Apparently Mo Williams was an elite shooter [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

3ball

09-14-2019, 11:39 PM

Yeah. 3ball believes that he was a "mini curry".[

2009 vs. 2019

MO.... WILLIAMS....:. 18/3/5.. 58.8 ts.. 115 ortg.. 17.2 PER.. 0.165 ws.. 2.3 bpm.. 3.1 vorp
CHRIS MIDDLETON:. 18/5/3.. 55.5 ts.. 106 ortg.. 16.3 PER.. 0.122 ws.. 0.7 bpm.. 1.6 vorp

lebron was producing much less than MJ to win more games - his 28/8/7 got 66 wins, while MJ's 33/8/8 got 47 wins, or 37/5/5 got 42 wins, or 35/6/6/dpoy got 50 wins..

The reason lebron won more by doing less is because his cast was decorated while MJ's had zero - Varejao was all-defense, Mo was an all-star, Hughes was all-defense, Zydrunas was a 2-time all-star, Jamison was a 2-time all-star and Shaq was 2009 all-star mvp.. that's simply far better players than MJ had.. in a MUCH weaker conference

Yeah. 3ball believes that he was a "mini curry".[

09' Mo Will RS:. 18/3/4.. 58.8 ts.. 115 ORtg.. 17.1 PER.. 0.165 ws/48.. 2.3 bpm.. 3.1 vorp
89' Pippen RS:.. 14/6/4.. 52.4 ts.. 102 ORtg.. 14.9 PER.. 0.080 ws/48.. 1.4 bpm.. 2.1 vorp

09' Mo Will ECF:.ni 18/3/4.. 50.5 ts.. 102 ORtg.. lost to #4 SRS (2 all-stars)
89' Pippen 1st Rd:. 15/9/4.. 51.0 ts.. 102 ORtg.. beat 'o #1 SRS (3 all-stars*)

* plus 20/5/5 Ron Harper

^^^ Lebron had the far better cast but lost to a worse team than MJ defeated in 89'.. :confusedshrug:

So Lebron's 09' loss as the favorite was clearly a black mark - MJ would've won against the weaker opponent and with the greater help on BOTH ends of the floor (cavs had the better defense than 89' bulls)

SVG said he didn't double Lebron and stayed at home to lock down teammates - this kind of strategy wouldn't work against MJ, which is why he beat a better team (#1 SRS, 4 star Cavs) with a worse cast (Mo > 89' Pip)
.

Uncle Drew

09-15-2019, 02:54 AM

CHRIS MIDDLETON
Who?

ImKobe

09-15-2019, 03:10 AM

Pretty close to elite, definitely was in 2009 and 2010 but didn't get enough shots IMO. He shot the 3 well everywhere though - Clippers, Jazz, Blazers.

Keno

09-15-2019, 03:39 AM

only reason people know that name is because of lebron. :oldlol:

3ball

09-15-2019, 04:48 AM

only reason people know that name is because of lebron. :oldlol:
The stats in post #8 (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13820797&postcount=8) show that Mo was much better than Khris Middletown

And he was much better than 89' Pippen, yet Pip beat the #1 SRS team and Mo lost to the #4 team - so obviously, pip had better help
.

G0ATbe

09-15-2019, 05:06 AM

Lebron moulded him into a serviceable one

Uncle Drew

09-15-2019, 05:11 AM

Khris Middletown
Who?

SpaceJam

09-15-2019, 05:25 AM

Who?

:roll: :roll: :roll:

scuzzy

09-15-2019, 05:38 AM

Who?
:yaohappy:

3ball

09-15-2019, 06:07 AM

Lebron moulded him into a serviceable one
Actually, Mo's stats were better the year before joining Lebron:

Mo Will 08' - 17.2.. 3.5.. 6.3..48.0%
Mo Will 09' - 17.8.. 3.4.. 4.1.. 46.7%

Mo had 2 seasons of 17/3/6 in 07' and 08' before lebron reduced his assists to only 4.1 in 09'.. Lebron's abnormal ball-dominance as a frontcourt player reduces EVERYONE'S assists (not just Mo), so the team ranks low in assists and struggles on the championship level against better-passing teams that massively out-assist the.. 3/9

Trollsmasher

09-15-2019, 06:16 AM

so why did he choke so hard in the playoffs?

3ball

09-15-2019, 06:29 AM

so why did he choke so hard in the playoffs?
Mo averaged 18 on 37.5% - MJ won with much worse (especially 96-98'):

Pippen

1988 PLAYOFFS:. 10.0 on 46.5%

1989 PLAYOFFS:. 13.1 on 46.2% (9.7 on 40.4% in ecf)

1990 ECF. vs. DET:. 16.6 on 42.8% (2 pts, 1-10 in game 7)

1992 ECSF vs NYN:. 16.0 on 40.2%

1994 ECSF vs NYN:. 21.7 on 40.5%

1995 ECSF vs ORL:. 19.0 on 40.9%

1996 ECSF vs NYN:. 15.6 on 33.0%
1996 FINAL vs SEA:. 15.7 on 34.3%

1997 RD 1 vs WAS:. 16.7 on 38.3%
1997 ECF. vs. MIA:. 16.8 on 41.7%

1998 ECFS vsN IND:. 16.6 on 39.2%
1998 FINAL vs UTA:. 15.7 on 41.0%

MJ beat a better team than the Magic with a worse cast:

09' Mo Will ECF:.ni 18/3/4.. 50.5 ts.. 102 ORtg.. lost to #4 SRS (2 all-stars)
89' Pippen 1st Rd:. 15/9/4.. 51.0 ts.. 102 ORtg.. beat 'o #1 SRS (3 all-stars*)
89' Pippen ECF:rd. 10/7/3.. 45.3 ts.... 95 ORtg.. lost to champs

* plus 20/5/5 Ron Harper

^^^ Lebron had the far better cast and team defense but lost to a worse team than MJ defeated in 89'.. and Bron was a big favorite while mj was the underdog.. :confusedshrug:

So Lebron's 09' loss as the favorite was clearly a black mark

SVG said he didn't double Lebron and stayed at home to lock down teammates - this kind of strategy wouldn't work against MJ, which is why he beat a better team (#1 SRS, 4 star Cavs) with a worse cast (Mo > 89' Pip)
.

ImKobe

09-15-2019, 08:42 AM

so why did he choke so hard in the playoffs?

Game 6, 2009 ECF
17/3/5 6/12 FG 3/4 3PT

Game 6, 2010 ECSF
22/7/4/2 8/18FG 1/4 3PT

How did he choke exactly?

Lebron shot 8/20 and 8/21 (with 9 TO in 2010) in these same games btw

Manny98

09-15-2019, 08:47 AM

Game 6, 2009 ECF
17/3/5 6/12 FG 3/4 3PT

Game 6, 2010 ECSF
22/7/4/2 8/18FG 1/4 3PT

How did he choke exactly?

