Duncan lost in the first round as a 1 seed [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

Shogon

08-20-2019, 10:30 PM

Yes this is the West cookie this ain't the ***** ass East where you're facing absolute trash in the playoffs.

Looking at the top 8 teams in the West last year... 5 were trash that never even had a glimmer of hope at a title... arguably 7 if you recognize Harden's teams inevitably fold and that Denver was a paper contender.

The East had 3 potential winners... 76ers, Raptors, Bucks.

The West will be stronger this year because there will be three or four contenders... Warriors, Lakers, Clippers... MAYBE Rockets(but no... so three)... so you have that going for your argument.

tpols

08-20-2019, 10:33 PM

Wild wild west.

3ball

08-20-2019, 11:03 PM

Only MJ never lost as a 1 or 2 seed

Whereas normal humans like Magic, Lebron, Bird, Kareem, etc lost 5+ times each (Kareem 9 times)

The goat isn't supposed to lose with a good team, and only MJ fulfilled this goat requirement

Oh wait this thread is about Duncan.. my bad
.

StrongLurk

08-20-2019, 11:07 PM

Yes this is the West cookie this ain't the ***** ass East where you're facing absolute trash in the playoffs.

An 8th seed in the East made the finals in 99...ironically lost against Duncan in the finals.

In your opinion, was Duncan's ring weak that year or was the East "strong" since the 8th seed beat the 1 seed?

sportjames23

08-21-2019, 01:12 AM

Kblaze8855

08-21-2019, 07:49 AM

3ball

08-21-2019, 08:54 PM

The 2 seed in 1990 won less games than the Bulls....

The Bulls had the second best record in the East but the 76ers won the Atlantic division so they got the second seed with a worse record.

They changed that rule a while back to winning a division with a worse record wouldnt guarantee you any particular seed.

I'd like to add the higher-winning 3 seed that you found to the list below as an MJ loss, but then I'd have to do that for everyone - that's uneccessary work since the list below clearly shows MJ is the most unbeatable player (aka goat):

Losses as 1 or 2 seed

Bird: 5
Magic: 6
Wilt: 9
Russell: 2
Kareem: 9
Kobe: 4
Shaq: 5
Duncan: 6
Lebron: 6
the goat: 0

With the minimal help that all stars need to win, MJ was the most unbeatable and won the most in the modern era.. :confusedshrug:

PickernRoller

08-21-2019, 08:57 PM

Beat Bran as an AARP member. Balances out.

tpols

08-21-2019, 08:57 PM

I'd like to add the higher-winning 3 seed that you found to the list below as an MJ loss, but then I'd have to do that for everyone - that's uneccessary work since the list below clearly shows MJ is the most unbeatable player (aka goat):

Losses as 1 or 2 seed

Bird: 5
Magic: 6
Wilt: 9
Russell: 2
Kareem: 9
Kobe: 4
Shaq: 5
Duncan: 6
Lebron: 6
the goat: 0

With the minimal help that all stars need to win, MJ was the most unbeatable and won the most in the modern era.. :confusedshrug:

damn... he needed magic.

and wilt needed bill russell to have never played. :oldlol:

toxicxr6

08-21-2019, 09:11 PM

Didn

StrongLurk

08-21-2019, 09:13 PM

I'd like to add the higher-winning 3 seed that you found to the list below as an MJ loss, but then I'd have to do that for everyone - that's uneccessary work since the list below clearly shows MJ is the most unbeatable player (aka goat):

Losses as 1 or 2 seed

Bird: 5
Magic: 6
Wilt: 9
Russell: 2
Kareem: 9
Kobe: 4
Shaq: 5
Duncan: 6
Lebron: 6
the goat: 0

With the minimal help that all stars need to win, MJ was the most unbeatable and won the most in the modern era.. :confusedshrug:

MJ was a 1 or 2 seed in the expansion era, everyone knows the 90's were the weakest era for "elite" teams.

MJ would have lost at some point if he went up against the 80's Lakers/Celtics or some of the superteams of the post 2008 Celtics.

Kblaze8855

08-21-2019, 09:20 PM

I'd like to add the higher-winning 3 seed that you found to the list below as an MJ loss, but then I'd have to do that for everyone - that's uneccessary work since the list below clearly shows MJ is the most unbeatable player (aka goat):

Losses as 1 or 2 seed

Bird: 5
Magic: 6
Wilt: 9
Russell: 2
Kareem: 9
Kobe: 4
Shaq: 5
Duncan: 6
Lebron: 6
the goat: 0

With the minimal help that all stars need to win, MJ was the most unbeatable and won the most in the modern era.. :confusedshrug:

That I found? I just remember 1990. I remember watching the games hearing it discussed and what you said would be quite misleading to people too young to know better.

rmt

08-21-2019, 09:44 PM

[QUOTE=toxicxr6]Didn

3ball

08-21-2019, 09:46 PM

MJ was a 1 or 2 seed in the expansion era, everyone knows the 90's were the weakest era for "elite" teams.

