Jefferson: Kobe was great but Lebron's never been the second best player on his team

[LAmbruh]

Richard Jefferson: Kobe was great, one of the greatest all time, but you can't say '5 championships to Lebron's 3' - Lebron's never been the second best player on his team, ever in his career, and it's really not even close

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsruAdsJGMU


https://media.giphy.com/media/5OWLUbuMq4YXEl2ECg/giphy.gif

[Real Men Wear Green]

Anthony Davis is better as of right now.

[superduper]

Wade was better in 2011 and Bran knew this so he sabotaged it...

...LeGOAT lives on :rockon:

[scuzzy]

It's actually scary when you think of how many rings 19yo Lebron would have accomplished with 1998-2005 Shaq

[34-24 Footwork]

After Kobe did him dirty in 2002, I don't blame him.

Kobe still on the brain 17 years later.

[G0ATbe]

Another one?:(

[TheMan]

It's actually scary when you think of how many rings 19yo Lebron would have accomplished with 1998-2005 Shaq
I agree...and all as second fiddle.

[andgar923]

Richard Jefferson: Kobe was great, one of the greatest all time, but you can't say '5 championships to Lebron's 3' - Lebron's never been the second best player on his team, ever in his career, and it's really not even close

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsruAdsJGMU


https://media.giphy.com/media/5OWLUbuMq4YXEl2ECg/giphy.gif
So Gasol was better???

[LAmbruh]

Another one?:(
another one :confusedshrug:

[sdot_thadon]

So Gasol was better???
Troll or not you know that's not what's being implied there.....:oldlol:

[Stephonit]

Shaq is an all-time great. Who was his best teammate that he never won a championship with?

[Bosnian Sajo]

In that case RJ...you don't have a championship. Right?


You don't wanna count Kobe's as 2nd best player on a team, why should we count yours at 37 years old and 10 minutes per game off the bench? ****ing idiot.

[baudkarma]

If LeBron had played with 2000-2002 Shaq, LeBron would have been the second best player on that team.

[Bosnian Sajo]

If LeBron had played with 2000-2002 Shaq, LeBron would have been the second best player on that team.


BIIIINGOOOOO

[sdot_thadon]

In that case RJ...you don't have a championship. Right?


You don't wanna count Kobe's as 2nd best player on a team, why should we count yours at 37 years old and 10 minutes per game off the bench? ****ing idiot.
It's not so much as they don't count, they just don't count as much as the guys who won as the man. Otherwise Pippen would technically have "more" rings than Kobe right? Lebron won more rings as the man than Kobe did.

[scuzzy]

If LeBron had played with 2000-2002 Shaq, LeBron would have been the second best player on that team.
You're proving RJ's point


The rings argument is irrelevant because anyone could have won with prime Shaq and undoubtedly many more with Lebron

[guy]

Jefferson didn't even bring this up to say either Lebron or Kobe were better then the other. He was just saying that its not fair to compare ring count because of this when it comes to who was actually better. I'm sure he probably feels a certain way, but he wasn't arguing who is better.

[Stringer Bell]

It's actually scary when you think of how many rings 19yo Lebron would have accomplished with 1998-2005 Shaq

I wonder how long they would co-exist. Shaq is so damn petty and insecure that even if LeBron deferred to him and willingly took the 2nd scoring option role, Shaq would still be threatened by all the attention and popularity that LeBron would get.

Just like he started getting threatened by Penny

[AlternativeAcc.]

Anthony Davis is better as of right now.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[superduper]

[QUOTE=Stringer Bell]I wonder how long they would co-exist. Shaq is so damn petty and insecure that even if LeBron deferred to him and willingly took the 2nd scoring option role, Shaq would still be threatened by all the attention and popularity that LeBron would get.

Just like he started getting threatened by Penny

[Mr Feeny]

Wade was better in 2011 and Davis is better now.

[stalkerforlife]

Wade was better in 2011 and Davis is better now.

And that's from a LeBron fan.

Woooo!

[sdot_thadon]

Pretty sure that was said in the context of title teams. They didn't win in 2011, and they haven't played a single game this season yet......

[scuzzy]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
:oldlol: :oldlol:

Kevin Love 2.0

[RRR3]

Wade was better in 2011 and Davis is better now.
:facepalm

[eliteballer]

What were Wade and LeBron's numbers in the 2011 Finals?

[Mr Feeny]

:facepalm

What's confusing you now? Or are you just programmed to lick Lebron's rear end?

[Charlie Sheen]

You're proving RJ's point


The rings argument is irrelevant because anyone could have won with prime Shaq and undoubtedly many more with Lebron
Too far. You can't just apply many more championships. That's not reality.

It's fair to say that a majority of Kobe's championships came playing on a team with one of the best players of all time and a hall of fame 11x champion coach.

[Wally450]

In that case RJ...you don't have a championship. Right?


You don't wanna count Kobe's as 2nd best player on a team, why should we count yours at 37 years old and 10 minutes per game off the bench? ****ing idiot.


That's..... not what the argument is here.

[AlternativeAcc.]

That's..... not what the argument is here.
That..... guy isn't very bright.

One of the goofiest and least bright guys around this place tbh lol.

[MoBe1Kanobi]

It's not so much as they don't count, they just don't count as much as the guys who won as the man. Otherwise Pippen would technically have "more" rings than Kobe right? Lebron won more rings as the man than Kobe did.

LeBron had not only better teammates as the "man", he also had much more time than Kobe to build up his own personal dynasty catered around his needs compared to Kobe who was only given from 2004-2005 through 2013 to win his two titles as the man. LeBrons been given 16 yrs with to win titles as the man and only won 3 compared to Kobe who was only given 9 yrs to win as the man and he won 2, only 1 less championship in basically half the attempts as the man.

If you want to take out his titles with Shaq then you can't just dismiss his first 8 seasons as failed attempts to win as the man. Kobe was good enough to be a title leader best player on a title team since about 2001. He just had the bad luck of playing with the most dominant player of all time, literally the only person who could have taken away credit from him.

[superduper]

Look out guys Kobe had Pau mutha****ing GASSHOLE!!! :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

[Cocaine80s]

We

[Mr Feeny]

LeBron had not only better teammates as the "man", he also had much more time than Kobe to build up his own personal dynasty catered around his needs compared to Kobe who was only given from 2004-2005 through 2013 to win his two titles as the man. LeBrons been given 16 yrs with to win titles as the man and only won 3 compared to Kobe who was only given 9 yrs to win as the man and he won 2, only 1 less championship in basically half the attempts as the man.

If you want to take out his titles with Shaq then you can't just dismiss his first 8 seasons as failed attempts to win as the man. Kobe was good enough to be a title leader best player on a title team since about 2001. He just had the bad luck of playing with the most dominant player of all time, literally the only person who could have taken away credit from him.

Not while Shaq and Duncan were in their primes,he wasn't. Kobe always needed the most dominant front court in basketball to win, because he needs his team to dominate the boards. Because he's woefully inefficienct when it counts -in the finals.

If he were on another team and taking on Duncan and Shaq as a first option, he'd get swept every single time. Because he wouldn't have the most dominant front court in the league.

[superduper]

We’re still arguing Lebron and Kobe in 2019? Lebron surpassed him in 2013, now he’s defending his Goat throne with Jordan

Given that 90% of people who have touched an NBA court still have Kobe over Bran... nah :oldlol:

Bran will never remotely be as respected as much as Kobe was/is and this burns Bran stans up inside.

[LAmbruh]

[QUOTE=Cocaine80s]We

[3ball]

It's actually scary when you think of how many rings 19yo Lebron would have accomplished with 1998-2005 Shaq
No it isn't because we've already seen "not 6, not 7" expectations turn into 2/4

And during his first 6 playoff runs, Lebron had a lot of problems either statistically or mentally in the 2007 Playoffs (22 on 36% in Finals), 2008 Playoffs (26 on 35% in ECSF), 2010 Playoffs (questionable mentally vs Celts), 2011 Playoffs (goat choke).. And Shaq wasn't much better with back-to-back sweep losses to Utah in 97' and 98'

So young Lebron and Shaq would be one of the biggest disappointments in history - you'd have 2 guys with shaky clutch and FT's down the stretch of games - 2 guys that always needed all-world scorers as sidekicks now have each other ... And we know that young lebron had more problems with his jumper than Giannis (17% on jumpers in 07' Finals vs 23% for Giannis vs 19' Raptors)

[Manny98]

Anthony Davis is better as of right now.
You should ban yourself for saying that :facepalm

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

04 Big Z
11 Wade
current AD

fake news Rich

[MoBe1Kanobi]

Not while Shaq and Duncan were in their primes,he wasn't. Kobe always needed the most dominant front court in basketball to win, because he needs his team to dominate the boards. Because he's woefully inefficienct when it counts -in the finals.

If he were on another team and taking on Duncan and Shaq as a first option, he'd get swept every single time. Because he wouldn't have the most dominant front court in the league.

Prime Kobe needs: dominant frontcourt + disciplined role players
Prime LeBron needs: dominant wing + dominant stretch big + shooters
Prime Shaq needs: dominant wing + disciplined role players

Based on these needs you can see who makes it the easiest to win a title and the results are shown below:

Prime Kobe needs met = 5 titles, 2 titles as the undisputed man in only 9 seasons
Prime LeBron needs met = 3 titles in 16 seasons as the man
Prime Shaq needs met = 4 titles, 3 titles as the man in 13 seasons

Statistically there is no argument. The analytics posted above clearly demonstrate that not only is Kobe the most efficient winner of these three, he's also the easiest to build around despite his "shotjacker" reputation. Star players went out their way to avoid playing with him and he STILL couldn't be stopped from title collection :applause:

[RRR3]

Kobetards are just mindnumbingly stupid.

[Doranku]

RJ is biased from all those team shower sessions with LeBron in Cleveland.

[red1]

look at these champions right here. RJ deserves it, he was great for the nets even though that's a trash franchise right there.



https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a8/09/1c/a8091c5d62b1dd59b0d86595b0fb963a.jpg

[3ball]

Prime Kobe needs: dominant frontcourt + disciplined role players
Prime LeBron needs: dominant wing + dominant stretch big + shooters



This is exactly true

That's why Kobe is better - he's easier to build around because his superior scoring versatility fits with more player types, so his teams have higher ceilings/brand than Lebron's spot-up shooting teams.. Even when Lebron has good help, he doesn't yield the best teams, whereas Kobe did

[superduper]

look at these champions right here. RJ deserves it, he was great for the nets even though that's a trash franchise right there.



https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a8/09/1c/a8091c5d62b1dd59b0d86595b0fb963a.jpg

Man, RJ and Frye straight up carried some games.

Amazing players and amazing people :applause:

[tpols]

dumb argument.

if lebron at any point in his career played with peak shaq hed be 2nd on his team as well.

and win less because his style isnt meant for posting or midrange that the triangle requires.

[Keno]

tell us something we didn't know, anotha one.

[red1]

Man, RJ and Frye straight up carried some games.

Amazing players and amazing people :applause:
I actually hate frye and love because these scrubs always go off against the raptors but can't do shit against anyone else.



I was mostly praising RJ and james jones.

[3ball]

look at these champions right here. RJ deserves it, he was great for the nets even though that's a trash franchise right there.



https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a8/09/1c/a8091c5d62b1dd59b0d86595b0fb963a.jpg
Lebron, Kyrie, Love, Tristan, JR > Curry, Klay, Dray, Barnes

And it's funny because in the 2015 Finals, Mosgov averaged 14/8 on 55%, while Tristan averaged 10/13 on 50%.... That's really good help and MJ never lost when he had help like that from his #2 and #3 guys

[red1]

Lebron, Kyrie, Love, Tristan, JR > Curry, Klay, Dray, Barnes

And it's funny because in the 2015 Finals, Mosgov averaged 14/8 on 55%, while Tristan averaged 10/13 on 50%.... That's really good help and MJ never lost when he had help like that from his #2 and #3 guys
dude.



you think mo williams and pippen are a similar level of player. your opinion is irrelevant.

[Manny98]

Lebron, Kyrie, Love, Tristan, JR > Curry, Klay, Dray, Barnes

And it's funny because in the 2015 Finals, Mosgov averaged 14/8 on 55%, while Tristan averaged 10/13 on 50%.... That's really good help and MJ never lost when he had help like that from his #2 and #3 guys
He got swept by the Celtics when he had 20ppg scorer in Woolridge by his side

LeBron never got swept when he had another 20ppg in fact i don't think LeBron has ever even missed the finals when he's had a second option that can give you at least 19ppg

[RRR3]

14 PPG from your second option is “really good” :roll:

[LAmbruh]

damn, Kobe stans getting crushed on r/nba + r/lakers right now


and ofc on RGM and ISH as always

[34-24 Footwork]

Damn. Kobe threads entering into 2020 :lol

Not too shabby for Kobe. Never thought he'd be THIS talked about by now.

Keep em comin :rockon:

[StrongLurk]

AD could definitely be better than Bron this year...and I mean it's GUARANTEED that Lebron isn't the best player on his team anymore as he ages...

If Lebron started his career with Shaq, then Lebron would have been second fiddle as well for a bit.

[MoBe1Kanobi]

This is exactly true

That's why Kobe is better - he's easier to build around because his superior scoring versatility fits with more player types, so his teams have higher ceilings/brand than Lebron's spot-up shooting teams.. Even when Lebron has good help, he doesn't yield the best teams, whereas Kobe did

True

And the fact that this is so obvious yet not truly common knowledge has me truly starting to believe that the reason why even somewhat remaining faith in the LeBron system/legacy still exists is because there ABSOLUTELY has to be some faction of strings being pulled at the top levels from both LeBron and his business interests and their investments in him to still pump sports media heads to push his legacy even further. The NBA must have involvement as well because I imagine they want to continue to milk the LeBron vs MJ narrative to the moon because LeBron might be the last true 'kinda' close MJ comparison we'll have for while as far as status and global recognition.

The fact that his career existed well before social media still puts him in a space that is completely antiquated compared to every other current great player. If a star was made pre social media, he's twice as big impact wise to your average fan compared to current day athletes that are too overexposed, too visible.

LeBron really might be the last MAJOR MAJOR single man money maker we'll ever see in the NBA due to how every star from now forward will be overexposed and thus less mythic to your average fan. They're milking his career right now harder for all it's worth. All interests invested.

[Hey Yo]

LeBron had not only better teammates as the "man", he also had much more time than Kobe to build up his own personal dynasty catered around his needs compared to Kobe who was only given from 2004-2005 through 2013 to win his two titles as the man. LeBrons been given 16 yrs with to win titles as the man and only won 3 compared to Kobe who was only given 9 yrs to win as the man and he won 2, only 1 less championship in basically half the attempts as the man.

If you want to take out his titles with Shaq then you can't just dismiss his first 8 seasons as failed attempts to win as the man. Kobe was good enough to be a title leader best player on a title team since about 2001. He just had the bad luck of playing with the most dominant player of all time, literally the only person who could have taken away credit from him.
Kobe only has himself to blame for the short window of being the man.

John Calipari was ready to draft him and make him the starting SG for the Nets, but Kobe refused so he could play for the Lakers and ride the bench for almost 2yrs. Plus nobody made him re-sign with LA... he could have went somewhere else and played as the man.

[sdot_thadon]

LeBron had not only better teammates as the "man", he also had much more time than Kobe to build up his own personal dynasty catered around his needs compared to Kobe who was only given from 2004-2005 through 2013 to win his two titles as the man. LeBrons been given 16 yrs with to win titles as the man and only won 3 compared to Kobe who was only given 9 yrs to win as the man and he won 2, only 1 less championship in basically half the attempts as the man.

If you want to take out his titles with Shaq then you can't just dismiss his first 8 seasons as failed attempts to win as the man. Kobe was good enough to be a title leader best player on a title team since about 2001. He just had the bad luck of playing with the most dominant player of all time, literally the only person who could have taken away credit from him.
What's wrong with you guys? Kobe stans in general? Who said anything about taking out his titles with Shaq? I didn't. I just replied that titles as the man matter more than sidekick rings, and they forever will. Kobe had every opportunity to carve out his own niche as a player, he chose the Lakers not us fans. He chose to sign an extension, not the fans. He was successful, however it was not his team so we don't credit him as such. Lebron surpassed him at some point, exactly when is arguable but it happened and its been years dude. Lebron led his teams to more titles than Kobe, it's not even debatable.

[egokiller]

Lebron's rings are not as relevant as Kobe's 2 rings with Gasol because Lebron had cake walks to all of his finals appearances.

Next

:sleeping

[SpaceJam]

Lebron's rings are not as relevant as Kobe's 2 rings with Gasol because Lebron had cake walks to all of his finals appearances.

Next

:sleeping

The West was weaker in 2009 bro, talk about a cakewalk

[egokiller]

The West was weaker in 2009 bro, talk about a cakewalk

Lakers lost 6 games on their way to the finals in 2009 which is the most losses for lebron ever in a playoffs. Look at these cakewalks:

:roll: :roll: :roll:

2007 - Cavs lose 4 games in playoffs
2011 - Heat lose 3 games
2012 - Heat lose 6 games
2013 - Heat lose 4 games
2014 - Heat lose 3 games
2015 - Cavs lose 2 games
2016 - Cavs lose 2 games
2017 - Cavs lose 1 game
2018 - Cavs lose 1 game

How dafuq do you lose in the finals 6 times after showing up so refreshed from such easy trips?

[SpaceJam]

Lakers lost 6 games on their way to the finals in 2009 which is the most losses for lebron ever in a playoffs. Look at these cakewalks:

:roll: :roll: :roll:

2007 - Cavs lose 4 games in playoffs
2011 - Heat lose 3 games
2012 - Heat lose 6 games
2013 - Heat lose 4 games
2014 - Heat lose 3 games
2015 - Cavs lose 2 games
2016 - Cavs lose 2 games
2017 - Cavs lose 1 game
2018 - Cavs lose 1 game

How dafuq do you lose in the finals 6 times after showing up so refreshed from such easy trips?

In 2009 the East had a better record against the West bro, THUS being the better conference. Cake walk through the bubblebath West? Perhaps

I don't make the rules

[egokiller]

In 2009 the East had a better record against the West bro, THUS being the better conference. Cake walk through the bubblebath West? Perhaps

I don't make the rules

It's not a cakewalk through the playoffs if you lose 6 games on your way to the finals.

Lebron has had so many more cakewalks that his most challenging run was equal to Kobe's 2009 run. :roll:

[SpaceJam]

It's not a cakewalk through the playoffs if you lose 6 games on your way to the finals.

Lebron has had so many more cakewalks that his most challenging run was equal to Kobe's 2009 run. :roll:

What's this arbitrary number to determine a cake walk?

Kobe 2010: Lakers lose 4 games
Kobe 2008: Lakers lose 3 games
Kobe 2002: Lakers lose 4 games
Kobe 2001: Lakers lose 0 games
Kobe 2000: Lakers lose 6 games

MJ 1991: Bulls lose 1 game
MJ 1992: Bulls lose 5 games
MJ 1993: Bulls lose 2 games
MJ 1996: Bulls lose 1 game
MJ 1997: Bulls lose 2 games
MJ 1998: Bulls lose 4 games

What we trying to do here brother?

[LAmbruh]

What's this arbitrary number to determine a cake walk?

Kobe 2010: Lakers lose 4 games
Kobe 2008: Lakers lose 3 games
Kobe 2002: Lakers lose 4 games
Kobe 2001: Lakers lose 0 games
Kobe 2000: Lakers lose 6 games

MJ 1991: Bulls lose 1 game
MJ 1992: Bulls lose 5 games
MJ 1993: Bulls lose 2 games
MJ 1996: Bulls lose 1 game
MJ 1997: Bulls lose 2 games
MJ 1998: Bulls lose 4 games

What we trying to do here brother?
damn :yaohappy:

[Ainosterhaspie]

What's this arbitrary number to determine a cake walk?

Kobe 2010: Lakers lose 4 games
Kobe 2008: Lakers lose 3 games
Kobe 2002: Lakers lose 4 games
Kobe 2001: Lakers lose 0 games
Kobe 2000: Lakers lose 6 games

MJ 1991: Bulls lose 1 game
MJ 1992: Bulls lose 5 games
MJ 1993: Bulls lose 2 games
MJ 1996: Bulls lose 1 game
MJ 1997: Bulls lose 2 games
MJ 1998: Bulls lose 4 games

What we trying to do here brother?

2019 Warriors lose 4 games.
2018 Warriors lose 5 games.
2017 Warriors lose 0 games.
2016 Warriors lose 5 games.
2015 Warriors lose 3 games.

[egokiller]

Since MJ played in a different era, his runs can't even be compared in this context because it's not apples to apples. Not to mention the first round for MJ was only a best of 5 and not 7. We can however compare Kobe vs Lebron. Pick 7 playoff runs for Kobe and Lebron that were finals runs that have the least games lost and tally them.

Kobe 2010: Lakers lose 4 games
Kobe 2009: Lakers lose 6 games
Kobe 2008: Lakers lose 3 games
Kobe 2004: Lakers lose 5 games
Kobe 2002: Lakers lose 4 games
Kobe 2001: Lakers lose 0 games
Kobe 2000: Lakers lose 6 games

28 games lost


2007 - Cavs lose 4 games
2011 - Heat lose 3 games
2012 - Heat lose 6 games
2013 - Heat lose 4 games
2014 - Heat lose 3 games
2015 - Cavs lose 2 games
2016 - Cavs lose 2 games
2017 - Cavs lose 1 game
2018 - Cavs lose 1 game

16 games lost

Kobe had a significantly more difficult time than lebron during his playoff runs. Yep, we are done here.

Another one. :applause:

[AirBonner]

Jefferson does have a point

[Ainosterhaspie]

Since MJ played in a different era, his runs can't even be compared in this context because it's not apples to apples. Not to mention the first round for MJ was only a best of 5 and not 7. We can however compare Kobe vs Lebron. Pick 7 playoff runs for Kobe and Lebron that were finals runs that have the least games lost and tally them.

Kobe 2010: Lakers lose 4 games
Kobe 2009: Lakers lose 6 games
Kobe 2008: Lakers lose 3 games
Kobe 2004: Lakers lose 5 games
Kobe 2002: Lakers lose 4 games
Kobe 2001: Lakers lose 0 games
Kobe 2000: Lakers lose 6 games

28 games lost


2007 - Cavs lose 4 games
2011 - Heat lose 3 games
2012 - Heat lose 6 games
2013 - Heat lose 4 games
2014 - Heat lose 3 games
2015 - Cavs lose 2 games
2016 - Cavs lose 2 games
2017 - Cavs lose 1 game
2018 - Cavs lose 6 games

19 games lost

Kobe had a significantly more difficult time than lebron during his playoff runs. Yep, we are done here.

Another one. :applause:
So you're saying if we ignore LeBron's hardest runs, it shows Kobe had harder runs. You don't say?

Also, your post isn't accurate.

[egokiller]

So you're saying if we ignore LeBron's hardest runs, it shows Kobe had harder runs. You don't say?

Also, your post isn't accurate.

Even if you include his hardest runs, Kobe still had it harder yet lost in the finals less times/won more times.

[LAmbruh]

So you're saying if we ignore LeBron's hardest runs, it shows Kobe had harder runs. You don't say?

Also, your post isn't accurate.
straight_altin getting a train rain on em :oldlol: :roll:


https://media.giphy.com/media/xThuWcZzGnonnG3ayQ/giphy.gif

[Ainosterhaspie]

Even if you include his hardest runs, Kobe still had it harder yet lost in the finals less times/won more times.
Nope 28 for both if you're adding the seven hardest runs. Try again.

[egokiller]

Imagine having an easier run overall during your career to the finals and going 3/9 as opposed to having a more difficult run overall and going a respectable 5/7.

Shit was such a cakewalk it resulted in 8 trip in a row.

Another one!

:banana:

[LAmbruh]

Nope 28 for both if you're adding the seven hardest runs. Try again.
https://media.giphy.com/media/aq6Thivv9V9lu/giphy.gif

[LAL]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BlwouP7CAAAaZLz.jpg

Playing in an actual system and always being reminded to "tone it down" .

LOL @sidekick, he was basically jordan, playing with shaq.

Not that ghetto lebron ball where you can accumulate all the numbers and playing in the weak east, constantly dribbling and hiding his weaknesses.

3/9

[Bronbron23]

Richard Jefferson: Kobe was great, one of the greatest all time, but you can't say '5 championships to Lebron's 3' - Lebron's never been the second best player on his team, ever in his career, and it's really not even close

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsruAdsJGMU


https://media.giphy.com/media/5OWLUbuMq4YXEl2ECg/giphy.gif
It's Kobe's fault he ended up with another atg like Shaq and LeBron didn't. If LeBron at Kobe's age was on that Lakers team he'd be the second best player too.

[Bronbron23]

It's actually scary when you think of how many rings 19yo Lebron would have accomplished with 1998-2005 Shaq
How many? In his prime He only won two out of four with Wade and Bosh when everyone including himself thought he'd win 4,5 or 6.

Why do you think he'd win win a shit ton with Shaq when LeBron was just a puppy?

[LAmbruh]

seems to be the consensus

[Turbo Slayer]

Go RRR3 :rockon:

[Rico2016]

Richard Jefferson: Kobe was great, one of the greatest all time, but you can't say '5 championships to Lebron's 3' - Lebron's never been the second best player on his team, ever in his career, and it's really not even close

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsruAdsJGMU


https://media.giphy.com/media/5OWLUbuMq4YXEl2ECg/giphy.gif

https://media.giphy.com/media/l46CbUJPXiDPEkJcA/giphy.gif

[Rico2016]

How many? In his prime He only won two out of four with Wade and Bosh when everyone including himself thought he'd win 4,5 or 6.

Why do you think he'd win win a shit ton with Shaq when LeBron was just a puppy?

So he'd do less than Kobe (3)?

Not a chance. Kobe was a ball hog. Imagine Shaq and LBJ combo. KILLER ASSISTS IN THE MAKING. 5 chips. 4 minimum

[ImKobe]

Uhh, Lebron was the 3rd best player on his team in the 2011 Finals.


So he'd do less than Kobe (3)?

Not a chance. Kobe was a ball hog. Imagine Shaq and LBJ combo. KILLER ASSISTS IN THE MAKING. 5 chips. 4 minimum

Lebron in the hand-check era? You're asking Lebron to face an even better Spurs defense than the one that held him to 35% shooting and ~6 turnovers per game? :roll:

[Bronbron23]

So he'd do less than Kobe (3)?

Not a chance. Kobe was a ball hog. Imagine Shaq and LBJ combo. KILLER ASSISTS IN THE MAKING. 5 chips. 4 minimum
Dude LeBron only had 1 to 1.5 more assists than Kobe at the same age. Lebron is a good passer but this false narrative that he's magic needs to stop.

[3ball]

2004

Zydrunas... 20.2 PER.. 0.149 ws/48... 2.5 blk.. 15/8/2.. 54.1 ts.. 109 ortg
Lebron....... 18.3 PER.. 0.072 ws/48... 0.7 blk.. 21/6/6.. 48.8 ts.... 99 ortg


So Zydrunas was better in 2004, and Wade was better in 11' - he led the Heat in playoff and Finals stats

[ImKobe]

2004

Zydrunas... 20.2 PER.. 0.149 ws/48... 2.5 blk.. 15/8/2.. 54.1 ts.. 109 ortg
Lebron....... 18.3 PER.. 0.072 ws/48... 0.7 blk.. 21/6/6.. 48.8 ts.... 99 ortg


So Zydrunas was better in 2004, and Wade was better in 11' - he led the Heat in playoff and Finals stats

Not even 2nd best

Boozer - 20.8 PER .174 WS/48 113 ORTG 101 DRTG

[RealSkipBayless]

2004

Zydrunas... 20.2 PER.. 0.149 ws/48... 2.5 blk.. 15/8/2.. 54.1 ts.. 109 ortg
Lebron....... 18.3 PER.. 0.072 ws/48... 0.7 blk.. 21/6/6.. 48.8 ts.... 99 ortg


So Zydrunas was better in 2004, and Wade was better in 11' - he led the Heat in playoff and Finals stats
:eek: :eek:

[SouBeachTalents]

Not even 2nd best

Boozer - 20.8 PER .174 WS/48 113 ORTG 101 DRTG
LeBron: 27.6 PER, .235 WS/48, 116 ORTG, 103 DRTG
'01-'13 Kobe: 24.3 PER, .190 WS/48, 112 ORTG, 105 DRTG

LeBron > Kobe

[ImKobe]

LeBron: 27.6 PER, .235 WS/48, 116 ORTG, 103 DRTG
'01-'13 Kobe: 24.3 PER, .190 WS/48, 112 ORTG, 105 DRTG

LeBron > Kobe


Kobe won twice as many rings in the same era. I was comparing their individual production on the same team that season, and it looks like Lebron didn't do too well in the handcheck era :cry:

[And1AllDay]

LeBron: 27.6 PER, .235 WS/48, 116 ORTG, 103 DRTG
'01-'13 Kobe: 24.3 PER, .190 WS/48, 112 ORTG, 105 DRTG

LeBron > Kobe

well damn that was brutal

[SouBeachTalents]

Kobe won twice as many rings in the same era. I was comparing their individual production on the same team that season, and it looks like Lebron didn't do too well in the handcheck era :cry:
LeBron won more rings after he entered the league than Kobe did, they each won 2 rings in a 5 year span from 09-13

[G0ATbe]

LeBron: 27.6 PER, .235 WS/48, 116 ORTG, 103 DRTG
'01-'13 Kobe: 24.3 PER, .190 WS/48, 112 ORTG, 105 DRTG

LeBron > Kobe
https://i.makeagif.com/media/10-21-2015/wNfkiM.gif

[LAmbruh]

LeBron: 27.6 PER, .235 WS/48, 116 ORTG, 103 DRTG
'01-'13 Kobe: 24.3 PER, .190 WS/48, 112 ORTG, 105 DRTG

LeBron > Kobe

sent him off to the morgue

[madmax]

If LeBron had played with 2000-2002 Shaq, LeBron would have been the second best player on that team.

negative.
Lebron is all around a much more impactful player

[Bronbron23]

negative.
Lebron is all around a much more impactful player
Your crazy bro. If lebron was the same age as Kobe was he would absolutely be the second best player next to Shaq. Anyone who says otherwise dosnt know ball

[nashwade]

you swap lebron and Kobe from the start: Lebron would have 5 or 6 and Kobe would have 2.

/endthread

[Manny98]

Another day another W for the LeWin fam :applause:

https://media.giphy.com/media/l46CbUJPXiDPEkJcA/giphy.gif

[CodeBreaker]

If LeBron had played with 2000-2002 Shaq, LeBron would have been the second best player on that team.
Nope. 2012 LeBron would be the first option, and 2000 Shaq would be his lob partner receiving oops and dimes.

[kawhileonard2]

Nope. 2012 LeBron would be the first option, and 2000 Shaq would be his lob partner receiving oops and dimes.

Shaq would clearly be the 1st option. Hell Lebron was barely it over a declining Wade.

[ImKobe]

Nope. 2012 LeBron would be the first option, and 2000 Shaq would be his lob partner receiving oops and dimes.

Gotta love this argument, like Kobe was at his apex at age 21-23, and then this idiot puts peak Lebron into the argument. 2000-02 Shaq is a clear 2nd option to 06-08 Kobe, and he was a 2nd option in many of those games/series in the early 2000s with a younger Bean, who not only led a lot of the games in scoring & shot attempts, but also ran the offense.

[scuzzy]

Another day another W for the LeWin fam :applause:

https://media.giphy.com/media/l46CbUJPXiDPEkJcA/giphy.gif
https://media.giphy.com/media/l46CbUJPXiDPEkJcA/giphy.gif

[Shooter]

4 beats 2

Also this

https://i.postimg.cc/kGSrjPvJ/LeBron_James_Dominates.png

[Spurs m8]

Well we know LeTurnover ain't the best on his team now

[Spurs m8]

When are bron stans gonna realise averages have far more impact than padded longevity stats?

[Shooter]

When are bron stans gonna realise averages have far more impact than padded longevity stats?

Nope. We don't reward 1st round stat padders that quit early or failures like Allen Iverson. Please try again and think more before typing,

[Cold soul]

If LeBron had played with 2000-2002 Shaq, LeBron would have been the second best player on that team.

This is so true this was Shaq at the peak of his powers. LBJ would be #2 option to Shaq those years.

[bullettooth]

LeBron is definitely playing second fiddle alongside Anthony Davis.

[LAmbruh]

https://media.giphy.com/media/fvHHU1PPrjFA0EIO6m/giphy.gif

[Cold soul]

Jefferson must still be salty and bitter about 2002 NBA Finals losing to Shaq and Kobe. :lol

[3ball]

LeBron is definitely playing second fiddle alongside Anthony Davis.


Playoff PPG


11' Wade....... 24.5
11' Lebron..... 23.7

16' Kyrie...'..... 25.2
16' Lebron..... 26.2

20' AD............ 27.7
20' Lebron..... 27.6

21' AD............ 27.0
21' Lebron..... 20.8


Everyone in history needed an equal-scoring partner (1b) for most of their rings except the goat, who won 6 rings with a true 2nd option that averaged far less in every playoffs and had low statistical peak.

Teammate scoring matters because equal-scoring teammates attract equal defensive attention, so only MJ faced "1-man team" defensive attention for his entire career, (thus giving maximum integrity to his stats and rings).. Kenny Smith talks about MJ being the only 1-man show here (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4UF6Xx3F2Lo&t=01m54s).

Accordingly, rings with 2nd options are greater than rings with 1b's and Jordan has 4 more rings with 2nd options than anyone else in history - that's his irrefutable goat argument.