Kobestans, are you willing to accept Kobe at #12 for an all time ranking if...

[Kiddlovesnets]

If Lebron is ranked #13 or lower? Just curious, a simple case study.
:rockon:

[ImKobe]

I see you're coming around. I'm willing to accept Lebron as a top 15 all-time player if you finally admit that Kobe's top 3 all-time.

[Kiddlovesnets]

I see you're coming around. I'm willing to accept Lebron as a top 15 all-time player if you finally admit that Kobe's top 3 all-time.
Kobe is consensus #12 all time regardless of where Lebron ranks.

[ImKobe]

Kobe is consensus #12 all time regardless of where Lebron ranks.

Kobe's won 5 rings with 4 as the #1 option, ran the offense in all 5 of them. You can't name me 5 players ahead of him.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Kobe's won 5 rings with 4 as the #1 option, ran the offense in all 5 of them. You can't name me 5 players ahead of him.

The first three rings were Shaq

[ImKobe]

[QUOTE=Kiddlovesnets]The first three rings were Shaq

[Kiddlovesnets]

"one man show"

Game 7 against the Blazers

Kobe - 25/11/7 4 blocks
Shaq - 18/9/5 1 block

Biggest game of the 2000 Championship run, Lakers fall down double-digits in the 4th quarter and guess where MDE was? Nowhere to be found. Kobe had to save the Lakers. Led the team in points, rebounds, assists and blocks in a do-or-die situation.

Kobe in the 2000 Playoffs had a game-winner, a game-winning block, a tip-in to seal a Finals game on the road with Shaq fouled out and free throws to secure their title in Game 6 of the Finals.

Yeah you can only take one game example from an entire series, a typical symptom of Kobestans flawed logic. How about Kobe playing better in the other games? The lakers would have wrapped the series up earlier.

[ImKobe]

Yeah you can only take one game example from an entire series, a typical symptom of Kobestans flawed logic. How about Kobe playing better in the other games? The lakers would have wrapped the series up earlier.

I named you more than 1 game :facepalm . Lakers lose in 6 if Kobe doesn't have that game-winning block.

And talk about wrapping it up earlier

Game 6

Kobe: 33/6/4/3/3 50%FG
Shaq: 17/11/5 41.2%FG

[RRR3]

Behave yourself, ImRapebe. Don’t make me get Kblaze.

[ImKobe]

[QUOTE=RRR3]Behave yourself, ImRapebe. Don

[RealSkipBayless]

ImKobe embarrassing this kid in his own thread. :oldlol:

[Akeem34TheDream]

You have to be next level stupid to think Kobe was better than Shaq. Like come on that should be a joke.

[SouBeachTalents]

I named you more than 1 game :facepalm . Lakers lose in 6 if Kobe doesn't have that game-winning block.

And talk about wrapping it up earlier

Game 6

Kobe: 33/6/4/3/3 50%FG
Shaq: 17/11/5 41.2%FG
Game 5

Shaq: 31/21/3 on 60%
Kobe: 17/5/4 on 31%

[ImKobe]

You have to be next level stupid to think Kobe was better than Shaq. Like come on that should be a joke.

5/7 vs 4/6

Kobe and Shaq without eachother:

3 straight Finals 2 FMVP vs. 1 roleplayer ring and 1 sweep loss

Kobe was voted by far the best player in 00-10 decade in the TNT poll.


Game 5

Shaq: 31/21/3 on 60%
Kobe: 17/5/4 on 31%

Ok and? Shaq didn't show up in the last 2 games. His argument was that the Lakers were a "one man show", how does a "one man show" rely on another player to close out the series and hit all the big shots? Shaq was a career loser who was swept time and time again before Kobe came of age and started dominating. What did Shaq do without Kobe or Wade?

[LAmbruh]

They don't have a choice


It's a universal consensus


There are 11 players historically that are better at basketball than Kobe, remove Shaq/Lebron, there are still 10 players better than Kobe.

[3ball]

.
This guy is better than Kobe.. :yaohappy:...


https://i.makeagif.com/media/5-05-2019/545xXv.gif


4 places better ..

G T F O with this 3-point contest bullshit as if it compares to what kobe did

And if Kobe played with today's drive-and-kick offensive sets that get open three-pointers as a standard (he can wait at the 3-pt line for kickouts instead of taking contested, pull-up threes), he would be a top 3-point shooter in today's game

indeed, today's offensive sets and spacing result in 89% of 3-pointers being open (4-6 feet from closest defender) or wide open (6+ feet)... So Kobe would be an amazing 3-point shooter in today's game

[RRR3]

You have to be next level stupid to think Kobe was better than Shaq. Like come on that should be a joke.
ImKobe is next level stupid.

[AirBonner]

LeBron is cemented top 3 that

[Kiddlovesnets]

ImKobe embarrassing this kid in his own thread. :oldlol:
lol you are embarrassing yourself kid, he

[bigkingsfan]

Game 5

Shaq: 31/21/3 on 60%
Kobe: 17/5/4 on 31%
:banana: Chance to close it out at home and 14be lays an egg.

[Kiddlovesnets]

They don't have a choice


It's a universal consensus


There are 11 players historically that are better at basketball than Kobe, remove Shaq/Lebron, there are still 10 players better than Kobe.

The cold hard truth is that Kobe was never top 10 ever, with or without Lebron surpassing him. Before he was #11 below Hakeem and Big O, now he just dropped to #12 after Lebron passed him. But seriously, does it matter if he

[Uncle Drew]

I'm willing to go as far as accepting Kobe as the consensus #12 of all time, although I think he should be lower.

[AussieSteve]

Put any of the following SGs on that 00-04 lakers team, they likely win at least 3 or 4 rings (barring injury) next to Shaq...

Jordan (prob wins 5)
Wade
West
Harden
Drexler
Iverson
TMac

There are plenty more who would have won at least 2 of them. But the above win at least 3.

In 08-10... I'm not as certain, but I still think that any of the above are getting ring/rings next to Pau & co. In any event, Kobe gets the #2 all-time SG nod because of his rings with Pau, because they are likely but not certain with the next best SG (Wade/West)

There are a few PGs and SFs who I also think get most or all of Kobes rings in his place. He's just a hard guy to rank because of his favourable circumstances.

[SouBeachTalents]

Put any of the following SGs on that 00-04 lakers team, they likely win at least 3 or 4 rings (barring injury) next to Shaq...

Jordan (prob wins 5)
Wade
West
Harden
Drexler
Iverson

There are plenty more who would have won at least 2 of them. But the above win at least 3.

In 08-10... I'm not as certain, but I still think that any of the above are getting ring/rings next to Pau & co. In any event, Kobe gets the #2 all-time SG nod because of his rings with Pau, because they are likely but not certain with the next best SG (Wade/West)

There are a few PGs and SFs who I also think get most or all of Kobes rings in his place. He's just a hard guy to rank because of his favourable circumstances.
You could add Curry, Durant, Kawhi, McGrady etc. to that list

What I've always wondered about Shaq is how he would've done with a top tier point guard like Isiah, CP3, Nash, Kidd, Payton, Stockton etc. Shaq and Pippen would've been a really interesting duo too

[RRR3]

Put any of the following SGs on that 00-04 lakers team, they likely win at least 3 or 4 rings (barring injury) next to Shaq...

Jordan (prob wins 5)
Wade
West
Harden
Drexler
Iverson

There are plenty more who would have won at least 2 of them. But the above win at least 3.

In 08-10... I'm not as certain, but I still think that any of the above are getting ring/rings next to Pau & co. In any event, Kobe gets the #2 all-time SG nod because of his rings with Pau, because they are likely but not certain with the next best SG (Wade/West)

There are a few PGs and SFs who I also think get most or all of Kobes rings in his place. He's just a hard guy to rank because of his favourable circumstances.
Forgot T-Mac. Much more likely to win with Shaq than Iverson from 00-04.

[AussieSteve]

Forgot T-Mac. Much more likely to win with Shaq than Iverson from 00-04.

You're right. I added him.

[Doranku]

Yeah you can only take one game example from an entire series, a typical symptom of Kobestans flawed logic. How about Kobe playing better in the other games? The lakers would have wrapped the series up earlier.

Would love to see you Kobe detractors apply this logic to 2010. :oldlol:

[Doranku]

Put any of the following SGs on that 00-04 lakers team, they likely win at least 3 or 4 rings (barring injury) next to Shaq...

Jordan (prob wins 5)
Wade
West
Harden
Drexler
Iverson
TMac

There are plenty more who would have won at least 2 of them. But the above win at least 3.

In 08-10... I'm not as certain, but I still think that any of the above are getting ring/rings next to Pau & co. In any event, Kobe gets the #2 all-time SG nod because of his rings with Pau, because they are likely but not certain with the next best SG (Wade/West)

There are a few PGs and SFs who I also think get most or all of Kobes rings in his place. He's just a hard guy to rank because of his favourable circumstances.

:oldlol:

[AussieSteve]

:oldlol:

Whats funny?

Replace Kobe wirh any HOF SF/SG who had at least a decade of all star level play and they get most of Kobe's rings.

Replace him with one who had a decade of All-NBA level play and they probably get them all (or at least the same number of rings in total)

Outside of Kobe, I count 16 perimeter players who had at least a ten 20+ppg seasons. Of these, a dozen had the same or better efficiency as Kobe. There are also a bunch of current players who will join this list at some point (Steph, Kawhi, Harden, Kyrie etc.). That's 15-20 players who, in my opinion, win between 2 and 5 rings next to Shaq between 00 and 04.

Kobe is somewhere between +1 and -2 rings vs replacement HOF perimeter player over those 5 years.

[34-24 Footwork]

:oldlol:

Shaq loses alongside Eddie Jones, Van Exel, Nick Anderson, and Penny Hardaway. Kobe becomes a starter and Lakers instantly become a dynasty.


"Shaq could've won alongside any premier guard and Kobe was replaceable."

Kobe LITERALLY replaces the MOST DOMINANT PLAYER EVER with Pau Gasol and proceeds to win two more rings

"Shaq = Pau Gasol, though."

https://www.gifbay.com/gif/dumb_dumber-30353/

[34-24 Footwork]

Whats funny?

Replace Kobe wirh any HOF SF/SG who had at least a decade of all star level play and they get most of Kobe's rings.

Replace him with one who had a decade of All-NBA level play and they probably get them all (or at least the same number of rings in total)

Outside of Kobe, I count 16 perimeter players who had at least a ten 20+ppg seasons. Of these, a dozen had the same or better efficiency as Kobe. There are also a bunch of current players who will join this list at some point (Steph, Kawhi, Harden, Kyrie etc.). That's 15-20 players who, in my opinion, win between 2 and 5 rings next to Shaq between 00 and 04.

Kobe is somewhere between +1 and -2 rings vs replacement HOF perimeter player over those 5 years.


Lol. Fortunately, The game isn't 1's and 0's, which I'm sure you'd love.

You can't just substitute similar averages and expect the same outcome.

Can't believe I'm having to explain this.

[Doranku]

Whats funny?

Replace Kobe wirh any HOF SF/SG who had at least a decade of all star level play and they get most of Kobe's rings.

Replace him with one who had a decade of All-NBA level play and they probably get them all (or at least the same number of rings in total)

Outside of Kobe, I count 16 perimeter players who had at least a ten 20+ppg seasons. Of these, a dozen had the same or better efficiency as Kobe. There are also a bunch of current players who will join this list at some point (Steph, Kawhi, Harden, Kyrie etc.). That's 15-20 players who, in my opinion, win between 2 and 5 rings next to Shaq between 00 and 04.

Kobe is somewhere between +1 and -2 rings vs replacement HOF perimeter player over those 5 years.

Kobe and Shaq are literally the only duo in NBA history who 3peated besides Jordan and Pippen since Russell's Celtics. The fact that you think you can just plug in career losers like Harden, Iverson, TMac and possibly end up with FIVE (???) rings in five years with Shaq doesn't really deserve more than a laughing emoji.

It's an utter joke. Mentioning guys like Steph, Harden, Kyrie, Iverson, West, etc as if they could even hold a candle to early '00s Kobe defensively. Those guys literally don't play any defense. :oldlol: Imagine Steph or Harden trying to score efficiently in the early '00s when you could actually play defense. Steph wears down from the physicality of TODAY'S playoffs. He'd be in a bodybag by the 2nd round.

The mythologizing of Shaq needs to stop. He was great against the West, but he wasn't putting up the gaudy numbers that he put up against Rik Smits and Todd MacCulloch every series. He isn't dragging just any guard that can score 20 points a game to 3+ titles.

Kobe ran those offenses. He was essentially the only playmaker on the team as a shooting guard. Phil Jackson said it himself in the book where he trashed Kobe :oldlol: He asked Kobe to do more than Jordan in terms of running the offense and playmaking.

But yeah, just throw Harden or Drexler in there. I'm sure they would've cruised to 5 straight titles.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Kobe and Shaq are literally the only duo in NBA history who 3peated besides Jordan and Pippen since Russell's Celtics. The fact that you think you can just plug in career losers like Harden, Iverson, TMac and possibly end up with FIVE (???) rings in five years with Shaq doesn't really deserve more than a laughing emoji.

It's an utter joke. Mentioning guys like Steph, Harden, Kyrie, Iverson, West, etc as if they could even hold a candle to early '00s Kobe defensively. Those guys literally don't play any defense. :oldlol: Imagine Steph or Harden trying to score efficiently in the early '00s when you could actually play defense. Steph wears down from the physicality of TODAY'S playoffs. He'd be in a bodybag by the 2nd round.

The mythologizing of Shaq needs to stop. He was great against the West, but he wasn't putting up the gaudy numbers that he put up against Rik Smits and Todd MacCulloch every series. He isn't dragging just any guard that can score 20 points a game to 3+ titles.

Kobe ran those offenses. He was essentially the only playmaker on the team as a shooting guard. Phil Jackson said it himself in the book where he trashed Kobe :oldlol: He asked Kobe to do more than Jordan in terms of running the offense and playmaking.

But yeah, just throw Harden or Drexler in there. I'm sure they would've cruised to 5 straight titles.

Kobe constantly gets disrespected.

Peep the knuckleheads podcast (Q-rich and Darius Miles). They've had on guys like Durant, Kyrie, Artest, Wade etc., and ALL of them agree that Kobe gets underrated. And yes, disrespected.

Bean averaged second 3-peat MJ numbers during his prime. Played good defense along the way too. People need to quit hating. Dude is retired now :oldlol:

[ImKobe]

Kobe and Shaq are literally the only duo in NBA history who 3peated besides Jordan and Pippen since Russell's Celtics. The fact that you think you can just plug in career losers like Harden, Iverson, TMac and possibly end up with FIVE (???) rings in five years with Shaq doesn't really deserve more than a laughing emoji.

It's an utter joke. Mentioning guys like Steph, Harden, Kyrie, Iverson, West, etc as if they could even hold a candle to early '00s Kobe defensively. Those guys literally don't play any defense. :oldlol: Imagine Steph or Harden trying to score efficiently in the early '00s when you could actually play defense. Steph wears down from the physicality of TODAY'S playoffs. He'd be in a bodybag by the 2nd round.

The mythologizing of Shaq needs to stop. He was great against the West, but he wasn't putting up the gaudy numbers that he put up against Rik Smits and Todd MacCulloch every series. He isn't dragging just any guard that can score 20 points a game to 3+ titles.

Kobe ran those offenses. He was essentially the only playmaker on the team as a shooting guard. Phil Jackson said it himself in the book where he trashed Kobe :oldlol: He asked Kobe to do more than Jordan in terms of running the offense and playmaking.

But yeah, just throw Harden or Drexler in there. I'm sure they would've cruised to 5 straight titles.

Yup. Phil said Kobe was the best player he ever coached as far as having an overall court game. He never asked MJ to run the offense like Bean did. Kobe led all 5 title teams in assists and 4 of them in shot attempts as well. To say that he was a Pippen is highly disrespectful, considering he closed out all the big games in our 3-peat run and saved us on 3-4 occasions during the 2000 title run. People keep saying "he averaged 15 points in the 2000 Finals" when he really averaged 20 ppg with elite defense in the 4 full games he did play, they never admit that an opposing player went out of his way to intentionally injure him to take him out for the series and he came back and helped us win the series regardless.

You have to laugh at some of these players ISH has said would replace Kobe and win more rings with Shaq, none of them could play defense or run the triangle the way Kobe did.

[Mr Feeny]

Kobe's won 5 rings with 4 as the #1 option, ran the offense in all 5 of them. You can't name me 5 players ahead of him.

Is that why he's the consensus 12th best player ever?:lol

[superduper]

Kobe haters are easily some of the dumbest species of human on this Earth :oldlol:

[Akeem34TheDream]

Kobe haters are easily some of the dumbest species of human on this Earth :oldlol:
And some kobe lovers think he was better than Shaq during those 3 titles. LİKE WTF?

[ImKobe]

And some kobe lovers think he was better than Shaq during those 3 titles. LİKE WTF?

He was better than Shaq in 2001. As dominant as Shaq was, it was Kobe running the offense and closing out the big games. Shaq had the fortune of playing teams with big men who couldn't guard him in the Finals so he got all the FMVPs. You put either the Kings or Spurs in the Finals in 2001 and Kobe wins the Finals MVP. You put the Spurs in the Finals in 2002 and Kobe wins FMVP again. The greatest teams they faced were in the Western Conference. It was a matter of match-ups whether it was Kobe or Shaq who dominated the boxscore and Kobe was more than willing to feed Shaq in order to win a championship.

But that aside, Kobe's clearly better all-time because it's not even comparable when you look at what the two did when they weren't together. 3 straight Finals 2 FMVPs for Kobe vs. 1 sweep loss and role player ring for Shaq and Kobe stayed in LA and played with bums at his peak while Shaq post-Lakers joined every great team there was minus the Spurs.

[Bankaii]

But that aside, Kobe's clearly better all-time because it's not even comparable when you look at what the two did when they weren't together.
Dude your name is ImKobe, nobody is going to take a word you say seriously. Especially when you say bs like what's quoted and actually believe it.

Not a single GM, coach, or even knowledgeable fan is taking ANY version of Kobe over 99-03 Shaq. That point becomes even more clear when you're trying to take a lesser version of Kobe (2000-02) over him.

Y'all keep crying about how the WCF were the "real finals". Please answer this.
IF THE EAST WAS SO WEAK WHY DID KOBE STRUGGLE AGAINST THEM ALMOST EVERY SINGLE YEAR HE WENT TO THE FINALS?

[Mr Feeny]

Is there any doubt that Kobe stans are the most delusional stans in basketball?:lol

There is a reason their hero is ranked 12th all time.

[Akeem34TheDream]

He was better than Shaq in 2001. As dominant as Shaq was, it was Kobe running the offense and closing out the big games. Shaq had the fortune of playing teams with big men who couldn't guard him in the Finals so he got all the FMVPs. You put either the Kings or Spurs in the Finals in 2001 and Kobe wins the Finals MVP. You put the Spurs in the Finals in 2002 and Kobe wins FMVP again. The greatest teams they faced were in the Western Conference. It was a matter of match-ups whether it was Kobe or Shaq who dominated the boxscore and Kobe was more than willing to feed Shaq in order to win a championship.

But that aside, Kobe's clearly better all-time because it's not even comparable when you look at what the two did when they weren't together. 3 straight Finals 2 FMVPs for Kobe vs. 1 sweep loss and role player ring for Shaq and Kobe stayed in LA and played with bums at his peak while Shaq post-Lakers joined every great team there was minus the Spurs.
Yeah what made Shaq great was that there werent many guys that could defend him. Shaq was the man. Simple as that. Just like Kobe was while playing with Pau. And i dont care about all time rankings. But Kobe didn't win 5. His teams did. Kobe won 2.

[scuzzy]

Dude your name is ImKobe, nobody is going to take a word you say seriously. Especially when you say bs like what's quoted and actually believe it.

I get a good chuckle when he goes try hard mode disguising as a Lakers fan day to day, then threads like this where he emotionally erupts and crumbles trying to convince a NBA forum guys like Shaquille O'neal were ass

I mean it says it in title "Kobestans are you....." :

And who's to sprint in and nominate themself? OOPS :oldlol:

[ImKobe]

Yeah what made Shaq great was that there werent many guys that could defend him. Shaq was the man. Simple as that. Just like Kobe was while playing with Pau. And i dont care about all time rankings. But Kobe didn't win 5. His teams did. Kobe won 2.

?

You say his teams won the rings, and then you say he won 2. So he didn't have any real impact on his first 3 rings? He wasn't the leading shot taker and playmaker in 2 out of the 3 in the 3-peat? He didn't hit game-winning shots or have game-saving blocks? He wasn't the best player in some of those series?

The way you tell it, Kobe was a Pippen who was always 2nd fiddle when in reality he averaged 29/7/6 and 27/6/5 for two of those title runs which are far from 2nd option numbers. Who was the one dominating the Spurs? Kobe. Who was the best player in Game 7 against Portland? Kobe. Who closed out all the big Finals games? Kobe.

At some point, you have to look past your personal bias and look at what the players actually did on the court. Shaq was a dominant stats guy but he wasn't the one to run the offense or score a big basket down the stretch, you could foul him and make him miss half of his FTs, you could deny him the ball in the post, there were big men who held him to low stat lines and inefficient FG%. Let's not act like he was Michael Jordan or anything close to that when he was getting swept without Kobe and accomplished 1 role player ring after forcing himself to Miami to play with another all-time great SG, followed by joining Steve Nash's suns, Lebron's Cavs and the Boston Big 3. Wasn't he the guy who got swept by Hakeem despite having the better team around him?

Kobe was clearly the man when he played with Pau. The two situations aren't even comparable. You can't name me one series where Pau even came close to outscoring Kobe. You can't name me one series where Pau carried the offense. Pau had ZERO 30+ point games past the 2nd round of the Playoffs. Pau was a 1x all-star who was 0-12 in the Playoffs. The level of delusion that I have to endure from these Kobe/Laker haters on this forum...


I get a good chuckle when he goes try hard mode disguising as a Lakers fan day to day, then threads like this where he emotionally erupts and crumbles trying to convince a NBA forum guys like Shaquille O'neal were ass

I mean it says it in title "Kobestans are you....." :

And who's to sprint in and nominate themself? OOPS :oldlol:

You have nothing aside from your Ad hominems. You still think that picking one player over another makes the lesser player trash. No. These guys are all on a pretty even level, it's a matter of winning when you get to all the greatest players in sports history. It's why titles have always been an argument across all team and individual sports. You say one organization is better than the other because they've produced more championships, you say player A is more accomplished than player B because they've won more championships. Obviously the players/teams have to be on a similar level for us to even have that discussion. Just because one picks Kobe over Shaq doesn't mean that Shaq is Kwame Brown all of a sudden, he's still one of the 10 best players to ever play the game.

[Manny98]

^ Fuming :oldlol:

[Mr Feeny]

Lol at the Kobe stan:oldlol: :oldlol:

[RRR3]

Did Doranku just say Jerry West didn’t play defense? What? I never watched West but he was known for his defense lmao

[Doranku]

[QUOTE=RRR3]Did Doranku just say Jerry West didn

[LeCramp]

Lol at the Kobe stan:oldlol: :oldlol:


Are you ok peasant? You seem to be on your knees a lot sucking lebrons c0ck.....what is your problem?

[ImKobe]

Lol at the Kobe stan:oldlol: :oldlol:

That's what I expected. Resort to making shitposts when actual facts and arguments are presented.

[Kiddlovesnets]

That's what I expected. Resort to making shitposts when actual facts and arguments are presented.
What an irony, you act like you are in any position to cry about shitpost when essentially all your posts in this thread are shit. Nice try bro, but your denial is futile, Kobe is the consensus 12th greatest player of all time. Nothing you say will change this fact, and we will continue to celebrate national Kobe