MJ would have lost at some point if he went up against the 80's Lakers/Celtics or some of the superteams of the post 2008 Celtics.

Perhaps the Bulls might've lost a series to the Celtics or Lakers, since it would've been dynasty juggernaut vs. dynasty juggernaut (which only ever happened previously in the 80's)

But they would've won a bunch too, and therein lies the rub - facing great teams doesn't prevent you from having great teams yourself that can compete evenly/effectively... But Lebron failed to compete effectively because he's 2-6 against the Spurs/Warriors/Mavs, including 2 sweeps, 2 record defeats, and the goat choke

Btw, MJ played in a 2-star vs 2-star format and won 6 rings (6/6); Lebron played in a 3 star vs 3-star format and won 3 rings (3/9).. so that speaks to the "superiority" of lebron's opponents, or lack thereof since Lebron always had 3-4 HOF teammates himself.

Finally, Lebron was compensated for his perceived Finals "comp" by getting more Finals chances via weaker comp in the first 3 rounds (weak conference)

StrongLurk

08-21-2019, 10:06 PM

Perhaps the Bulls might've lost a series to the Celtics or Lakers, since it would've been dynasty juggernaut vs. dynasty juggernaut (which only ever happened previously in the 80's)

But they would've won a bunch too, and therein lies the rub - facing great teams doesn't prevent you from having great teams yourself that can compete evenly/effectively... But Lebron failed to compete effectively because he's 2-6 against the Spurs/Warriors/Mavs, including 2 sweeps, 2 record defeats, and the goat choke

Btw, MJ played in a 2-star vs 2-star format and won 6 rings (6/6); Lebron played in a 3 star vs 3-star format and won 3 rings (3/9).. so that speaks to the "superiority" of lebron's opponents, or lack thereof since Lebron always had 3-4 HOF teammates himself.

Finally, Lebron was compensated for his perceived Finals "comp" by getting more Finals chances via weaker comp in the first 3 rounds (weak conference)

Like how you leave out the 2012 Thunder who were a great team and won 4 in a row against the Spurs in the WCF after going down 0-2.

Also Lebron did not have a 3 star team in 2007, 2014, 2015 and 2018.

The only time that MJ would have won where Lebron lost was 2011.

3ball

08-21-2019, 11:11 PM

Like how you leave out the 2012 Thunder who were a great team and won 4 in a row against the Spurs in the WCF after going down 0-2.

Also Lebron did not have a 3 star team in 2007, 2014, 2015 and 2018.

The only time that MJ would have won where Lebron lost was 2011.
14' .Wade. - 19 on 55% in ECF.. 15 on 41% in Finals.. 32 yrs old.. all-star for 2 more yrs
98' Pippen - 16 on 41% in ECF.. 15 on 41% in Finals.. 33 yrs old.. last all-star year was 97'

(btw, Bosh was 29 in 2014 and in his uber-prime, but everyone knows there was only a limited role for him next to lebron's style)

So if Wade and Bosh weren't stars in 2014, than Pippen wasn't a star in 97 or 98'... The 14' Heat were a definitely a 3-star team with Lebron/Wade/Bosh plus an extra HOF in Ray Allen

And you're overrating the Spurs because of how they beat the Heat... you're forgetting that the 91' Bulls ended the Pistons' back-to-back run the same way that the Spurs did the Heat - yet you claim other teams like the 80's teams could beat the 90's Bulls, while the 14' Spurs are unbeatable and NO ONE could've beaten them?.. gtfo.. that makes no sense.. the Mavs almost beat them in the first round and MJ would beat them easily with 2 other stars plus Ray Allen (3 HOF teammates)

MJ simply never lost with help like that... you forget that MJ would've been 4/4 from 90-93' if not for Pip's migraine - he wouldn't have that issue vs the Spurs and would have an extra star and 2 extra HOF teammates.. btw, MJ's 90' run shows the massive talent deficit that the bulls had to the Pistons - and the 91' team was basically the same as the 90' team - the Bulls simply overcame a more talented juggernaut dynasty in their own conference.. period
.

brooks_thompson

08-21-2019, 11:32 PM

Man that wasn't Duncan's fault. Playoffs Grizz were better than their record because Rudy Gay was out injured (closer to a 50-55 win team like they would be the following years). Popovich barely played Splitter for some reason, considering the rest of the frontcourt was Bonner, Blair, and I think maybe a rickety McDyess in his very last season. Randolph, matured and at his absolute peak, was on a mission that year.

Will remind you that the Grizz took OKC to 7 in the next round, including an OT and triple OT thriller (those 2 teams always had the best slug it out series). They would've beaten the Heat as well, should they have gotten past the magical Dallas team. Grizz due to their frontcourt always had Miami's number.

