Guys like Iggy, Pippen, Odom, Manu are real sidekicks

[FultzNationRISE]

These are players that compliment a scorer perfectly and actually help teams win basketball games.


Guys like Bosh, Love, Irving, and post-prime Wade (the version LBJ played with) are just second-rate volume scorers who dont impact winning. Theyre guys you stick on a bad team in a small market to sell tickets. They appeal to fans who just wanna show up to watch someone “famous” score points. Theyre basically Carmelos.

Theyre actually LESS valuable to a superstar player than true second options. They just eat up possessions with inefficient shooting and do nothing else.

Lebron never played with a truly first class second option. He’s always had to carry ‘star’ imposters. It’s a much more difficult task.

[TheMan]

[QUOTE=FultzNationRISE]These are players that compliment a scorer perfectly and actually help teams win basketball games.


Guys like Bosh, Love, Irving, and post-prime Wade (the version LBJ played with) are just second-rate volume scorers who dont impact winning. Theyre guys you stick on a bad team in a small market to sell tickets. They appeal to fans who just wanna show up to watch someone

[RRR3]

Yeah Wade was totally past his prime in 2011 and 2012.


:rolleyes:

[FultzNationRISE]

I don't agree with your opinion but you can blame LeGM for that.

Just curious, give me a few true sidekicks that would've been ideal for LBJ? And I mean players from this era, not including the ones on your OP since they were already on other teams.


Well the ones in the OP were the best of their eras, so they make ideal sidekicks for anyone.

Others would include:

Marion
Gasol (either one)
Kidd
Klay


Etc etc


Bron never played with a dude who was actually suited to be a second option. At least none who were in their primes at the time.

[FultzNationRISE]

If you already have a lead alpha, having an elite second option is far more valuable than having another redundant, lower tier “go-to” guy.

It’s common sense.

[Ainosterhaspie]

I don't agree with your opinion but you can blame LeGM for that.

Just curious, give me a few true sidekicks that would've been ideal for LBJ? And I mean players from this era, not including the ones on your OP since they were already on other teams.
Oddly enough he's playing with two such guys right now, Danny Green and Anthony Davis though Green is a little old now. Davis is a star no doubt, but one who's game is more suited to playing next to LeBron than Bosh and Love.

Korver, Horford, Klay Thompson, Lowry, Battier are some examples of other guys that would be great fits next to LeBron. CP3 would as well though he is a star. He could play well off ball next to LeBron and would be able to run the offense well setting up guys including LeBron. CP3 isn't the sort of guy OP is describing. He's a guy whose been the main guy much of his career, but is more suited to being the 1b.


Regarding Love, Bosh and Davis...

The biggest problem with Love was his defense. Offensively he was a really useful contributor who sacrificed the unneeded parts of his game so the team could be better. He could rebound and shoot the three, two skills that don't work together to well. When he's doing one he's taking himself out of position to do the other. He wasn't as good inside as Irving and James so why feature him there? He never won that way. Use what is useful, don't waste time on the rest.

Bosh is basically a poor man's version of Davis. Does most of the same things just not nearly as well. Again he was a third option and the things he was best at weren't that useful. Not as good inside as James and Wade and spaced best with mid range jumpers, the least efficient way to score. Davis is a better finisher, bigger roll threat and better defender.

Elite big men typically need an elite peremiter guy to really open their game. KAJ with Magic/Oscar, Shaq with Kobe/Wade are examples of this. James should unlock Davis.

[RRR3]

Bosh actually worked well with LeBron. He just got relegated to 3rd option with LeBron and Wade. I remember there was a span of like 14-15 games Wade missed in the first half of the 2011-2012 season and Bosh was putting up like 25 PPG next to LeBron.

[AlternativeAcc.]

This is 1000% accurate.


Guys like Pau and Klay/Dray are far superior to the likes of Irving and washed up Wade. Low IQ fans can't comprehend this though.

[scuzzy]

2004 Odom would be a killer in todays positionless game

He was a superior passer for a big and could run the floor with the quickest gaurds

His offensive arsenal and 3pt range was terrifying to defend. If he played with a guy like Lebron people would be calling him KD 2.0

People forget that this guy was traded for Shaq in hopes to be a replacement. He was making Olympic squads and SI covers long before he even got to Miami

[Smoke117]

You realize Wade had his most efficient seasons of his career playing alongside LeBron, right? How exactly does that make him a high volume scorer? That's beside the point that when he was healthy he was also a very good defensive player and was always a good playmaker. OP is a dumb ass.

