Will we ever see another player average 41.00 ppg or more for an entire Finals

[3ball]

or was MJ doing it a one-off thing?

[bigkingsfan]

Two other players got 41, nothing special.

[SouBeachTalents]

Will we ever see another player do this in the Finals

https://pics.me.me/lebrew-james-finals-rank-total-points-ist-assists-cavalie-rebounds-15676656.png

[3ball]

Will we ever see another player do this in the Finals

https://pics.me.me/lebrew-james-finals-rank-total-points-ist-assists-cavalie-rebounds-15676656.png
Only 29 ppg.. only 2 more than 2nd option.. didn't close.. :sleeping

led the secondary categories by tiny margins.. :facepalm ... MJ led the most important category by goat margins... :pimp:

[StrongLurk]

Only 29 ppg.. only 2 more than 2nd option.. didn't close.. :sleeping

led the secondary categories by tiny margins.. :facepalm ... MJ led the most important category by goat margins... :pimp:

So your answer is no?

Got it.

[bullettooth]

Will we ever see another player lose 6 times in the finals?

[imdaman99]

Will we ever see such a bad defense play in the finals again????? Imagine if Lebron had Dan Majerle on him and a quick pick forces Barkley onto him :oldlol:

[RRR3]

Will we ever see such a bad defense play in the finals again????? Imagine if Lebron had Dan Majerle on him and a quick pick forces Barkley onto him :oldlol:
Jesus Christ :biggums:


LeBron would average 70.

[Manny98]

Will we ever see another player do this in the Finals

https://pics.me.me/lebrew-james-finals-rank-total-points-ist-assists-cavalie-rebounds-15676656.png
:bowdown: :bowdown:

[imdaman99]

Jesus Christ :biggums:

LeBron would average 70.
70???? :biggums: I was being serious :lol (ok somewhat serious) I could see Lebron averaging 42. Suns would start triple teaming him after Lebron averages 50 the first 3 games and then he averages 34 the last 3 games with 12 assists, assuming he has some shooters around him.

[bullettooth]

Jesus Christ :biggums:


LeBron would average 70.

LeBron gonna average 70 against Majerle but was held to 18ppg against JJ Barea?

Are you retarded?

[Vino24]

MJ had Pippen to lead in the other categories

[Mr Feeny]

MJ had Pippen to lead in the other categories

Unfortunately he didnt have Pippen to score 27 ppg in a finals series including the title winning shot.

[3ball]

Will we ever see such a bad defense play in the finals again????? Imagine if Lebron had Dan Majerle on him and a quick pick forces Barkley onto him :oldlol:
Pace was 85, which is slower than anything lebron ever played

Only mj and kobe averaged over 30 in an under-90 pace Finals.. So im pretty sure Lebron couldn't even average 30 in that series..

Btw, Lebron averaged 16 on 39% thru 3 games of the 13' Finals while being guarded largely by Boris Diaw, so Im sure Mark West could do the same, let alone Richard Dumas (https://media.giphy.com/media/26h0pswrpjgYgMvBe/giphy.gif), or all-nba defender Majerle

Overall in the 13' Finals, Lebron averaged only 25/10/7 on 53% ts, compared to Kawhi's 29/10/4 on 61% ts in the 19' Finals (kawhi had higher gamescore too).. Then there' the 07' and 11' Finals where Lebron was even worse - so lebron is easily stoppable - too many examples to choose from

[Mr Feeny]

Pace was 85, which is slower than anything lebron ever played

Only mj and kobe averaged over 30 in an under-90 pace Finals.. So im pretty sure Lebron couldn't even average 30 in that series..

Btw, Lebron averaged 16 on 39% thru 3 games of the 13' Finals while being guarded largely by Boris Diaw, so Im sure Mark West could do the same, let alone Richard Dumas (https://media.giphy.com/media/26h0pswrpjgYgMvBe/giphy.gif), or all-nba defender Majerle

Overall in the 13' Finals, Lebron averaged only 25/10/7 on 53% ts, compared to Kawhi's 29/10/4 on 61% ts in the 19' Finals (kawhi had higher gamescore too).. Then there' the 07' and 11' Finals where Lebron was even worse - so lebron is easily stoppable - too many examples to choose from

Kobe never averages 30+ against any finals defense with handchecking. Even when he did in 2009 and 2010 he did so on awful efficiency while being carried by Gasol.