Spurs m8

08-22-2019, 01:02 AM

Wild wild West confirmed.

And he STILL won 5 titles.

How many titles did LeRoid win playing in the weakest conferences we have ever seen?

Gunslinger

08-22-2019, 01:06 AM

Didn’t manu.. Duncan’s second option play with a broken arm that series?

Yes and missed game 1 too. In addition, Pop played Bonner and Blair (imagine either of them vs Zach or M. Gasol) over Splitter who did not get off the bench until game 4 - yet another stupid mistake by Pop.

Man that wasn't Duncan's fault. Playoffs Grizz were better than their record because Rudy Gay was out injured (closer to a 50-55 win team like they would be the following years). Popovich barely played Splitter for some reason, considering the rest of the frontcourt was Bonner, Blair, and I think maybe a rickety McDyess in his very last season. Randolph, matured and at his absolute peak, was on a mission that year.

Will remind you that the Grizz took OKC to 7 in the next round, including an OT and triple OT thriller (those 2 teams always had the best slug it out series). They would've beaten the Heat as well, should they have gotten past the magical Dallas team. Grizz due to their frontcourt always had Miami's number.

Good to see actual context being brought to the table rather than just biased basketball reference extrapolations.

Too bad the OP won't respond to any of these important details as he's just an unknowledgeable Branvestite who brings no value to this forum other than clickbaity threads aimed at deceptively deconstructing other GOAT rivals.

:coleman:

SouBeachTalents

08-22-2019, 01:18 AM

Like how you leave out the 2012 Thunder who were a great team and won 4 in a row against the Spurs in the WCF after going down 0-2.

Also Lebron did not have a 3 star team in 2007, 2014, 2015 and 2018.

The only time that MJ would have won where Lebron lost was 2011.
For real, lol at that dude leaving off the Thunder for absolutely no reason

And of course he completely sidestepped your argument that he didn't have 2 stars for the majority of his Finals losses, then doubled down by claiming Wade in 2014 Finals played as well as Pippen in '98 ::oldlol:

Gunslinger

08-22-2019, 01:32 AM

To be fair, LeBron missed the play-offs three times, including one in his prime.

Making the play-offs > missing the play-offs.

And don't give me no excuses about "LeBron was injured." Manu, Duncan's second option had a fukking broken arm and you ignored that. Gotta do the same for old Bran Bran.

StrongLurk

08-22-2019, 10:20 AM

3ball

08-22-2019, 11:38 AM

For real, lol at that dude leaving off the Thunder for absolutely no reason

And of course he completely sidestepped your argument that he didn't have 2 stars for the majority of his Finals losses, then doubled down by claiming Wade in 2014 Finals played as well as Pippen in '98 ::oldlol:
I left off the thunder because it's irrelevant - the original argument was that facing great teams doesn't prevent you from having a great team yourself that can compete evenly/effectively - but lebron is 2-5 vs. the Spurs/Warriors, so he didn't compete evenly/effectively with them

And lebron had 2 stars for the 2011, 2014, and 2017 losses - the series ranged from decisive losses (11') to record blowout (14, 17').. there's no getting around that... MJ and many other players would've won in 11' and 14'.

And even though he didn't have 2 stars in 2007 or 2018, did he have to play so horribly in 2007 or lose by record amount in 18'?.. 07' was individual failure/underperformance, and 18' was team failure/underperformance.

And again, 14' Wade was the younger player who had more good years left compared to 98' Pippen, who was done.. both played poorly in the playoffs, whether we're talking ECF or Finals - but regardless, both were still considered "stars".. (i.e. lebron lost with 2 star teammates in 14')... :rolleyes:..

StrongLurk

08-22-2019, 12:00 PM

I left off the thunder because it's irrelevant - the original argument was that facing great teams doesn't prevent you from having a great team yourself that can compete evenly/effectively - but lebron is 2-5 vs. the Spurs/Warriors, so he didn't compete evenly/effectively with them

And lebron had 2 stars for the 2011, 2014, and 2017 losses - the series ranged from decisive losses (11') to record blowout (14, 17').. there's no getting around that... MJ and many other players would've won in 11' and 14'.

And even though he didn't have 2 stars in 2007 or 2018, did he have to play so horribly in 2007 or lose by record amount in 18'?.. 07' was individual failure/underperformance, and 18' was team failure/underperformance.

And again, 14' Wade was the younger player who had more good years left compared to 98' Pippen, who was done.. both played poorly in the playoffs, whether we're talking ECF or Finals - but regardless, both were still considered "stars".. (i.e. lebron lost with 2 star teammates in 14')... :rolleyes:..

MJ would have lost in 2014, because the Heat got crushed on defense through a barrage of historic three point shooting.

MJ never faced a team like that who could hit 15-20 threes a game and play elite defense at the same time.

