GOAT Off-Ball Scorers List

[StrongLurk]

Let's stick with post 1980 players, and list does NOT need to be in order. This list will also trend toward perimeter players since bigs are traditionally "off-ball"

I've got: Curry, Reggie Miller, Ray Allen, Klay Thompson, Bird off the top of my head. Maybe even a guy like Rip Hamilton or JJ Redick as honorable mentions?

[Marchesk]

Jordan

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

If we're talking about impact, Curry might be the GOAT off-ball.

Him or Jordan. Ditto with Bird.

Mid/Late 90s Glen Rice was very good too.

[Manny98]

Shawn Marion - he was GOAT at cutting to the basket

[StrongLurk]

If we're talking about impact, Curry might be the GOAT off-ball.

Him or Jordan. Ditto with Bird.

Mid/Late 90s Glen Rice was very good too.

Ah yes, one of my favorite Hornets players ever. Good one.

[Kblaze8855]

Know someone who never comes up as an off ball scorer because all his highlights are ISO

[ralph_i_el]

Yes to AI

Also, getting an open drive from off-ball movement and a quick dribble counts as "off-ball" scoring IMO.

[superduper]

It's the obvious answer but Curry is GOAT or top 3 in this regard.

[LostCause]

Jordan
Curry
Reggie

[sdot_thadon]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Karl Malone yet.

[Dr Hawk]

Top 3 are Curry, Jordan and Bird.

[MrFonzworth]

Who's the best off ball dribblers? What about off ball passers?

[90sgoat]

Considering Reggie Miller basically didn't play on ball at all and still managed to get 20-25ppg in the slow pace 90s, I'm going to go with him.

[insidehoops]

This thread is a good reminder to remember which players create their own shots and who use away-from-ball movement to create opportunities to be passed to at the right time

[3ball]

:rolleyes:

[3ball]

Why can't people understand that if Lebron doesn't fit with a certain player, that's HIS fault for not having the game to fit with them?.. It's a knock that he's only elite with a live dribble (ball-dominance), and therefore only fits well with spot-up shooters.

Of course, people will say "who else would you rather have the ball?"

The answer is "anyone" because players actually control the game more by FINISHING many possessions, thereby personally controlling the result, aka being the judge, jury, and executioner of the possession...

Look at MJ - he got up more shot attempts and controlled games more by finishing as many possessions as possible - this method controlled games more than being the dribbler all the time... similarly, when Curry is at his best, he controls the game by FINISHING many possessions

In addition to controlling the game more, finishing possessions lets teammates pass you the ball, which helps their playmaking - Wade or Kyrie can play to their strength as ball-handlers, or Bosh/Love can be real threats before letting lebron "close" the possession

Ultimately, this skill deficit (Lebron's lack of play-finishing off-ball) puts a ceiling on his teams, since only shooters excel alongside his dribbling, while also limiting Lebron's ability to control possessions/games

Being able to control games by handling the rock AND selectively finishing possessions when needed (and it might be needed a lot) controls games better than only being the dribbler - it controls games better while also allowing a superior brand where everyone gets to move the ball, rather than 1 guy dribbling.. this skill gap (dribbling vs a mix of dribbling and finishing) is the difference between 3/9 and 6/6

For example, Pippen is a non-shooting ball-handler - the worst fit for Lebron's dribble skillset - so lebron would have zero rings with pip and it's unlikely pip develops into a HOF.
.

[3ball]

^^^ whoops wrong thread... :facepalm


Guys like Klay and Reggie Miller are lower volume, one-dimensional players off-ball

Only MJ and Bird finished possessions with sufficient volume and diversity to control games

MJ actually got up more shot attempts and controlled games more by finishing as many possessions as possible (being the judge, jury and executioner of a possession) - this method controlled games more than being the dribbler all the time and often deferring

[bigkingsfan]

Scottie Pippen

[Bronbron23]

Let's stick with post 1980 players, and list does NOT need to be in order. This list will also trend toward perimeter players since bigs are traditionally "off-ball"

I've got: Curry, Reggie Miller, Ray Allen, Klay Thompson, Bird off the top of my head. Maybe even a guy like Rip Hamilton or JJ Redick as honorable mentions?
Curry may very well be the goat but you should have mj on that list. He was an elite off ball mover also. It's an underrated part of his game because he was such a great iso scorer

[3ball]

Curry may very well be the goat but you should have mj on that list. He was an elite off ball mover also. It's an underrated part of his game because he was such a great iso scorer

Catch-and-go's are off-ball too - not just catch-and-shoot

Quick moves upon the catch (quick isos) are "off-ball" as well:


https://i.makeagif.com/media/9-22-2015/LaRhrm.gif


https://i.makeagif.com/media/9-21-2015/s9dxI7.gif


Part of MJ being the goat iso player was his ability to isolate QUICKLY, from anywhere, and after moving off-ball

[Manny98]

MJ is great off ball, better than LeBron and anyone in the top 10 but he's not even in the same tier as Curry,Miller and Klay just stop it :facepalm

[LAmbruh]

Camping in the high post and barking at Harper/Kerr to feed you isn't impressive off ball game


He had to do this bc he wasn't good enough to break down players 1v1 with ball handling and get to his spots himself

[SouBeachTalents]

^^^ whoops wrong thread... :facepalm


Guys like Klay and Reggie Miller are lower volume, one-dimensional players off-ball

Only MJ and Bird finished possessions with sufficient volume and diversity to control games

MJ actually got up more shot attempts and controlled games more by finishing as many possessions as possible (being the judge, jury and executioner of a possession) - this method controlled games more than being the dribbler all the time and often deferring
:roll: No it wasn't fakkit

[3ball]

MJ is great off ball, better than LeBron and anyone in the top 10 but he's not even in the same tier as Curry,Miller and Klay just stop it :facepalm



.
^^^^ they just stand there and shoot it, which MJ did a lot of too


But who has it off-ball like this?


https://i.makeagif.com/media/9-13-2015/LJ8raP.gif



Who can run off-ball and then quick-iso-poster an all-star 7-footer on the block


https://i.makeagif.com/media/9-11-2015/454Vvd.gif



And what is this?.. off-ball?... An iso???.. Both obviously


https://i.makeagif.com/media/7-02-2015/9VPzJD.gif


So STFU you have no idea what ur talking about

[Turbo Slayer]

.
^^^^ they just stand there and shoot it, which MJ did a lot of too


But who has it off-ball like this?


https://i.makeagif.com/media/9-13-2015/LJ8raP.gif



Who can run off-ball and then quick-iso-poster an all-star 7-footer on the block


https://i.makeagif.com/media/9-11-2015/454Vvd.gif



And what is this?.. off-ball?... An iso???.. Both obviously


https://i.makeagif.com/media/7-02-2015/9VPzJD.gif


So STFU you have no idea what ur talking about Youre Molly from First Take. Whiny as hell. Looking feminime as hell.

[ILLsmak]

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]Know someone who never comes up as an off ball scorer because all his highlights are ISO

[Manny98]

.
^^^^ they just stand there and shoot it, which MJ did a lot of too


But who has it off-ball like this?


https://i.makeagif.com/media/9-13-2015/LJ8raP.gif



Who can run off-ball and then quick-iso-poster an all-star 7-footer on the block


https://i.makeagif.com/media/9-11-2015/454Vvd.gif



And what is this?.. off-ball?... An iso???.. Both obviously


https://i.makeagif.com/media/7-02-2015/9VPzJD.gif


So STFU you have no idea what ur talking about
That's not even off ball retard I literally see.zero off ball movement in those gifs he's catching the ball and proceeding to take multiple dribbles just to score

[3ball]

That's not even off ball retard I literally see.zero off ball movement in those gifs he's catching the ball and proceeding to take multiple dribbles just to score

He literally used 2 dribbles total on those 3 previous gifs..

But that irrelevant anyway - dribbles and off-ball movement don't matter as long as the player is off-the-ball and makes a quick move on the catch..

again, off-ball movement isn't necessary (many threes are taken after waiting for kickouuts), although obviously, MJ is moving a lot off-ball anyway so it's moot




That's not even off ball retard I literally see.zero off ball movement in those gifs he's catching the ball and proceeding to take multiple dribbles just to score


here's gifs that include the off-ball movement:


https://i.makeagif.com/media/5-18-2019/KDrt5G.gif

https://i.makeagif.com/media/9-28-2015/ew2ZUl.gif

https://i.makeagif.com/media/1-18-2016/i1-Rpb.gif

https://i.makeagif.com/media/4-23-2019/iH12xP.gif

[Bronbron23]

Camping in the high post and barking at Harper/Kerr to feed you isn't impressive off ball game


He had to do this bc he wasn't good enough to break down players 1v1 with ball handling and get to his spots himself
Both statements couldn't be more off. Your either trolling or didn't watch mj play dude.

[Bronbron23]

MJ is great off ball, better than LeBron and anyone in the top 10 but he's not even in the same tier as Curry,Miller and Klay just stop it :facepalm
No he's not but he didn't need to be either.all of those guys need screens and off ball movement to score the way they did or do or in Curry's case to be as efficient as he is.

[3ball]

That's not even off ball retard I literally see.zero off ball movement in those gifs he's catching the ball and proceeding to take multiple dribbles just to score
It's off-ball because it's off-the-ball

and of course MJ is doing it off movement too, but it wouldn't matter, as long as he's off-the-ball.... Heck, most threes occur after the player stood and waited on a kickout (no movement)

That's why Klay, Curry, and Reggie are nowhere near MJ as off-ball players - they can't do any of the gifs I posted, which include a wide variety of off-ball play, not just catch-and-shoot

You're a fool for arguing about someone you obviously never saw play... You sound like you literally have never saw him play