[SouBeachTalents]

Pace was 85, which is slower than anything lebron ever played

Only mj and kobe averaged over 30 in an under-90 pace Finals.. So im pretty sure Lebron couldn't even average 30 in that series..

Btw, Lebron averaged 16 on 39% thru 3 games of the 13' Finals while being guarded largely by Boris Diaw, so Im sure Mark West could do the same, let alone Richard Dumas (https://media.giphy.com/media/26h0pswrpjgYgMvBe/giphy.gif), or all-nba defender Majerle

Overall in the 13' Finals, Lebron averaged only 25/10/7 on 53% ts, compared to Kawhi's 29/10/4 on 61% ts in the 19' Finals (kawhi had higher gamescore too).. Then there' the 07' and 11' Finals where Lebron was even worse - so lebron is easily stoppable - too many examples to choose from
Kawhi guarded LeBron the first 4 games of that series, Diaw didn't become LeBron's primary defender until Game 5, and in fact was a DNP in Game 3 :oldlol:

Just amazes me you continue to talk at length about subjects you know nothing about

[Overdrive]

Only mj and kobe averaged over 30 in an under-90 pace Finals.. So im pretty sure Lebron couldn't even average 30 in that series..



Just another time you leave out Shaq, because he's on Jordan's level as a finals performer.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2001-nba-finals-76ers-vs-lakers.html

[3ball]

Kawhi guarded LeBron the first 4 games of that series, Diaw didn't become LeBron's primary defender until Game 5, and in fact was a DNP in Game 3 :oldlol:

Just amazes me you continue to talk at length about subjects you know nothing about
They gave open jumpers to the guy you think is the greatest player of all time.....the best ever.....and he averaged 25 a game and shot like garbage... Let that sink in... Kawhi's play in the 19' Finals destroys his... b-b-but he's the goat tho

Bottom line is that lebron has plenty of series where he was shut down (including the 13' Finals), so the idea that the 93' Suns and a slower pace than Lebron ever played couldn't hold his stats down is ridiculous

[BigKobeFan]

Will we ever see another player do this in the Finals

https://pics.me.me/lebrew-james-finals-rank-total-points-ist-assists-cavalie-rebounds-15676656.png

sad how even with this god like stat, he is only 11th

[stalkerforlife]

They gave open jumpers to the guy you think is the greatest player of all time.....the best ever.....and he averaged 25 a game and shot like garbage... Let that sink in... Kawhi's play in the 19' Finals destroys his... b-b-but he's the goat tho

Bottom line is that lebron has plenty of series where he was shut down (including the 13' Finals), so the idea that the 93' Suns and a slower pace than Lebron ever played couldn't hold his stats down is ridiculous

Another one.

[sdot_thadon]

They gave open jumpers to the guy you think is the greatest player of all time.....the best ever....
https://i.postimg.cc/CLY906rz/jordantheshot.gif (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/JnpMJV2Y/jordanearly3.gif (https://postimages.org/)

:oldlol:


Kawhi's play in the 19' Finals destroys his... b-b-but he's the goat tho
:biggums:

[TheMan]

Will we ever see another player do this in the Finals

https://pics.me.me/lebrew-james-finals-rank-total-points-ist-assists-cavalie-rebounds-15676656.png
What Finals did he do this in?

Asking for a Bran stan :lol

[3ball]

https://i.postimg.cc/CLY906rz/jordantheshot.gif (https://postimages.org/)]


sdot: "lol, portland let mj shoot open jumpers, see:"

(proceeds to post a gif of cliff robinson practically bursting a blood vessel trying to contest MJ's shot)

And btw, mj broke the record when portland tested his jumper, while lebron averaged 16 on 39% for 3 games and was a net negative for the series






:oldlol:


MJ's threes in 92' were less open then today's threes, where 89% of threes are taken with 4+ feet from the closest defender (described as "open" or "wide open"), according to NBA.com's tracking stats (https://stats.nba.com/teams/shots-closest-defender/?Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&CloseDefDistRange=4-6%20Feet%20-%20Open).. Even Curry shoots 80% (https://stats.nba.com/player/201939/shots-dash/) of his threes with 4+ feet of room.. So MJ would get better looks from three today because offensive strategy is designed to drive and move the ball to get open threes

If you can't understand that today's era has more advanced strategy for getting open threes and are far better at it than previous eras, than i can't help you.. :facepalm





:biggums:


That's right - Kawhi was much better:

Kawhi'. 19' Finals - 29/10/4.. 60.6 ts.. 122 ORtg.. 23.9 gmsc.. +3.9
Lebron 19' Finals - 25/10/7.. 52.9 ts.. 106 ORtg.. 22.5 gmsc.. -0.2 (net negative)


capiche?