Lebron shot 8/20 and 8/21 (with 9 TO in 2010) in these same games btw
Post Mo Williams stats for the entire series

Df are you cherrypicking one game to try and make out he wasn't dogshit :oldlol:

madmax

09-15-2019, 09:27 AM

Ah so LeBron elevated him?

:applause:

ImKobe

09-15-2019, 09:59 AM

Post Mo Williams stats for the entire series

Df are you cherrypicking one game to try and make out he wasn't dogshit :oldlol:

I'm looking at the elimination games, he said Mo choked so he made it sound like he was hot garbage and that's why they lost the series, when in fact it was Lebron who put up a stinker in both elimination games.

Mo averaged 18/4/4 with 37.5%3PT for the Orlando series and 13/4/6 in the Boston one, he played well enough as a 2nd option for them to win, it's just Lebron who came up short in key moments. Mo wasn't even a 2nd option in 2010, Shaq and Jamison got about the same amount of shots.

warriorfan

09-15-2019, 11:36 AM

Mo Williams was a really good player. You can spot the incels who don

Hey Yo

09-15-2019, 12:27 PM

Actually, Mo's stats were better the year before joining Lebron:

Mo Will 08' - 17.2.. 3.5.. 6.3..48.0%
Mo Will 09' - 17.8.. 3.4.. 4.1.. 46.7%

Mo had 2 seasons of 17/3/6 in 07' and 08' before lebron reduced his assists to only 4.1 in 09'.. Lebron's abnormal ball-dominance as a frontcourt player reduces EVERYONE'S assists (not just Mo), so the team ranks low in assists and struggles on the championship level against better-passing teams that massively out-assist the.. 3/9
Milwaukee failed to win 30 games in either season. They were garbage in 07 and 08 with Williams.

3ball

09-15-2019, 01:28 PM

Post Mo Williams stats for the entire series

Df are you cherrypicking one game to try and make out he wasn't dogshit :oldlol:
Mo averaged 18 on 37.5% - MJ won with much worse (especially 96-98'):

Pippen

1988 PLAYOFFS:. 10.0 on 46.5%

1989 PLAYOFFS:. 13.1 on 46.2% (9.7 on 40.4% in ecf)

1990 ECF. vs. DET:. 16.6 on 42.8% (2 pts, 1-10 in game 7)

1992 ECSF vs NYN:. 16.0 on 40.2%

1994 ECSF vs NYN:. 21.7 on 40.5%

1995 ECSF vs ORL:. 19.0 on 40.9%

1996 ECSF vs NYN:. 15.6 on 33.0%
1996 FINAL vs SEA:. 15.7 on 34.3%

1997 RD 1 vs WAS:. 16.7 on 38.3%
1997 ECF. vs. MIA:. 16.8 on 41.7%

1998 ECFS vsN IND:. 16.6 on 39.2%
1998 FINAL vs UTA:. 15.7 on 41.0%

MJ beat a better team than the Magic with a worse cast:

09' Mo Will ECF:.ni 18/3/4.. 50.5 ts.. 102 ORtg.. lost to #4 SRS (2 all-stars)
89' Pippen 1st Rd:. 15/9/4.. 51.0 ts.. 102 ORtg.. beat 'o #1 SRS (3 all-stars*)
89' Pippen ECF:rd. 10/7/3.. 45.3 ts.... 95 ORtg.. lost to champs

* plus 20/5/5 Ron Harper

^^^ Lebron had the far better cast and team defense but lost to a worse team than MJ defeated in 89'.. and Bron was a big favorite/1 seed while mj was the underdog/6 seed.. :confusedshrug:

So Lebron's 09' loss as the favorite was clearly a black mark

SVG said he didn't double Lebron and stayed at home to lock down teammates - this kind of strategy wouldn't work against MJ, which is why he beat a better team (#1 SRS, 4-star Cavs) with a worse cast (Mo > 89' Pip)

3ball

09-15-2019, 01:32 PM

Milwaukee failed to win 30 games in either season. They were garbage in 07 and 08 with Williams.
They didn't have a 2-time all-star center in place already winning 20

Hey Yo

09-15-2019, 01:46 PM

They didn't have a 2-time all-star center in place already winning 20
That one all-star that couldn't lead his team to more than 17 wins in the 2003 season??

bigkingsfan

09-15-2019, 01:49 PM

Orlando Wooldridge 23 ppg, 61% TS, 19.5 PER. Better than all the listed players.

theballerFKA Ace

09-15-2019, 03:12 PM

Double Post

theballerFKA Ace

09-15-2019, 03:15 PM

1. MJ
2.Kareem
3. Shaq
4. Hakeem
5. Russell
6. Wilt
7. Duncan
8. Magic
9. Bird
10. Kobe
11. Lebron

He's not top 10 but definitely top 20:

Wheels dusting off the AirBonner alt before season. Looks like it won't even pretend to be a Celtics fan this year

SouBeachTalents

09-15-2019, 03:27 PM

I'm looking at the elimination games, he said Mo choked so he made it sound like he was hot garbage and that's why they lost the series, when in fact it was Lebron who put up a stinker in both elimination games.

Mo averaged 18/4/4 with 37.5%3PT for the Orlando series and 13/4/6 in the Boston one, he played well enough as a 2nd option for them to win, it's just Lebron who came up short in key moments. Mo wasn't even a 2nd option in 2010, Shaq and Jamison got about the same amount of shots.
18/4/4 on 51%TS and 13/4/6 on 52%TS is considered good 2nd option production now?

What a fcking clown :oldlol:

3ball

09-15-2019, 03:33 PM

.
Mo averaged 18 on 37.5% - MJ won with much worse (especially 96-98'):

Pippen

1988 PLAYOFFS:. 10.0 on 46.5%

1989 PLAYOFFS:. 13.1 on 46.2% (9.7 on 40.4% in ecf)

1990 ECF. vs. DET:. 16.6 on 42.8% (2 pts, 1-10 in game 7)

1992 ECSF vs NYN:. 16.0 on 40.2%

1994 ECSF vs NYN:. 21.7 on 40.5%

1995 ECSF vs ORL:. 19.0 on 40.9%

1996 ECSF vs NYN:. 15.6 on 33.0%
1996 FINAL vs SEA:. 15.7 on 34.3%

1997 RD 1 vs WAS:. 16.7 on 38.3%
1997 ECF. vs. MIA:. 16.8 on 41.7%

1998 ECFS vsN IND:. 16.6 on 39.2%
1998 FINAL vs UTA:. 15.7 on 41.0%

MJ beat a better team than the Magic with a worse cast:

09' Mo Will ECF:.ni 18/3/4.. 50.5 ts.. 102 ORtg.. lost to #4 SRS (2 all-stars)
89' Pippen 1st Rd:. 15/9/4.. 51.0 ts.. 102 ORtg.. beat 'o #1 SRS (3 all-stars*)
89' Pippen ECF:rd. 10/7/3.. 45.3 ts.... 95 ORtg.. lost to champs

* plus 20/5/5 Ron Harper

^^^ Lebron had the far better cast and team defense but lost to a worse team than MJ defeated in 89'.. and Bron was a big favorite/1 seed while mj was the underdog/6 seed.. :confusedshrug:

So Lebron's 09' loss as the favorite was clearly a black mark

SVG said he didn't double Lebron and stayed at home to lock down teammates - this kind of strategy wouldn't work against MJ, which is why he beat a better team (#1 SRS, 4-star Cavs) with a worse cast (Mo > 89' Pip)

3ball

09-15-2019, 03:33 PM

18/4/4 on 51%TS and 13/4/6 on 52%TS is considered good 2nd option production now?

What a fcking clown :oldlol:
Why can't Lebron win with his 2nd option getting 18 on 38%?, when MJ won with much worse then that all the time? (see previous post)

What a fcking clown :oldlol:

It's one of the many reasons Lebron isn't on MJ's level.. he needs too much help to win

scuzzy

09-15-2019, 03:35 PM

Steve Kerr was an elite shooter

Toni Kukoc was an elite shooter

SamuraiSWISH

09-15-2019, 03:58 PM

He definitely was. Just 5-8 years ahead of the curve with the ball handling combo guard 3 point shot jacking. He

RRR3

09-15-2019, 04:03 PM

[QUOTE=SamuraiSWISH]He definitely was. Just 5-8 years ahead of the curve with the ball handling combo guard 3 point shot jacking. He

SamuraiSWISH

09-15-2019, 04:05 PM

Post this on your 3ball account.
What? Bro. I

LAmbruh

09-15-2019, 04:11 PM

[QUOTE=SamuraiSWISH]What? Bro. I

3ball

09-15-2019, 04:17 PM

amazing how he was a nobody before or after Lebron

seems to be a common tread of dozens of role players throughout his career

#MozgovMoney
#LeElevated
Actually, Mo's stats were better the year before joining Lebron:

Mo Will 08' - 17.2.. 3.5.. 6.3..48.0%
Mo Will 09' - 17.8.. 3.4.. 4.1.. 46.7%

So Mo Williams had 2 seasons of 17/3/6 in 07' and 08' before lebron reduced his assists to only 4.1 in 09'.. Lebron's abnormal ball-dominance as a frontcourt player reduces EVERYONE'S assists (not just Mo), so the team ranks low in assists and struggles on the championship level against better-passing teams that massively out-assist them.. 3/9

Ultimately, Lebron's ball-dominant skillset turns teammates into spot-up shooters, which doesn't develop teammates or the team, and necessities team-hopping for ready-made stars and teams.

RRR3

09-15-2019, 04:26 PM

Actually, Mo's stats were better the year before joining Lebron:

Mo Will 08' - 17.2.. 3.5.. 6.3..48.0%
Mo Will 09' - 17.8.. 3.4.. 4.1.. 46.7%

So Mo Williams had 2 seasons of 17/3/6 in 07' and 08' before lebron reduced his assists to only 4.1 in 09'.. Lebron's abnormal ball-dominance as a frontcourt player reduces EVERYONE'S assists (not just Mo), so the team ranks low in assists and struggles on the championship level against better-passing teams that massively out-assist them.. 3/9

Ultimately, Lebron's ball-dominant skillset turns teammates into spot-up shooters, which doesn't develop teammates or the team, and necessities team-hopping for ready-made stars and teams.
Mo Williams BPM in the two seasons prior to joining LeBron: -0.1, 0.2

Mo Williams BPM with LeBron in 09 and 10: 2.3, 1.6

Mo Williams BPM in 11 without LeBron: -2.3

Shut up.

LAmbruh

09-15-2019, 04:28 PM

Mo Williams BPM in the two seasons prior to joining LeBron: -0.1, 0.2

Mo Williams BPM with LeBron in 09 and 10: 2.3, 1.6

Mo Williams BPM in 11 without LeBron: -2.3

Shut up.
damn, slayed

crazy how Cavs fell off so hard in 2011, compared to the 55 win Bulls with Pippen

kuniva_dAMiGhTy

09-15-2019, 04:30 PM

Lebron doesn't get a pass for 2010, but Mo Williams?

Really?

Guy was hot garbage in the playoffs. Even worse, he was the "second best player" on Cleveland :oldlol:

Hey Yo

09-15-2019, 04:35 PM

[QUOTE=SamuraiSWISH]He definitely was. Just 5-8 years ahead of the curve with the ball handling combo guard 3 point shot jacking. He

3ball

09-15-2019, 04:40 PM

Mo Williams BPM in the two seasons prior to joining LeBron: -0.1, 0.2

Mo Williams BPM with LeBron in 09 and 10: 2.3, 1.6

Mo Williams BPM in 08 without LeBron: 0.2
Mo Williams BPM in 11 without LeBron: -2.3

Shut up.

Okay, let's look at those same stats for Lebron and see how "mini-Curry" Mo Williams impacted Lebron:

Lebron BPM 2008 without mini-Curry: 11.2
Lebron BPM 2009.... with mini-Curry: 13.0
.................................................. ______
.................................................. ..1.8 increase... same increase as Mo's... :confusedshrug:

Every other category of Lebron's increased as well, along with 21 wins for the Cavs too - Mo was the only roster change - I mean "mini Curry" was the only roster change.. The stats show "mini Curry" was much better than 19' Middleton and ridiculously better than 89' Pippen.

Andrei89

09-15-2019, 04:41 PM

If Mo Will is an elite shooter what does that make Klay Thompson?

Super Ultra Mega Elite?

Stop throwing the word

kuniva_dAMiGhTy

09-15-2019, 04:55 PM

If Mo Will is an elite shooter what does that make Klay Thompson?

Super Ultra Mega Elite?

Stop throwing the word “ elite “ everytime you try to diminish Lebron.

Mo Williams was a good role player who thrived mostly because he played with Lebron. He could not create his own shot, was a below average defender, was not a good passer either and would have not be considered a second option except for when we played with Lebron.

More or less.

Leave it to 3ball calling dude "Mini Curry" tho.

Dumb bitch :oldlol:

SouBeachTalents

09-15-2019, 04:56 PM

Why can't Lebron win with his 2nd option getting 18 on 38%?, when MJ won with much worse then that all the time? (see previous post)

What a fcking clown :oldlol:

It's one of the many reasons Lebron isn't on MJ's level.. he needs too much help to win
Let's just pretend aspects like defense and playmaking aren't relevant in basketball, it's ALL ppg :lol

Uncle Drew

09-15-2019, 05:01 PM

We're at a point where people talk about Mo Williams of all people like he's some sort of unstoppable offensive juggernaut close to all-time great status. Only on Insidehoops are people that insane, that far driven from reality.

3ball

09-15-2019, 05:02 PM

[

Mo was not a good passer

Mo averaged 6 assists for 2 years before Lebron's ball-dominance reduced it to 4:

Mo Will 07' - 17.3.. 4.8.. 6.3.. 44.6%
Mo Will 08' - 17.2.. 3.5.. 6.3.. 48.0%

Mo Will 09' - 17.8.. 3.4.. 4.1.. 46.7%

Lebron's abnormal ball-dominance as a frontcourt player reduces EVERYONE'S assists (not just Mo), so the team ranks low in assists and struggles on the championship level against better-passing teams that massively out-assist them.. 3/9

Mo Williams was a good role player who thrived mostly because he played with Lebron.

Actually, Mo's stats were better the years before joining Lebron:

Mo Will 07' - 17.3.. 4.8.. 6.3.. 44.6%
Mo Will 08' - 17.2.. 3.5.. 6.3.. 48.0%

Mo Will 09' - 17.8.. 3.4.. 4.1.. 46.7%

Unfortunately, Lebron's ball-dominant skillset turns teammates into spot-up shooters, which doesn't develop teammates or the team, and necessities team-hopping for ready-made stars and teams.

If Mo Will is an elite shooter what does that make Klay Thompson?

Super Ultra Mega Elite?

You're comparing 2 different eras (09 vs 19')

Mo led the league in 3-point makes per game in 2009, at 40%+... That's elite by any standard, and his shooting was ahead of it's time, thus enabling a 21-win increase, aka "mini-curry" (he was the only roster change)

Stop throwing the word “ elite “ everytime you try to diminish Lebron.

Stop trying to diminish Lebron's teammates to boost Lebron - Mo was clearly much better than Middleton:

2009 vs. 2019

MO.... WILLIAMS....:. 18/3/5.. 58.8 ts.. 115 ortg.. 17.2 PER.. 0.165 ws.. 2.3 bpm.. 3.1 vorp
KHRIS MIDDLETON:.. 18/5/3.. 55.5 ts.. 106 ortg.. 16.3 PER.. 0.122 ws.. 0.7 bpm.. 1.6 vorp

And MJ won many series with far worse help than Mo's 18 on 38% in the 09' ECF - MJ won many series with Pippen getting 15 on 33% and in that vicinity.
.

Manny98

09-15-2019, 05:06 PM

Dude has to be trolling :roll: :roll:

"Mini Curry" :roll: :roll:

superduper

09-15-2019, 05:19 PM

3ball

09-15-2019, 05:30 PM

.
MO.... WILLIAMS 09':....18/3/5.. 58.8 ts.. 115 ortg.. 17.2 PER.. 0.165 ws.. 2.3 bpm.. 3.1 vorp
KHRIS MIDDLETN 19':.. 18/5/3.. 55.5 ts.. 106 ortg.. 16.3 PER.. 0.122 ws.. 0.7 bpm.. 1.6 vorp

We're at a point where people talk about Mo Williams of all people like he's some sort of unstoppable offensive juggernaut close to all-time great status. Only on Insidehoops are people that insane, that far driven from reality.

^^^ Except no one said that - I'm taking great care to specify that he was much better than respected all-star Khris Middleton, who many people praised heavily this year - Mo was much BETTER than that guy.. That's being pretty specific, and in no way close to what you're imagining I'm saying (the bolded blue above)

You simply don't like what this implies (that he failed with a favored, 60-win, 1 seed that was supposed to win, just like Giannis did, Dirk in 07' and many other favored, 1-seeds that lost over the years), so you're exaggerating what I said.

It's weak.. :facepalm and low character.. :lol

scuzzy

09-15-2019, 05:32 PM

Zydrunas = mini Duncan

scuzzy

09-15-2019, 05:34 PM

JJ Hickson = mini Draymond

scuzzy

09-15-2019, 05:46 PM

Jamario Moon = mini Tayshaun

3ball

09-15-2019, 05:51 PM

Jamario Moon = mini Tayshaun
09' Mo was equal to 19' Khris Middleton, except a Middleton-level shooting impact is worth a lot more in 2009 when less guys were shooting like that, than 2019 when everyone and their mother is shooting a lot and pretty well.

So again, Mo was ahead of his time, and therefore had a "mini-curry" effect (21 more wins for the 09' Cavs - that's a bigger win increase than Lebron ever had) - but he admittedly wouldn't have this impact today when there's tons of "mini-curry's around..

At a minimum, we know that he produced much more for Lebron than Middleton produced for Giannis... both were heavy Vegas favorites that crashed.. Giannis got exposed by the Toronto defense, and Lebron got exposed as a reluctant scorer that labors to score a lot of points - so it's easier on your defense to let him dribble a lot and work hard to score every possession, than double him and get the ball moving.. Stan Van Gundy said this

scuzzy

09-15-2019, 05:53 PM

Mike Brown = mini Popovich

Plot twist

He was Pop's assistant

3ball

09-15-2019, 05:57 PM

Mike Brown = mini Popovich

Plot twist

He was Pop's assistant

09' Mo was equal to 19' Khris Middleton, except a Middleton-level shooting impact is worth a lot more in 2009 when less guys were shooting like that, than 2019 when everyone and their mother is shooting a lot and pretty well.

So again, Mo was ahead of his time, and therefore had a "mini-curry" effect (21 more wins for the 09' Cavs - that's a bigger win increase than Lebron ever had) - but he admittedly wouldn't have this impact today when there's tons of "mini-curry's around..

At a minimum, we know that he produced much more for Lebron than Middleton produced for Giannis... both were heavy Vegas favorites that crashed.. Giannis got exposed by the Toronto defense, and Lebron got exposed as a reluctant scorer that labors to score a lot of points - so it's easier on your defense to let him dribble a lot and work hard to score every possession, than double him and get the ball moving.. Stan Van Gundy said this

scuzzy

09-15-2019, 06:01 PM

09' Mo was equal to 19' Khris Middleton, except a Middleton-level shooting impact is worth a lot more in 2009 when less guys were shooting like that, than 2019 when everyone and their mother is shooting a lot and pretty well.

So again, Mo was ahead of his time, and therefore had a "mini-curry" effect (21 more wins for the 09' Cavs - that's a bigger win increase than Lebron ever had) - but he admittedly wouldn't have this impact today when there's tons of "mini-curry's around..

At a minimum, we know that he produced much more for Lebron than Middleton produced for Giannis... both were heavy Vegas favorites that crashed.. Giannis got exposed by the Toronto defense, and Lebron got exposed as a reluctant scorer that labors to score a lot of points - so it's easier on your defense to let him dribble a lot and work hard to score every possession, than double him and get the ball moving.. Stan Van Gundy said this
09' Mo was equal to 19' Khris Middleton, except a Middleton-level shooting impact is worth a lot more in 2009 when less guys were shooting like that, than 2019 when everyone and their mother is shooting a lot and pretty well.

So again, Mo was ahead of his time, and therefore had a "mini-curry" effect (21 more wins for the 09' Cavs - that's a bigger win increase than Lebron ever had) - but he admittedly wouldn't have this impact today when there's tons of "mini-curry's around..

At a minimum, we know that he produced much more for Lebron than Middleton produced for Giannis... both were heavy Vegas favorites that crashed.. Giannis got exposed by the Toronto defense, and Lebron got exposed as a reluctant scorer that labors to score a lot of points - so it's easier on your defense to let him dribble a lot and work hard to score every possession, than double him and get the ball moving.. Stan Van Gundy said this

LostCause

09-16-2019, 01:29 AM

If Mo "definitely" was an elite shooter, then shouldn't that translate to an elite scorer???

The ****? Lol

Seriously were you hacked? You were always bad but not THIS dumb

superduper

09-16-2019, 04:01 AM

The ****? Lol

Seriously were you hacked? You were always bad but not THIS dumb

Been a moron the year and a half I've been here

ILLsmak

09-16-2019, 04:16 AM

[QUOTE=Andrei89]If Mo Will is an elite shooter what does that make Klay Thompson?

Super Ultra Mega Elite?

Stop throwing the word

Gileraracer

09-16-2019, 04:39 AM

only reason people know that name is because of lebron. :oldlol:

You probably are one of these retarded Lebron stans who really believe this.

That's why nobody takes you retards seriously

DukeDelonte13

09-16-2019, 07:51 AM

damn, slayed

crazy how Cavs fell off so hard in 2011, compared to the 55 win Bulls with Pippen

Eh the cavs went in a totally different direction after the decision, hiring the worst coach in NBA history, roster gutted, season ending injuries, 0 hope, etc. I

DukeDelonte13

09-16-2019, 07:52 AM

And Mo was a a decent starting PG, not great or elite, but pretty decent. He was an underrated ball handler. Always choked in pressure situations though.

Hey Yo

09-16-2019, 10:36 AM

The ****? Lol

Seriously were you hacked? You were always bad but not THIS dumb
Alright then...... explain to me what an elite shooter is, why Mo is considered an elite shooter and give me some other past and present names as examples of elite shooters that averaged 13ppg or less for their career.

Ainosterhaspie

09-16-2019, 12:23 PM

Who led the NBA in 3-point makes per game in 2009?

I'll wait
Rashard Lewis had 2.8 per game.
Danny Granger had 2.7 per game.
Ray Allen had 2.5 per game.
Mo Williams had 2.3 per game.

So to answer your question, it wasn't Mo Williams.

Ainosterhaspie

09-16-2019, 12:29 PM

Alright then...... explain to me what an elite shooter is, why Mo is considered an elite shooter and give me some other past and present names as examples of elite shooters that averaged 13ppg or less for their career.
Kyle Korver career 9.9 ppg. Career high was 14.4. Only time he was above 13 ppg. An elite shooter can't get to elite or even high level scorer status if he can't create his own shot.

AirBonner

09-16-2019, 12:59 PM

Rashard Lewis had 2.8 per game.
Danny Granger had 2.7 per game.
Ray Allen had 2.5 per game.
Mo Williams had 2.3 per game.

So to answer your question, it wasn't Mo Williams.
Damn 3ball got bodied :eek:

Ainosterhaspie

09-16-2019, 01:04 PM

Why can't Lebron win with his 2nd option getting 18 on 38%?, when MJ won with much worse then that all the time? (see previous post)

What a fcking clown :oldlol:

It's one of the many reasons Lebron isn't on MJ's level.. he needs too much help to win
What are you talking about? He won two series in 2018 with his number 2 getting less than 18ppg. I don't feel like going through every series of LeBron's career but those aren't the only times that has happened.

The bigger problem is that you are using raw ppg. If you look at points per 100, there is only one time Jordan won a title with his number 2 scoring less through the playoffs than Mo did in 2009.

It's hilarious that we're comparing Mo Williams to Pippen completely ignoring the defensive side of the ball. I mean if Mo is better than Pippen offensively it's by the slimmest of margins and Pippen decimated Williams on the defensive end. He is comfortably better than Williams and it's a complete joke to claim otherwise.

SouBeachTalents

09-16-2019, 01:16 PM

You probably are one of these retarded Lebron stans who really believe this.

That's why nobody takes you retards seriously
This coming from the dude who said LeBron played with Baron Davis :lol

RRR3

09-16-2019, 01:55 PM

What are you talking about? He won two series in 2018 with his number 2 getting less than 18ppg. I don't feel like going through every series of LeBron's career but those aren't the only times that has happened.

The bigger problem is that you are using raw ppg. If you look at points per 100, there is only one time Jordan won a title with his number 2 scoring less through the playoffs than Mo did in 2009.

It's hilarious that we're comparing Mo Williams to Pippen completely ignoring the defensive side of the ball. I mean if Mo is better than Pippen offensively it's by the slimmest of margins and Pippen decimated Williams on the defensive end. He is comfortably better than Williams and it's a complete joke to claim otherwise.
Pippen was miles better than Mo on offense.

Ainosterhaspie

09-16-2019, 02:20 PM

Pippen was miles better than Mo on offense.
I don't disagree. Just not bothering to argue that point because it's not particularly meaningful. Even if we pretend they're equal or that Mo is slightly better, the massive defensive edge swallow up Mo's alleged offensive edge.

Hey Yo

09-16-2019, 02:43 PM

Kyle Korver career 9.9 ppg. Career high was 14.4. Only time he was above 13 ppg. An elite shooter can't get to elite or even high level scorer status if he can't create his own shot.
Korver was an elite 3pt shooter. That's what he is known for. Just like Curry's known as an elite 3pt shooter, the best.

Mo could create his own shot, but was far from an elite shooter. He shot a career 43% from the field and had a 53% career TS%.

Nothing Mo did in the NBA is considered elite.

Ainosterhaspie

09-16-2019, 02:54 PM

Korver was an elite 3pt shooter. That's what he is known for. Just like Curry's known as an elite 3pt shooter, the best.

Mo could create his own shot, but was far from an elite shooter. He shot a career 43% from the field and had a 53% career TS%.

Nothing Mo did in the NBA is considered elite.
I wasn't speaking to Mo's quality in any way with that post, just pointing out you can be an elite shooter without being an elite scorer.

RealSkipBayless

09-16-2019, 03:11 PM

Rashard Lewis had 2.8 per game.
Danny Granger had 2.7 per game.
Ray Allen had 2.5 per game.
Mo Williams had 2.3 per game.

So to answer your question, it wasn't Mo Williams.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

LAmbruh

09-16-2019, 03:12 PM

Rashard Lewis had 2.8 per game.
Danny Granger had 2.7 per game.
Ray Allen had 2.5 per game.
Mo Williams had 2.3 per game.

So to answer your question, it wasn't Mo Williams.
:yaohappy: :hammertime:

3ball

09-16-2019, 04:01 PM

Even if he was trash and spoonfed, he's definitely an elite shooter. Steve Kerr was an elite shooter and he didn't do what Mo did. (starting, getting almost 20).............. BUT Mo was always shitting the bed in the playoffs. If he could have continued that level of shooting in the playoffs Bron might have made the Finals in a couple of those years.

-Smak
Why is it okay for Pippen to average 15 ppg on 33-40% for a dozen different series, but Mo Williams is a horrible player for averaging 18 on 38% in the 09' ECF?

Ultimately, MJ won many times with less help than Mo's 09' ECF... pippen averaged 17.6 on 40.8% for the entire 96-98' playoffs, and he had horrific stats in the 89' cinderella run and the 96' Finals or 92' ECF (X-man destroying him)

And don't give me the defense argument because Cleveland was known for great defenses, sometimes better than the bulls depending on the year

RRR3

09-16-2019, 04:03 PM

Pippen had higher BPMs than Jordan in the playoffs in two out of the 3 playoff runs from 96-98.

LostCause

09-16-2019, 04:05 PM

Alright then...... explain to me what an elite shooter is, why Mo is considered an elite shooter and give me some other past and present names as examples of elite shooters that averaged 13ppg or less for their career.

An elite shooter is an elite shooter. Means they're really good at shooting the basketball. This usually pertains to 3-pt shooting

An elite scorer is someone good at scoring a lot of points or getting their own shots

An elite shooter CAN be an elite scorer, but they aren't the same

Steve Kerr is an elite shooter. He's not an elite scorer
Craig Hodges, Kyle Korver, Dell Curry, Joe Harris etc.
Elite shooters. Not elite scorers

How do you not know this shit? :biggums:

I don't have to explain anything about Mo, btw. My contention was about you equating an elite shooter to being an elite scorer, when they aren't one in the same

Turbo Slayer

09-16-2019, 04:10 PM

Bran is top 3 GOAT #StriveForGreatness He had to carry. LeGOAT too strong!:lebronamazed:

Turbo Slayer

09-16-2019, 04:11 PM

Why is it okay for Pippen to average 15 ppg on 33-40% for a dozen different series, but Mo Williams is a horrible player for averaging 18 on 38% in the 09' ECF?

Ultimately, MJ won many times with less help than Mo's 09' ECF... pippen averaged 17.6 on 40.8% for the entire 96-98' playoffs, and he had horrific stats in the 89' cinderella run and the 96' Finals or 92' ECF (X-man destroying him)

And don't give me the defense argument because Cleveland was known for great defenses, sometimes better than the bulls depending on the year LeGOAT your argument is invalid. Stop hating on my boi Bran:lebronamazed:

Turbo Slayer

09-16-2019, 04:12 PM

Pippen had higher BPMs than Jordan in the playoffs in two out of the 3 playoff runs from 96-98. Boom.

Turbo Slayer

09-16-2019, 04:13 PM

:roll:
:roll: :roll: :roll:

kuniva_dAMiGhTy

09-16-2019, 04:14 PM

Turbo Slayer

09-16-2019, 04:16 PM

Steve Kerr was an elite shooter

Toni Kukoc was an elite shooter this

ArbitraryWater

09-16-2019, 04:17 PM

Rashard Lewis had 2.8 per game.
Danny Granger had 2.7 per game.
Ray Allen had 2.5 per game.
Mo Williams had 2.3 per game.

So to answer your question, it wasn't Mo Williams.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

SouBeachTalents

09-16-2019, 04:24 PM

Why is it okay for Pippen to average 15 ppg on 33-40% for a dozen different series, but Mo Williams is a horrible player for averaging 18 on 38% in the 09' ECF?

Ultimately, MJ won many times with less help than Mo's 09' ECF... pippen averaged 17.6 on 40.8% for the entire 96-98' playoffs, and he had horrific stats in the 89' cinderella run and the 96' Finals or 92' ECF (X-man destroying him)

And don't give me the defense argument because Cleveland was known for great defenses, sometimes better than the bulls depending on the year
Yeah, don't give me the defense argument when you're comparing Scottie Pippen to Mo Williams

Next, don't give me the rebounding argument when comparing Dennis Rodman to Anderson Varejao :oldlol:

Turbo Slayer

09-16-2019, 04:25 PM

1.MJ played on a shortened 3pt line. No doubt about it.

2.MJ never faced a worthy adversary. Magic Johnson? Nah, that Lakers team was falling into shambles. Clyde Drexler? Nah, he wasn't on the line of Bran Bran's opponents. Charles Barkley? Karl Malone? John Stockton? Come on.

TRUTH: HE DUCKED HAKEEM. HE NEVER FACED A WORTHY ADVERSARY.

3. He took 18 months of three-peats. HE HAD IT EASY.

4. HE PLAYED WITH THE MOST ACCURATE 3pter in history.

5.1990's DEFENSES WASNT THAT GOOD.

FACTS: MJ PLAYED IN A WEAK ERA.

CONCLUSION: LEBRON THE GOATS AND Michael is #3 on my list.

#1 BRON
#2 KAJ
#3 MJ

Turbo Slayer

09-16-2019, 04:26 PM

ArbitraryWater

09-16-2019, 04:27 PM

Turbo Slayer

09-16-2019, 04:28 PM

3ball

09-16-2019, 04:38 PM

Pippen had higher BPMs than Jordan in the playoffs in two out of the 3 playoff runs from 96-98.

96-98' Playoffs

JORDAN:. 31.4.. 6.0.. 4.1.. 45.9 fg.. 118 ortg.. 27.3 PER.. 0.268 ws.. 6.6 OBPM.. 7.6 BPM.. 5.9 vorp
PIPPEN:.. 17.6.. 7.4.. 5.1.. 40.8 fg.. 109 ortg.. 19.0 PER.. 0.169 ws.. 3.3 OBPM.. 7.1 BPM.. 5.4 vorp

And stop posting debunked shit

The makers of BPM state that DBPM isn't reliable, this rendering BPM useless:

[INDENT][I]There are limitations on all box score stats

Hey Yo

09-16-2019, 05:05 PM

An elite shooter is an elite shooter. Means they're really good at shooting the basketball. This usually pertains to 3-pt shooting

An elite scorer is someone good at scoring a lot of points or getting their own shots

An elite shooter CAN be an elite scorer, but they aren't the same

Steve Kerr is an elite shooter. He's not an elite scorer
Craig Hodges, Kyle Korver, Dell Curry, Joe Harris etc.
Elite shooters. Not elite scorers

How do you not know this shit? :biggums:

I don't have to explain anything about Mo, btw. My contention was about you equating an elite shooter to being an elite scorer, when they aren't one in the same
Alllllllllll....... so now goalpost moves to "an elite shooter usually pertains to 3pt shooting"

It's quite obvious 3ball wasn't talking about just 3pt shooting. Calling someone an elite shooter is basically saying he's also an elite scorer also.

If you are an elite shooter, then the coach finds you a place in the starting line-up and finds ways to get you 18 or so FGA a game. If you're just an elite 3pt shooter who can't do pretty much anything else than shoot 3's, then yeah..... you're likely not going to be a starter or get that many FGA per game.

If your going to call 3pt specialists elite shooters, then call them 3pt specialists cause that's exactly what they are. Calling a player an elite shooter implies he's dangerous from anywhere inside 27 feet. Haven't been many of those players throughout history.

Calling Mo Williams an elite while referring to any aspect of basketball is laughable.

RRR3

09-16-2019, 05:16 PM

3ball

09-16-2019, 05:31 PM

Yeah, don't give me the defense argument when you're comparing Scottie Pippen to Mo Williams

Next, don't give me the rebounding argument when comparing Dennis Rodman to Anderson Varejao

Defense is a team effort and you guys only talk about defense when it comes to pippen (because his offense sucks so much)

You sit there and act like Lebron could 3-peat with his 2nd option getting 17 on 41% - he simply isn't the kind of quick, aggressive scorer to make up the shortfall, and the teamwork that his skillset yields is woefully insufficient to win without great firepower from the 2nd option

But carry on and pretend Lebron could win with a non-shooting ball handler like Pippen ... :roll: :roll: :roll:... :yaohappy:.... G....T .... F.....O

SouBeachTalents

09-16-2019, 05:44 PM

Defense is a team effort and you guys only talk about defense when it comes to pippen (because his offense sucks so much)

You sit there and act like Lebron could 3-peat with his 2nd option getting 17 on 41% - he simply isn't the kind of quick, aggressive scorer to make up the shortfall, and the teamwork that his skillset yields is woefully insufficient to win without great firepower from the 2nd option

But carry on and pretend Lebron could win with a non-shooting ball handler like Pippen ... :roll: :roll: :roll:... :yaohappy:.... G....T .... F.....O
Pippen's offense sucks so much, yet even by your own admission he put up identical numbers to Mo Williams, aka the same player you call mini-Curry :oldlol:

LeBron & Pippen are a terrible fit, but Jordan doesn't win jack shit with Mo Williams as his teams 2nd best player

3ball

09-16-2019, 06:04 PM

Pippen's offense sucks so much, yet even by your own admission he put up identical numbers to Mo Williams,

Neither were great 2nd options, but at least MJ could still beat a great team when his 2nd option stunk it up:

09' Mo Will ECF:.ni 18/3/4.. 50.5 ts.. 102 ORtg.. lost to #4 SRS (2 all-stars)
89' Pippen 1st Rd:. 15/9/4.. 51.0 ts.. 102 ORtg.. beat 'o #1 SRS (3 all-stars*)

* plus 20/5/5 Ron Harper

aka the same player you call mini-Curry :oldlol:

I never said Mo Williams was great - I just said he was a lot better than 89' Pippen

09' Mo Will RS:. 18/3/4.. 58.8 ts.. 115 ORtg.. 17.1 PER.. 0.165 ws/48.. 2.3 bpm.. 3.1 vorp
89' Pippen RS:.. 14/6/4.. 52.4 ts.. 102 ORtg.. 14.9 PER.. 0.080 ws/48.. 1.4 bpm.. 2.1 vorp

He's also easily better than Khris Middleton:

MO.... WILLIAMS....:. 18/3/5.. 58.8 ts.. 115 ortg.. 17.2 PER.. 0.165 ws.. 2.3 bpm.. 3.1 vorp
CHRIS MIDDLETON:. 18/5/3.. 55.5 ts.. 106 ortg.. 16.3 PER.. 0.122 ws.. 0.7 bpm.. 1.6 vorp

but Jordan doesn't win jack shit with Mo Williams as his teams 2nd best player

He's beating Dwight in 09', that's for sure

LeBron & Pippen are a terrible fit

So you concede that Lebron isn't good enough to win with Pippen

And aren't you ashamed thay ONLY shooters excel alongside Lebron's ball-dominant skillset?... which puts a ceiling on his teams and brand of ball?...

How is a spot-up-shooter style going to develop teammates or a team?.. oh, I know - it can't, so Lebron must team-hop for ready-made stars and teams.. :facepalm
.

LostCause

09-16-2019, 06:25 PM

Alllllllllll....... so now goalpost moves to "an elite shooter usually pertains to 3pt shooting"

Didn't move any goalposts. Just stated the fact that when folks speak of elite shooters, they usually refer to 3pt shooter. If you find this to be inaccurate, show me where anyone would say Steve Kerr or Kyle Korver aren't "elite shooters". This is basic shit

Calling someone an elite shooter is basically saying he's also an elite scorer also.

Absolutely not.

If you are an elite shooter, then the coach finds you a place in the starting line-up and finds ways to get you 18 or so FGA a game

Untrue. See Korver, Calderon, etc.

If your going to call 3pt specialists elite shooters, then call them 3pt specialists cause that's exactly what they are. Calling a player an elite shooter implies he's dangerous from anywhere inside 27 feet. Haven't been many of those players throughout history.

I've already defined it and it's common knowledge. "3pt specialists" are elite shooters. You seem to be failing to understand the overlap and contrast in this discussion

Hey Yo

09-17-2019, 10:50 AM

Didn't move any goalposts. Just stated the fact that when folks speak of elite shooters, they usually refer to 3pt shooter. If you find this to be inaccurate, show me where anyone would say Steve Kerr or Kyle Korver aren't "elite shooters". This is basic shit
The correct term for those 2 players are "3pt specialists" THAT IS A FACT!! Nobody used the term "elite shooter" before the term 3pt specialist was used to describe Kerr etc...

You can't be described as an elite shooter wirth your career high in FGA per game is 7.

Untrue. See Korver, Calderon, etc.
Who the hell considers Jose Calderon an elite shooter?? And you called me dumb?? He avg. 2.5 3PA for his career. How is he an elite shooter if the term pertains mainly to 3PT shooters? You're all over the place.

When people hear Korver's name they think of the 3pt shot. Hence why he's always been considered a 3pt specialist.

I've already defined it and it's common knowledge. "3pt specialists" are elite shooters. You seem to be failing to understand the overlap and contrast in this discussion
3pt specialists are just that. They specialize in the 3pt shot.

An elite shooter who is someone who you can rely on from just about anywhere on the court. Bird, Dirk, KD, MJ (minus the 3pt shot) etc..etc... Those guys have shown they'e deadly from just about anywhere on the court. The guys who regularly avg. 20+ for a season.

Huge difference between a 3pt specialist and an elite shooter. Not sure why there's even an argument about this.

LostCause

09-17-2019, 02:25 PM

Not even worth responding to all that. Simple question

Can you provide evidence of anyone saying Korver is NOT an elite shooter? You and I both know I can easily find Korver being referred to as an elite shooter, but I’ll concede the discussion immediately if you find where anyone reputable says Korver or Kerr ARENT elite shooters

You’re being intellectually dishonest here and it’s ridiculous

LostCause

09-17-2019, 02:48 PM

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13822186&postcount=15

Since NBA.com presents facts:

Traded to the Cavs last season, Korver could have gone to any number of teams last summer as a free agent. He’s an elite shooter, a career 43.1 percent marksman on 3-pointers.
https://www.nba.com/article/2017/10/09/morning-tip-cleveland-cavaliers-full-of-former-lebron-james-rivals

Also
https://www.google.com/search?&q=%22elite+shooter%22++korver

Good luck

ImKobe

09-17-2019, 02:50 PM

The correct term for those 2 players are "3pt specialists" THAT IS A FACT!! Nobody used the term "elite shooter" before the term 3pt specialist was used to describe Kerr etc...

You can't be described as an elite shooter wirth your career high in FGA per game is 7.

Who the hell considers Jose Calderon an elite shooter?? And you called me dumb?? He avg. 2.5 3PA for his career. How is he an elite shooter if the term pertains mainly to 3PT shooters? You're all over the place.

When people hear Korver's name they think of the 3pt shot. Hence why he's always been considered a 3pt specialist.

3pt specialists are just that. They specialize in the 3pt shot.

An elite shooter who is someone who you can rely on from just about anywhere on the court. Bird, Dirk, KD, MJ (minus the 3pt shot) etc..etc... Those guys have shown they'e deadly from just about anywhere on the court. The guys who regularly avg. 20+ for a season.

Huge difference between a 3pt specialist and an elite shooter. Not sure why there's even an argument about this.

You're a ****ing moron.

Korver is 4th all-time in 3s made, 9th in 3-point percentage, top 20 in FT% and has been consistently around 40-45% from mid-range for his career. That's an elite shooter. You think someone who's consistently 40-45% from three and 85-90% from the FT line for his whole career is not a capable shooter from mid-range?

According to your logic, Steph Curry is not an elite shooter because he mostly shoots 3s. Korver mostly shoots long 2s and 3s and he's 44.9% on long 2s and 42.9% from 3 for his career. Apparently that does not make him an elite shooter.

kuniva_dAMiGhTy

09-17-2019, 02:57 PM

Hey yo: Well technically Shaq was a good shooter. I mean REAL GOOD. Just look at his scoring man!

Admit you were wrong and move on. Making 3ball look like Galileo over here.

72-10

09-18-2019, 02:50 AM

Mo Williams could score. Mo Williams could create his own shot. The Mo Williams I recall, however, gave up a lot of points on defense.

RoseCity07

09-18-2019, 03:21 AM

I see him in a simlar light as Jason Terry. Terry actually won a ring though. So there's that.

72-10

09-18-2019, 03:22 AM

Terry's a much better three point shooter, got to hive him that. Terry aint creatin his shot like Mo, though.

34-24 Footwork

09-18-2019, 05:53 AM

Hey yo: Well technically Shaq was a good shooter. I mean REAL GOOD. Just look at his scoring man!

Admit you were wrong and move on. Making 3ball look like Galileo over here.

It's not that...

It's the fact that we allow nerds to hijack basketball discussion. They're both responding to each other with basketball reference in the next tab over until it's painfully obvious that one of them doesn't watch basketball.

That's why you troll most lebron stans, honestly. Imagine thinking that Kyle Korver isn't an elite shooter just to prop up your hero.

There's no bottom for these clowns. Stop debating them.

Hey Yo

09-18-2019, 10:43 AM

dbl post

FireDavidKahn

09-18-2019, 10:58 AM

Time to derail this thread with an irrelevant stat that will annoy the hell out of 3ball.

Nathan The Chamberlain Walker
@bbstats
In the 2007 playoffs, the Cavs were:

+4.7 per 100 with LeBron (893 minutes)
-18.3 per 100 without LeBron (77 minutes)

Cavs literally were 23 net points better with LeBron on the floor vs. off.

Hey Yo

09-18-2019, 11:11 AM

[QUOTE=LostCause]Not even worth responding to all that. Simple question

Can you provide evidence of anyone saying Korver is NOT an elite shooter? You and I both know I can easily find Korver being referred to as an elite shooter, but I

Hey Yo

09-18-2019, 11:22 AM

[QUOTE=LostCause]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13822186&postcount=15

[I]Since NBA.com presents facts:

Traded to the Cavs last season, Korver could have gone to any number of teams last summer as a free agent. [B]He

Hey Yo

09-18-2019, 11:38 AM

You're a ****ing moron.

Korver is 4th all-time in 3s made, 9th in 3-point percentage, top 20 in FT% and has been consistently around 40-45% from mid-range for his career. That's an elite shooter. You think someone who's consistently 40-45% from three and 85-90% from the FT line for his whole career is not a capable shooter from mid-range?

According to your logic, Steph Curry is not an elite shooter because he mostly shoots 3s. Korver mostly shoots long 2s and 3s and he's 44.9% on long 2s and 42.9% from 3 for his career. Apparently that does not make him an elite shooter.
% of shots taken from mid-range for his career = .072 which isn't nearly enough to label him anything from mid-range. He a long 2 / 3pt shooter. That's his label.

Curry's in the same boat. He hasn't / doesn't take enough mid-range to label him one way or the other He's an elite "3pt shooter" cause that's what he does. He doesn't take enough mid-range to call him an elite shooter. What he does needs a specification. People want to call him the greatest shooter of all time but he's never shown enough skill from other areas of the floor (besides 3pt range) to call him the best. Neither Curry or Korver belong in the same category as Dirk, or KD or Bird or MJ (except 3pt shooting) when it comes to calling a player an elite shooter.

superduper

09-18-2019, 11:43 AM

Bran is the GOAT shooter wish I was trolling.

LostCause

09-18-2019, 09:41 PM

Yep.... an elite shooter in which they immediately posted his 3pt% right after that. He's a 3pt specialist. If was a true elite shooter, then they would have posted his career FG% but for some reason they didn't. Hmmmmmm wonder why??

There's no value in this rebuttable, because it's extremely simple to post many references where they don't mention his 3PT% (As if citing that disqualifies him. You can find the exact same thing said about Curry and citing his 3-pt percentage). I'm sure you knew that, in fact I posted a google search with tons of them.

Learn to take the logical next step so you don't do this shit again

Is he in the same class as MJ as a shooter?

Jordan is a scorer

Down by 1 with the last shot, you taking Korver over Dirk or KD or MJ??? Do you consider those 3 as elite shooters along with Korver?

Dirk and MJ are known for being clutch. Korver not as much. Steve Kerr is pretty clutch though and seeing as MJ actually gave the ball to him to win a championship game, I think that's pretty clear evidence he considers him capable

LOL @ calling that NBA.com opinion as fact. What one's opinion is about a players ability isn't the same as what millions saw transpire in a game. Nice try though.

Are you dense? You're the one that called NBA.com factual. Literally provided your post saying it. Similarly I could say "One persons opinion on what transpired in a game" isn't factual but like I said, you can't take the logical next step to see your own hypocrisy. Besides, I already accounted for you trying to isolate these things. Which is why I provided a google search with THOUSANDS of results calling Korver an "Elite Shooter"

I asked you to do one simple thing. Out of courtesy I responded to this post where you clearly avoided doing it, but now I'll ask again. I've provided overwhelming evidence of many analysts/writers/coaches referring to Korver as an Elite Shooter. Now you show me some where they say he's not one
Are you dense?