If Bulls and their players didn't exist in 90s

[Akeem34TheDream]

Who would have won the most titles in those 6 years?

[FKAri]

Jazz

Knicks, maybe but they weren't a complete enough team imo to win more than the Jazz. Plus they lost even when MJ wasn't around.

Magic out of all the teams here have the highest chance to win at least 1 ring but no more. They had a very short window in which MJ blocked them and, like the Knicks, they lost when they actually got past MJ.

Pacers just weren't that good. Well rounded team but not winning a title. Not more than these other teams at least. I still think a lot of the success they did have was already due to over performing.

[Stringer Bell]

1991: Lakers beat Pistons in the finals
1992: Blazers and Cavs in the finals. Not sure who wins here
1993: Suns and Knicks in the finals. I guess I would lean slightly towards NY because of the superior defense
1996: Sonics and Magic in the finals. I favor Orlando, if Grant is healthy.
1997: Jazz and Heat in the finals. Probably favor Utah
1998: Jazz and Pacers in the finals. I guess Utah repeats.

There

[72-10]

It's the Knicks, and it's an easy call for me... The Bulls are the only reason the Knicks didn't repeat in '92 and '93, although they would have had quite a tough test against Phoenix in '93.

However, I also think Shaq and Penny would have stayed together as a result of no coexistence with a Bulls team in the same conference, and this would have allowed the Magic to possibly win two titles in '97 and '98 against the Jazz. They certainly wouldn't beat Seattle in '96 as the team was too deep.

[72-10]

Jazz

Knicks, maybe but they weren't a complete enough team imo to win more than the Jazz. Plus they lost even when MJ wasn't around.

Magic out of all the teams here have the highest chance to win at least 1 ring but no more. They had a very short window in which MJ blocked them and, like the Knicks, they lost when they actually got past MJ.

Pacers just weren't that good. Well rounded team but not winning a title. Not more than these other teams at least. I still think a lot of the success they did have was already due to over performing.

I'm surprised you say that about Indiana because that team had enforcers/board bangers in the two Davises to back Reggie and Mully (not to mention Smits and Mark Jackson), and I think that inside presence had a lot to do with why the Pacers took the Bulls to seven games in the '98 ECF, and this is considering that the Bulls WERE there to play against, so how does that team not have a shot in '98?

[Phoenix]

It's the Knicks, and it's an easy call for me... The Bulls are the only reason the Knicks didn't repeat in '92 and '93, although they would have had quite a tough test against Phoenix in '93.

However, I also think Shaq and Penny would have stayed together as a result of no coexistence with a Bulls team in the same conference, and this would have allowed the Magic to possibly win two titles in '97 and '98 against the Jazz. They certainly wouldn't beat Seattle in '96 as the team was too deep.

Bear in mind though, Penny's last real superstar year was 97. For 97-98 he played 19 games and was pretty much already done in terms of being the player he had seen a couple years before. I think Shaq was headed to the Lakers anyways, but I'd give them the 96 title over Seattle and he'd be the biggest reason why. Kemp wouldn't have the series against Orlando that he did against Chicago, Penny and Payton probably cancel each other to some degree, rest of the role players on ether side generally cancel each other. Shaq would be too dominant in that series, however.

[90sgoat]

Probably Knicks.

[JBSptfn]

Here's an addition to this: What if the Bulls don't exist as we knew them, and Bias lives?

1991: Celtics over Lakers in the Finals (in reality, the 90-91 Celtics started 29-5 until Bird's back went out. In this other reality, Bird retires in 88, Bias stays healthy, and the Celtics dominate the whole year).

1992: Knicks over Blazers

1993: Knicks over Suns

1996: Sonics over Magic

1997: Magic over Jazz (Shaq stays with a ring)

1998: Magic over Jazz

[Overdrive]

Rockets?

Only Jazz made 2 finals, if they win both it's tied. Only an east team could've won more. Maybe Orlando 96 through 98.

[Phoenix]

Not sure why people keep saying Orlando wins in 98. You guys are aware that Penny barely played that year, right?

[Rico2016]

Rockets?

Only Jazz made 2 finals, if they win both it's tied. Only an east team could've won more. Maybe Orlando 96 through 98.


+1

[SamuraiSWISH]

I think it would’ve been even 2 for a few teams.

I think that 1993 finals between the suns and the knicks would’ve been amazing. With their contrasting styles. Best offense vs best defense.

I think the magic and sonics Finals in 1996 would’ve been ridiculous. Very evenly matched.

The rockets should’ve been in the finals in 1997 if Barkley was in shape but I see the Jazz winning in 97 and 98 without the Bulls as we know them.

[Overdrive]

Not sure why people keep saying Orlando wins in 98. You guys are aware that Penny barely played that year, right?

Butterfly effect.

TBH Shaq would've bolted for Hollywood no matter what.

[Phoenix]

Butterfly effect.

TBH Shaq would've bolted for Hollywood no matter what.

Yes, I said this earlier. I would personally take Orlando in 96 over the Sonics and then Shaq heads to LA. Reason being outside of the 'prestige' of being a Laker, there really wasn't better 'basketball' reasons to leave Orlando in 96. The Magic were considered the team of the future and more of a known entity than the team he had in LA. It's not like anyone knew Kobe was gonna end up being 'Kobe', and while Eddie Jones/Van Exel were nice, I wouldn't take them by any means over a surrounding cast of Penny(before the injuries), Nick Anderson, Horace and 3D. That team was almost a virtual lock had they remained together, healthy, and once the Bulls aged out.

['Toine=MVP]

Orlando wins 2-3 if Shaq stays.

Assuming that doesn't happen...

91 - Pistons
92 - Blazers
93 - Suns

96 - Magic
97 - Heat
98 - Pacers

[SamuraiSWISH]

Orlando wins 2-3 if Shaq stays.

Assuming that doesn't happen...

91 - Pistons
92 - Blazers
93 - Suns

96 - Magic
97 - Heat
98 - Pacers
While Miami was a way better team defense in 1997, they gave the Bls less trouble than that Jazz team did. So how do you figure?

[Stringer Bell]

I favor the Cavs over the Knicks in 92

[Bawkish]

i would give Chuck, Pat & that pedo each title in the 90s

i think The Dream, The Pedo & Chuck have strong cases to repeat

[superduper]

If MJ didn't exist Chuck/Ewing/StockMalone would be leading their own individual dynasties.

[BarberSchool]

1990: Pistons beat lakers
1991: Knicks beat Lakers
1992; Knicks beat Blazers
1993: Phoenix beat Knicks
1994: Rockets beat Knicks
1995: Rockets beat Magic
1996: Sonics beat Magic
1997: Jazz beat Heat
1998: Jazz beat Pacers
1999: Spurs beat knicks



Pistons complete their B2B in 1990
Knicks enjoy a back to back 91-92
Barkley/Majerle/KJ get one over the knicks.
Rockets do what they did.
Sonics slide past a young magic squad, when kemp still cares.
Jazz B2B
Spurs start their dynasty

[Stringer Bell]

1990: Pistons beat lakers
1991: Knicks beat Lakers
1992; Knicks beat Blazers
1993: Phoenix beat Knicks
1994: Rockets beat Knicks
1995: Rockets beat Magic
1996: Sonics beat Magic
1997: Jazz beat Heat
1998: Jazz beat Pacers
1999: Spurs beat knicks



Pistons complete their B2B in 1990
Knicks enjoy a back to back 91-92
Barkley/Majerle/KJ get one over the knicks.
Rockets do what they did.
Sonics slide past a young magic squad, when kemp still cares.
Jazz B2B
Spurs start their dynasty

The Knicks were a sub .500 team during the 90-91 season.

We might get another Lakers-Pistons matchup.

Sonics-Magic in 96’ would be interesting, and Horace Grant’s health could’ve been key. The Magic were not getting past that the 96’ Bulls even with a healthy Grant, but it could be vital against Seattle.

[Stringer Bell]

If MJ didn't exist Chuck/Ewing/StockMalone would be leading their own individual dynasties.

I don

[BarberSchool]

[QUOTE=Stringer Bell]The Knicks were a sub .500 team during the 90-91 season.

We might get another Lakers-Pistons matchup.

Sonics-Magic in 96