[Vino24]

MJ

[sdot_thadon]

sdot: "lol, portland let mj shoot open jumpers, see:"

(proceeds to post a gif of cliff robinson practically bursting a blood vessel trying to contest MJ's shot)
Do I really have to show you the other ones that aren't even contested? It shouldn't take more than one gif to refresh the memory of a supreme stan such as yourself.


And btw, mj broke the record when portland tested his jumper, while lebron averaged 16 on 39% for 3 games and was a net negative for the series
why not remind us how the last 4 games went, or more specifically just remind me how that last game 7 went. One of the best elimination game performances ever in the finals.


So MJ would get better looks from three today because offensive strategy is designed to drive and move the ball to get open threes

If you can't understand that today's era has more advanced strategy for getting open threes and are far better at it than previous eras, than i can't help you.. :facepalm
Or instead of needing all this modern advanced strategy, he could just suck at 3's like he's known to and he'll get all the open 3's he can stomach ala Giannis :lol



That's right - Kawhi was much better:

Kawhi'. 19' Finals - 29/10/4.. 60.6 ts.. 122 ORtg.. 23.9 gmsc.. +3.9
Lebron 19' Finals - 25/10/7.. 52.9 ts.. 106 ORtg.. 22.5 gmsc.. -0.2 (net negative)


capiche?
I don't know which is the most despicable thing about this qoute:

-The comparison of this finals to Kawhi's when he's got like 3 or 4 finals better than this one.

- The fact you posted inaccurate stats, I mean how many times can you post wrong stats dude?

- Questionable rounding skills.

Trash.:coleman:

[SpaceJam]

Doesn't happen if Pippen doesn't go off for 29 on 83% to bail out MJ's 16% (3/18) performance in Game 3 of the ECF

Such an important game, Bulls went into it down 0-2 had big dick Pippen not stepped up they'd go down 0-3 and most likely lose the series, and Bulls never get that 1st 3peat

[3ball]

why not remind us how the last 4 games went, or more specifically just remind me how that last game 7 went. One of the best elimination game performances ever in the finals.


You're praising lebron for a 7th game, when he could've swept them if he wasn't playing like aids... Imagine if 13' lebron doesn't average 16 on 39% for the first 3 games and instead plays like 92' MJ did, by coming out confident, guns blazing, setting records and legendary moments - the Spurs would lose in 4 obviously... :confusedshrug:.

And lebron was 23 on 43% thru 6 games of the 13' Finals - that wasn't sufficient, so he needed Ray Allen to force game 7 - MJ never averaged 23 on 43% thru 6 Finals games, so he never needed a 7th..





Or instead of needing all this modern advanced strategy, he could just suck at 3's like he's known to and he'll get all the open 3's he can stomach ala Giannis :lol


No, he wouldn't be Giannis because Giannis has a horrible jumper, while MJ had one of the best ever and is a knock-down shooter..

MJ showed this with his goat midrange jumper, and also in the 92' and 93' Finals with threes (43% on 4.3 attempts), which is better than what Kawhi needed to beat Giannis in the ECF (34% on 5 attempts)






- The fact you posted inaccurate stats, I mean how many times can you post wrong stats dude?



The stats are accurate and 19' Kawhi had a much better Finals than 13' Lebron:


Kawhi'. 19' Finals - 29/10/4.. 60.6 ts.. 122 ORtg.. 23.9 gmsc.. +3.9
Lebron 19' Finals - 25/10/7.. 52.9 ts.. 113 ORtg.. 22.5 gmsc.. -0.2 (net negative)





-The comparison of this finals to Kawhi's when [COLOR="DarkRed"]he's got 3 or 4 better than this one/COLOR]


Lebron had other Finals that were better than his 13' Finals, but that isn't the point i was making.. I was just putting lebron's 13' Finals in perspective (much worse than 19' Kawhi's)






Do I really have to show you the other ones that aren't even contested? It shouldn't take more than one gif to refresh the memory of a supreme stan such as yourself.


Some of the other threes were contested, and again, his looks would be more open today like everyone else's are

[ILLsmak]

What Finals did he do this in?

Asking for a Bran stan :lol

I kinda agree that this was blown out of proportion tho.

