Is Tom Brady the GOAT?

[Turbo Slayer]

Title.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Yes, Tom Brady is the greatest Basketball Player of All Time.

[Turbo Slayer]

Yes, Tom Brady is the greatest Basketball Player of All Time.
No doubt he's the goat.

[scuzzy]

In a sport filled with enormous gladiators, I think he's the most skilled player of all time.

He makes being a quarterback and patiently sitting in the pocket look so easy. His passing are just precision accuracy and he always comes out with big drives game after game, season after season, roster after roster.

It's depressing as a Browns fan who's had a half dozen top QB picks the past couple decades

I think it's depressing for any NFL fan franchise not named Patriots. He's just really consistent it sucks to be on the other end

[ArbitraryWater]

Is this the NBA forum?

[imdaman99]

Yeah probably. But because of that, Eli is gonna make the HOF for beating him twice. I'll take it.

[Bosnian Sajo]

Can we just get ahead of this and ban OP? Painfully obvious alt. Just get rid of him and spare us yet another alt.

[scuzzy]

Has he ever mentioned coaching after retiring?

I think he will, film rats like Brady need that mental competition.

He'll be a great replacement to Freddie Kitchens

[eliteballer]

In his era alone you can argue manning Mahomes Rodgers brees are more talented

[DaHeezy]

Nothing against Turbo Slayer. I actually find him comical. But ISH is a breeding ground for posters like him. Before we lynch the kid maybe we need to take accountability for ourselves and the culture we create here.

[jlip]

Can we just get ahead of this and ban OP? Painfully obvious alt. Just get rid of him and spare us yet another alt.


This.

But I think I already see where the OP is trying to go with this. If my suspicion is correct then the thread is basketball related.

[DaHeezy]

Can we just get ahead of this and ban OP? Painfully obvious alt. Just get rid of him and spare us yet another alt.

Why though? Despite the alt what does he do that's any different than what your boy AirZuki does? Both are antagonizers. AirZuki even admitted he loves trolling and the reactions he gets from it.
Can't have double standards in this scenario.

[LAmbruh]

He's a much better QB in the NFL, than guys like Hornacek/Jordan were at being SG's in the NBA



LeBrady, delivering the two most iconic championship comebacks in sports histgory just 7 months apart :bowdown:

[Mask the Embiid]

https://media0.giphy.com/media/26vIfs1eM4fxxCl0I/giphy.gif
https://media.giphy.com/media/xT0xeszAfl0kFPlgKQ/giphy.gif


Just imagine whats going on up there :eek:

[ImKobe]

In his era alone you can argue manning Mahomes Rodgers brees are more talented

Talent doesn't = GOAT

Brady worked himself from one of the last QBs in his draft to GOAT status and that did not just happen by chance. We've seen plenty of more "talented" QBs who made big mistakes in the biggest games, which Rodgers and Brees have done plenty of times, as well as Peyton Manning and guys like Brett Favre.

And it's funny you bring up Rodgers, who has never thrown for as many TDs or yards as Brady in a single season. Brady at age 42 is on pace to have 4000+ yards for the 11th time in his career, he'd have done it 11 times already if not for Deflategate.

Brady has gone to 9 SBs and won 6 with 6 game-winning drives. Lost one where he put his team up late before the miracle Tyree catch happened, lost another where he passed for over 500 yards but got no help from his defense. Brady's record and consistency over his 19-year career is what makes him the GOAT, not his talent. He's the oldest MVP in NFL history, winning it at age 40. Longevity and constantly coming up big in the Playoffs is why he's the GOAT.

[CelticBaller]

Yes and it

[FultzNationRISE]

https://media0.giphy.com/media/26vIfs1eM4fxxCl0I/giphy.gif
https://media.giphy.com/media/xT0xeszAfl0kFPlgKQ/giphy.gif


Just imagine whats going on up there :eek:


Eli

[SouBeachTalents]

Brady was already GOAT after the 28-3 comeback to win his 5th. Everything he's done since then has just added even greater distance between him and 2nd place

[Turbo Slayer]

Nothing against Turbo Slayer. I actually find him comical. But ISH is a breeding ground for posters like him. Before we lynch the kid maybe we need to take accountability for ourselves and the culture we create here.
:lol dahezzy u da man. Question. You still got beef with airtupac? BTW I'm not an alt :facepalm

[ArbitraryWater]

Brady was already GOAT after the 28-3 comeback to win his 5th. Everything he's done since then has just added even greater distance between him and 2nd place

this


but he hasnt added to it since then

if anything trimmed the lead with his SB shitshow

[LAmbruh]

Eli’s apparently pretty booksmart, but he’s definitely always had the look of a “special” type of athlete.

A special “olympian” you might say.
He has that Kawhit like emptiness. Like only half his a soul was uploaded into his conscience at birth

They never wanted to play sports, they don't even know what 'want' is, but Uncle Dennis and Texas HS football.....

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/PerkyDescriptiveBobwhite-size_restricted.gif

[Turbo Slayer]

He has that Kawhit like emptiness. Like only half his a soul was uploaded into his conscience at birth

They never wanted to play sports, but Uncle Dennis and Texas HS football

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/PerkyDescriptiveBobwhite-size_restricted.gif
:lol

[SouBeachTalents]

this


but he hasnt added to it since then

if anything trimmed the lead with his SB shitshow
Imo he has. He was great in the 2017 playoffs, and legit maybe had his best playoff performance ever against Philly, throwing for 500 yards and 3 TD's. Last year he also played very well against LA & KC, and came up clutch as fck on several occasions to win in KC. I do admit he was very mediocre against the Rams, but one bleh performance doesn't overshadow another overall great season, while reaching Bill Russell status for the Super Bowl era

[Turbo Slayer]

Imo he has. He was great in the 2017 playoffs, and legit maybe had his best playoff performance ever against Philly, throwing for 500 yards and 3 TD's. Last year he also played very well against LA & KC, and came up clutch as fck on several occasions to win in KC. I do admit he was very mediocre against the Rams, but one bleh performance doesn't overshadow another overall great season, while Bill Russell status for the Super Bowl era
Yeah. What records did he broke, SouBeachTalent?

[ImKobe]

this


but he hasnt added to it since then

if anything trimmed the lead with his SB shitshow

Yeah. Winning the MVP at age 40 definitely did not add to his legacy. Coming up huge in the AFCCG against KC while outplaying Mahomes didn't add to his legacy. Adding another game-winning drive in his 6th SB win did not add to his legacy.

He's breaking records as he keeps going. We might be looking at an MVP race between Mahomes and a 42 y.o Brady this season with how they've both played the first 3 weeks.

[DaHeezy]

:lol dahezzy u da man. Question. You still got beef with airtupac? BTW I'm not an alt :facepalm

I actually believe you.
As for AirTupac I think he's a moron. He brings it upon himself. He sent an invitation so I'm obliged to keep bullying him.

This site is for people like you. The internet is for people like you. F*CK what others think if you're a alt or they think you're a troll. The world has evolved. People need to take accountability and say we're responsible for the next gen.

[Turbo Slayer]

I actually believe you.
As for AirTupac I think he's a moron. He brings it upon himself. He sent an invitation so I'm obliged to keep bullying him.

This site is for people like you. The internet is for people like you. F*CK what others think if you're a alt or they think you're a troll. The world has evolved. People need to take accountability and say we're responsible for the next gen.
Well said. Can't wait for AirTupac to come over and be 'petty' with you :lol

[Wally450]

[QUOTE=CelticBaller]Yes and it

[1987_Lakers]

this


but he hasnt added to it since then

if anything trimmed the lead with his SB shitshow

:kobe:

He won league MVP in 2017 (at age 40), 2 super bowl appearances and another super bowl win since the 28-3 comeback.

His battle with Mahomes in the AFC Championship game last season will be talked about for decades. Not only was it a great game, but Mahomes is on his way to become one of the best QBs ever, it was a moment where Brady refused to pass the torch.

[DoctorP]

yes. Tom Brady is the NFL Goat.

[AirBonner]

Yes TB12 is GOAT.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Mahomes is already better than any version of Brady and he's gonna improve every season.

Enjoy it while you can Brady fans, because his GOAT status is short lived thanks to Patty Mahomes who will likely go down as the GOAT of all sports. Anyone who actually knows sports can see the writing on the wall.

[AirBonner]

Mahomes is already better than any version of Brady and he's gonna improve every season.

Enjoy it while you can Brady fans, because his GOAT status is short lived thanks to Patty Mahomes who will likely go down as the GOAT of all sports. Anyone who actually knows sports can see the writing on the wall.
Like Rodgers? :roll:

[AlternativeAcc.]

Like Rodgers? :roll:
You and I both know Mahomes is a different animal, and it's almost impossible to be as brittle as A-Rod.

It's like MJ fans bringing up Kobe in response to LeBron being GOAT. Come on man.. that's weak

[AirBonner]

You and I both know Mahomes is a different animal, and it's almost impossible to be as brittle as A-Rod.

It's like MJ fans bringing up Kobe in response to LeBron being GOAT. Come on man.. that's weak
No he doesn

[SouBeachTalents]

Lol at people trying to make definitive statements about Mahomes after 20 god damn starts :oldlol: Brady was literally a backup QB at Mahomes current age, give the dude a couple of seasons to prove himself at least

[AlternativeAcc.]

[QUOTE=AirBonner]No he doesn

[RRR3]

What the hell is this doing in the NBA forum

[AirBonner]

:roll:

What?

The Pats have an all-time great defense. Mahomes is putting up numbers with backups and rookie WR's, and a banged up O-line. No winning instinct? Lmao, he dropped 30 points against said all-time defense in the 4th Q in last years AFC championship game. He put up a better season that Brady has ever had in his 1st year as a starting QB. He's gonna have more MVP's than Brady before age 28.
He might be out of the league by age 28

[SouBeachTalents]

:roll:

What?

The Pats have an all-time great defense. Mahomes is putting up numbers with backups and rookie WR's, and a banged up O-line. No winning instinct? Lmao, he dropped 30 points against said all-time defense in the 4th Q in last years AFC championship game. He put up a better season that Brady has ever had in his 1st year as a starting QB. He's gonna have more MVP's than Brady before age 28.
:roll: Absolutely no idea what you're talking about bro. All-time great defense? The 2000 Ravens are an all-time great defense. The Pats last year didn't even finish top 5 in points allowed or top 20 in yards, and gave up SIXTY points in their first two playoff games, after letting Nick Foles drop 40 on them in the Super Bowl the year before

[AlternativeAcc.]

:roll: Absolutely no idea what you're talking about bro. All-time great defense? The 2000 Ravens are an all-time great defense. The Pats last year didn't even finish top 5 in points allowed or top 20 in yards, and gave up SIXTY points in their first two playoff games, after letting Nick Foles drop 40 on them in the Super Bowl the year before
:facepalm

You're using the Chargers game as an example when it was a blowout and the Chargers had garbage time points, and the Chiefs game... which was speaking to my point that Mahomes was able to drop 30 on them in the 2nd half.

Everyone knows the Pats flipped a switch late last season and now are doing things on defense rarely ever seen. You're a ****ing moron for bringing up 2017 and early 2018. Stop trying to make points with people who know much more than you, it's beyond embarrassing. :facepalm

[AirBonner]

:facepalm

You're using the Chargers game as an example when it was a blowout and the Chargers had garbage time points, and the Chiefs game... which was speaking to my point that Mahomes was able to drop 30 on them in the 2nd half.

Everyone knows the Pats flipped a switch late last season and now are doing things on defense rarely ever seen. You're a ****ing moron for bringing up 2017 and early 2018. Stop trying to make points with people who know much more than you, it's beyond embarrassing. :facepalm
Mahomes is good. Stop comparing him to the GOAT :facepalm

[egokiller]

Jerry Rice is the GOAT.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/video/why-jerry-rice-is-still-the-goat-over-tom-brady/

[AlternativeAcc.]

Mahomes is good. Stop comparing him to the GOAT :facepalm
Brady's GOAT status is inherently flimsy because it's predicated on mostly resume and winning. There were many years where guys like Manning and Rodgers and Brees overshadowed him as individual talents.

Nobody will ever overshadow Mahomes as an individual talent. That's the difference. Mahomes is the GOAT talent and in 20 years, his numbers will take a steaming shit on Brady's. (per season). I guarantee Mahomes wins AT LEAST 4 superbowls, with the potential for 10+. (the defenses and talent around him is out of his control... but the Chiefs are a pretty stable organization so I feel comfortable predicting at least 4).

Again, Brady's superbowls early were won because of defense. Period. His early rings are akin to Kobe's rings. His latest ring is akin to Duncans last ring. Dude dropped 13 points in the superbowl and won. :oldlol:

[AlternativeAcc.]

Jerry Rice is the GOAT.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/video/why-jerry-rice-is-still-the-goat-over-tom-brady/
Funny you bring up Jerry. You could say Brady is similar to Jerry (longevity and winning) and Moss is similar to Mahomes. (cheat code talent)

Only Mahomes doesn't have character issues like Moss, so he'll 100 percent wind up as GOAT

[AirBonner]

Brady's GOAT status is inherently flimsy because it's predicated on mostly resume and winning. There were many years where guys like Manning and Rodgers and Brees overshadowed him as individual talents.

Nobody will ever overshadow Mahomes as an individual talent. That's the difference. Mahomes is the GOAT talent and in 20 years, his numbers will take a steaming shit on Brady's. (per season). I guarantee Mahomes wins AT LEAST 4 superbowls, with the potential for 10+. (the defenses and talent around him is out of his control... but the Chiefs are a pretty stable organization so I feel comfortable predicting at least 4).

Again, Brady's superbowls early were won because of defense. Period. His early rings are akin to Kobe's rings. His latest ring is akin to Duncans last ring. Dude dropped 13 points in the superbowl and won. :oldlol:
Winning while having the best stats. That

[AlternativeAcc.]

Winning while having the best stats. That’s literally everything :oldlol:
Except Mahomes stats are better and will shit on Brady's stats.. and winning is predicated on defense/coaching

Mahomes was a coinflip away from winning a superbowl his 1st season as starter on a bottom 5 defense. (which obviously has never been or never will be done). Mahomes was and is carrying Kansas City, whereas many years Brady was just along for the ride

But keep playing the "winner" angle against a QB in his 2nd year who was a coin flip away from winning last year with an atrocious defense :oldlol:

[AirBonner]

Except Mahomes stats are better and will shit on Brady's stats.. and winning is predicated on defense/coaching

Mahomes was a coinflip away from winning a superbowl his 1st season as starter on a bottom 5 defense. (which obviously has never been or never will be done)

But keep playing the "winner" angle against a QB in his 2nd year who was a coin flip away from winning last year with an atrocious defense :oldlol:
Better? Over what time period? Brady has 20 years in the league stfu

[AlternativeAcc.]

Better? Over what time period? Brady has 20 years in the league stfu
Must be nice always having a top offensive line to keep you healthy

Kudos to the Pats for being the best franchise in sports. No argument there.


But Mahomes will continue having years better than Brady's best for the next 10 years while taking home the MVP probably 8 out of those 10 years, more than doubling Brady's mark in half the time. :lol

And this is literally what will happen

[AirBonner]

Must be nice always having a top offensive line to keep you healthy

Kudos to the Pats for being the best franchise in sports. No argument there.


But Mahomes will continue having years better than Brady's best for the next 10 years while taking home the MVP probably 8 out of those 10 years, more than doubling Brady's mark in half the time. :lol

And this is literally what will happen
This proves you don

[AlternativeAcc.]

[QUOTE=AirBonner]This proves you don

[AirBonner]

It actually proves YOU don't watch football and haven't been paying ANY attention the last 20 years if for one second you pretend the Pats haven't had elite O-Lines almost every season. It's actually such a laughable insinuation that I assume you must be trolling.

You're a Celtics fan who pretends to be a Brady/Patriots fan because they share the same city and it's easy to jump on the bandwagon. You don't know shit about football.
8:15am meltdowns in the Philippines :lol

[SouBeachTalents]

8:15am meltdowns in the Philippines :lol
Bro, you're arguing with someone who thinks the Pats defense was all-time great last year and believes Mahomes will win 10 Super Bowls. Why even waste your time arguing with someone that clueless :lol

[MrFonzworth]

Mahomes is a bitch.

[AirBonner]

Bro, you're arguing with someone who thinks the Pats defense was all-time great last year and believes Mahomes will win 10 Super Bowls. Why even waste your time arguing with someone that clueless :lol
True. Arguments for Brady are facts. Arguments for Mahomes are hypothetical :lol

[AlternativeAcc.]

Bro, you're arguing with someone who thinks the Pats defense was all-time great last year and believes Mahomes will win 10 Super Bowls. Why even waste your time arguing with someone that clueless :lol
Thought your 1st post itt was as cringey as cringe gets, but you just topped yourself.

"ChArGerS SCoRed 28 PoINtS doe!" :roll:


No need to put words in my mouth. Anybody can read what I actually said. Don't just assume everyone's as illiterate as you lol.

fukking scrub.

[1987_Lakers]

Brady's GOAT status is inherently flimsy because it's predicated on mostly resume and winning. There were many years where guys like Manning and Rodgers and Brees overshadowed him as individual talents.

Nobody will ever overshadow Mahomes as an individual talent. That's the difference. Mahomes is the GOAT talent and in 20 years, his numbers will take a steaming shit on Brady's. (per season). I guarantee Mahomes wins AT LEAST 4 superbowls, with the potential for 10+. (the defenses and talent around him is out of his control... but the Chiefs are a pretty stable organization so I feel comfortable predicting at least 4).

Again, Brady's superbowls early were won because of defense. Period. His early rings are akin to Kobe's rings. His latest ring is akin to Duncans last ring. Dude dropped 13 points in the superbowl and won. :oldlol:
:roll:

[AlternativeAcc.]

:roll:
Raiders


:roll: :roll: :roll:

[JohnnySic]

He became the undisputed goat after the 5th super bowl. This not a discussion anymore.

[1987_Lakers]

10+ potential super bowls in the salary cap era. I can't believe you really just said. You have actually made some good points, that wasn't one of them.

[AlternativeAcc.]

10+ potential super bowls in the salary cap era. I can't believe you really just said. You have actually made some good points, that wasn't one of them.
At one time LeBron had *potential* for 8+ rings.

In the event that everything goes right for the chiefs, and Mahomes stays healthy for 20 years like Brady, the potential is there. In no way do I think they'll actually win 10 superbowls. :oldlol:

Got y'all cherry picking

[1987_Lakers]

Shit, Mahomes isn't even the first QB to come into this league and start dominating right away. Dan Marino did it, in his 2nd year he threw for 48 TD passes, shattering the previous record of 36, he even made the super bowl that same year. How do people view his career now? One of the all-time greats but never discussed as the GOAT.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Shit, Mahomes isn't even the first QB to come into this league and start dominating right away. Dan Marino did it, in his 2nd year he threw for 48 TD passes, shattering the previous record of 36, he even made the super bowl that same year. How do people view his career now? One of the all-time greats but never discussed as the GOAT.
His stats fell off a cliff and he only won 1 MVP.

Mahomes is the most talented QB ever already and will have 2 MVP's by age 24.

Mahomes is his own guy. Bringing up other QB's and how their careers went doesn't move the needle

[1987_Lakers]

His stats fell off a cliff and he only won 1 MVP.

Mahomes is the most talented QB ever already and will have 2 MVP's by age 24.

Mahomes is his own guy. Bringing up other QB's and how their careers went doesn't move the needle
My point is that you don't know how a person's career is going to progress so it's better to just chill and see what happens.

No doubt Mahomes is one of the most talented QB's ever, but who's to say his stats won't decrease a bit as his career progresses? You have to keep in mind that he became a starter when the Chiefs were loaded with playmakers on offense and he has one of the best offensive minds in the league in Andy Reid as his coach. A few years down the road, there will be seasons where he doesn't have that type of talent around him, or Andy Reid might not be around. How will he respond? We have yet to see that.

[JohnnySic]

Marino in today's league would throw 60 touchdowns a season.

[AlternativeAcc.]

My point is that you don't know how a person's career is going to progress so it's better to just chill and see what happens.

No doubt Mahomes is one of the most talented QB's ever, but who's to say his stats won't decrease a bit as his career progresses? You have to keep in mind that he became a starter when the Chiefs were loaded with playmakers on offense and he has one of the best offensive minds in the league in Andy Reid as his coach. A few years down the road, there will be seasons where he doesn't have that type of talent around him, or Andy Reid might not be around. How will he respond? We have yet to see that.
I understand the point clearly, but my counter is that Mahomes is one of a kind and shows no signs of EVER slowing up. He's that insane. If you watch him week in and week out like I have you start to realize he's not like any other guy to ever play the game. He makes throws nobody else can make. He doesn't just manipulate defenders with his eyes, but his entire body, and makes off-balance no look passes like it's a free throw.

He lost his number 1 receiver, number 1 RB, and number 1 offensive linemen to start this season. What's happening? He's tuning up elite defenses to the tune of 10 TD's, no picks, and on pace for 6000 yards.

There's literally zero indication of him slowing up to any significant degree. This is who he is.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Marino in today's league would throw 60 touchdowns a season.
Then he's better than Brady.

[JohnnySic]

Then he's better than Brady.
Better arm, yes. Better overall, no.

[1987_Lakers]

I understand the point clearly, but my counter is that Mahomes is one of a kind and shows no signs of EVER slowing up. He's that insane. If you watch him week in and week out like I have you start to realize he's not like any other guy to ever play the game. He makes throws nobody else can make. He doesn't just manipulate defenders with his eyes, but his entire body, and makes off-balance no look passes like it's a free throw.

He lost his number 1 receiver, number 1 RB, and number 1 offensive linemen to start this season. What's happening? He's tuning up elite defenses to the tune of 10 TD's, no picks, and on pace for 6000 yards.

There's literally zero indication of him slowing up to any significant degree. This is who he is.

For me it's too much of a small sample size of seeing Mahomes dominating without his #1 WR, I still have to see how the season progresses, he may very well be that guy, we will see. Marino lost his pro bowl WR for half the season in 1985 (the year after he broke the TD record) and he still led the league in passing TDs and passing yards in '85.

We also have to see how defenses adjust to the type of offense KC is currently playing. The Chiefs are not going to be averaging 33-35 ppg (Like they currently are) during Mahome's entire career there, that just doesn't happen.

[AlternativeAcc.]

For me it's too much of a small sample size of seeing Mahomes dominating without his #1 WR, I still have to see how the season progresses, he may very well be that guy, we will see. Marino lost his pro bowl WR for half the season in 1985 (the year after he broke the TD record) and he still led the league in passing TDs and passing yards in '85.

We also have to see how defenses adjust to the type of offense KC is currently playing. The Chiefs are not going to be averaging 33-35 ppg (Like they currently are) during Mahome's entire career there, that just doesn't happen.
The thing is, he doesn't need to keep playing at this level to be the best. Say he regresses a bit. You're still looking at 45TD's and 5000+ yards. Double digit wins. His regression is still MVP of the league and best QB


Marino is an all-time great no doubt, one of the best arms ever. But Mahomes has an even better arm than Marino, is more accurate, and much more mobile with elite accuracy on the run.


Talent wise, Mahomes > Marino



I highly doubt Mahomes finishes his career with 1 MVP like Marino. More like 6-10

And again, there's really no signs whatsover that Mahomes will slow to a significant degree. If anything, the more experience he gets the better he's playing, which is terrifying for the league.

[Wally450]

The thing is, he doesn't need to keep playing at this level to be the best. Say he regresses a bit. You're still looking at 45TD's and 5000+ yards. Double digit wins. His regression is still MVP of the league and best QB


Marino is an all-time great no doubt, one of the best arms ever. But Mahomes has an even better arm than Marino, is more accurate, and much more mobile with elite accuracy on the run.


Talent wise, Mahomes > Marino



I highly doubt Mahomes finishes his career with 1 MVP like Marino. More like 6-10

And again, there's really no signs whatsover that Mahomes will slow to a significant degree. If anything, the more experience he gets the better he's playing, which is terrifying for the league.

Nah. The voter fatigue will kick in quickly no matter how well he plays. If he keeps this pace though, he'll have 3 by the time he's 26 which is stupid good.

[ImKobe]

Mahomes is already better than any version of Brady and he's gonna improve every season.

Enjoy it while you can Brady fans, because his GOAT status is short lived thanks to Patty Mahomes who will likely go down as the GOAT of all sports. Anyone who actually knows sports can see the writing on the wall.

Chill bro. He might be the new stats GOAT in the NFL in the weakest defensive era, but we've seen guys come and shatter records before (Marino, Peyton, Brees, Rodgers) but not come close to GOAT status because of their lack of success in the Playoffs.

Mahomes is playing for Andy Reid, who basically is the Mike D'Antoni of Football. Great offensive mind but his defenses almost always struggle. I see Mahomes as the James Harden of NFL right now in terms of breaking scoring records and putting up big numbers consistently. We gotta see if he can get to the SB before we crown him. He was 16/31 for 295 yards in the AFCCG, where he got shut out in the first half, that's not very GOAT-like.

He's barely played 20 NFL games for his career, I hate how fans always are quick to crown someone barely a season into their career and then tearing them down when they fall short of their ridiculously high expectations.

[Wally450]

Chill bro. He might be the new stats GOAT in the NFL in the weakest defensive era, but we've seen guys come and shatter records before (Marino, Peyton, Brees, Rodgers) but not come close to GOAT status because of their lack of success in the Playoffs.

Mahomes is playing for Andy Reid, who basically is the Mike D'Antoni of Football. Great offensive mind but his defenses almost always struggle. I see Mahomes as the James Harden of NFL right now in terms of breaking scoring records and putting up big numbers consistently. We gotta see if he can get to the SB before we crown him. He was 16/31 for 295 yards in the AFCCG, where he got shut out in the first half, that's not very GOAT-like.

He's barely played 20 NFL games for his career, I hate how fans always are quick to crown someone barely a season into their career and then tearing them down when they fall short of their ridiculously high expectations.

This. You know what other QBs had great regular seasons but usually fizzled out in the playoffs? Manning and Rodgers. Both of those guys aren't anywhere near Brady's level either.

Mahomes has a looong way to go to catch Brady. His defense won't do him any favors right now either.

[AlternativeAcc.]

This. You know what other QBs had great regular seasons but usually fizzled out in the playoffs? Manning and Rodgers. Both of those guys aren't anywhere near Brady's level either.

Mahomes has a looong way to go to catch Brady. His defense won't do him any favors right now either.
This is simply false. Manning and Rodgers in their primes were better than Brady was individually. To say they aren't close is laughable. You're basing it off superbowls won by a franchise who has surrounded Brady with the best situations year in and year out.


You bringing up defense is a perfect example. What does that have to do with Mahomes?


Eli manning has more superbowls than Rodgers and Brees. Is Eli better than Rodgers and Brees because he played for spectacular defenses and teams for a few seasons?

Is Big Ben better than Marino?


The answers are obviously no. I'm not saying winning doesn't matter, and I'm not saying Brady isn't the GOAT right now, but individually he was overshadowed by multiple guys throughout his career. I don't ever see Mahomes being overshadowed talent/impact wise like Brady was/is.


People said last year "slow the brakes on Mahomes no way he can keep it up!"

Coming in to this season they said "big regression coming, defenses will figure him out!"


It's starting to sound repetitive and people saying these things aren't actually in the know and watching him play week in and week out. They don't understand the talent level and mental abilities this cat has shown. There's more than enough sample size to see he's the real deal and is still getting better.

We'll leave it that and keep bumping this thread in the future and see where the dust settles.

[Carbine]

Brady's GOAT status is inherently flimsy because it's predicated on mostly resume and winning. There were many years where guys like Manning and Rodgers and Brees overshadowed him as individual talents.

Nobody will ever overshadow Mahomes as an individual talent. That's the difference. Mahomes is the GOAT talent and in 20 years, his numbers will take a steaming shit on Brady's. (per season). I guarantee Mahomes wins AT LEAST 4 superbowls, with the potential for 10+. (the defenses and talent around him is out of his control... but the Chiefs are a pretty stable organization so I feel comfortable predicting at least 4).

Again, Brady's superbowls early were won because of defense. Period. His early rings are akin to Kobe's rings. His latest ring is akin to Duncans last ring. Dude dropped 13 points in the superbowl and won. :oldlol:

I lived through all this era and this has never been the case beside the first couple years of Brady.

[Wally450]

This is simply false. Manning and Rodgers in their primes were better than Brady was individually. To say they aren't close is laughable. You're basing it off superbowls won by a franchise who has surrounded Brady with the best situations year in and year out.


You bringing up defense is a perfect example. What does that have to do with Mahomes?


Eli manning has more superbowls than Rodgers and Brees. Is Eli better than Rodgers and Brees because he played for spectacular defenses and teams for a few seasons?

Is Big Ben better than Marino?


The answers are obviously no. I'm not saying winning doesn't matter, and I'm not saying Brady isn't the GOAT right now, but individually he was overshadowed by multiple guys throughout his career. I don't ever see Mahomes being overshadowed talent/impact wise like Brady was/is.


People said last year "slow the brakes on Mahomes no way he can keep it up!"

Coming in to this season they said "big regression coming, defenses will figure him out!"


It's starting to sound repetitive and people saying these things aren't actually in the know and watching him play week in and week out. They don't understand the talent level and mental abilities this cat has shown. There's more than enough sample size to see he's the real deal and is still getting better.

We'll leave it that and keep bumping this thread in the future and see where the dust settles.

Because it goes a long way in supporting whether a guy gets his accomplishments or not. I've advocated for a long time that Brady's first 3 super bowls have come because of the defense. Hell, even the last 3 have come in part because of the way the defenses have played. Not to say Brady himself hasn't created some magic to win those games...

You simply don't win championships without good defenses, which is why this directly ties in to Mahomes success in terms of super bowls. No one will care how many MVPs he wins if he never wins a super bowl. He'll be another Dan Marino. Despite how insane this offense is, they'll never really get anywhere with how bad their defense is.

Hell, just look at last years AFC championship game. The Chiefs had the ball for 15 minutes and put up 31 points. They would've won that game if the defense could've gotten off the field, but they couldn't.

After reading your post again, I agree he's a great individual talent, and through 20 starts he seems to be on a roll to have a great career. But I'm looking at full body of work rather than individual talent. That's where Brady separates himself from the rest.

[ImKobe]

This is simply false. Manning and Rodgers in their primes were better than Brady was individually. To say they aren't close is laughable. You're basing it off superbowls won by a franchise who has surrounded Brady with the best situations year in and year out.


You bringing up defense is a perfect example. What does that have to do with Mahomes?


Eli manning has more superbowls than Rodgers and Brees. Is Eli better than Rodgers and Brees because he played for spectacular defenses and teams for a few seasons?

Is Big Ben better than Marino?


The answers are obviously no. I'm not saying winning doesn't matter, and I'm not saying Brady isn't the GOAT right now, but individually he was overshadowed by multiple guys throughout his career. I don't ever see Mahomes being overshadowed talent/impact wise like Brady was/is.


You can't actually say that for a fact though. Brady's 2007 season was the best individual year by any QB until Manning in 2013, which was 5 more TDs but 2 more INTs and lower QBR & completion percentage.

[eliteballer]

Belechik, the Patriots defense and their ability to succesfully keep the roster competitive is as responsible for their success as Brady, this isn't tennis or basketball.

Not to mention spygate and deflategate..

[Kiddlovesnets]

He is not, he lost twice in Super Bowl and never won against Eli Manning. The GOAT should have a perfect 100% SB winning percentage, similar to Mj in NBA finals.

[SouBeachTalents]

Belechik, the Patriots defense and their ability to succesfully keep the roster competitive is as responsible for their success as Brady, this isn't tennis or basketball.

Not to mention spygate and deflategate..
Brady's still the biggest reason for the Pats success. You can point to the defense being the reason why the Pats won their first 3 Super Bowls back in the beginning of Brady's career. But their last 3? Credit definitely goes to Brady and the offense. Look at the points they've been dropping in their playoff games during the last 3 titles: 35, 45, 28, 34, 36, 34, 41, 37, 13; averaging 34 ppg. And they've had to overcome the defense allowing the opposing team to score 31, 24, 28, 28 and 31 points during some of their playoff wins. There's no denying the defense bailed Brady out of a very mediocre performance in last years Super Bowl, but the rest of the time? It's been Brady and the offense doing most of the heavy lifting, and for as great as the defense was against the Rams, it was equally bad against Philly, wasting a 500 yard/3 TD effort from Brady

He is not, he lost twice in Super Bowl and never won against Eli Manning. The GOAT should have a perfect 100% SB winning percentage, similar to Mj in NBA finals.
Is there even a point to typing this out. Absolutely nobody could be stupid enough to legitimately believe this. It's just bad trolling, you can do a lot better

[ImKobe]

He is not, he lost twice in Super Bowl and never won against Eli Manning. The GOAT should have a perfect 100% SB winning percentage, similar to Mj in NBA finals.

So MJ never lost a game in the finals?


Belechik, the Patriots defense and their ability to succesfully keep the roster competitive is as responsible for their success as Brady, this isn't tennis or basketball.

Not to mention spygate and deflategate..

QB is the most valuable position in Football. Tell me, how many SBs has Belichick won as a HC without Brady? Weren't they struggling before Tom Brady took over?

"deflategate" is the biggest joke in sports. Not only did the deflated balls have no influence on the outcome of the game, but nothing was proven in terms of Brady having anything to do with the balls being underinflated.

[RRR3]

This isn’t NBA related wtf

[Turbo Slayer]

He is not, he lost twice in Super Bowl and never won against Eli Manning. The GOAT should have a perfect 100% SB winning percentage, similar to Mj in NBA finals.

:lol bruh

[JBSptfn]

QB is the most valuable position in Football. Tell me, how many SBs has Belichick won as a HC without Brady? Weren't they struggling before Tom Brady took over?

"deflategate" is the biggest joke in sports. Not only did the deflated balls have no influence on the outcome of the game, but nothing was proven in terms of Brady having anything to do with the balls being underinflated.

Super Bowls are won and lost as a team. QB isn't quite as valuable as you may think. The media puts them on too big of a pedestal, and you see idiot GM's reaching for guys (see Trubisky, Mitchell) because they need one.

And, while Deflategate isn't all that clear, Brady did benefit from a little thing known as Spygate, where he was getting info piped into his helmet after the league mandated 15-second cutoff.

[1987_Lakers]

Super Bowls are won and lost as a team. QB isn't quite as valuable as you may think. The media puts them on too big of a pedestal, and you see idiot GM's reaching for guys (see Trubisky, Mitchell) because they need one.

And, while Deflategate isn't all that clear, Brady did benefit from a little thing known as Spygate, where he was getting info piped into his helmet after the league mandated 15-second cutoff.

Except it is, you are not winning a super bowl if you have a mediocre QB unless you have an all-time great defense. '00 Ravens, '02 Bucs, & '15 Broncos are good examples.

I have never seen a team stay good for consistent years if they have a shitty QB. What do all the dynasties have in common? 70's Steelers, 80's 49ers, 90's Cowboys, & 00-10's Patriots all had HOF QBs. You must have a franchise QB if you want to have consistent success.

[JBSptfn]

Except it is, you are not winning a super bowl if you have a mediocre QB unless you have an all-time great defense. '00 Ravens, '02 Bucs, & '15 Broncos are good examples.

I have never seen a team stay good for consistent years if they have a shitty QB. What do all the dynasties have in common? 70's Steelers, 80's 49ers, 90's Cowboys, & 00-10's Patriots all had HOF QBs. You must have a franchise QB if you want to have consistent success.

Those QB's are in the HOF (or going to the Hall in Tom's case) because of the team success. If Bradshaw, Montana, Brady, and Aikman didn't play for who they did, they wouldn't be in the Hall. Same thing with Otto Graham.

That's why guys like Elway and Rodgers are better, and are in my top-4. Elway dragged three teams to the SB that didn't have any business being there, and the Pack have a losing record without Rodgers (the Pats sure don't have one without Brady since 01).

[Real Men Wear Green]

Those QB's are in the HOF (or going to the Hall in Tom's case) because of the team success. If Bradshaw, Montana, Brady, and Aikman didn't play for who they did, they wouldn't be in the Hall. Same thing with Otto Graham.
I don't know how many MVP awards and 50 TD seasons Brady needs for you to deem his career as being worthy of respect but fortunately the answer to that question doesn't matter.

[JBSptfn]

I don't know how many MVP awards and 50 TD seasons Brady needs for you to deem his career as being worthy of respect but fortunately the answer to that question doesn't matter.

Brees and others have also had years like that. Playing QB today is much easier. Joe Namath's first 4,000 yard season is more impressive than the records QB's set today in this flag football era.

[1987_Lakers]

Those QB's are in the HOF (or going to the Hall in Tom's case) because of the team success. If Bradshaw, Montana, Brady, and Aikman didn't play for who they did, they wouldn't be in the Hall. Same thing with Otto Graham.

Aikman was a #1 overall pick and was putting up pro-bowl numbers when Dallas went 6-10, Montana was a pro-bowler with KC and led them to the AFC Championship game when he left SF. Bradshaw led the entire league in TD passes in '82 when the Steelers dynasty was over. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Brees and others have also had years like that. Playing QB today is much easier. Joe Namath's first 4,000 yard season is more impressive than the records QB's set today in this flag football era.
Tom Brady will most likely be the career leader in touchdowns and yards along with having as many MVPs as anyone and a ridiculously long list of individual records. If his resume can't convince you there's really nothing I can say to change your mind. I don't believe your opinion to be even slightly rational but what's it matter when I get to watch this team go to the Super Bowl every other year? Never been a dynasty like this in the NFL before. Good enough for me.

[Vragrant]

In his era alone you can argue manning Mahomes Rodgers brees are more talented

Greatness and talent are two different things I think. I think greatness is talent plus intangibles eg:heart/clutchness/intelligence/consistency/humility etc.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Greatness and talent are two different things I think. I think greatness is talent plus intangibles eg:heart/clutchness/intelligence/consistency/humility etc.
Mahomes has these 'intagibles' in leaps and bounds

Far more than Rodgers/Manning had overall

Mahomes is special, he's the chosen one.

[dude77]

mahomes hasn't done shit yet .. let's calm down with the hype .. the guy's in his second year(starting) .. goat isn't about just talent .. brady is the goat right now and it's not even close .. the guy's a slow 42 yr old and still hanging with 20something elite athletes

[egokiller]

Tom Brady really isn’t even as GOAT as Jim Kelly who won 4 super bowls in a row TBH....

And Jim Kelly isn’t even considered to be GOAT. That pretty much tells you where Tom Brady stands and the millennials that try to make him appear as if he’s something he’s not. Much like Le349

The insecurity by those who never saw a GOAT play in their respective sports needs to stop. Go talk to your daddy or grandpa if you feel so shook about it. Live vicariously through their experiences.

[1987_Lakers]

[QUOTE=egokiller]Tom Brady really isn

[CelticBaller]

[QUOTE=egokiller]Tom Brady really isn

[Real Men Wear Green]

[quote=egokiller]Tom Brady really isn

[egokiller]

Jim Kelly lost 4 super bowls in a row.

Not by lebronstan logic. Showing up = winning, remember? Why can this only apply to lebron and not Jim Kelly?

[1987_Lakers]

Not by lebronstan logic. Showing up = winning, remember? Why can this only apply to lebron and not Jim Kelly?

You got caught about not knowing shit about football.

[Lakers Legend#32]

Jim Brown

[CelticBaller]

Not by lebronstan logic. Showing up = winning, remember? Why can this only apply to lebron and not Jim Kelly?
Lmao backpedaling like a mfer :roll:

[ShawkFactory]

[QUOTE=egokiller]Tom Brady really isn

[egokiller]

You got caught about not knowing shit about football.

Nope, it

[stalkerforlife]

Not by lebronstan logic. Showing up = winning, remember? Why can this only apply to lebron and not Jim Kelly?

Damn.

Incredible display of reverse psychology.

Obliterated their insanity.

[dude77]

lebron and kelly aren't even comparable because lebron has won championships .. although getting to 4 straight sb is pretty fkn crazy regardless

[Turbo Slayer]

Not by lebronstan logic. Showing up = winning, remember? Why can this only apply to lebron and not Jim Kelly?

:lol

[Turbo Slayer]

Except Mahomes stats are better and will shit on Brady's stats.. and winning is predicated on defense/coaching

Mahomes was a coinflip away from winning a superbowl his 1st season as starter on a bottom 5 defense. (which obviously has never been or never will be done). Mahomes was and is carrying Kansas City, whereas many years Brady was just along for the ride

But keep playing the "winner" angle against a QB in his 2nd year who was a coin flip away from winning last year with an atrocious defense :oldlol:
:facepalm

[JBSptfn]

Aikman was a #1 overall pick and was putting up pro-bowl numbers when Dallas went 6-10, Montana was a pro-bowler with KC and led them to the AFC Championship game when he left SF. Bradshaw led the entire league in TD passes in '82 when the Steelers dynasty was over. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

1. Aikman's stats his first three years were not that impressive:

GM ATT CMP PCT YRDS TD INT LNG RTG
1989 DAL 11 293 155 52.9 1,749 9 18 75 55.7
1990 DAL 15 399 226 56.6 2,579 11 18 61 66.6
1991 DAL 12 363 237 65.3 2,754 11 10 61 86.7

2. Montana did make the Pro Bowl in 93, but his stats weren't that impressive:

1993 KC 11 298 181 60.7 2,144 13 7 50T 87.4

You are right about Bradshaw (leading the league in TD's), but he still had a strong supporting cast with Swann, Stallworth, Franco, Cunningham, and Jimmy Smith.