3ball

08-22-2019, 01:27 PM

:rolleyes:

3ball

08-22-2019, 01:29 PM

MJ would have lost in 2014, because the Heat got crushed on defense through a barrage of historic three point shooting.

MJ never faced a team like that who could hit 15-20 threes a game and play elite defense at the same time.

You're wrong because the Spurs only blew out the 14' Heat like that

The Heat beat the exact same team the previous year, and Dallas almost beat them in the 1st round of 14'.

Here's the reality - if Lebron-ball was still putting the 14' Spurs' defense on their heels like in 2013, the Spurs wouldn't have gotten hot like that on offense.

The Spurs had simply figured out Lebron-ball, which no longer gave them any issues or wore them down defensively, so they had abnormally-high energy and confidence on offense..

it was like a boxer that realizes they can take the opponent's power.. they start teeing off like the Spurs did..

im telling you, Lebron-ball is a joke and he's a fraud, manufactured/colluded star.. that's why all his Finals loss end in 3 straight, decisive defeats - teams simply figure out bron-ball.. heck, MJ didn't lose 3 staught for 8 years lol!

SpaceJam2

08-22-2019, 04:12 PM

StrongLurk

08-22-2019, 04:26 PM

You're wrong because the Spurs only blew out the 14' Heat like that

The Heat beat the exact same team the previous year, and Dallas almost beat them in the 1st round of 14'.

Here's the reality - if Lebron-ball was still putting the 14' Spurs' defense on their heels like in 2013, the Spurs wouldn't have gotten hot like that on offense.

The Spurs had simply figured out Lebron-ball, which no longer gave them any issues or wore them down defensively, so they had abnormally-high energy and confidence on offense..

it was like a boxer that realizes they can take the opponent's power.. they start teeing off like the Spurs did..

im telling you, Lebron-ball is a joke and he's a fraud, manufactured/colluded star.. that's why all his Finals loss end in 3 straight, decisive defeats - teams simply figure out bron-ball.. heck, MJ didn't lose 3 staught for 8 years lol!

This post literally makes zero sense. We are talking about defense and you claim lebron-ball (offense) is the problem for defense. You're not making any sense.

3 point shooting is high variation and a good 3 point shooting team can absolutely shoot cold in a series and then extremely hot in the next. The Spurs team were elite all around, so them exploding with threes was just too much.

Matchups are important in basketball. It's why some great teams go to 7 games in the second round but then win the CFs and Finals in 5 games. Raptors this year BARELY beat the Sixers in the SECOND ROUND.

Heat in 2012 beat the Celtics in 7...yet beat a BETTER team in the 2012 Thunder in 5. Cavs in 2018 were taken to seven games in the 1st round...yet SWEPT the better Raptors (than Pacers) in the next round. These are just quick examples off the top of my head.

You're trash as a poster brah.

3ball

08-24-2019, 12:23 AM

This post literally makes zero sense. We are talking about defense and you claim lebron-ball (offense) is the problem for defense. You're not making any sense.

3 point shooting is high variation and a good 3 point shooting team can absolutely shoot cold in a series and then extremely hot in the next. The Spurs team were elite all around, so them exploding with threes was just too much.

Matchups are important in basketball. It's why some great teams go to 7 games in the second round but then win the CFs and Finals in 5 games. Raptors this year BARELY beat the Sixers in the SECOND ROUND.

Heat in 2012 beat the Celtics in 7...yet beat a BETTER team in the 2012 Thunder in 5. Cavs in 2018 were taken to seven games in the 1st round...yet SWEPT the better Raptors (than Pacers) in the next round. These are just quick examples off the top of my head.

You're trash as a poster brah.
The Heat beat the same Spurs team in 2013 as the FAVORITE in the matchup, and confirmed their advantage by winning the series.

So you're argument is false - the Heat's younger core and greater athleticism had the matchup edge, yet they went from winning in 13' to losing in 14' by more than anyone else ever did.. They lost by much more than any matchup gap you conjure or the odds predicted (the odds were basically even in 14'.. 21/20 Spurs)

And the normally quiet Duncan called it before the series even started... The Spurs only went off on the Heat because the Heat was the team they had solved... You should accept that low-diversity offenses like CP3/Lebron/Nash become easy for the best teams to defend in the adjustment-friendly playoffs..

once the opponent is comfortable and not getting worn down defensively, they start teeing off offensively.. lebron can only win the attrition battle like that against weak teams like the raptors, while his teams lose the attrition battle against even Dwight Howard, let alone the Spurs.. lebron-ball is simply cancer.. wait and see how it ultimately takes down this Lakers franchise

StrongLurk

08-24-2019, 01:56 PM

The Heat beat the same Spurs team in 2013 as the FAVORITE in the matchup, and confirmed their advantage by winning the series.