30-11-9-2.5(ish)-2.5(ish) is a really amazing stat line. I don't see how it matters that he lead everyone with it.

It's not like he was actively competing with people, or that any of those stats were historically high averages. It's just the full stat line.

But that was an amazing series, despite the weird things happening. Def made it so nobody can say Bron isn't top 10. Also made it so even tho Bron still comes off as 'kind of a choker', people can always bring that up and be like naw.

-Smak

[Mr Feeny]

I kinda agree that this was blown out of proportion tho.

30-11-9-2.5(ish)-2.5(ish) is a really amazing stat line. I don't see how it matters that he lead everyone with it.

It's not like he was actively competing with people, or that any of those stats were historically high averages. It's just the full stat line.

But that was an amazing series, despite the weird things happening. Def made it so nobody can say Bron isn't top 10. Also made it so even tho Bron still comes off as 'kind of a choker', people can always bring that up and be like naw.

-Smak

It was his best finals but interestingly enough he went 0-4in the last 6 minutes and really struggled, but he showed that you can be valuable in other ways e.g. his blocks on Iggy.

[aj1987]

Pace was 85, which is slower than anything lebron ever played

Only mj and kobe averaged over 30 in an under-90 pace Finals.. So im pretty sure Lebron couldn't even average 30 in that series..

Btw, Lebron averaged 16 on 39% thru 3 games of the 13' Finals while being guarded largely by Boris Diaw, so Im sure Mark West could do the same, let alone Richard Dumas (https://media.giphy.com/media/26h0pswrpjgYgMvBe/giphy.gif), or all-nba defender Majerle

Overall in the 13' Finals, Lebron averaged only 25/10/7 on 53% ts, compared to Kawhi's 29/10/4 on 61% ts in the 19' Finals (kawhi had higher gamescore too).. Then there' the 07' and 11' Finals where Lebron was even worse - so lebron is easily stoppable - too many examples to choose from
You are such a massive ******. :roll: :roll:

Diaw played a total of 20 minutes in the first 3 games. LeBron played more minutes in the first half of G1 alone. Not to mention the fact that Diaw didn't even play G3. Played 11 minutes in G4. In games 5 and 6, Diaw averaged 25 MPG. LeBron averaged 46 minutes in those games. Nearly twice as many minutes as Diaw.

Go play in traffic, you autistic turd.

[sdot_thadon]

You're praising lebron for a 7th game, when he could've swept them if he wasn't playing like aids... Imagine if 13' lebron doesn't average 16 on 39% for the first 3 games and instead plays like 92' MJ did, by coming out confident, guns blazing, setting records and legendary moments - the Spurs would lose in 4 obviously... :confusedshrug:.

And lebron was 23 on 43% thru 6 games of the 13' Finals - that wasn't sufficient, so he needed Ray Allen to force game 7 - MJ never averaged 23 on 43% thru 6 Finals games, so he never needed a 7th..
2013 is like one of the dumbest series you could use to try and discredit Lebron. His game 6 and 7 of that series was unlike anything Mj ever went through. It was literally coming through with one foot in the grave on the biggest stage possible. He'd prove 3 years later that he was perhaps the greatest do or die player to ever live. That's one of his goat attributes and something Mj can't really claim.


The stats are accurate and 19' Kawhi had a much better Finals than 13' Lebron:

Kawhi'. 19' Finals - 29/10/4.. 60.6 ts.. 122 ORtg.. 23.9 gmsc.. +3.9
Lebron 19' Finals - 25/10/7.. 52.9 ts.. 113 ORtg.. 22.5 gmsc.. -0.2 (net negative
yet for some reason now you're posting edited numbers from the original post, why is that?

and that's still not even touching your shitty selective rounding. You round up Kawhi's numbers and not Lebron's, classic 3bum.



Some of the other threes were contested, and again, his looks would be more open today like everyone else's are

No, he wouldn't be Giannis because Giannis has a horrible jumper, while MJ had one of the best ever and is a knock-down shooter..
MJ showed this with his goat midrange jumper, and also in the 92' and 93' Finals with threes (43% on 4.3 attempts), which is better than what Kawhi needed to beat Giannis in the ECF (34% on 5 attempts)
Listen to what Mj thought of his own 3 point shooting at that time.
[QUOTE=A surprised Mj]

[3ball]

2013 is like one of the dumbest series you could use to try and discredit Lebron.


It's dumb to discredit 16 on 39% thru 3 games?

It's dumb to discredit 23 on 43% thru 6 games and needing a teammate to avoid loss??

That's not dumb - that's standard.

Game 7 was great, but overall, there's no way Lebron was anywhere near 19' Kawhi or any of MJ's Finals.. It's easily Lebron's worst Finals win, and his 3rd to 4th worst Finals overall.





His game 6 and 7 of that series was unlike anything Mj ever went through. It was literally coming through with one foot in the grave on the biggest stage possible.


You want MJ to average 16 on 39% for 3 games so he can get down in the series and get extra credit when he comes back?... gtfo - you're obviously looking at this the wrong way.

It's funny because I was going to start listing the times MJ carried the Bulls in a do-or-die game and it's too time-consuming - there's too many to list for the consensus goat clutch player.





He'd prove 3 years later that he was perhaps the greatest do or die player to ever live. That's one of his goat attributes and something Mj can't really claim.


MJ's elimination game stats are basically equal to Lebron's and they're much better when you remove the tomato can opposition that took Lebron to elimination games..

Furthermore, how can Lebron be do-or-die when he missed the do-or-die shot in 2013 and needed a teammate to avoid loss?... Heck, in 2 of his Finals, a teammate made the legendary, do-or-die shot.

Otoh, MJ is the goat clutch player.. everyone chooses MJ with all the marbles on the line - there's about 1000 youtube clips of players/coaches saying they would take MJ over anyone if there was only 1 game to play, or 1 shot to take.... :confusedshrug:





yet for some reason now you're posting edited numbers from the original post, why is that?


I only edited Lebron's ortg from 106 to 113 - a lone typo that you pounced on because you can't refute the actual points being made (that Lebron is a bum compared to MJ and the various reasons why)





and that's still not even touching your shitty selective rounding. You round up Kawhi's numbers and not Lebron's, classic 3bum.



Kawhi's 28.5 rounds up to 29, while Lebron's 25.3 rounds down to 25 - it's 6th grade math:


Kawhi.. 19' Finals - 29/10/4.. 60.6 ts.. 122 ORtg.. 23.9 gmsc.. +3.9
Lebron' 19' Finals - 25/10/7.. 52.9 ts.. 113 ORtg.. 22.5 gmsc.. -0.2 (net negative)


2013 was Lebron's worst Finals win and the 3rd or 4th worst Finals or his career, so no surprise that Kawhi's was much better.





Listen to what Mj thought of his own 3 point shooting at that time.

He also felt like he couldn't be the same player if he shot 3's, so what would change that mentality?


He already shot at today's standard while winning the 92' and 93' championships, so he was good enough already even with the mentality you mentioned.

So it's a moot point.. He was a great shooter and one of the best of all time.. This is common knowledge, which is why everyone says 3-point shooting wasn't an issue for MJ and he had zero weaknesses.

But the thing that would change his mentality is that the league changed the rules and made penetration automatic, which drove the growth of drive-and-kick offense and open 3-pointers.. Easier penetration and more 3-point shooting allowed the efficiency of drive-and-kick to quickly overtake post offense and become the new standard offensive approach.. MJ would've been part of that shift like everyone else, and his adjustment would've been easier since he was already shooting 3's at today's standard while winning the 92' and 93' championships.

[SouBeachTalents]

2013 is a great example of why rings are, if not overrated, then at least misleading. That wouldn't even crack his top 5 playoff runs, I'd easily take '09, '12 & '16-'18 over that

[Phoenix]

The way 2013 finals ended has washed over that Lebron wasn't very good to start that series. If he played the first half of that series like he did the last few games, a comeback of that magnitude wouldn't have been necessary. It was actually bad enough that some in the media were wondering if he was in the midst of pulling another '2011'.

[3ball]

2013 is a great example of why rings are, if not overrated, then at least misleading.


No, winning basketball is important

Who cares how great your stats are while playing losing basketball

i.e. everyone said Iverson played losing basketball - just because Lebron's stats are better than Iverson's, doesn't mean he isn't still playing losing basketball at the championship level (and he obviously is)





That wouldn't even crack his top 5 playoff runs


Bro, Lebron sucks compared to MJ - I was just looking at the stats for the 13' ECF, and Bosh averaged 11 ppg and the Heat needed 7 games to win...

