Best help that Durant, Lebron, Kobe, Bird, Magic, and MJ lost with (for reference)

[3ball]

1) Lebron 17' Finals - Kyrie 29 ppg
2) Lebron 11' Finals - Wade 27 ppg
3) Bryant 04' .Finals - Shaq 27 ppg
4) Magic 81' 1st Rd - Kareem 27 ppg
5) L Bird. 88' ..ECF.. - McHale 27 ppg
6) Durant 12' Finals - Westbrook 27 ppg

Jordan 85' 1st Rd - Woolridge 21 ppg (rookie yr)
Jordan 95' ECSF.. - Pippen 19 ppg (baseball yr)
Jordan 90'. ECF... - Pippen 16 ppg (migraine)
Jordan 87' 1st Rd - Oakley 20 ppg


Jordan lost with the least help

[superduper]

Good lord LeGOAT has had so much damn help throughout his career :eek:

[RRR3]

Your life is dedicated to LeBron.

[Vino24]

85-86 Bulls. 22 year old MJ had Woolridge, Gervin, and Daily putting up prime Pippen numbers. Why couldn't he get it done? 22 year old MJ had 3 Pippen's on his team :biggums: :biggums:

[3ball]

85-86 Bulls. 22 year old MJ had Woolridge, Gervin, and Daily putting up prime Pippen numbers.

Why couldn't he get it done? 22 year old MJ had 3 Pippen's on his team :biggums: :biggums:
Same reason why Lebron didn't win with Shaq in 2010

And bulls were 8 seed, whilst Lebron was the favored 1 seed

[TheMan]

85-86 Bulls. 22 year old MJ had Woolridge, Gervin, and Daily putting up prime Pippen numbers. Why couldn't he get it done? 22 year old MJ had 3 Pippen's on his team :biggums: :biggums:
This guy :roll:

Cokehead Woolridge and senior citizen Gervin...why couldn't Bran win with Shaq? :(

[bigkingsfan]

Pippen/Kareem the only "help" that was first team all nba and defensive first team those years.

[Kblaze8855]

Magic was Kareems help in 1981 not the other way around.

Though I suppose listing Magic as the help would require you to list his 17ppg as Kareems help and your usual pretending that PPG is the same thing as total contribution to success would imply magic did less than a lot of these others....which he didnt. But that never stopped you.

[iamgine]

Last one get many replies. Lets see how many this thread gets eh?

[Wally450]

Another one...

[Manny98]

This guy :roll:

Cokehead Woolridge and senior citizen Gervin...why couldn't Bran win with Shaq? :(
33 = "senior citizen" now foh Gervin was still elite at 33 no excuses. LeBron never got to play with a scorer as talented as Gervin or Woolridge by his side

[superduper]

33 = "senior citizen" now foh Gervin was still elite at 33 no excuses. LeBron never got to play with a scorer as talented as Gervin or Woolridge by his side

So 33 isn't old now but the late 20s Pistons that MJ beat were "old and MJ only won because they were old and past their primes"

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[sdot_thadon]

Mj also made the playoffs with the least wins of this group.. 30 wins gets you into the postseason? :wtf:

[Akeem34TheDream]

This has to be one of the most stupid threads.Like, if you want to shit on people do it smart.

[Ainosterhaspie]

Did I miss something? When did the NBA change to 2v2? I always thought it was 5v5 plus bench players.

Let's look at 2017. Durant's help scored 86.4 ppg. LeBron's help scored 81.2 ppg. Thats 5 ppg less than Durant's help scored.

Why is airball pretending only one guy after the main guy matters?

[SouBeachTalents]

Did I miss something? When did the NBA change to 2v2? I always thought it was 5v5 plus bench players.

Let's look at 2017. Durant's help scored 86.4 ppg. LeBron's help scored 81.2 ppg. Thats 5 ppg less than Durant's help scored.

Why is airball pretending only one guy after the main guy matters?
That's legit his entire basis for arguments, how many points a second option scored. He never references what other contributions the second option made, other teammates, opponent, era & pace. Nope, it's only 2nd option ppg :oldlol:

[Stringer Bell]

1) Lebron 17' Finals - Kyrie 29 ppg
2) Lebron 11' Finals - Wade 27 ppg
3) Bryant 04' .Finals - Shaq 27 ppg
4) Magic 81' 1st Rd - Kareem 27 ppg
5) L Bird. 88' ..ECF.. - McHale 27 ppg
6) Durant 12' Finals - Westbrook 27 ppg

Jordan 85' 1st Rd - Woolridge 21 ppg (rookie yr)
Jordan 95' ECSF.. - Pippen 19 ppg (baseball yr)
Jordan 90'. ECF... - Pippen 16 ppg (migraine)
Jordan 87' 1st Rd - Oakley 20 ppg


Jordan lost with the least help

You’re a strange guy.

Jordan doesn’t know you exist, wouldn’t piss on you if you were on fire, tip you if you were his caddy, give you money if you were homeless and asked him....but you spend hour after hour, day after day, year after year going protecting his “legacy” on message boards.

Every topic somehow turns into “let’s turn this into a way to suck Jordan’s dick”

[3ball]

That's legit his entire basis for arguments, how many points a second option scored. He never references what other contributions the second option made, other teammates, opponent, era & pace. Nope, it's only 2nd option ppg :oldlol:
Bird and Magic played in the same era as MJ (I included players from previous eras and today's )... And pace was faster from 85-93' than pre-2018, so you have no legit complaint

You simply can't respond to the facts (as usual), so you start your whining

The reality is that MJ lost a couple times with 20 ppg sidekick, but he was also forced to win with only that - Pippen's max ability was 22 ppg and that's the most he scored with or without Mike - Mike never got more than 22 ppg from any teammate, nor did he ever have a teammate capable of more

[RRR3]

You’re a strange guy.

Jordan doesn’t know you exist, wouldn’t piss on you if you were on fire, tip you if you were his caddy, give you money if you were homeless and asked him....but you spend hour after hour, day after day, year after year going protecting his “legacy” on message boards.

Every topic somehow turns into “let’s turn this into a way to suck Jordan’s dick”
:roll:

[Smoke117]

That's legit his entire basis for arguments, how many points a second option scored. He never references what other contributions the second option made, other teammates, opponent, era & pace. Nope, it's only 2nd option ppg :oldlol:

Pretty much. It doesn't matter that Pippen was the best defensive player in basically ever series of their 2nd threepeat for both teams, he was garbage because he didn't score a lot of ppgz. That's beside the point scoring or not Pippen had a big impact offensively because he just made the game easier for his teammates. In the 96 playoffs he had a 4.2obpm which is a high offensive bpm. He just always made the right play to the right guy and would always his other teammates going.

There is also the fact that 3ball never acknowledges Pippen was hurt all three of their latter playoff runs. Pippen through the first half of that 96 season was a top 5 player in the league before injuries started piling up that he wouldn't sit out for. He refused to sit in the last 4th of the season because they were gunning for the record. You can see how big of a drop his stats took from first to second half as he was more and more hurt. He also keeps going on about help like the Bulls were beating teams left and right full of superstars or something. Guys like Bird and Magic had to deal with eachother and than the Sixers in the early 80s. All three of these teams are better than any team the Bulls beat had to beat on a championship run. So why even bring that up? He is always going on how weak the east is during LeBron's time there like the 90s east was so powerful or something. lol

[SouBeachTalents]

Bird and Magic played in the same era as MJ (I included players from previous eras and today's )... And pace was faster from 85-93' than pre-2018, so you have no legit complaint

You simply can't respond to the facts (as usual), so you start your whining

The reality is that MJ lost a couple times with 20 ppg sidekick, but he was also forced to win with only that - Pippen's max ability was 22 ppg and that's the most he scored with or without Mike - Mike never got more than 22 ppg from any teammate, nor did he ever have a teammate capable of more
Same shit applies to players like Russell & KG, you either straight up don't comprehend or refuse to acknowledge there's more to basketball than scoring

[Ainosterhaspie]

In 98 MJ's teammates outscored Malones's teammates.

[RRR3]

It’s true what smoke said.

Pippen pre ASB in 96: 21.3 PPG on 58.0 TS%

Post ASB: 16.5 PPG on 50.0 TS%


Dude was sacrificing his health for MJ and 3ball is still ungrateful :facepalm

[Ainosterhaspie]

2018. Durant's teammates outscore LeBron's teammates 87-67 ppg.
2017. Durant's teammates outscore LeBron's teammates 86-81 ppg.
2016. Curry's teammates outscore LeBron's teammates 77-71 ppg.
2015. Curry's teammates outscore LeBron's teammates 75-58 ppg.
2014. Parker's teammates outscore LeBron's teammates 88-63 ppg.
2013. Duncan's teammates outscore LeBron's teammates 79-72 ppg.

Help is not just about one or two guys. It's not just the big names that matter. Every player that steps on the floor contributes to or compromises the team. The story of any given series is in part written by unlauded players who quietly do their job.

LeBron may have had bigger names on his team, but he's been facing teams with greater depth which has generally been cumulatively better than the support James has had.

[3ball]

Same shit applies to players like Russell & KG, you either straight up don't comprehend or refuse to acknowledge there's more to basketball than scoring
The Bulls' defensive rank for the 6 rings was: 7th, 4th, 7th, 1st, 4th, 3rd

So numerous teams had better defenses, in part because virtually everyone had better rim protection and better athletes than Kukoc, Kerr, Paxson, Wennington, Perdue, etc... In a big man era, the Bulls never had a center average more than 0.5 blocks (edit: Corzine averaged 0.8 in 88')

And btw, Pippen is nowhere near Russell or KG - KG wasn't capable of averaging 15/6/5 on 35% like Pippen did MANY times, and both KG and Russell were far more impactful defenders

Without MJ, Pippen would be Jimmy Butler with worse stats as a best case scenario... maybe Jeff Green at worst... Pippen does almost everything worse than Jimmy Butler on offense, while being similar defensively

MJ won 6 rings with a player that was between Green and Butler... :bowdown:

[RRR3]

This dude just compared Scottie Pippen to Jeff Green. Permaban time

[Manny98]

Without MJ, Pippen would be Jimmy Butler with worse stats as a best case scenario... maybe Jeff Green at worst... Pippen does almost everything worse than Jimmy Butler on offense, while being similar defensively

MJ won 6 rings with a player that was between Green and Butler... :bowdown:
lol

[3ball]

This dude just compared Scottie Pippen to Jeff Green. Permaban time
Indeed, Green was a lot better than 88' and 89' Pippen

But after that, the question is whether young Pippen would become clearly better than Green if he never played with MJ

I'm not certain he does.. Even if he does and becomes Jimmy Butler - whoopdiwhoop... :sleeping ... Jimmy is nothing without rings... But Jimmy + 6 rings = Pippen ... Actually, if Butler had 6 rings, he'd be recognized as better than pippen, because he's better than pippen!! (much better shooter, scorer, and comparable defender)

[Stringer Bell]

In 98 MJ's teammates outscored Malones's teammates.

The rest of the team shot surprisingly well in Jordan

[3ball]

[QUOTE=Stringer Bell]The rest of the team shot surprisingly well in Jordan

[Stringer Bell]

MJ scored 45 of his team's 87 points in Game 6 (52%), including every big bucket down the stretch

So without Pippen (Pippen was hurt and laboring for 6 pts), MJ carried the Bulls to victory over the team that had demolished Duncan/Popovich and Shaq's 4 all-star Lakers in the West playoffs.. they were too much for Duncan and Shaq, but not an old MJ .

Overall, MJ scored 38% of his team's points in the Finals (a record).. He also averaged 33.5 in an 82-pace series, which is insane - Kobe and Shaq are the only 2 guys to average 30+ in a below-90 pace series (there's was an 89 pace series, while MJ's was 82 pace)

That had nothing to do at all with what I said.

The fact that you jumped on and rambled more to defend Jordan, after I simply complimented his teammates, shows your disturbing obsession with defending the

[SouBeachTalents]

MJ scored 45 of his team's 87 points in Game 6 (52%), including every big bucket down the stretch

So without Pippen (Pippen was hurt and laboring for 6 pts), MJ carried the Bulls to victory over the team that had demolished Duncan/Popovich and Shaq's 4 all-star Lakers in the West playoffs.. they were too much for Duncan and Shaq, but not an old MJ .

Overall, MJ scored 38% of his team's points in the Finals (a record).. He also averaged 33.5 in an 82-pace series, which is insane - Kobe and Shaq are the only 2 guys to average 30+ in a below-90 pace series (there's was an 89 pace series, while MJ's was 82 pace)
Jordan deserves all the credit for Game 6, but Pippen helped put the Bulls in that position with his play during the first 4 games of the series, which gave Chicago a 3-1 lead. He even had many claiming he was the MVP of the Finals

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1998-06-11-9806110398-story.html
https://www.deseret.com/1998/6/11/19385041/what-about-pippen-for-nba-finals-mvp
https://www.apnews.com/778ed9711147fd5917209bbf1c8c2091

[RRR3]

Jordan deserves all the credit for Game 6, but Pippen helped put the Bulls in that position with his play during the first 4 games of the series, which gave Chicago a 3-1 lead. He even had many claiming he was the MVP of the Finals

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1998-06-11-9806110398-story.html
https://www.deseret.com/1998/6/11/19385041/what-about-pippen-for-nba-finals-mvp
https://www.apnews.com/778ed9711147fd5917209bbf1c8c2091
Uh oh. Incoming meltdown.

[3ball]

Pretty much. It doesn't matter that Pippen was the best defensive player in basically ever series of their 2nd threepeat for both teams, he was garbage because he didn't score a lot of ppgz. That's beside the point scoring or not Pippen had a big impact offensively because he just made the game easier for his teammates. In the 96 playoffs he had a 4.2obpm which is a high offensive bpm. He just always made the right play to the right guy and would always his other teammates going.

There is also the fact that 3ball never acknowledges Pippen was hurt all three of their latter playoff runs. Pippen through the first half of that 96 season was a top 5 player in the league before injuries started piling up that he wouldn't sit out for. He refused to sit in the last 4th of the season because they were gunning for the record. You can see how big of a drop his stats took from first to second half as he was more and more hurt. He also keeps going on about help like the Bulls were beating teams left and right full of superstars or something. Guys like Bird and Magic had to deal with eachother and than the Sixers in the early 80s. All three of these teams are better than any team the Bulls beat had to beat on a championship run. So why even bring that up? He is always going on how weak the east is during LeBron's time there like the 90s east was so powerful or something. lol
Despite Pippen's sub-par scoring and Rodman's lack of offense, the Bulls still had the #1 offense because of MJ's goat scoring... the defense had little to do with making the Bulls the #1 offense - it was MJ's goat scoring levels fitting into a teammate-involving system that offset Pippen's weak scoring and allowed a #1 offense

Infact, the average rank of the Bulls' defense during the 2 three-peats was 5th.. So the Bulls defense was good, but it lacked the rim protection that many other teams had, and therefore couldn't rely on defense to win much more than any other top 10 defense did

[SouBeachTalents]

Despite Pippen's sub-par scoring and Rodman's lack of offense, the Bulls still had the #1 offense because of MJ's goat scoring... the defense had little to do with making the Bulls the #1 offense - it was MJ's goat scoring levels fitting into a teammate-involving system that offset Pippen's weak scoring and allowed a #1 offense

Infact, the average rank of the Bulls' defense during the 2 three-peats was 5th.. So the Bulls defense was good, but it lacked the rim protection that many other teams had, and therefore couldn't rely on defense to win much more than any other top 10 defense did
You once again have no idea what you're talking about. During the playoffs, especially during the 2nd 3peat, it was the Bulls defense that was the catalyst, not the offense. They consistently held opponents to under 90 ppg, usually holding teams to 10-15 ppg less than what they averaged during the regular season.

You think it's a coincidence the Bulls kept winning despite Jordan having some truly anemic shooting performances, like the '96 Finals & '97 ECF?

[Ainosterhaspie]

You once again have no idea what you're talking about. During the playoffs, especially during the 2nd 3peat, it was the Bulls defense that was the catalyst, not the offense. They consistently held opponents to under 90 ppg, usually holding teams to 10-15 ppg less than what they averaged during the regular season.

You think it's a coincidence the Bulls kept winning despite Jordan having some truly anemic shooting performances, like the '96 Finals & '97 ECF?
In the 98 finals, the Bulls held the team with the best regular season ORtg to an atrocious 96 ORtg, a -16 drop, but the Bulls didn't win with defense.

[3ball]

Jordan deserves all the credit for Game 6, but Pippen helped put the Bulls in that position with his play during the first 4 games of the series, which gave Chicago a 3-1 lead. He even had many claiming he was the MVP of the Finals

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1998-06-11-9806110398-story.html
https://www.deseret.com/1998/6/11/19385041/what-about-pippen-for-nba-finals-mvp
https://www.apnews.com/778ed9711147fd5917209bbf1c8c2091

Yes, Pippen surprisingly didn't stink it up like he did the ECF, and actually played pretty well:



Thru 4 games

Jordan (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01/gamelog/1998/#174-177-sum:pgl_basic_playoffs) - 32.0.. 4.8.. 2.3.. 44.7%
Pippen (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01/gamelog/1998/#174-177-sum:pgl_basic_playoffs) - 20.0.. 6.8.. 3.5.. 46.7%



But MJ had to close the show as always:



Games 5 and 6

Jordan (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01/gamelog/1998/#178-179-sum:pgl_basic_playoffs) - 36.5.. 2.5.. 2.5.. 39.3%
Pippen (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01/gamelog/1998/#177-178-sum:pgl_basic_playoffs) -..' 7.0.. 7.1.. 7.5.. 26.1%



And Pippen didn't play better defense than MJ, let alone 12 points better to offset his 12 point scoring deficit in the first 4 games.. MJ's goat offense simply overshadowed his defense, whereas Pippen's weak offense makes people over-focus on his defense..

The reality is that MJ was expending incredible energy carrying the offense, so he shouldn't be capable of playing ANY defense (like lebron in the Finals)... Yet he was still a Kawhi/Payton/Pippen-type of defender and recognized as such

MJ held all his defensive assignments to 35-43% shooting, while Pippen's guy was always going off - but don't let that ruin your narrative!!.. I get it bro - understandably, it's hard to watch Pip's offense so you must oversell his defense

[RRR3]

Yes, Pippen didn't stink it up like he did the ECF, and actually played pretty well:



Thru 4 games

Jordan (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01/gamelog/1998/#174-177-sum:pgl_basic_playoffs) - 32.0.. 4.8.. 2.3.. 44.7%
Pippen (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01/gamelog/1998/#174-177-sum:pgl_basic_playoffs) - 20.0.. 6.8.. 3.5.. 46.7%


But MJ had to close the show as always:



Games 5 and 6

Jordan (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01/gamelog/1998/#178-179-sum:pgl_basic_playoffs) - 36.5.. 2.5.. 2.5.. 39.3%
Pippen (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01/gamelog/1998/#177-178-sum:pgl_basic_playoffs)..' - 7.0.. 7.1.. 7.5.. 26.1%



And Pippen didn't play better defense than MJ, let alone 12 points better to offset his 12 point scoring deficit in the first 4 games.. MJ's goat offense simply overshadowed his defense, whereas Pippen's weak offense makes people over-focus on his defense..

The reality is that MJ was expending incredible energy carrying the offense, so he shouldn't be capable of playing ANY defense (like lebron in the Finals)... Yet he was still a Kawhi/Payton/Pippen-type of defender and recognized as such

MJ held all his defensive assignments to 35-43% shooting, while Pippen's guy was always going off - but don't let that ruin your narrative!!.. I get it bro - understandably, it's hard to watch Pip's offense so you must oversell his defense
:roll: you

[Ainosterhaspie]

Uh oh. Incoming meltdown.
You're a prophet.

[3ball]

:roll: you’re such a hypocrite.


Pippen' Game 5 & 6....... 7/7 on 26%

Mosgov 15' Finals....... 14/8 on 55%
Tristan.. 15' Finals....... 10/13 on 50%


^^^ I'm sure if MJ had Lebron's help he would've shot better the last 2 games.. or if he was slanking defensively and letting a 7 ppg bench player double their average to win MVP
.

[Ainosterhaspie]

I'm sure if Pippen had LeBron helping him out he would have shot better.

[3ball]

I'm sure if Pippen had LeBron helping him out he would have shot better.


:oldlol:

Pippen is a non-shooting, ballhandler and therefore the WORST match for Lebron's skillset

So he wouldn't average anywhere near 20 ppg next to Lebron as a spot-up shooter because he can't shoot!!!!

And the team would have a much lower ceiling with Pippen marginalized and turned into a spot-up bricklayer...

Bron wouldn't do shit with Pippen . Zero rings.. And pippen would've developed into Jeff green

[Smoke117]

Yes, Pippen surprisingly didn't stink it up like he did the ECF, and actually played pretty well:



Thru 4 games

Jordan (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01/gamelog/1998/#174-177-sum:pgl_basic_playoffs) - 32.0.. 4.8.. 2.3.. 44.7%
Pippen (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01/gamelog/1998/#174-177-sum:pgl_basic_playoffs) - 20.0.. 6.8.. 3.5.. 46.7%



But MJ had to close the show as always:



Games 5 and 6

Jordan (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01/gamelog/1998/#178-179-sum:pgl_basic_playoffs) - 36.5.. 2.5.. 2.5.. 39.3%
Pippen (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01/gamelog/1998/#177-178-sum:pgl_basic_playoffs) -..' 7.0.. 7.1.. 7.5.. 26.1%



And Pippen didn't play better defense than MJ, let alone 12 points better to offset his 12 point scoring deficit in the first 4 games.. MJ's goat offense simply overshadowed his defense, whereas Pippen's weak offense makes people over-focus on his defense..

The reality is that MJ was expending incredible energy carrying the offense, so he shouldn't be capable of playing ANY defense (like lebron in the Finals)... Yet he was still a Kawhi/Payton/Pippen-type of defender and recognized as such

MJ held all his defensive assignments to 35-43% shooting, while Pippen's guy was always going off - but don't let that ruin your narrative!!.. I get it bro - understandably, it's hard to watch Pip's offense so you must oversell his defense

You're so cringy and deluded. This is why it's impossible to have any kind of actual conversation with you. The sad part is you actually saw this series and still believe this nonsense. It's common knowledge by anyone who actually watched that series that Pippen was completely disrupting the Jazz offense with his help/team defense. Sloan was nearly having a heart attack going off on the refs saying he was playing illegal defense all the time. To try to use some individual match up to say Jordan was better defensively is just laughable and why nobody takes you seriously. Like I said, it's just complete and utter delusion by you. And the saddest part as we've all said, Jordan is already considered the greatest of all time and you still feel the need to say bullshit like this. I've said it least a dozen times before and I'll say it again...you're pathetic.

[egokiller]

1) Lebron 17' Finals - Kyrie 29 ppg
2) Lebron 11' Finals - Wade 27 ppg
3) Bryant 04' .Finals - Shaq 27 ppg
4) Magic 81' 1st Rd - Kareem 27 ppg
5) L Bird. 88' ..ECF.. - McHale 27 ppg
6) Durant 12' Finals - Westbrook 27 ppg

Jordan 85' 1st Rd - Woolridge 21 ppg (rookie yr)
Jordan 95' ECSF.. - Pippen 19 ppg (baseball yr)
Jordan 90'. ECF... - Pippen 16 ppg (migraine)
Jordan 87' 1st Rd - Oakley 20 ppg


Jordan lost with the least help

Jordan did so much more with so much less. No wonder why those who only saw LeBron are so insecure over what they missed. :applause:

"but...but...but.. Pippen's defense...." -

Was only possible in the first place because he spent his practices covering MJ and practicing help defense against MJ.

Another one

[Ainosterhaspie]

Yeah, it's a total shock that a number five pick with great length and athleticism panned out. Had to be MJ's doing.

[egokiller]

Yeah, it's a total shock that a number five pick with great length and athleticism panned out. Had to be MJ's doing.

Yep, you're right. His defense was so amazing that it was enough to get past the Piston's right off the go. :rolleyes: Oh wait... that didn't happen until MJ had enough and started making Pippen do double practices with him to improve his defense. It's all well documented. No need to try and pretend MJ wasn't so obsessed with winning that he didn't bust Pippen's ass and make him come to his house everyday for double practices. MJ is one of the main reasons why Pippen became the elite defender that he became.

[Ainosterhaspie]

A rookie got better his first few years? That's shocking. Obviously that could only have happened thanks to MJ.

[egokiller]

A rookie got better his first few years? That's shocking. Obviously that could only have happened thanks to MJ.

Weak trolling.

We aren

[Smoke117]

[QUOTE=egokiller]Weak trolling.

We aren

[Ainosterhaspie]

[QUOTE=egokiller]Weak trolling.

We aren

[Hey Yo]

[QUOTE=egokiller]Weak trolling.

We aren

[Smoke117]

Yeah, it's a total shock that a number five pick with great length and athleticism panned out. Had to be MJ's doing.

Jack McCloskey, who was the Pistons's GM at the time Pippen was drafted, called Scottie a future superstar and was furiously trying to trade up to draft him. He was obviously right as he's considered a top 30 player of all time. Jordan stans like 3ball and LeBron haters like egokiller want you to believe Pippen was some nobody that Jordan just molded. That's beside the point that you can't just "mold" a player. It takes a lot hardwork and a lot of talent to develop the skill to be an NBA superstar. If Jordan could just mold anyone than what the fukk happened with Kwame? :lol

[3ball]

Jack McCloskey, who was the Pistons's GM at the time Pippen was drafted, called Scottie a future superstar and was furiously trying to trade up to draft him. He was obviously right as he's considered a top 30 player of all time. Jordan stans like 3ball and LeBron haters like egokiller want you to believe Pippen was some nobody that Jordan just molded. That's beside the point that you can't just "mold" a player. It takes a lot hardwork and a lot of talent to develop the skill to be an NBA superstar. If Jordan could just mold anyone than what the fukk happened with Kwame? :lol
With Kwame, MJ was no longer the league's scoring champ and DPOY like he was in 88' when Pippen joined... Pippen witnessed the goat 2-way season first hand

And Pippen had raw talent (more than kukoc, brad sellers, etc) but a lot of guys have raw talent.. means nothing that McCloskey was high on him.. there's a very good chance that Pippen ends up a wasted talent like Perry Jones with no MJ there to show him guard moves

[sdot_thadon]

Yup my exact thoughts on the whole "made pippen" slant. If he "made" pippen, why the **** would he only create one instead of a platoon of them? Why'd he wait so long to start "making" them? And why he never "made" another one in the 20 or so years that followed?

Sounds like a fairytale to me.....

[egokiller]

It's comical how upset lestans are over the fact that MJ went the extra distance to mentor a teammate, and how it's clearly documented that he had double work outs everyday with Pippen to mold him into the defender he became. The whole "help defense" argument is thrown out the window because Pippen was not always assigned to MJ. There were just as many practices where MJ and PJAX decided to work on help defense and Pippen would play off of MJ.

Why didn't he mold anyone else? Why would he need to when the end result was 6/6 perfection? Molding another player in addition to Pippen would have just been wasted time. MJ doing all that extra mentoring and practice with Pippen was a coaches dream. What did LeBron ever do for his coach? Get them fired? He's an absolute joke compared to MJ.

Why aren't there documented stories of LeBron having closed workout sessions with a teammate of his resulting in double practices per day for years? It's because he wasn't a killer like MJ. Stop pretending that LeBron is something he's something he's not and will never be. :no:

[3ball]

So why didn't MJ turn Grant into an All-NBA player also?

Why not Brad Sellers? or Kukoc? or Armstrong? or Paxson?

Why just Pippen?
Those guys didn't have Pippen's raw talent

But a lot of guys have raw athleticism and no skill, just like Pippen before he developed next to MJ.. Heck, Orlando Woolridge (an even better athlete) was developing the same way Pippen did

If Pippen hadn't begun his career by getting a first-hand look at the goat 2-way season in 1988, and if he didn't learn moves/copy MJ, he probably becomes Perry Jones or Jeff Green (great athletes like Pippen but never developed the skill)

[PickernRoller]

OP with a quality line on this one. Braided 50 pounder pulling em in with ease.