So you're argument is false - the Heat's younger core and greater athleticism had the matchup edge, yet they went from winning in 13' to losing in 14' by more than anyone else ever did.. They lost by much more than any matchup gap you conjure or the odds predicted (the odds were basically even in 14'.. 21/20 Spurs)

And the normally quiet Duncan called it before the series even started... The Spurs only went off on the Heat because the Heat was the team they had solved... You should accept that low-diversity offenses like CP3/Lebron/Nash become easy for the best teams to defend in the adjustment-friendly playoffs..

once the opponent is comfortable and not getting worn down defensively, they start teeing off offensively.. lebron can only win the attrition battle like that against weak teams like the raptors, while his teams lose the attrition battle against even Dwight Howard, let alone the Spurs.. lebron-ball is simply cancer.. wait and see how it ultimately takes down this Lakers franchise

Once again, you are saying the Heat lost because of their OFFENSE, when they clearly lost because of their DEFENSE.

You are just conveniently ignoring the large variation of three point shooting and playoff matches.

PLENTY of championship teams struggle early in the playoffs more than they do in the CF or even finals.

It's so easy to refute the vast majority of your points because you are just an obsessed loser troll and contradict yourself over and over depending on who you are arguing for or against.

superduper

08-24-2019, 02:01 PM

1-9 before Pippen tho...

Next

Irrelevant before collusion though...

Next

3ball

08-24-2019, 02:28 PM

Once again, you are saying the Heat lost because of their OFFENSE, when they clearly lost because of their DEFENSE.

You're wrong again because the Heat drastically underperformed on offense in the 2014 Finals (104 ortg in the Finals, compared to 111 in regular season)

So Lebron-ball was solved in 2014 and didn't wear down the Spurs like it had in 2013 - since the Spurs weren't getting disorganized or worn down defensively anymore, they went bananas on offense..

otoh - a confused, on-their-heels, or worn-down defense can't get hot offensively.. it's the attrition battle and Lebron-ball is poor at winning that battle on the championship level.

Again you should accept that low-diversity offenses like CP3/Lebron/Nash become easy for the best teams to defend in the adjustment-friendly playoffs.

You are just conveniently ignoring the large variation of three point shooting and playoff matches.

The Spurs only got hot like that against the Heat because that's the team they'd solved - there was no large variation in the other series and teams don't have swings that massive from series to series.

you're just making things up at this point.

PLENTY of championship teams struggle early in the playoffs more than they do in the CF or even finals.

Who cares - Lebron lost by record amount despite the odds being even and he shouldn't have lost at all (and infact won the prior year).

StrongLurk

08-24-2019, 03:30 PM

You're wrong again because the Heat drastically underperformed on offense in the 2014 Finals (104 ortg in the Finals, compared to 111 in regular season)

So Lebron-ball was solved in 2014 and didn't wear down the Spurs like it had in 2013 - since the Spurs weren't getting disorganized or worn down defensively anymore, they went bananas on offense..

otoh - a confused, on-their-heels, or worn-down defense can't get hot offensively.. it's the attrition battle and Lebron-ball is poor at winning that battle on the championship level.

Again you should accept that low-diversity offenses like CP3/Lebron/Nash become easy for the best teams to defend in the adjustment-friendly playoffs.

The Spurs only got hot like that against the Heat because that's the team they'd solved - there was no large variation in the other series and teams don't have swings that massive from series to series.

you're just making things up at this point.

Who cares - Lebron lost by record amount despite the odds being even and he shouldn't have lost at all (and infact won the prior year).

Wrong again, the Spurs ORTG was much higher in the finals, they won mostly because of their 3 point shooting hitting everything in sight. Lebron himself played great on offense.

The rest of your post is bullshit, narrative that you make up in your head :hammerhead:

All you can do is respond with more drivel so I'm done with you in the thread.

Next please.

Real14

08-24-2019, 03:44 PM

Duncan is indeed overrated

3ball

08-24-2019, 04:09 PM

Wrong again, the Spurs ORTG was much higher in the finals, they won mostly because of their 3 point shooting hitting everything in sight. Lebron himself played great on offense.

The rest of your post is bullshit, narrative that you make up in your head :hammerhead:

All you can do is respond with more drivel so I'm done with you in the thread.

Next please.
You made shit up anyway - you originally said the Spurs were a bad matchup - then I pointed out the Heat were favored in 13' and won, so you abandoned that argument.

You claimed the Heat's defense was the reason for the loss - I point out that the Heat drastically underachieved their normal ortg, so now you have no other argument

Going forward, accept that low-diversity offenses like CP3/Lebron/Nash become easy for the best teams to defend in the adjustment-friendly playoffs.. Then you won't think it's a random occurrence when some team starts going off on them

StrongLurk

08-24-2019, 06:02 PM

You made shit up anyway - you originally said the Spurs were a bad matchup - then I pointed out the Heat were favored in 13' and won, so you abandoned that argument.

You claimed the Heat's defense was the reason for the loss - I point out that the Heat drastically underachieved their normal ortg, so now you have no other argument

Going forward, accept that low-diversity offenses like CP3/Lebron/Nash become easy for the best teams to defend in the adjustment-friendly playoffs.. Then you won't think it's a random occurrence when some team starts going off on them

I literally never said the bolded.

Also yes, the Spurs crushed the Heat's defense more than the Heat and Lebron specifically struggled on offense.

I know you don't watch basketball anyways. If you did, you would have WATCHED the 2014 finals and seen the Spurs torching the Heat.

You should just focus on other threads on this point, you look bad.

Next please.

Smoke117

08-24-2019, 06:21 PM

3ball

08-24-2019, 06:29 PM

Duncan also lost in the first round as the defending champion. Scottie Pippen, meanwhile, lost the best player in the league and took the Knicks to a 7 games in a series in the second round where the Bulls got screwed over by a terrible call.
Do you realize the level of basketball the Bulls were playing after 3-peating?

You think it's the same level of basketball the 89' Bulls would've played without Jordan?

Is that what you think??... :roll: :roll: :roll: :yaohappy:

Smoke117

08-24-2019, 06:33 PM

Do you realize the level of basketball the Bulls were playing after 3-peating?

You think it's the same level of basketball the 89' Bulls would've played without Jordan?

Is that what you think??... :roll: :roll: :roll: :yaohappy:

What is this supposed to mean? What do the 89 bulls have to do with anything? Pippen wasn't 1/3rd of the player he was in 89 compared to 94.

3ball

08-24-2019, 06:36 PM

What is this supposed to mean? What do the 89 bulls have to do with anything? Pippen wasn't 1/3rd of the player he was in 89 compared to 94.

Even if he was, they weren't winning 55 games - they only won 47 with Jordan

It's pretty dumb to do basketball analysis under the assumption that teamwork and brand of ball doesn't exist and isn't a factor... yet that's what you Lebron stans do

Smoke117

08-24-2019, 06:39 PM

Even if he was, they weren't winning 55 games - they only won 47 with Jordan

It's pretty dumb to do basketball analysis under the assumption that teamwork doesn't exist and isn't a factor, yet that's what you Lebron dummies do

Ah, you're one of those. If you don't agree with me you're a "LeBron dummy". Let's completely ignore the fact that I've never been a lebron fan at any point in his career, but okay. Again, though, what does 89 have to do with anything? Also, who said Pippen would lead the 89 bulls to 55 games? What the fukk does that have to do with anything? You're obsessiveness with Jordan is insane. You have serious psychological issues. Nothing you have said in response to the fact that Duncan lost in the first round as a defending champion and Pippen took the Bulls to the 2nd round in a 7 game series they were screwed out of without the best player in the world makes any sense. You have just gone on some bizarre tangent about the 89 bulls that has nothing to do with anything.

SouBeachTalents

08-24-2019, 06:42 PM

Smoke117

08-24-2019, 06:44 PM

Honestly though, I can't decide if he's more obsessed with Jordan or LeBron. It seems like he posts more about LeBron these days

His obsession with LeBron is directly fueled by his obsession with Jordan and the insecurity LeBron's greatness gives him. If LeBron was just some top 40 player all time regular all star he wouldn't care about him at all.

3ball

08-24-2019, 07:11 PM

Ah, you're one of those. If you don't agree with me you're a "LeBron dummy". Let's completely ignore the fact that I've never been a lebron fan at any point in his career, but okay. Again, though, what does 89 have to do with anything? Also, who said Pippen would lead the 89 bulls to 55 games? What the fukk does that have to do with anything? You're obsessiveness with Jordan is insane. You have serious psychological issues. Nothing you have said in response to the fact that Duncan lost in the first round as a defending champion and Pippen took the Bulls to the 2nd round in a 7 game series they were screwed out of without the best player in the world makes any sense. You have just gone on some bizarre tangent about the 89 bulls that has nothing to do with anything.

You guys point to 55 wins in 1994 as if that means the Bulls had great talent without Jordan.

This is obviously false just by looking at the roster on paper, but you guys continue to point to 55 wins as if it means something other than the Bulls simply developing a great way to play while 3-peating..

So I bring up the 1989 lottery roster because it was the exact same roster as the 3-peat teams, thus proving that the Bulls weren't talented - they were a lottery roster that won 3 rings by developing know-how and teamwork, not stacked talent.

Btw, the first thing you learn in junior high hoops is "don't foul a jumpshooter!!!"... So the Bulls weren't screwed out of the 94 ECSF - Pippen simply committed one of the dumbest mistakes a ballplayer can make - fouling a 3-point shooter.. This choke was in addition to his 2 other chokes - (sitting out in Game 3 and shitting the bed in Game 7)..

So the Bulls lost the 94' Finals because Pippen choked on 3 separate occasions.. They were a simply 2nd Round team without MJ, and the goat team of the modern era with him.

SamuraiSWISH

08-24-2019, 08:46 PM

So did Dirk, worst MVP ever

Smoke117

08-24-2019, 08:50 PM

You guys point to 55 wins in 1994 as if that means the Bulls had great talent without Jordan.

lol When have I ever argued that? Grant and BJ were just role players regardless if they were picked as all stars. (BJ armstrong is a huge joke as an all star) They won 55 games because Scottie was a top 3-5 player in the league with a huge impact. He continued carrying the Bulls from the 93 series vs the Knicks into the 94 season.

3ball

08-24-2019, 09:29 PM

lol When have I ever argued that? Grant and BJ were just role players regardless if they were picked as all stars. (BJ armstrong is a huge joke as an all star) They won 55 games because Scottie was a top 3-5 player in the league with a huge impact. He continued carrying the Bulls from the 93 series vs the Knicks into the 94 season.
Pippen couldn't carry a garbage team to 50+ wins like MJ did in 88'

Pip needed a great team to win that much, like a 3-peat system... and since he was the only star on that roster, those bulls were a good team from that system/teamwork, not talent.. it's similar to the Spurs without Duncan - the Spurs aren't winning shit without Duncan unless they have that system.... :confusedshrug:... although the Spurs still had 2 remaining perennial all-stars after duncan, so more talent than the Bulls..

And the bulls won 57 games in 1993 - you can't convince me that they win 55 without MJ that year - the reality is that the Bulls upgraded every roster spot before the 94' season - Pippen isn't winning 55 with the depleted 93' roster (only 4 guys averaged over 6 ppg or 20 mpg on the 93' roster)..

So he wouldn't win 55 without mj from 88-93'... Only in 1994 could he do it with a 3-peat system in place and a chip on their shoulder from MJ's retirement.. the perfect storm - it happens.. still a 2nd round loser without mj, versus the goat team of the modern era with mj

StrongLurk

08-24-2019, 10:17 PM

Pippen couldn't carry a garbage team to 50+ wins like MJ did in 88'

Pip needed a great team to win that much, like a 3-peat system... and since he was the only star on that roster, those bulls were a good team from that system/teamwork, not talent.. it's similar to the Spurs without Duncan - the Spurs aren't winning shit without Duncan unless they have that system.... :confusedshrug:... although the Spurs still had 2 remaining perennial all-stars after duncan, so more talent than the Bulls..

And the bulls won 57 games in 1993 - you can't convince me that they win 55 without MJ that year - the reality is that the Bulls upgraded every roster spot before the 94' season - Pippen isn't winning 55 with the depleted 93' roster (only 4 guys averaged over 6 ppg or 20 mpg on the 93' roster)..

So he wouldn't win 55 without mj from 88-93'... Only in 1994 could he do it with a 3-peat system in place and a chip on their shoulder from MJ's retirement.. the perfect storm - it happens.. still a 2nd round loser without mj, versus the goat team of the modern era with mj

This dude is so pathetic. This poster isn't a Bulls fan or even a basketball fan.

Just a MJ lover...who is 42 years old...weird as hell.

bison

08-24-2019, 10:57 PM

Wild wild West confirmed.

And he STILL won 5 titles.

How many titles did LeRoid win playing in the weakest conferences we have ever seen?

3. And he had to stack the deck to get two of them hahahahahah

Smoke117

08-24-2019, 11:32 PM

This dude is so pathetic. This poster isn't a Bulls fan or even a basketball fan.

Just a MJ lover...who is 42 years old...weird as hell.

To be as obsessed as he is about an athlete is just disturbing.

PickernRoller

08-24-2019, 11:43 PM

3. And he had to stack the deck to get two of them hahahahahah

Then get league favors to get his 3rd.

Biggest joke ever.

rmt

08-25-2019, 12:27 AM

Duncan also lost in the first round as the defending champion. Scottie Pippen, meanwhile, lost the best player in the league and took the Knicks to a 7 games in a series in the second round where the Bulls got screwed over by a terrible call.

Surely you aren't blaming a 39 year old Duncan for the 6th seed Spurs losing to the 3rd seed Clippers in a 7 game series while averaging 17.9 pts 11.3 rebs 3.3 asst 1.3 stls 1.4 blks.

Smoke117

08-25-2019, 12:34 AM

Surely you aren't blaming a 39 year old Duncan for the 6th seed Spurs losing to the 3rd seed Clippers in a 7 game series while averaging 17.9 pts 11.3 rebs 3.3 asst 1.3 stls 1.4 blks.

It's called trolling, bruh. That's beside the point that I believe Tim Duncan is one of the most overrated players in NBA history, though. He's not even the greatest player on his own franchise. (David Robinson is)

rmt

08-25-2019, 12:48 AM

It's called trolling, bruh. That's beside the point that I believe Tim Duncan is one of the most overrated players in NBA history, though. He's not even the greatest player on his own franchise. (David Robinson is)

More like sista.

