Did anyone have as much defensive help than MJ?

[Manny98]

Pippen - GOAT perimeter defender nuff said

Rodman - top 10 defensive player of all time + GOAT rebounder

Grant - all defense Draymond of the 90s

Ron Harper - a top 5 defensive point guard of all time

Name a player that had the luxury of playing with this many atg defenders I'll wait.

[3ball]

If MJ had the most defensive help ever, then why didn't he have multiple #1 defenses?

MJ and Pippen's excellence as perimeter defenders simply offset their league-worst rim protection, and allowed the Bulls to have the 7th, 4th, and 7th best defenses from 91-93'...

So Pippen wasn't this guy that gave the Bulls the best defense in the league - not even close - him and MJ simply gave the Bulls a good defense to accompany their goat offense (#2 and #5 all-time team ORtg in 92' and 91')

The Knicks had better defenders - Ewing, Oakley, X-man, Starks (all-defense), Greg anthony

Pistons obviously had better defenders - rodman, dumars, isiah, laimbeer, salley

97' Heat had better defenders - Alonzo, Majerle, PJ Brown, Voshon Leonard

98' Spurs had better defenders - Duncan, Robinson


There's a lot more but that's good for now

[72-10]

Grant was no slouch, but a typical Bulls box score from the early 90s reads: Jordan 3 steals, 2 blocked shots; Pippen 2 steals, 1 blocked shot; Grant 1 steal or blocked shot and nothing for anyone else. There's tons like this.

[Smoke117]

Grant was no slouch, but a typical Bulls box score from the early 90s reads: Jordan 3 steals, 2 blocked shots; Pippen 2 steals, 1 blocked shot; Grant 1 steal or blocked shot and nothing for anyone else. There's tons like this.

Horace Grant was a very good defensive player. One of the best defensive forwards of the 90s.

[TheMan]

Pippen - GOAT perimeter defender nuff said

Rodman - top 10 defensive player of all time + GOAT rebounder

Grant - all defense Draymond of the 90s

Ron Harper - a top 5 defensive point guard of all time

Name a player that had the luxury of playing with this many atg defenders I'll wait.
So insecure you won't even mention the only Bulls player that won a DPOY while rockin a Bulls uni...:roll:

[egokiller]

So insecure you won't even mention the only Bulls player that won a DPOY while rockin a Bulls uni...:roll:

:lol

No wonder why he has Lebron ranked 11th.

[Bawkish]

Pippen - GOAT perimeter defender nuff said

Rodman - top 10 defensive player of all time + GOAT rebounder

Grant - all defense Draymond of the 90s

Ron Harper - a top 5 defensive point guard of all time

Name a player that had the luxury of playing with this many atg defenders I'll wait.

wait, Lebron played with:

Shaq - MDE

Ben Wallace - top 5 GOAT defensive center of all time

Ray Allen - top 5 GOAT shooter

Kyrie - top 3 most clutch PG all time

DWade - top 3 GOAT shooting guard


MJ squad looked like sh*tty street ballers compared to Lebron's

[Spurs m8]

Jordan ethering Tranny on the daily

[ImKobe]

Pippen - GOAT perimeter defender nuff said

Rodman - top 10 defensive player of all time + GOAT rebounder

Grant - all defense Draymond of the 90s

Ron Harper - a top 5 defensive point guard of all time

Name a player that had the luxury of playing with this many atg defenders I'll wait.

Bruh.

Bulls went from 6th to 2nd on defense the season after Grant left. MJ's defenses were better during the 2nd three-peat on that end of the court. 91-93 Bulls were 4th-7th on defense vs the 96-98 Bulls being top 3 every year, they finished 3rd in '98 despite Jordan being 35 and Pippen missing half the season.

Harper was great earlier in his career but Jordan played with the post-injury/washed up version of Ron Harper.

[305Baller]

no. no one .

[GimmeThat]

so, he's not a gloat

[305Baller]

so, he's not a gloat

shut the ****kkk uppppp

[Manny98]

wait, Lebron played with:

Shaq - MDE

Ben Wallace - top 5 GOAT defensive center of all time

Ray Allen - top 5 GOAT shooter

Kyrie - top 3 most clutch PG all time

DWade - top 3 GOAT shooting guard


MJ squad looked like sh*tty street ballers compared to Lebron's
Shaq - old corpse

Allen - old corpse

Ben Wallace - old corpse

Kyrie - baby

Wade - couldn't even get past the first round until LeGod came and carried him to 4 straight finals :oldlol:

[Manny98]

If MJ had the most defensive help ever, then why didn't he have multiple #1 defenses?

MJ and Pippen's excellence as perimeter defenders simply offset their league-worst rim protection, and allowed the Bulls to have the 7th, 4th, and 7th best defenses from 91-93'...

So Pippen wasn't this guy that gave the Bulls the best defense in the league - not even close - him and MJ simply gave the Bulls a good defense to accompany their goat offense (#2 and #5 all-time team ORtg in 92' and 91')

The Knicks had better defenders - Ewing, Oakley, X-man, Starks (all-defense), Greg anthony

Pistons obviously had better defenders - rodman, dumars, isiah, laimbeer, salley

97' Heat had better defenders - Alonzo, Majerle, PJ Brown, Voshon Leonard

98' Spurs had better defenders - Duncan, Robinson


There's a lot more but that's good for now
Wait you mean to tell me the "GOAT" had two top 10 defenders of all time and not once ever had a team rank number 1 in defense?

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[superduper]

:lol

No wonder why he has Lebron ranked 11th.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Phoenix]

Did Scottie and Horace come into the league as can't miss prospects? Yes, Scottie was the 5th pick, he was also a 7ppg rookie. Same with Horace. Because they 'grew' into standout defenders over time doesn't mean they were luxuries. What kind of defensive player does Pip become if he's not defending MJ in practice? Or are we still acting like his development occurred solely in a bubble?

[Manny98]

Did Scottie and Horace come into the league as can't miss prospects? Yes, Scottie was the 5th pick, he was also a 7ppg rookie. Same with Horace. Because they 'grew' into standout defenders over time doesn't mean they were luxuries. What kind of defensive player does Pip become if he's not defending MJ in practice? Or are we still acting like his development occurred solely in a bubble?
What a bunch of gibberish I'm tired of this stupid narrative that Pippen only became a GOAT defender because he had to defend MJ

He's an atg defender because of his physical gifts and natural ability to play defense. MJ had f*ck all to do with that

No one says Kawhi was a great defender because he defended Manu in practice or LeBron from guarding Hughes in practice only MJ stans say stupid shit like this :facepalm

[Hey Yo]

Did Scottie and Horace come into the league as can't miss prospects? Yes, Scottie was the 5th pick, he was also a 7ppg rookie. Same with Horace. Because they 'grew' into standout defenders over time doesn't mean they were luxuries. What kind of defensive player does Pip become if he's not defending MJ in practice? Or are we still acting like his development occurred solely in a bubble?
Why didn't Phil make Hodges, Paxson, Armstrong etc... guard him once Phil saw that MJ was the main reason and solely responsible for making Scottie the shutdown defender he became?

[bigkingsfan]

Bulls replaced MJ with Pete Myers and their D improved.

[Phoenix]

What a bunch of gibberish I'm tired of this stupid narrative that Pippen only became a GOAT defender because he had to defend MJ

He's an atg defender because of his physical gifts and natural ability to play defense. MJ had f*ck all to do with that

No one says Kawhi was a great defender because he defended Manu in practice or LeBron from guarding Hughes in practice only MJ stans say stupid shit like this :facepalm

Nobody is arguing that he didn't have the innate talent. Those talents were harnessed playing with and against MJ. The point remains, it's not a 'luxury' to draft rookies who happen to pan out. I mean Horace Grant was the 10th pick, nobody picked at that point is coming into the league with tremendous expectations unless it's an incredibly deep pool of talent. Scottie was a lottery pick but he was considered a project. There's no guarantee he pans out as he did and as I said, it's not like he came into the league setting the world on fire. So piss off with this 'luxury' bullshit. Scottie's actually one of my favorite players so I have vested interest in speaking honestly and accordingly about him, having seen most of his career, then inbreeds like you who use him to diminish MJ and were probably swimming around in your dad's nut**** when Pip was in his prime.

[Phoenix]

Why didn't Phil make Hodges, Paxson, Armstrong etc... guard him once Phil saw that MJ was the main reason and solely responsible for making Scottie the shutdown defender he became?

And the same basic reply to you as to Tranny98. Nobody is arguing that he didn't have the natural talent. Pippen had natural talent and athletic ability to do things that less marginal talents, like the ones you mentioned, didn't have the natural talent and aptitude for. That doesn't mean those talents weren't improved upon playing next to MJ. Why do you think it's pretty much common knowledge that he took Pip under his wing, roughed him up in practice, and the like? He saw things in Pippen that clearly wasn't there in John Fukking Paxson. I mean this is pretty obvious shit I'm saying. You guys treat it like it's an insult.

[egokiller]

Why didn't Phil make Hodges, Paxson, Armstrong etc... guard him once Phil saw that MJ was the main reason and solely responsible for making Scottie the shutdown defender he became?

Because Pippen had more length so he was a better core for MJ to mold. Pax didn't want MJ distributing his time evenly between 4 players to mold them in a half ass fashion, as it would result in a lesser impact than putting what time he had into just 1 player. Only so much time in a day that's why there are records with MJ molding Pippen at his house everyday before practice.

Where are the records for Lebron practicing with a teammate every day at his house? Exactly. They don't exist because he wasn't as focused on winning as MJ was. Hence 6 wins vs 6 losses. :lol

[DaHeezy]

Grant was no slouch, but a typical Bulls box score from the early 90s reads: Jordan 3 steals, 2 blocked shots; Pippen 2 steals, 1 blocked shot; Grant 1 steal or blocked shot and nothing for anyone else. There's tons like this.

The fact that you posted this shows you're a younger adult with no actually insight of 90's basketball.

[DaHeezy]

LOL at the narrative MJ "created" Pippen into a defensive monster. Pippen was touted for his defense straight out of college like how Mattysse is viewed in this past draft. Pippen was drafted 5th, and wasn't because he could score.

[RRR3]

LOL at the narrative MJ "created" Pippen into a defensive monster. Pippen was touted for his defense straight out of college like how Mattysse is viewed in this past draft. Pippen was drafted 5th, and wasn't because he could score.
Jordan stans will stop at nothing to discredit Pippen.

[guy]

Jordan stans will stop at nothing to discredit Pippen.

How does it discredit Pippen? It just shouldn

[72-10]

The fact that you posted this shows you're a younger adult with no actually insight of 90's basketball.

No, I'm just pointing out that, in the early 90s, Grant did not have the defensive impact that Pippen had, and Pippen did not have the defensive impact that Jordan had.

[72-10]

LOL at the narrative MJ "created" Pippen into a defensive monster. Pippen was touted for his defense straight out of college like how Mattysse is viewed in this past draft. Pippen was drafted 5th, and wasn't because he could score.

And then Pippen became a defensive monster by practicing against Jordan in practice. Pip was kind of a raw athlete dude, with a lot of unpolished skills.

[DaHeezy]

No, I'm just pointing out that, in the early 90s, Grant did not have the defensive impact that Pippen had, and Pippen did not have the defensive impact that Jordan had.

No, you got your insight from statlines. You compared per game steals and blocks. Shows you don't have insight on how impactful Grant was.

[DaHeezy]

[QUOTE=guy]How does it discredit Pippen? It just shouldn

[DaHeezy]

And then Pippen became a defensive monster by practicing against Jordan in practice. Pip was kind of a raw athlete dude, with a lot of unpolished skills.

Lol, he was unpolished as an offensive player. His defense put him on the map to get selected at number 5. Jordan may have refined his skill, but he didn't "create" them. A skillset like Pippen's would have always translated just like Kawhi Leonard's did. In fact, they are identical in terms of how they were scouted. Good lateral athlete, long arms, big hands, knack for staying on the ball. Did Jordan create that in college?

[72-10]

No, you got your insight from statlines. You compared per game steals and blocks. Shows you don't have insight on how impactful Grant was.

Quite frankly I got a lot of it from retroactively watching vids and highlights.

NBA All-Defensive Team voting:
(first team votes) total points
1990
Grant: did not make team
Pippen: did not make team
Jordan: (17) 37 - makes first team

1991 (max points: 52)
Grant: (0) 0
Pippen: (3) 14 - makes second team
Jordan: (14) 37 - makes first team

1992 (max points: 52)
Grant: (2) 11 - fifth among forwards in the league
Pippen: (13) 31 - makes first team
Jordan: (23) 49 - makes first team, Rodman of Detroit gets 50 points

1993 (max points: 52)
Grant: (6) 13 - makes second team
Pippen: (12) 32 - makes first team
Jordan: (25) 51 - makes first team, leading vote-getter

[guy]

It discredits Pippen by saying Jordan "made" Pippen. Like Pippen was some sort of untalented project. It's a Jordaneer myth narrative

Not really. Whether he was untalented project or not doesn

[DaHeezy]

Quite frankly I got a lot of it from retroactively watching vids and highlights.

NBA All-Defensive Team voting:
(first team votes) total points
1990
Grant: did not make team
Pippen: did not make team
Jordan: (17) 37 - makes first team

1991 (max points: 52)
Grant: (0) 0
Pippen: (3) 14 - makes second team
Jordan: (14) 37 - makes first team

1992 (max points: 52)
Grant: (2) 11 - fifth among forwards in the league
Pippen: (13) 31 - makes first team
Jordan: (23) 49 - makes first team, Rodman of Detroit gets 50 points

1993 (max points: 52)
Grant: (6) 13 - makes second team
Pippen: (12) 32 - makes first team
Jordan: (25) 51 - makes first team, leading vote-getter


You're doing EXACTLY what I'm saying. Getting all your insight from stats. Lol, you really don't have actual insight

[DaHeezy]

[QUOTE=guy]Not really. Whether he was untalented project or not doesn

[guy]

You missed the point.
The narrative going around is Jordan "created" Pippen, not "influenced" him. It's the narrative that builds the myth. I have no issue saying Jordan refined Pippen's defensive skills. But like I said in another thread, Pippen had a defensive skillset that would have translated anyways. Pretty much a clone of Kawhi out of college.

Created vs influenced is semantics. Bottom line is there were people around the league at the time that have said stuff along the lines that Jordan made Pippen and Pippen wouldn

[Smoke117]

And then Pippen became a defensive monster by practicing against Jordan in practice. Pip was kind of a raw athlete dude, with a lot of unpolished skills.

Scottie has one of the greatest BBIQ's ever. That's part of what made him so great on the defensive end. There are stories of how he'd call out a play an opposing team was gonna run even before they decided to run it.

[DaHeezy]

[QUOTE=guy]Created vs influenced is semantics. Bottom line is there were people around the league at the time that have said stuff along the lines that Jordan made Pippen and Pippen wouldn

[Turbo Slayer]

If it's all created vs influenced is all semantics then Julius Erving created Jordan. Tex Winters created Jordan because he invented the triangle.

And to say Pippen wouldn't ever be as close to the player he was without Jordan is a huge exaggeration. His skillset was gonna translate regardless. He was the 5th overall pick for Christ sales. Again, like the sentiment has been shared all over the board, by those standards EVERYONE who played with Jordan should be better.
:applause:

[Overdrive]

Wade - couldn't even get past the first round until LeGod came and carried him to 4 straight finals :oldlol:

:lol :lol :lol

[Turbo Slayer]

:lol :lol :lol
:lol

[Smoke117]

If it's all created vs influenced is all semantics then Julius Erving created Jordan. Tex Winters created Jordan because he invented the triangle.

And to say Pippen wouldn't ever be as close to the player he was without Jordan is a huge exaggeration. His skillset was gonna translate regardless. He was the 5th overall pick for Christ sales. Again, like the sentiment has been shared all over the board, by those standards EVERYONE who played with Jordan should be better.

As I've noted before, Jack McCloskey, the GM of the Pistons at the time, called Pippen a future superstar and was furiously trying to trade up for him. It's interesting to think how things would have turned out if he had ended up on the Pistons.

[Manny98]

[QUOTE=guy]How does it discredit Pippen? It just shouldn

[Turbo Slayer]

Agreed MJ learnt to play defense from having to defend George Gervin in practice so Gervin molded MJ :applause:
Damn right he did!

[3ball]

If it's all created vs influenced is all semantics then Julius Erving created Jordan. Tex Winters created Jordan because he invented the triangle.

And to say Pippen wouldn't ever be as close to the player he was without Jordan is a huge exaggeration. His skillset was gonna translate regardless. He was the 5th overall pick for Christ sales. Again, like the sentiment has been shared all over the board, by those standards EVERYONE who played with Jordan should be better.
C'monson, MJ isn't developing complete stiffs into all-time greats

A player needs to be decent enough on their own for MJ to elevate them to all-time great and 6x champ

For example, guys like Sellers and Kwame weren't even good enough to be Jeff Green on their own (Green was a 15-17 ppg player in his best years) - whereas Pippen would be Jeff Green without MJ, and a 6x champ and HOF with MJ .. :confusedshrug:

[Manny98]

C'monson, MJ isn't developing complete stiffs into all-time greats

A player needs to be decent enough on their own for MJ to elevate them to all-time great and 6x champ

For example, guys like Sellers and Kwame weren't even good enough to be Jeff Green on their own (Green was a 15-17 ppg player in his best years) -whereas Pippen would be Jeff Green without MJ, and a 6x champ and HOF with MJ .. :confusedshrug:
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[3ball]

Y


:roll: :roll: :roll:


Pippen was equal or worse than Jeff Green in many series:



1988 PLAYOFFS:. 10.0 on 46.5%

1989 PLAYOFFS:. 13.1 on 46.2% (9.7 on 40.4% in ecf)

1990 ECF. vs. DET:. 16.6 on 42.8% (2 pts, 1-10 in game 7)

1992 ECSF vs NYN:. 16.0 on 40.2%

1995 ECSF vs ORL:. 19.0 on 40.9%

1996 ECSF vs NYN:. 15.6 on 33.0%
1996 FINAL vs SEA:. 15.7 on 34.3%

1997 RD 1 vs WAS:. 16.7 on 38.3%
1997 ECF. vs. MIA:. 16.8 on 41.7%

1998 ECFS vsN IND:. 16.6 on 39.2%
1998 FINAL vs UTA:. 15.7 on 41.0%


^^^^ that was WITH Jordan and a goat system, so I shudder to think what pippen would be without MJ and the championship system they developed.... Yikes...

It's hard to imagine him being worse than 15 on 33% - is it even possible to be worse?
.

[Round Mound]

Jodan had the best defensively help of any superstar in the 90's

[3ball]

Jodan had the best defensively help of any superstar in the 90's
So why did the Bulls only rank 7th, 4th, and 7th defensively in the 1st three-peat?

they had among the worst rim protection in the league, but MJ/Pippen's great perimeter defense offset this and allowed defenses that usually ranked 7th...

In the 2nd three-peat, the Bulls were 1st, 4th, and 3rd defensively

Ultimately, MJ and Pip's perimeter defense gave the Bulls "very good" defenses, but not the best because many other teams had superior bigs and rim protection.. The Bulls' "very good" defenses accompanied their goat offenses (four #1 offenses, including the #2, #5, #12 and #16 all-time team ORtg's)

[AirBonner]

So why did they only rank 7th, 4th, and 7th defensively in the 1st three-peat?

They had the worst rim protection in the league, but MJ/Pippen's great perimeter defense offset this and allowed defenses that usually ranked 7th...

In the 2nd three-peat, the Bulls were 1st, 4th, and 3rd defensively

Ultimately, MJ/Pippen's perimeter defense gave the Bulls "very good" defenses, but not the best because many other teams had superior bigs and rim protection.. The Bulls' "very good" defenses accompanied their goat offenses (four #1 offenses, including the #2, #5, #12 and #16 all-time team ORtg's)
Why did they rank higher with Pete Myers :confusedshrug:

[3ball]

Why did they rank higher with Pete Myers :confusedshrug:
They didn't

They ranked 6th, which equals their average rank from 91-93' (7th, 4th, 7th)

And Pete Myers was a long and good defender - he was infact a defensive player who could focus exclusively on defense, while living off the system on offense

[guy]

If it's all created vs influenced is all semantics then Julius Erving created Jordan. Tex Winters created Jordan because he invented the triangle.

And to say Pippen wouldn't ever be as close to the player he was without Jordan is a huge exaggeration. His skillset was gonna translate regardless. He was the 5th overall pick for Christ sales. Again, like the sentiment has been shared all over the board, by those standards EVERYONE who played with Jordan should be better.

Not really apples to apples given that Dr. J didn

[guy]

Agreed MJ learnt to play defense from having to defend George Gervin in practice so Gervin molded MJ :applause:

Sure, if people around them actually claimed that, I wouldn’t have a reason to think they were making that up. And it wouldn’t make Jordan any less of a great defender.

[DaHeezy]

[QUOTE=guy]Not really apples to apples given that Dr. J didn

[guy]

You're playing with semantics you get apples to apples. That's what I was illustrating. You're defending a point where I said creating and influencing are different. So it's only different if it was Jordan who was influenced?

Go ahead and use some more semantics. Bottom line, Pippen had a skill that would have translated with or without Jordan.

You can call it created or influenced. I don

[DaHeezy]

[QUOTE=guy]You can call it created or influenced. I don

[Bawkish]

Wade - couldn't even get past the first round until LeGod came and carried him to 4 straight finals :oldlol:

:lol :lol :lol

pls tell me you're trolling

[DaHeezy]

As I've noted before, Jack McCloskey, the GM of the Pistons at the time, called Pippen a future superstar and was furiously trying to trade up for him. It's interesting to think how things would have turned out if he had ended up on the Pistons.

Well obviously nothing because he didn't have Jordan. It's not like the coach who changed defense forever could mold Pippen. Or learning toughness along side Zeke and Rodman could influence Pippen. Or studying Dumars. Or getting abused by Dantley. Nope. Only MJ could have "created" Pippen.

[Manny98]

:lol :lol :lol

pls tell me you're trolling
From 07-10 the four years before teaming up with LeBron Wade couldn't get past the first round

Wade has won a whopping 1 playoff series his entire career without a top 5 GOAT on his team (LeBron & Shaq) :oldlol:

[superduper]

[QUOTE=guy]Sure, if people around them actually claimed that, I wouldn

[guy]

It is when you say it in semantics. Then really it is the same. But continue going in circles and contridict yourself. Jordan himself said he Julius influenced him. So in regards to semantics Julius created him. If you use your semantics argument then that's not a debatable statement.

Again, you missed the point of what the real flavor of the month argument is. What you're doing is trying to passively perpetuate the Jordan myth. Which is Jordan created Pippen.

Like I said, I don

[DaHeezy]

[QUOTE=guy]Like I said, I don

[guy]

As I predicted this would go in circles. You missed the point completely. Bottom line you're passively reiterating what the flavor of the month topic is which is Jordan created Pippen. Go ahead and try to defend your semantics point. It's irrelevant at this point. Good try trying to sidetrack though.

I should just save you the time and copy and paste your last post. Because that's pretty much what you're going to do next.

You

[Phoenix]

Pippen had the tools, talentwise, physical makeup and IQ to be an elite defender. Practicing against one of the GOAT offensive players would have enhanced things that were inherently there. And once Pip got to 'that' point as a defender, it would have benefitted MJ as well because no other perimeter defender in the league would have been more capable of defending MJ than prime Pip himself. By definition at their peaks it was a symbiotic pairing with a distinct pecking order.

[DaHeezy]

You’re bringing up comparisons that I don’t necessarily even disagree with - Dr J absolutely deserves credit for influencing great players after him and Tex absolutely deserves credit to come up with a championship offense that makes already all-time great players even better - it’s just that’s it not the same type of comparison.

Jordan had a huge impact on Pippen’s growth and development working with him every day. I’m not passive about it. It’s not a flavor of the month, it’s a fact. There are multiple accounts of this. Those are facts. Doesn’t take anything from Pippen. If people are saying it should, they are wrong. But it shouldn’t take anything away from Jordan either. When people bring up Pippen’s successes as a way to downplay Jordan or say he had more help then so and so, it doesn’t make any sense since he had a huge hand in getting Pippen to that point in the first place. It’s a circular argument. If people want to say the same things about Kareem/Magic, Magic/Worthy, Bird/McHale, Isiah/Dumars, Dr. J/Barkley, Shaq/Kobe, Duncan/Robinson, Durant/Westbrook, Curry/Klay, etc they can say that. But there’s just not an abundance of first-hand accounts of this that can be cited as evidence that there was a relationship like this to the extent that it was for Jordan/Pippen.

This is just wall of text saying Jordan created Pippen. Just a long articulated way to say well it doesn't take away from Pippen, but Jordan DID create him. It's patronizing. It's a transparent Jordan bias. Sorry, not buying what you're trying to sell.

[DaHeezy]

Pippen had the tools, talentwise, physical makeup and IQ to be an elite defender. Practicing against one of the GOAT offensive players would have enhanced things that were inherently there. And once Pip got to 'that' point as a defender, it would have benefitted MJ as well because no other perimeter defender in the league would have been more capable of defending MJ than prime Pip himself. By definition at their peaks it was a symbiotic pairing with a distinct pecking order.

A much more accurate depiction as opposed to the passive bias people are trying to sell. Great way to sum it up. :applause:

You can't just isolate it to Jordan. I firmly believe Pippen would have Pippen in the Piston environment. Or alongside offensive talents that could have pushed him. Or playing with the Knicks or Pacers of the early 90's. Pippen had all the tools to thrive as a defensive player.

[paksat]

did anyone have as much offensive help as lebronze?

like 10 hall of famers on his team :lol