Lebron need 2-time all-star C; perimeter sidekick defender & COY to make 06 Playoffs

[3ball]

while MJ needed nothing to make 85' Playoffs

How am i wrong?

Lebron needed a lot more help to make the playoffs (a 2-time center, a perimeter sidekick defender, and COY), and also to win rings (a third star)

Thats why his stats are worse from any segment of his career - his better casts could do more for him
.

[SouBeachTalents]

while MJ needed nothing to make 85' Playoffs

How am i wrong?

Lebron needed a lot more help to make the playoffs (a 2-time center, a perimeter sidekick defender, and COY), and also to win rings (a third star)

Thats why his stats are worse from any segment of his career - his better casts could do more for him
He didn't need a winning record either

[Smoke117]

He didn't need a winning record either

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: OP slayed on the first response.

[3ball]

He didn't need a winning record either
MJ was a rookie - lebron won about the same as a rookie

Splitting hairs about one or two games either way doesn't mean much

That's why I don't give MJ too much credit for making the playoffs when other first-year guys like Lebron, Durant or Curry missed them.. it's always a game or two either way so who cares - but by the same token, when MJ's 8 seed gets spanked by a warriors-level team, let's not act like Lebron's 9 seed in 05' would've done any better, or would've beaten the champion pistons had they snuck in the 05' playoffs

[bigkingsfan]

He didn't need a winning record either
:eek:
:roll:

[Doranku]

He didn't need a winning record either
:oldlol:

[Ainosterhaspie]

Well you've got new material this time, I'll give you that.

MJ at 21 losing record of 38-44, but they let everyone in the playoffs back then. Bulls aren't even the 8th seed with that crappy record. Crushed in the first round.

LeBron at 21 winning record of 50-32, 12 wins more than MJ at same age. Makes the second round and takes the two time defending conference champs to 7 games.

[SpaceJam]

He didn't need a winning record either

WOW! :eek: :roll:

[Trollsmasher]

He didn't need a winning record either
:mad:

[MrFonzworth]

Perimeter sidekick defender? What does that even mean? Sounds like a superhero name a 7 year old made up on the spot

[Gileraracer]

Lebron always needed more help than anybody else

[Manny98]

He didn't need a winning record either
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[ImKobe]

He didn't need a winning record either

https://media.giphy.com/media/UoXxp5qi7KKLC/giphy.gif

[Vino24]

He didn't need a winning record either
:applause:

[RRR3]

He didn't need a winning record either
Bodybagged :roll:

[sdot_thadon]

He didn't need a winning record either
:oldlol:

[3ball]

He didn't need a winning record either



Stats for mj/lebron's first 3 playoff seasons


REGULAR SEASON

MJ. 85-87' (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1985-1987-sum:per_game):. 31.7 ppg.. 2.0 oreb.. 3.6 dreb.. 5.0 apg.. 2.6 spg.. 1.2 bpg.. 57.1 ts.. 27.8 PER
LBJ 06-08' (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html#2006-2008-sum:per_game):. 27.2 ppg.. 1.2 oreb.. 5.9 dreb.. 7.1 apg.. 1.4 spg.. 1.0 bpg.. 56.3 ts.. 27.2 PER..


^^^ jordan got 8 seeds, while lebron produced less but got 2 and 4 seeds


PLAYOFFS

MJ. 85-87' (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1985-1987-sum:playoffs_per_game):. 35.5 ppg.. 1.9 oreb.. 4.4 dreb.. 6.9 apg.. 2.4 spg.. 1.5 bpg.. 56.0 ts.. 27.4 PER
LBJ 06-08' (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html#2006-2008-sum:playoffs_per_game):. 27.5 ppg.. 1.4 oreb.. 6.6 dreb.. 7.3 apg.. 1.6 spg.. 0.8 bpg.. 53.1 ts.. 23.8 PER..