Like, gtfo - Bosh would average a lot more alongside MJ and they'd beat the Pacers much easier.. Period.. if you can't see that, than you aren't considering how differently MJ and Lebron play, or aren't seeing the difference (the very obvious difference)

And Wade only averaged 15 ppg that series... :facepalm ... there was a prominent article on SB Nation that described how Wade and Lebron are both ball-dominators and therefore need shooters around them.. But neither Lebron or Wade are shooters, so they don't compliment each other..

Again, we're talking about SKILL DEFICITS that Lebron has (catch-and-shoot, off-ball game) that prevent him from playing well with various players and occasionally depresses their stats like we saw in the 13' ECF with Wade and Bosh.. Lebron is nowhere near MJ and that's why he's 3/9 in 17 years versus 6/6 in 15.





I'd easily take '09, '12 & '16-'18 over 2013


By that token, MJ's 1986 playoff run is goat - 44/6/6 on 50%.. nothing tops that, or the comp it was against..

So you can't give props for stats that occur in a blowout loss (86' and 87' MJ... 14' Lebron, 17' Lebron, 18' Lebron)... or a loss as a big favorite (Lebron 09-11').

[RRR3]

No, winning basketball is important

Who cares how great your stats are while playing losing basketball

i.e. everyone said Iverson played losing basketball - just because Lebron's stats are better than Iverson's, doesn't mean he isn't still playing losing basketball at the championship level (and he obviously is)



Bro, Lebron sucks compared to MJ - I was just looking at the stats for the 13' ECF, and Bosh averaged 11 ppg and the Heat needed 7 games to win...

Like, gtfo - Bosh would average a lot more alongside MJ and they'd beat the Pacers much easier.. Period.. if you can't see that, than you aren't considering how differently MJ and Lebron play, or aren't seeing the difference (the very obvious difference)

And Wade only averaged 15 ppg that series... :facepalm ... there was a prominent article on SB Nation that described how Wade and Lebron are both ball-dominators and therefore need shooters around them.. But neither Lebron or Wade are shooters, so they don't compliment each other..

Again, we're talking about SKILL DEFICITS that Lebron has (catch-and-shoot, off-ball game) that prevent him from playing well with various players and occasionally depresses their stats like we saw in the 13' ECF with Wade and Bosh.. Lebron is nowhere near MJ and that's why he's 3/9 in 17 years versus 6/6 in 15.



By that token, MJ's 1986 playoff run is goat - 44/6/6 on 50%.. nothing tops that, or the comp it was against..

So you can't give props for stats that occur in a blowout loss (86' and 87' MJ... 14' Lebron, 17' Lebron, 18' Lebron)... or a loss as a big favorite (Lebron 09-11').
MELTDOWN

[SouBeachTalents]

No, winning basketball is important

Who cares how great your stats are while playing losing basketball

i.e. everyone said Iverson played losing basketball - just because Lebron's stats are better than Iverson's, doesn't mean he isn't still playing losing basketball at the championship level (and he obviously is)
This seriously is the dumbest mentality sports fans have. It's like they literally can't comprehend that a player can play well, even great, and his team can still lose.

Jordan in 1990 was obviously better than he was during the entire 2nd 3peat, you gonna dispute that because he didn't win a title?

It'd seriously be like arguing Brady was better against the Rams than he was against the Eagles last year just because the Pats won the Super Bowl

Bro, Lebron sucks compared to MJ - I was just looking at the stats for the 13' ECF, and Bosh averaged 11 ppg and the Heat needed 7 games to win...

Like, gtfo - Bosh would average a lot more alongside MJ and they'd beat the Pacers much easier.. Period.. if you can't see that, than you aren't considering how differently MJ and Lebron play, or aren't seeing the difference (the very obvious difference)

And Wade only averaged 15 ppg that series... :facepalm ... there was a prominent article on SB Nation that described how Wade and Lebron are both ball-dominators and therefore need shooters around them.. But neither Lebron or Wade are shooters, so they don't compliment each other..

Again, we're talking about SKILL DEFICITS that Lebron has (catch-and-shoot, off-ball game) that prevent him from playing well with various players and occasionally depresses their stats like we saw in the 13' ECF with Wade and Bosh.. Lebron is nowhere near MJ and that's why he's 3/9 in 17 years versus 6/6 in 15.
Bosh was total trash against Indy, 11 & 4 on shit efficiency while getting dominated by Roy Hibbert. I don't dispute he could be more effective with Jordan, but he's not turning around a completely shitty performance.

Also Wade was clearly injured in 2013 and struggled immensely until the end of the Finals. I don't at all dispute LeBron & Wade were never an ideal fit, but you think Jordan & Wade would be any better :oldlol:

I also like how whenever Wade or Bosh had a bad performance, it had nothing to do with matchups, injury or how they played in all facets of the game; it was always LeBron's fault when they didn't play well. But when it came to Pippen or Rodman having a bad game, Jordan was never to blame

By that token, MJ's 1986 playoff run is goat - 44/6/6 on 50%.. nothing tops that, or the comp it was against..

So you can't give props for stats that occur in a blowout loss (86' and 87' MJ... 14' Lebron, 17' Lebron, 18' Lebron)... or a loss as a big favorite (Lebron 09-11').
Lol, comparing 3 game sample sizes to an entire playoff run. Not even you can pretend to be this stupid

[3ball]

MELTDOWN
it was a pretty good post wasn't it... :pimp: :cheers:

[StrongLurk]

Honestly thought we definitely will see another player scorer this much in a finals. Who knows if it will be on better or worse efficiency though.

I can guarantee that whoever does it will be making a lot of threes and free throws.

[3ball]

This seriously is the dumbest mentality sports fans have. It's like they literally can't comprehend that a player can play well, even great, and his team can still lose.


^^^^ that's when the team has a talent deficit and is the underdog (MJ in 1990)..

But not when they're the favorite and the talent is equal or better (Lebron in 2009 or 2013).

Btw, if winning wasn't an objective and he was just trying to score as much as possible, do you think MJ would average only 32 points against the Pistons in 1990?.. Obviously not - he could've averaged 40 or maybe 50, while Pippen and others averaged 1 ppg... But obviously, they would've lost in 4 games instead of 7..

That's why putting up big stats WHILE WINNING is the true skill in basketball and no one put up bigger stats while winning than MJ (or while losing).





Jordan in 1990 was obviously better than he was during the entire 2nd 3peat, you gonna dispute that because he didn't win a title?


No, because he was a clear-cut underdog in 1990

Whereas Lebron was the favorite to win the title from from 2009-2011, but lost.. So he gets knocked for it.. And he was a favorite in 2013 but barely won and didn't play that great (carried).





Bosh was total trash against Indy, 11 & 4 on shit efficiency while getting dominated by Roy Hibbert. I don't dispute he could be more effective with Jordan, but he's not turning around a completely shitty performance.


You acknowledge that Lebron-ball hurts Bosh, but then blame Bosh for the poor performance anyway?... :biggums:

He had a shitty performance because Lebron's skillset shuts him down and always has.. 15 ppg and 8 rebounds would be a shitty performance for Bosh too.. Lebron-ball is a cancer





Also Wade was clearly injured in 2013 and struggled immensely until the end of the Finals. I don't at all dispute LeBron & Wade were never an ideal fit, but you think Jordan & Wade would be any better :oldlol:


Jordan was a great catch-and-shoot player and off-ball player, so he would fit perfectly with Wade

Are you playing dumb or don't realize that Jordan wasn't a ball-dominator like Lebron?.. Do I need to explain the difference between ball-dominance and off-ball and go back to basketball 101?





I also like how whenever Wade or Bosh had a bad performance, it had nothing to do with matchups, injury or how they played in all facets of the game; it was always LeBron's fault when they didn't play well . But when it came to Pippen or Rodman having a bad game, Jordan was never to blame


The Bulls always won with MJ/Pip/Rodman, while Lebron loses a lot with 2 star teammates

Overall, it's common knowledge that Pippen grew and thrived alongside MJ, while Wade/Bosh/Love were marginalized with Lebron, and Kyrie hated him and left.





Lol, comparing 3 game sample sizes to an entire playoff run. Not even you can pretend to be this stupid


MJ has the goat losing stats for single series - 44/6/6 on 50%

MJ has the goat losing stats for a playoff run - 37/7/7 in 1990 PO

[Real14]

Will we ever see another player do this in the Finals

https://pics.me.me/lebrew-james-finals-rank-total-points-ist-assists-cavalie-rebounds-15676656.png
3 asterisks out of 9:roll:

[Manny98]

3 asterisks out of 9:roll:
1973 last Knicks championship :roll:

[Real14]

1973 last Knicks championship :roll:
Nets last championship-....

[stalkerforlife]

It's dumb to discredit 16 on 39% thru 3 games?

It's dumb to discredit 23 on 43% thru 6 games and needing a teammate to avoid loss??

That's not dumb - that's standard.

Game 7 was great, but overall, there's no way Lebron was anywhere near 19' Kawhi or any of MJ's Finals.. It's easily Lebron's worst Finals win, and his 3rd to 4th worst Finals overall.



You want MJ to average 16 on 39% for 3 games so he can get down in the series and get extra credit when he comes back?... gtfo - you're obviously looking at this the wrong way.

It's funny because I was going to start listing the times MJ carried the Bulls in a do-or-die game and it's too time-consuming - there's too many to list for the consensus goat clutch player.



MJ's elimination game stats are basically equal to Lebron's and they're much better when you remove the tomato can opposition that took Lebron to elimination games..

Furthermore, how can Lebron be do-or-die when he missed the do-or-die shot in 2013 and needed a teammate to avoid loss?... Heck, in 2 of his Finals, a teammate made the legendary, do-or-die shot.

Otoh, MJ is the goat clutch player.. everyone chooses MJ with all the marbles on the line - there's about 1000 youtube clips of players/coaches saying they would take MJ over anyone if there was only 1 game to play, or 1 shot to take.... :confusedshrug:



I only edited Lebron's ortg from 106 to 113 - a lone typo that you pounced on because you can't refute the actual points being made (that Lebron is a bum compared to MJ and the various reasons why)




Kawhi's 28.5 rounds up to 29, while Lebron's 25.3 rounds down to 25 - it's 6th grade math:


Kawhi.. 19' Finals - 29/10/4.. 60.6 ts.. 122 ORtg.. 23.9 gmsc.. +3.9
Lebron' 19' Finals - 25/10/7.. 52.9 ts.. 113 ORtg.. 22.5 gmsc.. -0.2 (net negative)


2013 was Lebron's worst Finals win and the 3rd or 4th worst Finals or his career, so no surprise that Kawhi's was much better.



He already shot at today's standard while winning the 92' and 93' championships, so he was good enough already even with the mentality you mentioned.

So it's a moot point.. He was a great shooter and one of the best of all time.. This is common knowledge, which is why everyone says 3-point shooting wasn't an issue for MJ and he had zero weaknesses.

But the thing that would change his mentality is that the league changed the rules and made penetration automatic, which drove the growth of drive-and-kick offense and open 3-pointers.. Easier penetration and more 3-point shooting allowed the efficiency of drive-and-kick to quickly overtake post offense and become the new standard offensive approach.. MJ would've been part of that shift like everyone else, and his adjustment would've been easier since he was already shooting 3's at today's standard while winning the 92' and 93' championships.

Ether.

[stalkerforlife]

^^^^ that's when the team has a talent deficit and is the underdog (MJ in 1990)..

But not when they're the favorite and the talent is equal or better (Lebron in 2009 or 2013).

Btw, if winning wasn't an objective and he was just trying to score as much as possible, do you think MJ would average only 32 points against the Pistons in 1990?.. Obviously not - he could've averaged 40 or maybe 50, while Pippen and others averaged 1 ppg... But obviously, they would've lost in 4 games instead of 7..

That's why putting up big stats WHILE WINNING is the true skill in basketball and no one put up bigger stats while winning than MJ (or while losing).



No, because he was a clear-cut underdog in 1990

Whereas Lebron was the favorite to win the title from from 2009-2011, but lost.. So he gets knocked for it.. And he was a favorite in 2013 but barely won and didn't play that great (carried).



You acknowledge that Lebron-ball hurts Bosh, but then blame Bosh for the poor performance anyway?... :biggums:

He had a shitty performance because Lebron's skillset shuts him down and always has.. 15 ppg and 8 rebounds would be a shitty performance for Bosh too.. Lebron-ball is a cancer



Jordan was a great catch-and-shoot player and off-ball player, so he would fit perfectly with Wade

Are you playing dumb or don't realize that Jordan wasn't a ball-dominator like Lebron?.. Do I need to explain the difference between ball-dominance and off-ball and go back to basketball 101?



The Bulls always won with MJ/Pip/Rodman, while Lebron loses a lot with 2 star teammates

Overall, it's common knowledge that Pippen grew and thrived alongside MJ, while Wade/Bosh/Love were marginalized with Lebron, and Kyrie hated him and left.



MJ has the goat losing stats for single series - 44/6/6 on 50%

MJ has the goat losing stats for a playoff run - 37/7/7 in 1990 PO

Stop.

Too much ether.

[Vino24]

41pts impressive. Kobe scores 81pts. Almost two of MJ