reminder- Curry's 2nd and 3rd options can't dribble and he was the catalyst of one of the greatest teams ever.

[Young X]

It's mainly Curry. Curry had the GOAT offensive season.

[RRR3]

It's Curry. Curry had the GOAT offensive season.
Thread backfire :roll:

[Docs Orders]

Does Curry win 66 games with Mo Williams in 2009?

[RRR3]

LMAO that should literally be impossible. LeBron winning 66 games with trash isn't talked about nearly enough.

[SouBeachTalents]

LMAO that should literally be impossible. LeBron winning 66 games with trash isn't talked about nearly enough.
3ball attributes almost all of that to Mo :lol

[RRR3]

3ball attributes almost all of that to Mo :lol
Wait what?

[warriorfan]

You could replace curry with any really good scorer that's not ball dominant and the warriors would of been the same. replace curry with a good scorer that can defend and they're probably better. Remember the Warriors were cruising through the playoffs in 16 without curry. There offence wasn't as good without curry but there defence was much better without him. The warriors actually struggled more when Klay was out vs when curry was out.

Mods

[bigkingsfan]

Pippen + Horace, auto 55 win team.

[3ball]

Does Curry win 66 games with Mo Williams in 2009?



Maybe in the East... 09' Mo wasn't far off from 15' Klay (first time all-stars)

Regardless, Lebron's 2nd option in 09' contributed more than Giannis' 2nd option in 19':


MO.... WILLIAMS.... 09':. 18/3/5.. 58.8 ts.. 115 ortg.. 17.2 PER.. 0.165 ws/48.. 2.3 bpm.. 3.1 vorp
KHRIS MIDDLETON 19':.'' 18/6/4.. 55.5 ts.. 106 ortg.. 16.3 PER.. 0.122 ws/48.. 0.7 bpm.. 1.6 vorp


Giannis and Lebron had comparable, 1-star casts, and 60-win favorites - but both failed to make the Finals despite being overwhelmingly expected to

This is a failure especially for Lebron, who was in his prime already and in a conference where weak casts routinely made the Finals from 01-09' (5 times - 09' Dwight.. 07' Lebron.. 02/03 Kidd.. 01' AI)

[superduper]

Maybe in the East... 09' Mo wasn't far off from 15' Klay (first time all-stars)

Regardless, Lebron's 2nd option in 09' contributed more than Giannis' 2nd option in 19':


MO.... WILLIAMS.... 09':. 18/3/5.. 58.8 ts.. 115 ortg.. 17.2 PER.. 0.165 ws/48.. 2.3 bpm.. 3.1 vorp
KHRIS MIDDLETON 19':.'' 18/6/4.. 55.5 ts.. 106 ortg.. 16.3 PER.. 0.122 ws/48.. 0.7 bpm.. 1.6 vorp


Giannis and Lebron had comparable, 1-star casts, and 60-win favorites - but both failed to make the Finals despite being overwhelmingly expected to

This is a failure especially for Lebron, who was in his prime already and in a conference where weak casts routinely made the Finals from 01-09' (5 times - 09' Dwight.. 07' Lebron.. 02/03 Kidd.. 01' AI)

Bran stans:

https://media.tenor.com/images/1e425f0991c66cd840f78b389e84f5c9/tenor.gif

[Manny98]

It's mainly Curry. Curry had the GOAT offensive season.
Dingo! :bowdown: :bowdown:

[3ball]

Dingo! :bowdown: :bowdown:
Lebron could never win 70.. what a loser

He simply doesn't play fundamentally-sound enough to have the goat teamwork needed for 70 wins

[Docs Orders]

Lebron could never win 70.. what a loser

He simply doesn't play fundamentally-sound enough to have the goat teamwork needed for 70 wins

LeBron won 66 games with Mo Williams


Jordan only won 30 games with more help, etc. Woodridge and Oakley

[Manny98]

Lebron could never win 70.. what a loser

He simply doesn't play fundamentally-sound enough to have the goat teamwork needed for 70 wins
MJ could never win 73 like Curry... what a loser :oldlol:

Neither could he go 16-1 in the playoffs

His brand of basketball is simply not as good as Currys

[Mr Feeny]

MJ could never win 73 like Curry... what a loser :oldlol:

Neither could he go 16-1 in the playoffs

His brand of basketball is simply not as good as Currys

Mj is your GOAT though:lol

[Manny98]

was Curry the key that unlocked the 70-win capability?

Let's replace Curry with Lebron - with Lebron on the Warriors instead of Curry, Lebron's takeover of the SF position would include more ball-dominance than the previous SF, so that leaves less time for Dray to have the ball (or anyone).. Furthermore, replacing off-ball Curry with the typical PG increases the ball-dominance at PG, which again means less time for Dray to have the ball.. And the higher ball-dominance = less ball movement, which is the Warriors' calling card.

So replacing Curry with lebron would destroy Draymond, similar to fellow forwards Antawn Jamison, Bosh, and Love - the Warriors wouldn't be the same team and would underperform their ceiling with Lebron... Lebron wouldn't sniff 60 wins with Klay/Dray, just like he didn't with Kyrie/Love
.
Replace Curry with MJ do the Warriors win 73 :confusedshrug:

[3ball]

MJ could never win 73 like Curry... what a loser :oldlol:

Neither could he go 16-1 in the playoffs

His brand of basketball is simply not as good as Currys
72 wins + championship > 73 wins + goat choke

So MJ's brand was far superior to Curry's

[StrongLurk]

How did Curry win less games in the regular season when Durant joined?

[3ball]

How did Curry win less games in the regular season when Durant joined?


In the regular season, the 73-win team was better at winning the attrition battle than Durant Warriors because they were playing harder, a lot harder - for example.......

- The Curry-Warriors had to move the ball super-good just to win 60 or 65 - but the Durant Warriors, not so much.. they could just take turns iso'ing and damn near get 65 wins... they just didn't have to play nearly as hard - nor were they trying to win 74 and all the pressure that would come with that - the championship would be enough

- Compared to 2016, Curry was probably playing about 70% as hard in 2017 - every time he saw Durant beside him on the court, he probably mentally shrugged his shoulders and relaxed.. that never happened in 16' when he was scoring champ and often carrying the Warriors

- The 16' Warriors had a formula that they knew worked and they could just beat it to death.. Whereas the 17' Warriors didn't have a formula with Durant, but knew they didn't need one and didn't have to play as hard.


Ultimately, there were levels of greater complacency with the 17' team, which hurt their ability to win the attrition battle each game (aka win the game)... The 16' team was wearing teams down by running their system and zipping the ball around the court .. the 17' team didn't wear down teams defensively quite as much, which gave opponents more juice for offense - so their lesser effort hurt them in the attrition battle (the game) compared to the 16' team.. however, in the playoffs, everyone was dialed in and giving max effort, so you saw a dominant run that was better than 16'
.

[3ball]

Replace Curry with MJ do the Warriors win 73 :confusedshrug:
He won 72 with Pippen and Rodman, which included the #5 all-time team offense (ortg), despite the sub-par offensive help from Pip/Rodman

So he'd obviously win much more with Klay/Dray because of the massive improvement in offense and spacing compared to Pip/Rodman.. Since MJ got the #5 all-time team offense with Pip/Rodman, he'd easily have the #1 offense with Klay/Dray, while the team defense would still be all-time great

:dancin

[StrongLurk]

In the regular season, the 73-win team was better at winning the attrition battle than Durant Warriors because they were playing harder, a lot harder - for example.......

- The Curry-Warriors had to move the ball super-good just to win 60 or 65 - but the Durant Warriors, not so much.. they could just take turns iso'ing and damn near get 65 wins... they just didn't have to play nearly as hard - nor were they trying to win 74 and all the pressure that would come with that - the championship would be enough

- Compared to 2016, Curry was probably playing about 70% as hard in 2017 - every time he saw Durant beside him on the court, he probably mentally shrugged his shoulders and relaxed.. that never happened in 16' when he was scoring champ and often carrying the Warriors

- The 16' Warriors had a formula that they knew worked and they could just beat it to death.. Whereas the 17' Warriors didn't have a formula with Durant, but knew they didn't need one and didn't have to play as hard.


Ultimately, there were levels of greater complacency with the 17' team, which hurt their ability to win the attrition battle each game (aka win the game)... The 16' team was wearing teams down by running their system and zipping the ball around the court .. the 17' team didn't wear down teams defensively quite as much, which gave opponents more juice for offense - so their lesser effort hurt them in the attrition battle (the game) compared to the 16' team.. however, in the playoffs, everyone was dialed in and giving max effort, so you saw a dominant run that was better than 16'
.

So they were coasting. How come you don't say Lebron's 2015-2018 teams were coasting in the regular season?

[tpols]

So they were coasting. How come you don't say Lebron's 2015-2018 teams were coasting in the regular season?


When you set the record for wins, you only have down to go.

Of course they coasted after that.

Lebrons teams never hit that pinnacle, they couldn't even crack 60 wins lmao

[StrongLurk]

When you set the record for wins, you only have down to go.

Of course they coasted after that.

Lebrons teams never hit that pinnacle, they couldn't even crack 60 wins lmao

Yeah, cause those teams clearly coasted in the regular season mostly (2018 less so with Kyrie gone).

Lebron with less talented teams won more games in 2009/2010 because they weren't "coasting".

3ball gives excuses for pretty much everything non-Lebron, but those excuses disappear for Lebron.

[tpols]

Yeah, cause those teams clearly coasted in the regular season mostly (2018 less so with Kyrie gone).

Lebron with less talented teams won more games in 2009/2010 because they weren't "coasting".

3ball gives excuses for pretty much everything non-Lebron, but those excuses disappear for Lebron.


Why would they coast in 2015 right when they teamed up? Thats dumb and has no relevance to 2009.

You're supposed to use the regular season to build chemistry and teamwork. Coasting for an entire tenure is retarded, and exactly why they underachieved and were the dubs whipping boy.

[3ball]

So they were coasting. How come you don't say Lebron's 2015-2018 teams were coasting in the regular season?


Because he never established juggernaut status first

Instead, he basically commits fraud - he semi-tanks the regular season to be an underdog against all the best teams in the playoffs, thus protecting himself from backlash of losing (by being the poor underdog that lebron had to carry)... When in reality, Kyrie/Love are easily better than Klay/Dray and proved it in the 16' Finals... :rolleyes: ... (and love was injured)..

Again, it's fraud - concealing the truth.. his roster was on-par with the 16' Warriors, yet he comes off as a big underdog and savior because he failed to flirt with 70 wins and establish juggernauts like Kawhi and Curry did that year

So it's either fraud, or he just isn't good enough to win 70 despite stacked squads .

[StrongLurk]

Because he never established juggernaut status first

Instead, he basically commits fraud - he semi-tanks the regular season to be an underdog against all the best teams in the playoffs, thus protecting himself from backlash of losing (by being the poor underdog that lebron had to carry)... When in reality, Kyrie/Love are easily better than Klay/Dray and proved it in the 16' Finals... :rolleyes: ... (and love was injured)..

Again, it's fraud - concealing the truth.. his roster was on-par with the 16' Warriors, yet he comes off as a big underdog and savior because he failed to flirt with 70 wins and establish juggernauts like Kawhi and Curry did that year

So it's either fraud, or he just isn't good enough to win 70 despite stacked squads .

Thanks for proving my post that you responded to :cheers: