Does Kobe modeling his game on MJ and being successful

[Vino24]

Hurt MJ

[Turbo Slayer]

MJ is the goat i have LBJ at #3 and Kobe at #12.

No.

[Vino24]

MJ is the goat i have LBJ at #3 and Kobe at #12.

No.
Here is the thing though. True greatness is to be distinguished. Kobe did the 3peat and LeBron has the stats. MJ

[Turbo Slayer]

[QUOTE=Vino24]Here is the thing though. True greatness is to be distinguished. Kobe did the 3peat and LeBron has the stats. MJ

[guy]

[QUOTE=Vino24]Here is the thing though. True greatness is to be distinguished. Kobe did the 3peat and LeBron has the stats. MJ

[Haymaker]

Ummm... who's gonna tell him?

[QUOTE=Vino24]Here is the thing though. True greatness is to be distinguished. Kobe did the 3peat and LeBron has the stats. [B]MJ

[3ball]

Kobe 3peated in a tougher era to which there were actual tough perimeter players



Kobe 3-peated as 2nd fiddle and played much worse against the same comp:



JORDAN VS. MILLER 98' ECF.......... 30 on 47%
BRYANT VS. MILLER 00' FINALS..... 15 on 35%

JORDAN VS. KITTLES 98' 1ST RD.... 36 on 53%
BRYANT. VS. KITTLES 02' FINALS... 26 on 51%


:eek: ... :dancin:

[RRR3]

3ball rounding down stats as usual. What a liar.

[3ball]

3ball rounding down stats as usual. What a liar.
JORDAN VS. MILLER 98' ECF........... 30 on 47%
BRYANT' VS. MILLER 00' FINALS..... 16 on 35%

JORDAN VS. KITTLES 98' 1ST RD.... 36 on 53%
BRYANT. VS. KITTLES' 02' FINALS... 26 on 51%


Happy now?

[RRR3]

JORDAN VS. MILLER 98' ECF........... 30 on 47%
BRYANT' VS. MILLER 00' FINALS..... 16 on 35%

JORDAN VS. KITTLES 98' 1ST RD.... 36 on 53%
BRYANT. VS. KITTLES' 02' FINALS... 26 on 51%


Happy now?
Nope. You’re still rounding down his FG%. Liar.

[3ball]

[QUOTE=RRR3]Nope. You

[RRR3]

JORDAN VS. MILLER 98' ECF........... 30 on 47%
BRYANT' VS. MILLER 00' FINALS..... 16 on 36%

JORDAN VS. KITTLES 98' 1ST RD.... 36 on 53%
BRYANT. VS. KITTLES' 02' FINALS... 26 on 52%


Happy now?
I just meant for the 2000 finals. His fg% for 2002 was 51.4% so it wouldn’t round up. However I suspect you fudged the MJ stats to make him look better. I know your MO

[3ball]

[QUOTE=RRR3]I just meant for the 2000 finals. His fg% for 2002 was 51.4% so it wouldn

[Doranku]

I just meant for the 2000 finals. His fg% for 2002 was 51.4% so it wouldn’t round up. However I suspect you fudged the MJ stats to make him look better. I know your MO

Kobe averaged 27 a game against the Nets, I don't know why that extra point is so hard for 3ball to accept. :lol Not sure why he's even comparing those Nets teams, the '98 team didn't have Kenyon Martin or Jason Kidd who were far and away the two best players on the '02 team.

Just realized he ****ed up MJ's numbers too... where do you get your stats from bro? MJ averaged 32 a game against the Pacers.

[ImKobe]

Kobe 3-peated as 2nd fiddle and played much worse against the same comp:



JORDAN VS. MILLER 98' ECF.......... 30 on 47%
BRYANT VS. MILLER 00' FINALS..... 15 on 35%

JORDAN VS. KITTLES 98' 1ST RD.... 36 on 53%
BRYANT. VS. KITTLES 02' FINALS... 26 on 51%


:eek: ... :dancin:

Kobe was injured in the 2000 Finals but you already knew that :rolleyes:


'98 Nets were 21st on defense so that's not much of an accomplishment either, 2002 Nets had Kidd and Kenyon Martin. Kobe in the 2002 Finals averaged 27/6/5 on 62%TS against a 1st ranked defense.


I just meant for the 2000 finals. His fg% for 2002 was 51.4% so it wouldn’t round up. However I suspect you fudged the MJ stats to make him look better. I know your MO


He actually messed up, Jordan averaged 31.7 ppg on 46.7%FG in the 1998 ECF.

[ImKobe]

But let's use 3Ball's logic.

Jordan averaged 27/10/5 on 50.6%TS against Steve Smith in the 1997 ECSF

Kobe averaged 25/4/8 on 56.5%TS in 2001 WCQF against Steve Smith.

"much worse" as "2nd fiddle" "against the same comp"

this is the same guy who uses a series Kobe was injured in, and the same guy who thinks the 1998 Nets are the same as the 2002 Nets.

[3ball]

But let's use 3Ball's logic.

Jordan averaged 27/10/5 on 50.6%TS against Steve Smith in the 1997 ECSF

Kobe averaged 25/4/8 on 56.5%TS in 2001 WCQF against Steve Smith.

"much worse" as "2nd fiddle" "against the same comp"

this is the same guy who uses a series Kobe was injured in, and the same guy who thinks the 1998 Nets are the same as the 2002 Nets.
Another example, nice find - that was literally the worst series of MJ's career and it still matches kobe's

Ultimately, old MJ played against all the same guys that prime Kobe did, and generally did a lot better against them then Kobe - MJ did a lot better against Kittles and Miller, and about the same or a little worse against Smith

And MJ used to destroy Ray Allen in 1998 - Kobe never dominated Ray like this:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PCOJQOMEJ4Y

[ImKobe]

Another example, nice find - that was literally the worst series of MJ's career and it still matches kobe's

Ultimately, old MJ played against all the same guys that prime Kobe did, and generally did a lot better against them then Kobe - MJ did a lot better against Kittles and Miller, and about the same or a little worse against Smith

And MJ used to destroy Ray Allen in 1998 - Kobe never do it Nate's Ray like this:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PCOJQOMEJ4Y

Kobe was in his prime at age 21-22? I guess Jordan was in his prime when he went 1 - 9 in the Playoffs without Pippen :( .

[Turbo Slayer]

Kobe was in his prime at age 21-22? I guess Jordan was in his prime when he went 1 - 9 in the Playoffs without Pippen :( .

lol

Kobe stan vs MJ stan this gonna be fun.

''pops popcorn''

:kobe:

[3ball]

Kobe was in his prime at age 21-22? I guess Jordan was in his prime when he went 1 - 9 in the Playoffs without Pippen :( .


22-year Kobe vs. lightweight Reggie Miller - 15/5/4 on 36%
22-year Jordan vs. DPOY. Sidney Moncrief - 29/6/9 on 47%

[SouBeachTalents]

22-year Kobe vs. lightweight Reggie Miller - 15/5/4 on 36%
22-year Jordan vs. DPOY. Sidney Moncrief - 29/6/9 on 47%
22 year old Kobe: championship
22 year old Jordan: first round L

[Turbo Slayer]

22 year old Kobe: championship
22 year old Jordan: first round L :roll:

[Vino24]

22 year old Kobe: championship
22 year old Jordan: first round L
Kobe sacrificed stats to win the chip. Kobe>>Stat sheet Ordan :cheers:

[3ball]

22 year old Kobe: championship
22 year old Jordan: first round L
Help:

22-yr Kobe - 40 ppg Shaq

22-yr MJ - 20 ppg Cokeridge

[Vino24]

Help:

22-yr Kobe - 40 ppg Shaq

22-yr MJ - 20 ppg Cokeridge
plus gervin and daily putting up prime Pippen numbers :cheers:

[RRR3]

22 year old Kobe: championship
22 year old Jordan: first round L
:roll:

[RRR3]

Kobe once scored 42 points on 15-22 against PRIME Ray Allen.


“He never destroyed him” doe

[3ball]

plus gervin and daily putting up prime Pippen numbers :cheers:
Gervin and Dailey didn't play in the 86' playoffs (3 total minutes)

Jordan's help against the goat Celtics was Woolridge and 12 ppg Corzine, yet the 8-seeded bulls played the Celts closer than Lebron's 2 seed played the old spurs in 14'

[3ball]

[QUOTE=RRR3]Kobe once scored 42 points on 15-22 against PRIME Ray Allen.

[RRR3]

35-year Kobe?

MJ did that to Ray at 35-years old with hand-checking

It's hard to imagine what 25-year MJ would do without hand-checking.. yikes.. :facepalm
Kobe put up 41 on 16/29 against Ray when he was 32. And Kobe started playing at 18 unlike MJ.

[scuzzy]

35-year Kobe?

MJ did that to Ray at 35-years old with hand-checking

It's hard to imagine what 25-year MJ would do without hand-checking.. yikes.. :facepalm
imagine haven't watched ball in so long that you don't even know hand checking still exists (on every possession) :oldlol:

[RRR3]

Gervin and Dailey didn't play in the 86' playoffs (3 total minutes)

Jordan's help against the goat Celtics was Woolridge and 12 ppg Corzine, yet the 8-seeded bulls played the Celts closer than Lebron's 2 seed played the old spurs in 14'
How did they play them closer when they got swept and the Heat took a game? :biggums:

[3ball]

How did they play them closer when they got swept and the Heat took a game? :biggums:
Team PPG

14' Spurs... 105.6
14' Heat ...... 91.6
_________________
Difference -14.0


86' Celts - 126.7
86' Bulls - 113.0
_________________
Difference - 13.7


Team ORtg

14' Spurs... 120.8
14' Heat..... 104.8
__________________
Difference - 16.0


86' Celts - 121.4
86' Bulls - 108.3
________________
Difference - 13.1



The Heat's margins of defeat were Finals records

[AirBonner]

Team PPG

14' Spurs... 105.6
14' Heat ...... 91.6
_________________
Difference -14.0


86' Celts - 126.7
86' Bulls - 113.0
_________________
Difference - 13.7


Team ORtg

14' Spurs... 120.8
14' Heat..... 104.8
__________________
Difference - 16.0


86' Celts - 121.4
86' Bulls - 108.3
________________
Difference - 13.1




The Heat's margins of defeat were Finals records

What was the Bulls margin of defeat in game 4?

[Uncle Drew]

[QUOTE=Vino24]Hurt MJ

[ImKobe]

22-year Kobe vs. lightweight Reggie Miller - 15/5/4 on 36%
22-year Jordan vs. DPOY. Sidney Moncrief - 29/6/9 on 47%

You keep using the 2000 Finals averages (where Kobe was 21 and not 22), a series where Kobe had to leave a game in the first quarter and returned after only missing basically 2 games with an injury that sidelines players for weeks to win a road Finals game by himself in OT.

Why can't you get your Jordan stats right, btw? He averaged 29/6/9 on 43.6%FG.

So 22 y.o MJ averaged 29/6/9 on ~44%FG in a first round loss against a defense with a 103.6 DRtg.

22 y.o Kobe averaged 32/7/6 on 49.2%FG while going 11 - 0 against the Western Conference. All 3 teams won 50+ games and had a considerably better DRtg than the 1985 Bucks.

2001 POR - 101.8 DRtg - vs Pippen - 25/4/8 48%FG
2001 SAC - 99.6 DRtg - 35/9/4 48%FG
2001 SAS - 98.0 DRtg - 33/7/7 51%FG

If only Kobe had guys like Pippen, Grant and Armstrong during his prime and not just role players at his peak and later Pau Gasol and Lamar Odom in his late 20s. Either way you know my stance on MJ being the GOAT so you don't have to write a long essay on Jordan's first 3-Peat.

[34-24 Footwork]

Ummm... who's gonna tell him?

Lol. This is why the nerds who don't watch basketball should stick to basketball-reference and stats.

This is what happens when one of these nerdbirds go off script :lol

[sdot_thadon]

[QUOTE=guy]True. 2 threepeats with a finals MVP in all of them and having at least twice as many as everybody else isn

[superduper]

Matter of fact it does. More so, it shows how mainstream and easy to copy Dad Killer's game was. It shows anyone can do that, that DKs game was nothing special.

This has literally got to be the dumbest post in ISH history :oldlol:

[AirBonner]

This has literally got to be the dumbest post in ISH history :oldlol:
I feel like you would be taken seriously around here if you had an Embiid avatar

[superduper]

I feel like you would be taken seriously around here if you had an Embiid avatar

Reply back on your Uncle Drew alt

[AirBonner]

Reply back on your Uncle Drew alt
That

[superduper]

[QUOTE=AirBonner]That

[LAmbruh]

Imagine being a brick stain in 2019 :oldlol: :lol :hammerhead:

[Hey Yo]

Another example, nice find - that was literally the worst series of MJ's career and it still matches kobe's

Ultimately, old MJ played against all the same guys that prime Kobe did, and generally did a lot better against them then Kobe - MJ did a lot better against Kittles and Miller, and about the same or a little worse against Smith

And MJ used to destroy Ray Allen in 1998 - Kobe never dominated Ray like this:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PCOJQOMEJ4Y
His 1997 ECF against Miami was worse.

shot 38% from the field and a 47 TS%, yet Bulls still had no trouble... winning the series 4-1.

What a shit offensive era.

[guy]

I'd imagine 2 3peats, bridged by a back to back where you're the most important player in all of them has that covered.......

If you

[sdot_thadon]

[QUOTE=guy]If you

[guy]

The post you replied to didn't say what you took from it, calm down. I read MJ's resume is not unique in either regard, and that's the truth. Others have 3peats and others have insane statistics. Where in that post did you get Mj doesn't compare to lebron statistically? Seriously, chill out fella

Okay...no one is not calm here. I didn't curse or insult anyone so I'm not sure where that is coming from.

I may have misread the Lebron part. The Kobe thing? If someone wanted to bring up Bill Russell or Shaq to say Jordan 3-peating isn't unique, that makes some sense. I would just say in response to Russell that Jordan did it in the modern era and in response to Shaq I would say Jordan did it twice. But to bring up Kobe, on top of doing it twice, Jordan's importance was just so much more significant its kind of a ridiculous comparison.

[3ball]

Okay...no one is not calm here. I didn't curse or insult anyone so I'm not sure where that is coming from.

I may have misread the Lebron part. The Kobe thing? If someone wanted to bring up Bill Russell or Shaq to say Jordan 3-peating isn't unique, that makes some sense. I would just say in response to Russell that Jordan did it in the modern era and in response to Shaq I would say Jordan did it twice. But to bring up Kobe, on top of doing it twice, Jordan's importance was just so much more significant its kind of a ridiculous comparison.


That's why MJ is goat - 6 rings as "the man" in the modern era (the most winning in the modern era as "the man")

2nd place only has 3 rings as "the man", so the goat won twice as much as "the man" than anyone else did.. and that's how it's supposed to be for the goat

[sdot_thadon]

Okay...no one is not calm here. I didn't curse or insult anyone so I'm not sure where that is coming from.

I may have misread the Lebron part. The Kobe thing? If someone wanted to bring up Bill Russell or Shaq to say Jordan 3-peating isn't unique, that makes some sense. I would just say in response to Russell that Jordan did it in the modern era and in response to Shaq I would say Jordan did it twice. But to bring up Kobe, on top of doing it twice, Jordan's importance was just so much more significant its kind of a ridiculous comparison.
You did misread and get defensive over what you misread. It's a pattern here....

About this whole "modern era" excuse, what exactly earns this separate distinction for Mj that he's "saved" from having to face Russell's clearly better accomplishments? Is it because it's the past? Rule changes? Training and medicine? Evolution of the game? Philosophy? Exposure?

All those things in turn apply to MJ's era compared to this one as well. So why is the 90s considered the modern era when the game has changed just as much from the 60s to the 90s as it has from the 90s to now? Doesn't quite pass the smell test in historical debates.

[egokiller]

That's why MJ is goat - 6 rings as "the man" in the modern era (the most winning in the modern era as "the man")

2nd place only has 3 rings as "the man", so the goat won twice as much as "the man" than anyone else did.. and that's how it's supposed to be for the goat

2 rings as the man + a 3 peat as a side kick only losing twice in the finals with more difficult routes to the finals > 3 rings and 6 losses with easy trips to the finals.:applause: