The difference between 6/6 and 3/9

[3ball]

It's skill:

LEBRON = only elite on-ball = only fits shooters = lower ceiling, lower brand = weaker teams, 3/9 caliber

JORDAN = elite on and off-ball = fit with everyone = high ceiling and brand, 6/6 caliber


Ditto for Curry, Kawhi and Kobe, who are elite on-ball and off-ball like MJ, and therefore yield better teams over time... :confusedshrug:

I think Lebron can overcome the skill deficit to Curry because of the physical gap, but not Kobe, Kawhi or MJ, who can compete physically with superior skill

[RRR3]

Kobe is so elite off ball he made Steve Nash a spot up shooter.


3braincells strikes again

[sdot_thadon]

It's skill:

LEBRON = only elite on-ball = only fits shooters = lower ceiling, lower brand = weaker teams, 3/9 caliber

JORDAN = elite on and off-ball = fit with everyone = high ceiling and brand, 6/6 caliber


Ditto for Curry, Kawhi and Kobe, who are elite on-ball and off-ball like MJ, and therefore yield better teams over time... :confusedshrug:

I think Lebron can overcome the skill deficit to Curry because of the physical gap, but not Kobe, Kawhi or MJ, who can compete physically with superior skill
The thread about young Lebron cooking everyone in a run with Mj got you this upset?:biggums:

[RRR3]

The thread about young Lebron cooking everyone in a run with Mj got you this upset?:biggums:
Yes, he’s absolutely steaming :oldlol:

[3ball]

Yes, he’s absolutely steaming :oldlol:
No that was debunked - Ron was talking about MJ cooking everyone, not Lebron

https://mobile.twitter.com/MjsGoat/status/1177563816541839360


I posted this thread because I'm always trying to think of the most concise ways to explain why MJ > Lebron to the layman

I think the OP does a decent job, and it's not like any of it can be questioned - it's all common knowledge with endless stats backing it up

[sdot_thadon]

No that was debunked - Ron was talking about MJ cooking everyone, not Lebron

https://mobile.twitter.com/MjsGoat/status/1177563816541839360


I posted this thread because I'm always trying to think of the most concise ways to explain why MJ > Lebron to the layman
Go back to the thread bubba, you can't make your own version of facts when theres audio.:facepalm

[3ball]

Go back to the thread bubba, you can't make your own version of facts when theres audio.:facepalm
Right the audio says mj was cooking everyone - Finley, stackhouse, and Lebron was there

Artest goes on to say how mj was the best in the league at the time and you couldn't stop him on the elbow, etc.. it's all there but Lebron factory cut off a lot of the audio

[sdot_thadon]

Right the audio says mj was cooking everyone - Finley, stackhouse, and Lebron was there

Artest goes on to say how mj was the best in the league at the time and you couldn't stop him on the elbow, etc.. it's all there but Lebron factory cut off a lot of the audio
Which is why your dumb ass should listen to the poscast itself for context instead of a Twitter handle thst says Lebron factory OR MjsGoat. :coleman:

[Hey Yo]

The difference is one needed to rest up for 2yrs and decided to quit the league in his prime.

The other didnt.

They each have 3 rings. Rest up rings dont count.

[3ball]

Which is why your dumb ass should listen to the poscast itself for context instead of a Twitter handle thst says Lebron factory OR MjsGoat. :coleman:

Kuniva, samauiri and everyone in the other thread already got to the bottom of it

Samauri describes it better than me:





Damn, sounds like everyone in here is trying to make their own version of an audio you can just listen to again for clarification.

He said MJ was cooking everyone - finley, stackhouse and a young lebron were in there. Then they get sidetracked on how and why lebron was there as a sophomore, where Ron adds (that lebron was cooking and Ron gave him a forearm to slow him down, to no avail)




At no.point was MJ mentioned, except implied at the beginning to say he was cooking Finley, Stackhouse and lebron.

[RRR3]

If MJ couldn't handle 16 year old LBJ, imagine him facing PRIME LeBron :eek:

LeBron would drop 75/15/15 on his bald head :biggums:

[3ball]

If MJ couldn't handle 16 year old LBJ, imagine him facing PRIME LeBron :eek:

LeBron would drop 75/15/15 on his bald head :biggums:
Non-goats and their fans gotta lie

Goats just rest on the facts and historical record:

twice as much winning as "the man" as anyone else in modern history, while being #1 in PPG, efficiency rating, and 2-way accolades.. no one is close

[Turbo Slayer]

If MJ couldn't handle 16 year old LBJ, imagine him facing PRIME LeBron :eek:

LeBron would drop 75/15/15 on his bald head :biggums:

facts

[RRR3]

Non-goats and their fans gotta lie

Goats just rest on the facts and historical record:

twice as much winning as "the man" as anyone else in modern history, while being #1 in PPG, efficiency rating, and 2-way accolades.. no one is close
You’re arguably the biggest liar on ISH :biggums:

CONSTANTLY making up stats.

[StrongLurk]

A whole generation of people think Lebron is GOAT.

3ball, you can't change that no matter what you do. Wasting your time.

[Turbo Slayer]

A whole generation of people think Lebron is GOAT.

3ball, you can't change that no matter what you do. Wasting your time.

FACTS :banana:

WE STAY WINNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :roll:

[3ball]

A whole generation of people think Lebron is GOAT.

3ball, you can't change that no matter what you do. Wasting your time.
A whole generation thinks Kobe is goat

Another one thinks Bird is

But only MJ is goat when you include all generations and genres - so even after 17 years of watching Lebron in 720 HD or better, the Bleacher Report still puts MJ as goat... Otoh, it only took everyone about 8 years (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6og_pOVi2w&t=0m16s) of watching MJ to think he was easily the goat.

Anyway you look at it, MJ GOAT, while bron is first loser at best

[sdot_thadon]

Kuniva, samauiri and everyone in the other thread already got to the bottom of it

Samauri describes it better than me:





At no.point was MJ mentioned, except implied at the beginning to say he was cooking Finley, Stackhouse and lebron.
For one, that was my post you numbskull:oldlol: And Ron says Lebron was cooking everyone. So unless there was a separate run he's speaking on, which no clarification was given Mj was there.

[3ball]

You’re arguably the biggest liar on ISH :biggums:

CONSTANTLY making up stats.

Playoff stats needed for 3 rings:

Jordan...91-93' Playoffs.'.. - 33.7 ppg and 6.6 apg
Lebron 12/13/16 Playoffs - 27.2 ppg and 7.2 apg


MJ had to score 6 more points (nearly 25% more) with equal assists)

^^

[sdot_thadon]

[BTLDR[/B]: 3ball doesn't make up stats - the haters are simply mad that MJ won as "the man" twice as much as anyone else in the modern era (6 to 3), while being #1 in PPG, efficiency rating, and 2-way accolades (seasons with both 1st team all-nba and 1st team defense)
No he doesn't make up stats, he just purposely fudges the numbers slightly and they always "accidentally " seem to support his case by being off. And he utilizes the most horrendous number rounding logic known to man. :oldlol:

[LAmbruh]

M-M-M-M-M......... :roll:



https://media.giphy.com/media/HufOeXwDOInlK/giphy.gif

[AlternativeAcc.]

LeBron's edge in conference championships makes up for the slight deficit in rings

accolade rise MJ and LeBron are even, it's LeBron's better peak play and longevity that sets him apart GOAT wise

Plus MJ gets a knock for taking a year and change off to rest, he likely never wins another ring without quitting to recover - something LeBron's never done

[3ball]

LeBron's edge in conference championships makes up for the slight deficit in rings


So 3 conference Finals wins = 3 Finals wins?????... :biggums:


WTF... Only a completely blind (and wrong) Lebron stan could say that... :facepalm






accolade rise MJ and LeBron are even


3 less rings

1 less MVP

3 less FMVP

1 less DPOY

9 less scoring titles

4 less 1st team defense


How does Lebron have more accolades again??.. :biggums:






, it's LeBron's better peak play and longevity that sets him apart GOAT wise


What's Lebron's peak, because there's no peak that matches MJ's





Plus MJ gets a knock for taking a year and change off to rest, he likely never wins another ring without quitting to recover - something LeBron's never done


Jordan averaged 41 in the 1993 Finals - no one's ever looked stronger

So lol that he needed a rest

Keep dreaming bud... It's funny

[AlternativeAcc.]

LeBron carrying scrub teams to conference championships is every bit as important/impressive as winning a ring. (and in many cases, is MORE impressive than other players rings).... notably all of Kobe's rings < than most of LeBron's conference titles

The importance of context and critical analysis is important in these discussions because it goes WAY deeper than surface layer (and often times trivial) perks.. like rings/media awards


Building your point on surface layer perks like rings and media awards only speaks to your inability to see the real big picture. You're no more than a casual fan masquerading as a proficient analyst. You're Molly from first take. Sit down.

[RRR3]

I know for a fact that LeBron’s FG% was higher than 45.4% in the 12/13/16 finals. Caught lying yet again.

[LAmbruh]

LeBron carrying scrub teams to conference championships is every bit as important/impressive as winning a ring. (and in many cases, is MORE impressive than other players rings).... notably all of Kobe's rings < than most of LeBron's conference titles

The importance of context and critical analysis is important in these discussions because it goes WAY deeper than surface layer (and often times trivial) perks.. like rings/media awards


Building your point on surface layer perks like rings and media awards only speaks to your inability to see the real big picture. You're no more than a casual fan masquerading as a proficient analyst. You're Molly from first take. Sit down.
:roll: :roll:

[3ball]

LeBron carrying scrub teams to conference championships is every bit as important/impressive as winning a ring


Lebron had the best 2nd option in the conference in 2018, and the best 2nd and 3rd options (super-teams) from 2011-2017.

So he only made it with a weak cast once (2007), when everyone else was doing it too (09' Dwight, 02/03 Kidd, 01' Iverson).. Maybe you could include 2015, but Kyrie only missed 2 games on that Eastern run.

Ultimately, guys like Dwight, AI, Lebron and Kidd proved that a good cast often wasn't needed to win the conference from 2001-2009, yet Lebron failed in 09/10 and stacked the deck from 11-18' to ensure Finals runs

It's pretty damn weak, and you need to get your head out of the sand on this





LeBron carrying scrub teams to conference championships is every bit as important/impressive as winning a ring



MJ's carry-jobs were bigger:



2007 Cavs:. #7 SRS.. 50 wins.. 2 seed
2007 tDET:. #6 SRS.. 53 wins.. 1 seed

1989 Bulls:. #10 SRS.. 47 wins.. 6 seed
1989 Cavs:. n#1 SRS.. 57 wins.. 3 seed.. 3 perennial all-stars*

* plus 20/5/5 Ron Harper






LeBron carrying scrub teams to conference championships is every bit as important/impressive as winning a ring



MJ's carry-jobs were bigger:


Bigger Overachievement: Jordan's 1989 Playoff Run vs. Lebron's 2007


Jordan's Bulls were 47-25 and the 6 seed.
Lebron's Cavs were 50-32 and the 2 seed.


1st Round Jordan:. CLE...(#3 seed, 57-25, #2 ranked defense... 40.0.. 6.0.. 8.1.. 51.8% FG)
1st Round Lebron:. WSH (#7 seed, 41-41, #28 ranked defense.. 27.0.. 8.5.. 7.5.. 42.5% FG)

2nd Round Jordan:. NYK (#2 seed, 52-30, #10 ranked defense... 35.5.. 9.5.. 8.3.. 55.0% FG)
2nd Round Lebron:. NJN (#6 seed, 41-41, #15 ranked defense... 24.7.. 7.3.. 8.5.. 42.3% FG)

Conf. Finals Jordan:. DET (#1 seed, 62-30, #3 ranked defense... 30.0.. 5.5.. 6.5.. 46.0% FG)
Conf. Finals Lebron:. DET (#1 seed, 53-29, #7 ranked defense... 25.7.. 9.1.. 8.5.. 44.9% FG)






LeBron carrying scrub teams to conference championships is every bit as important/impressive as winning a ring


In 2007, Lebron's 2 seed was swept 4-0 by the champs while he averaged 22/7/6 on 36%

In 1989, Jordan's 6 seed went 6 games with the champs, while he averaged 30/7/6 on 47%


No comparison






LeBron carrying scrub teams to conference championships is every bit as important/impressive as winning a ring



19 Giannis > 07' Lebron



Giannis 19' ECF...'' vs. Champs - 23/14/6 on 44.8 fg.. 23.7% on jumpers
Lebron. 07' Finals vs. Champs - 22/7/6.. on 35.6 fg.. 17.9% on jumpers


Links for jumpshot stats:

Giannis: https://stats.nba.com/player/203507/...offs&PORound=3

Lebron: https://stats.nba.com/player/2544/sh...offs&PORound=4






LeBron carrying scrub teams to conference championships is every bit as important/impressive as winning a ring



09' Mo was far better than 89' Pippen:


09' Mo Will RS:. 18/3/4.. 58.8 ts.. 115 ORtg.. 17.1 PER.. 0.165 ws/48.. 2.3 bpm.. 3.1 vorp
89' Pippen RS:.. 14/6/4.. 52.4 ts.. 102 ORtg.. 14.9 PER.. 0.080 ws/48.. 1.4 bpm.. 2.1 vorp

09' Mo Will ECF:.ni 18/3/4.. 50.5 ts.. 102 ORtg.. lost to #4 SRS (2 all-stars)
89' Pippen 1st Rd:. 15/9/4.. 51.0 ts.. 102 ORtg.. beat 'o #1 SRS (3 all-stars*)

* plus 20/5/5 Ron Harper


Looks like Lebron had the far better cast but lost to a worse team than MJ defeated in 89'.. :confusedshrug:

Mo was also better than 19' Middleton:


MO.... WILLIAMS....:. 18/3/5.. 58.8 ts.. 115 ortg.. 17.2 PER.. 0.165 ws.. 2.3 bpm.. 3.1 vorp
KHRIS MIDDLETON:. 18/5/3.. 55.5 ts.. 106 ortg.. 16.3 PER.. 0.122 ws.. 0.7 bpm.. 1.6 vorp






LeBron carrying scrub teams to conference championships is every bit as important/impressive as winning a ring


Lebron had the.. #1 SRS team in 2009, but lost to the #4 SRS team

Jordan had the #10 SRS team in 1989, but beat the #1 SRS team..

Heck, MJ pulled a bigger upset than Dwight... :oldlol:


^^^^^ That's not significant??...

The reality is that pre-2011 Lebron had 4 teammates that were superior to 89' Pippen:



- all-star Mo
- 2-time all-star Jamison
- steals leader and 22/5/5 first-team defender - 05' Hughes
- 2-time all-star Zydrunas


Yet MJ won 6 rings and Lebron lost to Dwight in 09', faked an elbow injury during a 2010 meltdown, and then started team-hopping in 11'.

Heck, Lebron had the reigning East all-star center in 06' and 22/5/5 all-defender Hughes - one must assume that MJ would've beaten 89' Detroit with these guys rather than 89' Pip

Ultimately, there's this perception that pre-2011 Lebron was carrying lottery casts to high seeds and the Finals, while MJ was losing with Pip... But in reality, MJ's 85-89' casts are worse than anything Lebron ever had... That's why MJ had to carry his team to a close series with the 89' champs, while Lebron shoots 35% but still takes the champs 7 in 08'

[FromDowntown]

Jordan beat no one

LeBron beat the cream of the crop

Take notes

[3ball]

Jordan beat no one

LeBron beat the cream of the crop

Take notes
You're ignoring reality

Everyone knows that his "not 6, not 7" Heat had the most talent in the league from 2011-2014, and his 2016 Cavs saw their 2nd option demolish the Warriors' 1st option...

In other words, Lebron had Big 3 superteams and can't complain about facing talent deficits - it's his opponents that can complain about facing talent deficits to his colluded, stacked deck teams

Ultimately, Lebron had his own Big 3's and only faced a talent deficit in 07', 15', and 18'...

17' is debatable and the goat is supposed to make up for differences anyway - the fact that he never did shows he isn't the goat.. the only talent deficit he overcame was the 2007 ECF, and MJ overcame much bigger talent deficits then that - let me know if you need me to specify with all the relevant stats and proof



Jordan beat no one

LeBron beat the cream of the crop

Take notes
Facing great teams is no excuse for not having a great team yourself that can compete EVENLY - but Lebron is 2-5 against the best teams of the era (Spurs/Warriors), so Lebron failed to compete at an elite standard (let alone a goat standard)

[RRR3]

mmmm smack MJ mmm smack
:biggums:

[3ball]

:biggums:
My last 3 responses to you, AlternativeAcc, and FromDowntown (probably all the same person) are home runs

They literally make you speechless (your last post)

Pick up your jaw off the floor and take notes son. There's a lot of knowledge there
.

[RRR3]

I jack off to old MJ tapes. Dem short shorts doe
:biggums:

[Turbo Slayer]

My last 3 responses to you, AlternativeAcc, and FromDowntown (probably all the same person) are home runs

They literally make you speechless (your last post)

Pick up your jaw off the floor and take notes son. There's a lot of knowledge there
.

Im in your head. Im back after doing my long ass essay.

Im back.

[Wally450]

Another one...

[stalkerforlife]

My last 3 responses to you, AlternativeAcc, and FromDowntown (probably all the same person) are home runs

They literally make you speechless (your last post)

Pick up your jaw off the floor and take notes son. There's a lot of knowledge there
.

Damn. :roll:

[RoseCity07]

Yeah it's a skill to have Scottie Pippen.:lol

[Manny98]

Jordan is 6/6 because he faced WEAK finals competition the weakest of anyone in the top 10 like how do are you going to lose against a team with Jeff Hornacek as your second scoring option :oldlol: or a Lakers team that was crippled with injuries.

LeBron is 3/9 because

2007 - he was massive underdog going into the finals as he took the worst cast in history to the finals + his second option Hughes was hurt

2011 - he choked simple as that

2014 - Wades knees broke down and that Heat team was old af outside of LeBron

2015 - Kyrie + Love injured

2017 - 3 stars vs 4 stars the Warriors simply had more talent

2018 - 1 star vs 4 stars the Warriors simply had more talent

So 2011 was the only finals in which LeBron underperformed

LeBron will win 2 of the next 3 as he actually has a team with good talent around him

[3ball]

Jordan is 6/6 because he faced WEAK finals competition the weakest of anyone in the top 10 like how do are you going to lose against a team with Jeff Hornacek as your second scoring option :oldlol: or a Lakers team that was crippled with injuries.

LeBron is 3/9 because

2007 - he was massive underdog going into the finals as he took the worst cast in history to the finals + his second option Hughes was hurt... (22 on 36% = deserves blame... Period)

2011 - he choked simple as that

2014 - Wades knees broke down and that Heat team was old af outside of LeBron... Spurs' core was much older

2015 - Kyrie + Love injured

2017 - 3 stars vs 4 stars... many teams overcome a 1-star deficit - that's nothing

2018 - 2 star vs 4 stars... many teams overcome a 2-star deficit - (11' Mavs, 89' Bulls)

So 2011 was the only finals in which LeBron underperformed

LeBron will win 2 of the next 3 as he actually has a team with good talent around him

^^^ answered in the bolded above

And Lebron had a super-team from 2011-2017 and only went 3/7

Ultimately, which path is harder:



1) developing favorite status by building teammates and brand over several years

2) landing on teams favored to win it all in year 1 of existence*

* lebron's teams were preseason and pre-playoffs favorites in 2011 & 2015
.

[zeerghit]

can someone tell me what jodan record is against other great larry Bird? and anyone maybe knows what is jordan record without pippen? anyone?

[3ball]

can someone tell me what jodan record is against other great larry Bird?


Bird had a 4 all-star advantage on MJ, but once MJ got just 1 all-star, he was practically undefeated vs Bird

Otoh, Lebron loses to Dirk, Duncan and Curry with multiple all-star teammates





and anyone maybe knows what is jordan record without pippen? anyone?


Most stars like Durant, Kyrie, Curry, Lebron, and Giannis miss the playoffs the first few years - so MJ's 1-9 is better then they did, and his 8 seed losses should be perceived as an accelerated learning curve compared to his lottery peers, rather than failures.

[zeerghit]

Bird had a 4 all-star advantage on MJ, but once MJ got just 1 all-star, he was practically undefeated vs Bird

Otoh, Lebron loses to Dirk, Duncan and Curry with multiple all-star teammates



Most stars like Durant, Kyrie, Curry, Lebron, and Giannis miss the playoffs the first few years - so MJ's 1-9 is better then they did, and his 8 seed losses should be perceived as an accelerated learning curve compared to his lottery peers, rather than failures.
ill help you
https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/tiny.fcgi?id=AltqA
i really like playoff results against "GOAT"

[Sakkreth]

The difference is the competition in finals.

[3ball]

GIANNIS 19' ECF...'' vs. Champs - 23/14/6 on 44.8 fg.. 23.7% on jumpers... labeled "exposed"
LEBRON. 07' Finals vs. Champs - 22/7/6.. on 35.6 fg.. 17.9% on jumpers... given a pass


Links for jumpshot stats:

Giannis: https://stats.nba.com/player/203507/...offs&PORound=3
Lebron: https://stats.nba.com/player/2544/sh...offs&PORound=4




The difference is the competition in finals.
Heat had the best talent from 2011-2014, yet only 2/4

And you're comparing teams from a 2-star vs 2-star format to a 3-star vs. 3-star format... i.e. Lebron had big 3's himself and wasn't facing talent deficits until 2017 and 2018

He faced a talent deficit in 2007, but still deserves blame because he played so bad - we label Giannis as "exposed" for playing and shooting way better against the 19' champs than Lebron did against the 07' champs (stats above)

In 2017, Lebron had a prime Big 3 but let his matchup average 36 on 56%.. Why not 25 on 45%?.. why is that too much to ask when 30 teams in the regular season held KD to 25?... Heck, even 30 would've been "respectable"... Also, Lebron only averaged 34 despite a 100 pace and 115 DRtg series.. Compare to Jordan's 82 pace and 100 DRtg Finals (98'), or 90 pace and 113 drtg Finals (93')... translation: lebron should've averaged 40 in those conditions or it's not goat level
.

[zeerghit]

the time you waste to suck(defend) his d*ck with ur long a*s posts is hilarious:applause:

[egokiller]

The difference is one needed to rest up for 2yrs and decided to quit the league in his prime.

The other didnt.

They each have 3 rings. Rest up rings dont count.

Actually rest up rings count as double rings because you shouldn’t be able to come back into the league after being out of practice for so long and 3 peat again. :applause:

3ball wins again

[ImKobe]

Jordan is 6/6 because he faced WEAK finals competition the weakest of anyone in the top 10 like how do are you going to lose against a team with Jeff Hornacek as your second scoring option :oldlol: or a Lakers team that was crippled with injuries.

LeBron is 3/9 because

2007 - he was massive underdog going into the finals as he took the worst cast in history to the finals + his second option Hughes was hurt

2011 - he choked simple as that

2014 - Wades knees broke down and that Heat team was old af outside of LeBron

2015 - Kyrie + Love injured

2017 - 3 stars vs 4 stars the Warriors simply had more talent

2018 - 1 star vs 4 stars the Warriors simply had more talent

So 2011 was the only finals in which LeBron underperformed

LeBron will win 2 of the next 3 as he actually has a team with good talent around him

He flat out played terribly in 2007 and 2011, 2015 he had a 2 - 1 lead with Game 4 at home and put up one of his worst Playoff performances while he had a big man putting up elite numbers, completely choked in a game that would have put him up 3 - 1 against an inexperienced Warriors squad. Iguodala outplayed him in the 3 straight losses.

His team was good enough to win in 2017 but he choked in crunch time of Game 3 and played his worst defense in that Finals with his opponents shooting over 60% while being guarded by him.

[3ball]

the time you waste to suck(defend) his d*ck with ur long a*s posts is hilarious:applause:
Look how much worse 07' and 08' Lebron shot and played against the champs than 19' Giannis, yet you label Giannis "exposed" and pat Lebron on the back... :facepalm

I have to point out your misperception.. :applause:

[eliteballer]

Savage.

[FromDowntown]

You're ignoring reality

Everyone knows that his "not 6, not 7" Heat had the most talent in the league from 2011-2014, and his 2016 Cavs saw their 2nd option demolish the Warriors' 1st option...

In other words, Lebron had Big 3 superteams and can't complain about facing talent deficits - it's his opponents that can complain about facing talent deficits to his colluded, stacked deck teams

Ultimately, Lebron had his own Big 3's and only faced a talent deficit in 07', 15', and 18'...

17' is debatable and the goat is supposed to make up for differences anyway - the fact that he never did shows he isn't the goat.. the only talent deficit he overcame was the 2007 ECF, and MJ overcame much bigger talent deficits then that - let me know if you need me to specify with all the relevant stats and proof



Facing great teams is no excuse for not having a great team yourself that can compete EVENLY - but Lebron is 2-5 against the best teams of the era (Spurs/Warriors), so Lebron failed to compete at an elite standard (let alone a goat standard)

2012 and 2013 you are right the Heat were pretty stacked, but not 2011 and definitely not 2014 dont you remember Dwyane was a shell of himself and Ray Allen was getting older. Hell he was already old in 2013.

2011 had Joel Anthony starting at center and Carlos Arroyo starting at Point. That team was not stacked and that was before pieces like Chris Andersen and Ray Allen.