^^^ jordan lost in 1st Round, while lebron produced less but made Finals


Lebron's cast made up the production gap.. He needed 2005 all-star Zydrunas and Hughes to make the 06' playoffs, just like MJ needed rookie Pippen to make the 2nd round.. except rookie pippen wasn't capable of 2-time all-star (Zydrunas), or 22/5/5 and 1st team all-D (05' Hughes)

Unfortunately, the way the media analyzes lebron/MJ, they imply that lebron was getting high seeds and the Finals with the same casts that MJ got 8 seeds with... But that's not true, and the stats above show that mj was producing far more than lebron

[egokiller]

Stats for mj/lebron's first 3 playoff seasons


REGULAR SEASON

MJ. 85-87' (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1985-1987-sum:per_game):. 31.7 ppg.. 2.0 oreb.. 3.6 dreb.. 5.0 apg.. 2.6 spg.. 1.2 bpg.. 57.1 ts.. 27.8 PER
LBJ 06-08' (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html#2006-2008-sum:per_game):. 27.2 ppg.. 1.2 oreb.. 5.9 dreb.. 7.1 apg.. 1.4 spg.. 1.0 bpg.. 56.3 ts.. 27.2 PER..


^^^ jordan got 8 seeds, while lebron produced less but got 2 and 4 seeds


PLAYOFFS

MJ. 85-87' (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1985-1987-sum:playoffs_per_game):. 35.5 ppg.. 1.9 oreb.. 4.4 dreb.. 6.9 apg.. 2.4 spg.. 1.5 bpg.. 56.0 ts.. 27.4 PER
LBJ 06-08' (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html#2006-2008-sum:playoffs_per_game):. 27.5 ppg.. 1.4 oreb.. 6.6 dreb.. 7.3 apg.. 1.6 spg.. 0.8 bpg.. 53.1 ts.. 23.8 PER..


^^^ jordan lost in 1st Round, while lebron produced less but made Finals


Lebron's cast made up the production gap.. He needed 2005 all-star Zydrunas and Hughes to make the 06' playoffs, just like MJ needed rookie Pippen to make the 2nd round.. except rookie pippen wasn't capable of 2-time all-star (Zydrunas), or 22/5/5 and 1st team all-D (05' Hughes)

Unfortunately, the way the media analyzes lebron/MJ, they imply that lebron was getting high seeds and the Finals with the same casts that MJ got 8 seeds with... But that's not true, and the stats above show that mj was producing far more than lebron

Stop posting facts! It ruins the "didn't need a winning record either" argument and results in lebron looking mediocre compared to MJ.

[scuzzy]

He didn't need a winning record either
urinary track infection :roll: :roll:

[3ball]

Thread Cliffs

JORDAN - needed nothing to make the playoffs
LEBRON - needed 2-time all-star center, sidekick perimeter defender, COY


Then Lebron added 2 more all-stars in 09/10 (Mo, Jamison), another all-league defender (varejao), and the 09' all-star MVP (shaq) to be 4th option..

all this in a weak conference that didn't require a good cast to make the Finals - 5 weak casts had made the Finals from 01-09' (09' Dwight 09', 02/03 Kidd, 01' AI, 07' Lebron)..

yet Lebron failed to make the 09/10 Finals despite being a favorite in a weak conference, so he stacked the deck from 11-18' to ensure Finals runs.. it was a slimy move.
.

[Ainosterhaspie]

Thread Cliffs: OP Stans a losing record. Everyone laughs at him.

[Rico2016]

I don't know how many more times we need to collectively send this to you but it appears many more times, so here it is:

1-9

[SpaceJam]

Stop posting facts! It ruins the "didn't need a winning record either" argument and results in lebron looking mediocre compared to MJ.

I'm sorry did he or did he not make the 85 playoffs with a winning record?

It's not an argument :roll: It's FACTS

[bison]

1-9

Why do you guys keep posting your shifts at McDonald

[superduper]

[QUOTE=bison]Why do you guys keep posting your shifts at McDonald

[3ball]

I'm sorry did he or did he not make the 85 playoffs with a winning record?

It's not an argument :roll: It's FACTS

Here's how much tougher MJ's conference was:


PLAYOFFS

MJ. 85-87' (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1985-1987-sum:playoffs_per_game):. 35.5 ppg.. 1.9 oreb.. 4.4 dreb.. 6.9 apg.. 2.4 spg.. 1.5 bpg.. 56.0 ts.. 27.4 PER
LBJ 06-08' (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html#2006-2008-sum:playoffs_per_game):. 27.5 ppg.. 1.4 oreb.. 6.6 dreb.. 7.3 apg.. 1.6 spg.. 0.8 bpg.. 53.1 ts.. 23.8 PER..