[ImKobe]

Just when I thought Lebron stans couldn't get any more retarded on this site.

[SouBeachTalents]

Why are y'all nikka's giving this dude serious answers :oldlol: By responding to such obvious troll threads, you only give him motivation to continue making them

[Turbo Slayer]

Why are y'all nikka's giving this dude serious answers :oldlol: By responding to such obvious troll threads, you only give him motivation to continue making them
:roll: true tho.

[superduper]

OP must have a great grasp of life

[FultzNationRISE]

Why are y'all nikka's giving this dude serious answers :oldlol: By responding to such obvious troll threads, you only give him motivation to continue making them


....


....Can I see you in my office for a minute?

[sammichoffate]

Why are y'all nikka's giving this dude serious answers :oldlol: By responding to such obvious troll threads, you only give him motivation to continue making themThis, nearly all the threads on this godforsaken site are his or his alts.

[RRR3]

This, nearly all the threads on this godforsaken site are his or his alts.
This isn’t dubeta/Dray n Klay/etc this is Starface/akrazotile

[3ball]

Why can't people understand that if Lebron doesn't fit with a certain player, that's HIS fault for not having the game to fit with them?.. It's a knock that he's only elite with a live dribble (ball-dominance), and therefore only fits well with spot-up shooters.

Of course, people will say "who else would you rather have the ball?"

The answer is "anyone" because players actually control the game more by FINISHING many possessions, thereby personally controlling the result, aka being the judge, jury, and executioner of the possession...

Look at MJ - he got up more shot attempts and controlled games more by finishing as many possessions as possible - this method controlled games more than being the dribbler all the time... similarly, when Curry is at his best, he controls the game by FINISHING many possessions

In addition to controlling the game more, finishing possessions lets teammates pass you the ball, which helps their playmaking - Wade or Kyrie can play to their strength as ball-handlers, or Bosh/Love can be real threats before letting lebron "close" the possession

Ultimately, this skill deficit (Lebron's lack of play-finishing off-ball) puts a ceiling on his teams, since only shooters excel alongside his dribbling, while also limiting Lebron's ability to control possessions/games

Being able to control games by handling the rock AND selectively finishing possessions when needed (and it might be needed a lot) controls games better than only being the dribbler - it controls games better while also allowing a superior brand where everyone gets to move the ball, rather than 1 guy dribbling.. this skill gap (dribbling vs a mix of dribbling and finishing) is the difference between 3/9 and 6/6

[FultzNationRISE]

Why can't people understand that if Lebron doesn't fit with a certain player, that's HIS fault for not having the game to fit with them?.. It's a knock that he's only elite with a live dribble (ball-dominance), and therefore only fits well with spot-up shooters.

Of course, people will say "who else would you rather have the ball?"

The answer is "anyone" because players actually control the game more by FINISHING many possessions, thereby personally controlling the result, aka being the judge, jury, and executioner of the possession...

Look at MJ - he got up more shot attempts and controlled games more by finishing as many possessions as possible - this method controlled games more than being the dribbler all the time... similarly, when Curry is at his best, he controls the game by FINISHING many possessions

In addition to controlling the game more, finishing possessions lets teammates pass you the ball, which helps their playmaking - Wade or Kyrie can play to their strength as ball-handlers, or Bosh/Love can be real threats before letting lebron "close" the possession

Ultimately, this skill deficit (Lebron's lack of play-finishing off-ball) puts a ceiling on his teams, since only shooters excel alongside his dribbling, while also limiting Lebron's ability to control possessions/games

Being able to control games by handling the rock AND selectively finishing possessions when needed (and it might be needed a lot) controls games better than only being the dribbler - it controls games better while also allowing a superior brand where everyone gets to move the ball, rather than 1 guy dribbling.. this skill gap (dribbling vs a mix of dribbling and finishing) is the difference between 3/9 and 6/6


You're missing the point completely.

LeHung James played the hardest run of Finals opponents in NBA history, and he's got more titles than Hakeem. More FMVPs than Kobe. Greater numbers than Jordan.

Nobody is making excuses. Lebron doesnt NEED to make excuses. He HAS achieved. His accolades have been EARNED, NOT GIVEN.

But the point is he did all of this with a sub-optimal cast of players, compared to what other Top 14 players had to work with. By far sub-optimal. And against the greatest series of Finals opponents anyone has ever faced.

Get it??

[3ball]

Why can't people understand that if Lebron doesn't fit with a certain player, that's HIS fault for not having the game to fit with them?.. It's a knock that he's only elite with a live dribble (ball-dominance), and therefore only fits well with spot-up shooters.

Of course, people will say "who else would you rather have the ball?"

The answer is "anyone" because players actually control the game more by FINISHING many possessions, thereby personally controlling the result, aka being the judge, jury, and executioner of the possession...

Look at MJ - he got up more shot attempts and controlled games more by finishing as many possessions as possible - this method controlled games more than being the dribbler all the time... similarly, when Curry is at his best, he controls the game by FINISHING many possessions

In addition to controlling the game more, finishing possessions lets teammates pass you the ball, which helps their playmaking - Wade or Kyrie can play to their strength as ball-handlers, or Bosh/Love can be real threats before letting lebron "close" the possession

Ultimately, this skill deficit (Lebron's lack of play-finishing off-ball) puts a ceiling on his teams, since only shooters excel alongside his dribbling, while also limiting Lebron's ability to control possessions/games

Being able to control games by handling the rock AND selectively finishing possessions when needed (and it might be needed a lot) controls games better than only being the dribbler - it controls games better while also allowing a superior brand where everyone gets to move the ball, rather than 1 guy dribbling.. this skill gap (dribbling vs a mix of dribbling and finishing) is the difference between 3/9 and 6/6

For example, Pippen is a non-shooting ball-handler - the worst fit for Lebron's dribble skillset - so lebron would have zero rings with pip and it's unlikely pip develops into a HOF.
.

[FultzNationRISE]

You're missing the point completely.

LeHung James played the hardest run of Finals opponents in NBA history, and he's got more titles than Hakeem. More FMVPs than Kobe. Greater numbers than Jordan.

Nobody is making excuses. Lebron doesnt NEED to make excuses. He HAS achieved. His accolades have been EARNED, NOT GIVEN.

But the point is he did all of this with a sub-optimal cast of players, compared to what other Top 14 players had to work with. By far sub-optimal. And against the greatest series of Finals opponents anyone has ever faced.

Get it??

[3ball]

But the point is he did all of this with a sub-optimal cast of players,


Because his game is suboptimal and incomplete

he's only elite on-ball, and therefore only fits well with spot-up shooters.

Otoh, guys like Curry, MJ, and Kobe never had suboptimal casts because they were dominant on-ball and off-ball, so they fit with everyone





His accolades have been EARNED, NOT GIVEN


He never won organically because his on-ball skillset turns teammates into spot-up shooters, which doesn't develop teammates or teams... So he needed to team-hop for ready made stars and teams - his dribble-only skillset forces him to team-hop





Nobody is making excuses.

His accolades have been EARNED, NOT GIVEN


Which path is harder:


1) Obtaining contender and favorite status by developing teammates, teamwork, and brand over numerous years

2) Landing on teams favored to win the Finals in Year 1 of existence


Indeed, Lebron's 2011 and 2015 teams were pre-season and pre-playoffs favorites to win the championship





he's got more titles than Hakeem. More FMVPs than Kobe.


Those guys would destroy Lebron in titles if they team-hopped every few years to play with the hottest studs in the league like Lebron did

You lebron fans are a joke when you cite his ring count, as if any tom, dick, or harry wouldn't win rings but by teaming up with all the best players in the league... :rolleyes:





Greater numbers than Jordan.


Career totals measure longevity, not DEGREE of domination...

Per game stats measure degree of domination, and MJ did more per game, so his stats are superior

MJ is the all-time leader in PPG and efficiency rating - Lebron has no statistical argument that is better





LeHung James played the hardest run of Finals opponents in NBA history


Cut the crap

Everyone knows that his "not 6, not 7" Heat had the most talent in the league from 2011-2014, and his 2016 Cavs saw their 2nd option demolish the Warriors' 1st option...

In other words, Lebron had Big 3 superteams and can't complain about facing talent deficits - it's his opponents that can complain about facing talent deficits to his colluded, stacked deck teams

Ultimately, Lebron had his own Big 3's and only faced a talent deficit in 07', 15', and 18'...

17' is debatable and the goat is supposed to make up for differences anyway - the fact that he never did shows he isn't the goat.. the only talent deficit he overcame was the 2007 ECF, and MJ overcame much bigger talent deficits then that - let me know if you need me to specify with all the relevant stats and proof

[Mr Feeny]

Who is a better sidekick?
2011 Lebron or prime Manu?

Anyone?

[insidehoops]

A big test with this elite sidekick stuff is if the team had a third best player that was close to the second... or if there was a huge dropoff after that number two guy