DRob doesn't sound like he agrees with you - "Timmy, my man ...ever prayed REALLY hard for something - that was my answer to prayer right there .. the best power forward to ever play the game" in his HOF speech.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90kdNUWYMlQ

Smoke117

08-25-2019, 12:55 AM

More like sista.

DRob doesn't sound like he agrees with you - "Timmy, my man ...ever prayed REALLY hard for something - that was my answer to prayer right there .. the best power forward to ever play the game" in his HOF speech.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90kdNUWYMlQ

Big Dave is humble. Duncan was never as dominant as he was 91-96. Duncan's best season is barely better than Robinson's rookie season in 90...if it is even better at all.

rmt

08-25-2019, 01:07 AM

Big Dave is humble. Duncan was never as dominant as he was 91-96. Duncan's best season is barely better than Robinson's rookie season in 90...if it is even better at all.

Very humble - great speeches by DRob, Stockton and Sloan - kinda made MJ's sound petty.

Basketball wasn't the end all, be all for DRob (as shown in his speech) - not nearly as single-minded when it came to bball as Duncan.

3ball

08-25-2019, 12:49 PM

This dude is so pathetic. This poster isn't a Bulls fan or even a basketball fan.

Just a MJ lover...who is 42 years old...weird as hell.
You claim the Spurs just "happened" to get hot against the Heat in 2014, yet somehow Duncan knew they would get hot and famously guaranteed victory before the series started

That proves it wasn't some random occurrence and the Spurs knew they'd figured the heat out.. So they won 3 straight games to close out the series, just like every other Finals opponent does once Lebron-ball is solved.

And Lebron-ball got shut down completely - the Heat's ppg and ortg was 12 and 7 pts below their regular season levels, respectively.. that's a shit ton

Ultimately, a worn down and discombobulated defense won't go off on offense - the Spurs didn't have this issue because lebron-ball was weak, while the Heat were indeed worn down defensively, and therefore sucked offensively

FKAri

08-25-2019, 01:04 PM

Duncan knew they would get hot and famously guaranteed victory before the series started

That proves it wasn't some random occurrence and the Spurs knew they'd figured the heat out..
:oldlol:

3ball

08-25-2019, 01:27 PM

:oldlol:
Everyone was shocked when Duncan said that.. it wasn't some typical prediction and it was said with goat confidence - no fanfare or emotion about it

You think Duncan's rare prediction and the Spurs getting hot like that is a coincidence?

Duncan wasn't predicting that the Heat would play bad defense - the Heat had a good reputation on D.. It was a prediction that the Spurs were going to take it to the Heat - they'd solved the Heat and knew they had the superior attack

The odds were basically even and the Heat were the defending champs that had beaten the Spurs the prior year - NOTHING heading into the series said "record blowout coming"... Which do you think was more surprising - Duncan's prediction or the blowout itself??

And1AllDay

08-25-2019, 08:39 PM

ouch,

Duncan is a clown

PickernRoller

08-25-2019, 08:39 PM

Rubbed his nuts on ya boi more times than I can count.

brooks_thompson

08-26-2019, 09:14 AM

Everyone was shocked when Duncan said that.. it wasn't some typical prediction and it was said with goat confidence - no fanfare or emotion about it

You think Duncan's rare prediction and the Spurs getting hot like that is a coincidence?

Duncan wasn't predicting that the Heat would play bad defense - the Heat had a good reputation on D.. It was a prediction that the Spurs were going to take it to the Heat - they'd solved the Heat and knew they had the superior attack

The odds were basically even and the Heat were the defending champs that had beaten the Spurs the prior year - NOTHING heading into the series said "record blowout coming"... Which do you think was more surprising - Duncan's prediction or the blowout itself??

I remember being shocked that Tim Duncan had just said that. That's why you save your guarantees until you're sure you can back them up. Makes it that much more impactful that that was his only guarantee in his career and they delivered in such a huge way. Those last 3 games were a joy to watch.

The narrative/excuse about the Heat being old and worn down didn't really start until game 3 of the Finals. To that point, only Battier had been focused on as fading fast.

FKAri

08-26-2019, 09:30 AM

Everyone was shocked when Duncan said that.. it wasn't some typical prediction and it was said with goat confidence - no fanfare or emotion about it

You think Duncan's rare prediction and the Spurs getting hot like that is a coincidence?

Duncan wasn't predicting that the Heat would play bad defense - the Heat had a good reputation on D.. It was a prediction that the Spurs were going to take it to the Heat - they'd solved the Heat and knew they had the superior attack

The odds were basically even and the Heat were the defending champs that had beaten the Spurs the prior year - NOTHING heading into the series said "record blowout coming"... Which do you think was more surprising - Duncan's prediction or the blowout itself??
:oldlol:
What's your profession? I've always been curious. You can keep it vague. I just want to know what you do aside from think about basketball all day.