^^^ Yet Jordan lost in 1st Round, while lebron produced less but made Finals

[Wally450]

3ball scrambling right now. :oldlol:

[SouBeachTalents]

Here's how much tougher MJ's conference was:


PLAYOFFS

MJ. 85-87' (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1985-1987-sum:playoffs_per_game):. 35.5 ppg.. 1.9 oreb.. 4.4 dreb.. 6.9 apg.. 2.4 spg.. 1.5 bpg.. 56.0 ts.. 27.4 PER
LBJ 06-08' (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html#2006-2008-sum:playoffs_per_game):. 27.5 ppg.. 1.4 oreb.. 6.6 dreb.. 7.3 apg.. 1.6 spg.. 0.8 bpg.. 53.1 ts.. 23.8 PER..


^^^ Yet Jordan lost in 1st Round, while lebron produced less but made Finals
But you always claim Kobe > LeBron, so if we were to do this same exact comparison for them, you’d be completely contradicting yourself

[3ball]

But you always claim Kobe > LeBron, so if we were to do this same exact comparison for them, you’d be completely contradicting yourself
Not at all - I've never claimed that young Kobe had a weaker cast than young lebron - young Kobe's cast was clearly much better - everyone knows that, so im on solid ground

You guys are the ones ignoring that lebron had a better cast than MJ, which is why his teams were seeded much higher despite him producing much less than MJ

MJ had nothing until 1990, while lebron had 3 all-stars (Zydrunas, Mo, Jamison), 2 all-league defenders (Hughes, Varejao), the 09' all-star mvp as 4th option in 10', and the COY
.

[StrongLurk]

Not at all - I've never claimed that young Kobe had a weaker cast than young lebron - young Kobe's cast was clearly much better - everyone knows that, so im on solid ground

You guys are the ones ignoring that lebron had a better cast than MJ, which is why his teams were seeded much higher despite him producing much less than MJ

MJ had nothing until 1990, while lebron had 3 all-stars (Zydrunas, Mo, Jamison), 2 all-league defenders (Hughes, Varejao), the 09' all-star mvp as 4th option in 10', and the COY
.

Troll Scrambling :biggums:

[3ball]

I
Troll Scrambling :biggums:
No I clearly gotcha

No one ever tried to say young Kobe had a weak cast - you made that up and it made my point stronger... So thanks bruh, you da man

[Hey Yo]

Not at all - I've never claimed that young Kobe had a weaker cast than young lebron - young Kobe's cast was clearly much better - everyone knows that, so im on solid ground

You guys are the ones ignoring that lebron had a better cast than MJ, which is why his teams were seeded much higher despite him producing much less than MJ

MJ had nothing until 1990, while lebron had 3 all-stars (Zydrunas, Mo, Jamison), 2 all-league defenders (Hughes, Varejao), the 09' all-star mvp as 4th option in 10', and the COY
.
Kobe didn't even have a cast until he was 26yrs old. That's the first time he was considered the best player on the team.

Then how did Chicago have a 2-1 lead against Detroit in 89 if they had nothing?

How did they almost take a 3-2 series lead in spite of MJ only taking 8FGA that game if they had nothing?

How did "nothing" hold Detroit to 42% shooting in that series?

Just admit you never even watched that series and don't know what the hell you're talking about.

[SpaceJam]

Here's how much tougher MJ's conference was:


PLAYOFFS

MJ. 85-87' (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1985-1987-sum:playoffs_per_game):. 35.5 ppg.. 1.9 oreb.. 4.4 dreb.. 6.9 apg.. 2.4 spg.. 1.5 bpg.. 56.0 ts.. 27.4 PER
LBJ 06-08' (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html#2006-2008-sum:playoffs_per_game):. 27.5 ppg.. 1.4 oreb.. 6.6 dreb.. 7.3 apg.. 1.6 spg.. 0.8 bpg.. 53.1 ts.. 23.8 PER..


^^^ Yet Jordan lost in 1st Round, while lebron produced less but made Finals

Empty stats, obviously 80s MJ doesn't play winning basketball. Took Pippen to come along and show him what's up

[StrongLurk]

I
No I clearly gotcha

No one ever tried to say young Kobe had a weak cast - you made that up and it made my point stronger... So thanks bruh, you da man

Lol you have me confused with another poster apparently.

[sdot_thadon]

Kobe didn't even have a cast until he was 26yrs old. That's the first time he was considered the best player on the team.

Then how did Chicago have a 2-1 lead against Detroit in 89 if they had nothing?

How did they almost take a 3-2 series lead in spite of MJ only taking 8FGA that game if they had nothing?

How did "nothing" hold Detroit to 42% shooting in that series?

Just admit you never even watched that series and don't know what the hell you're talking about.
That's too strong, you'll end up putting him in a coma he's a lightweight.....:oldlol:

[3ball]

Kobe didn't even have a cast until he was 26yrs old. That's the first time he was considered the best player on the team.

Then how did Chicago have a 2-1 lead against Detroit in 89 if they had nothing?

How did they almost take a 3-2 series lead in spite of MJ only taking 8FGA that game if they had nothing?

How did "nothing" hold Detroit to 42% shooting in that series?

Just admit you never even watched that series and don't know what the hell you're talking about.
The same way Lebron had a 2-1 lead in the 2015 Finals - carrying his team as the underdog... :hammerhead:.. slow today are we?

Btw, Detroit shot poorly because MJ held Isiah and Dumars to 37% each, while baby Pip let Aguirre shoot 53%

[Hey Yo]

The same way Lebron had a 2-1 lead in the 2015 Finals - carrying his team as the underdog... :hammerhead:.. slow today are we?

Btw, Detroit shot poorly because MJ held Isiah and Dumars to 37% each, while baby Pip let Aguirre shoot 53%
Except you've done nothing but praise Mozgov for that series. Said how great he was and that LeBron phased him out after having a big game. Why all of sudden now you say LeBron did it on his own in 2015? You're now admitting James carried the Cavs to the Finals with nothing? Comparing 2015 to MJ's quit job is quite comical.

Detroit shot poorly due to the Bulls team defense plus missing wide open shots.

Isiah shot 39%. As usual, you fudge the numbers.

Regular season MJ shot 54%. Isiah the midget holding him to 46% on the series must have been pretty embarrassing for MJ, huh? Or was it the Jordan rules like you said many times? How could MJ alone have Chicago up 2-1 if Detroit was playing suffocating Jordan Rules defense on him like you said?

In game 5, the Bulls were in it the entire game in spite of MJ refusing to shoot. Not getting involved in the offense whatsoever, yet Bulls had multiple 10pt leads in the first half. Detroit shot 30% in the first half. If MJ would have taken his head out of his ass, it could have been close to 20 point leads at times. Yet he was scared to death to even try to drive to the basket in game 5.

To say Chicago had nothing in 89 is beyond dumb. You've made it even more evident you didn't watch the series.

[3ball]

Except you've done nothing but praise Mozgov for that series. Said how great he was and that LeBron phased him out after having a big game. Why all of sudden now you say LeBron did it on his own in 2015? You're now admitting James carried the Cavs to the Finals with nothing? Comparing 2015 to MJ's quit jobnin 89' ECF is quite comical.

To say Chicago had nothing in 89 is beyond dumb. You've made it even more evident you didn't watch the series.



Yes, Lebron carried a nothing cast to a 2-1 lead over the Curry-Warriors, just like MJ led his nothing cast to a 2-1 lead over the Bad Boys.. Both collapsed and lost the lead after that.

And both were 1-man teams, although Mosgov and Tristan were obviously much better than 89' Pippen:



Mosgov 15' Finals:. 14.0.... 7.5.. 1.0... 55.1 fg
Tristan.' 15' Finals:.' 10.0.. 13.0.. 0.3... 50.0 fg
Pippen.. 89' ECF: ..... 9.7.... 7.3.. 3.0... 40.4 fg


So ur just lying at this point - you weren't there and are simply fabricating lies 30 years after the fact.. it's pathetic

Look how horrible 89' Pippen was compared to 09' Mo':


09' Mo Will RS:. 18/3/4.. 58.8 ts.. 115 ORtg.. 17.1 PER.. 0.165 ws/48.. 2.3 bpm.. 3.1 vorp
89' Pippen RS:.. 14/6/4.. 52.4 ts.. 102 ORtg.. 14.9 PER.. 0.080 ws/48.. 1.4 bpm.. 2.1 vorp

09' Mo Will ECF:.ni 18/3/4.. 50.5 ts.. 102 ORtg.. lost to #4 SRS (2 all-stars)
89' Pippen 1st Rd:. 15/9/4.. 51.0 ts.. 102 ORtg.. beat 'o #1 SRS (3 all-stars*)
89' Pippen ECF:ni.' 10/7/3.. 45.3 ts.... 92 ORtg


Again, you're clearly FOS... Avoid this raping that I'm administering on you and accept the obvious facts - MJ was a 1-man show in 89' just like Lebron in 2015 Finals, except MJ had to carry his team all year, while lebron only had to carry his team for a couple series... :cheers:
.

[Turbo Slayer]

He didn't need a winning record either destroyed

[3ball]

destroyed
No, he showed how dumb people think about this issue

Hey Yo is the only one I see that got destroyed itt

[LAmbruh]

He didn't need a winning record either
:roll: :roll:

[3ball]

:roll: :roll:
^^^ fake

Or perhaps you're laughing at SouBeach and his opinion, in which case.. :rockon:

[RRR3]

3ball got absolutely raped in this thread.

[LAmbruh]

3ball got absolutely raped in this thread.

first reply slays are the best :lol

[3ball]

3ball got absolutely raped in this thread.
Says a lebron stan

But the reality is that I'm Mayweather itt - no one laid a finger on me

Otoh, look what I did to Hey Yo a few posts up .. yikes.. he's ghost after i showed him that mosgov and Tristan were far better in the 15' Finals than 89' pip

[Jameerthefear]

He didn't need a winning record either
HOLY ****

[3ball]

HOLY ****


05' LEBRON - 42 wins with 2-time all-star center.. 9 seed
87' JORDAN - 40 wins with nothing.. 8 seed


^^^ A game or two either way is "HOLY SHIT" to you?... A bunch of beta actors itt... :facepalm

Teams were getting 1 seeds in Lebron's conference with 53 wins - that's more significant than MJ getting the 8 seed with 40 wins and Lebron getting the 9 seed with 42

And the fact remains that Lebron needed a 2-time all-star center, an all-defense perimeter sidekick defender, and a future COY to make 06' Playoffs, while MJ made the playoffs with nothing, and only needed 7 ppg rookie Pip to make 2nd round

[SpaceJam]

He didn't need a winning record either

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[FireDavidKahn]

He didn't need a winning record either
Unrecoverable.

[Vino24]

He didn't need a winning record either
:oldlol: :oldlol: :roll:

[3ball]

:oldlol: :oldlol: :roll:
it isn't a valid point - you guys keep posting bullshit and I'll keep posting the facts - I can do this until the end of time


05' LEBRON - 42 wins with 2-time all-star center.. 9 seed
87' JORDAN - 40 wins with nothing.. 8 seed


^^^ A game or two either way means nothing

Teams were getting 1 seeds in Lebron's conference with 53 wins - that's more significant than MJ getting the 8 seed with 40 wins and Lebron getting the 9 seed with 42

And the fact remains that Lebron needed a 2-time all-star center, an all-defense perimeter sidekick defender, and a future COY to make 06' Playoffs, while MJ made the playoffs with nothing, and only needed 7 ppg rookie Pip to make 2nd round

[Ainosterhaspie]

:roll:

Got destroyed so now he's talking about 05 when he started out talking about 06. And 87 for MJ instead of 85. Keep moving those goalposts.

:roll:

Never change 3ball.

[SpaceJam]

:roll:

Got destroyed so now he's talking about 05 when he started out talking about 06. And 87 for MJ instead of 85. Keep moving those goalposts.

:roll:

Never change 3ball.

:roll: :roll: :roll: