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View Full Version : Discussion I had on how good Superman would be at basketball leads me to ask.....



Kblaze8855
10-03-2019, 06:13 AM
Do you think that sheer athleticism can make someone effective? A real human I mean not...a superhero. You hear all the time from people who no doubt consider themselves true fans and operating on a higher level of understanding than most(its always a douche like that) that _____ isnt a good player...hes a good athlete. Might be Giannis....or Westbrook....ive heard it of Rose. Shaq. Dwight Howard. Zion. Lots of guys. Generally its people who dont have good jumpers. Or maybe handles. Its one of the two. Fans who consider themselves purist acting like basketball is nothing but shooting and handles is pretty funny to me. Have guys like Giannis who are pulling down 13 rebounds a game and being elite defenders....but overall bad at basketball because of the way they also score 25-30ppg. As if there is any way to be an elite defender and rebounder who can even score 15....and be BAD at basketball. But the joke that is people thinking they know basketball but still thinking basketball is just Kyrie Irving isnt really my point here....


Back to superman for a moment.

Say he comes to earth tomorrow. He didnt grow up here. He never saw a basketball. But he wants to play. Lets say hes agreed not to outright fly...hes gonna try to play real basketball. He wouldnt be a good shooter obviously. He couldnt handle the ball at all. But of course he would still be good....

A team with superman on it simply couldnt be scored on if he wanted to prevent it. You cant pass the ball vs superman. Hed be in the passing lanes too quickly. Cant get a shot off. You cant beat him off the dribble. You cant set a screen fast enough for him to not go under or over and stop his man.....and the roll man too.

You just cant win vs supermans team once they take a lead.

On offense hes setting the best screens ever....and hes always gonna be open off the ball. You cant catch him. Now....if he cant shoot....a zone helps you there....and with no handles hes not so much taking guys off the dribble as...having an impossible first step. But hes still gotta dribble. Hed be a clumsy god who couldnt stop traveling. He would be unstoppable on the break....but only off ball. Doesnt matter if you can move at light speed if you cant dribble the ball at light speed. And he couldnt. Even if he had the coordination....hed destroy the ball. What you would do....let him run down the court...then throw a lob just somewhere near the basket. Off the ball you cant keep him from where he wants to go.

You would find a way to win even if he werent willing to outright cheat and fly around. His athletic ability would be too much to contain. He wouldnt be much faster than anyone else with the ball provided you didnt let him travel...but without the ball in his hands hes just forever appearing where he wants to be and setting impossible screens and cherrypicking for transition dunks. Add the defense....his team couldnt lose.

Would that make superman good at basketball for you "purists"?

Long story short....does anything but being effective matter?

If youre effective without whatever skills you choose to value...are you good?

Is there a difference between good and effective?

If so....why?

If someone can be dominant, win more games than most you do consider good, and be productive.....

How do you reach a conclusion they arent good...because of how they do it?

When basketball is an athletic activity how do we pretend being athletic isnt a factor in how good you are?

And its not like any of these people actually ARENT skilled....

The skill difference is why all those super athletes in the NFL arent in the NBA making 4 times the money to not crack their heads open. Vernon Davis in his prime had like a 42 inch vertical, benched about 500, and ran a 4.38 40 at 250 pounds. If you could just athletic ability your way to NBA stardom(short of superhero athletic ability) he and dozens of other freaks would do it. Go look up Montez Sweats combine numbers. That guy jumps 38 inches with a 4.4 40 at 6'6'' 265.....with a 7 foot wingspan and hands the size of a center.

I promise you....hes not making NFL money because he doesnt want 250 million in the NBA. Hes just not that good at basketball.

The things people like him cant do....are show the skills guys like Giannis, Zion, and whoever else you wanna use have. It isnt just genetic. Theres a reason Giannis has 3 brothers who arent as good with the same DNA.

We just seem to have trouble putting a label on people who play the game in a way we cant wrap our heads around because we cant do it. You cant be Zion through work ethic. But the few people who can be....usually arent....because they didnt develop the skills.

The basketball skill is the difference between Blake Griffin and a good tight end in the NFL. It seems so obvious it doesnt need saying but....the more I read ISH the more it seems it does need saying.

I think some of you actually believe that you can be an athlete.....who cant play basketball....but go score 20-30 a game in the NBA....while not being superman.

Id like to hear one of you say so. I want one of you people who say these things to go on record....and tell me....someone can be an NB superstar without knowing how to play basketball. I want to know if im taking you too literal...which ive assumed before....but been told no. That some of you literally believe....you can be the MVP of the NBA and be bad at the sport.

Largely said because of not performing well in some situations....while hundreds of people who are supposedly good....are also not performing. But it doesnt seem these things are really thought through that much.

Just clear it up for me so im not taking your position wrong.

"____ isnt good at basketball...hes athletic" crowd.

Tell me.

Whats separates these NBA stars who cant play from equally physically gifted athletes in other sports who would...in a basketball game...suck?

Uncle Drew
10-03-2019, 06:32 AM
What kind of insane conversations are you having?

MrFonzworth
10-03-2019, 07:15 AM
I read like the first 20 lines, scrolled down and realized i wasnt an 8th of the way done with the post. You do know that 90% of ISH isn't even going 10 lines deep right? We come here for two reasons:

To spam laugh emotes at posters we like and to troll posters we don't like. That's 90% of ISH.

Kblaze8855
10-03-2019, 07:35 AM
I’m almost never talking to 90% of ISH. But I do have ridiculous conversations with the people around me every day.

This particular one....we settled on Spider-Man being the best basketball player among major superheroes. Superhuman physical attributes plus the accuracy and coordination?

Spider-Man would appear skilled even if he never played.

iamgine
10-03-2019, 07:54 AM
Ok you can't base this kind of athletic argument with Superman. Because Superman is much too OP that he's irrelevant to the discussion. Guy can move at light speed. He'd just dunk from end to end without even flying.

But to the question, of course sheer athleticism can make someone effective...within reason. What kind of question is this?

chains5000
10-03-2019, 07:58 AM
Most people posting here are retards who believe multiple All Star players or former MVPs were bad players hurting their teams.
They make fun of super athletic players for having "no skills", while they mock ultra skilled but less physically gifted ones.

I'd say it's easier to play in the NBA if what you're lacking it's skill than athleticism, but you still need skill and intelligence.

I once heard it takes three things to be an All Time great: athleticism, skill and the right mentality(desire to win at all costs). Lesser players lack one or the other.

BTW, can Superman hit his FTs or HackAClark is an option to stop him?

Kblaze8855
10-03-2019, 09:20 AM
Ok you can't base this kind of athletic argument with Superman. Because Superman is much too OP that he's irrelevant to the discussion. Guy can move at light speed. He'd just dunk from end to end without even flying.

But to the question, of course sheer athleticism can make someone effective...within reason. What kind of question is this?


The kind of question I thought didn

Kblaze8855
10-03-2019, 09:22 AM
And yes I

iamgine
10-03-2019, 10:00 AM
I swear I've seen Supes throw stuff with some accuracy.

Also, the guy can stop accurately on a dime while traveling at near light speed. What's body control on only bball court distance? You don't need to touch the ring when dunking, just slam the ball through ala Dwight's dunk contest.

FKAri
10-03-2019, 10:21 AM
And yes I’m fouling Superman every time he gets it. He’s like a normal human at the line....only one who never shot a basketball. I’m gonna make that game real ugly.
He will never let you foul him if he doesn't want you to. Anyways, this thread actually makes one wonder who wins 1 on 1? Superman or Goku?

stalkerforlife
10-03-2019, 10:36 AM
No one thinks players like Giannis are bad players.

We just don't exalt them like the media.

When real basketball is played, Giannis has weaknesses exposed and we're just reacting to so many claiming he's the best in the world.

Same with Westbrook and similar players.

They're obviously good basketball players, but just not what the masses claim.

90sgoat
10-03-2019, 10:39 AM
Spiderman would have sick handles and he wouldn't even get called for travel today.

imdaman99
10-03-2019, 10:47 AM
No one thinks players like Giannis are bad players.

We just don't exalt them like the media.

When real basketball is played, Giannis has weaknesses exposed and we're just reacting to so many claiming he's the best in the world.

Same with Westbrook and similar players.

They're obviously good basketball players, but just not what the masses claim.
You know Westbrook was basically a 1 man show in his MVP year right? He should have trusted Oladipo more but that's not my point. Every close game, Westbrook took over. And he was hitting clutch shots, not even layups. He was hitting 30 footers to tie games and win games. C'mon man. I know it's easy to say he's only an athlete without any skill because of his last season he just had, but he was more than that...especially his MVP year.

sdot_thadon
10-03-2019, 10:53 AM
Superman would be impossible to stop on cuts off ball. You could literally just pass it to an empty spot near the rim and he'd be there to catch it and finish. :oldlol:

But to answer the underlying theme of your question? Athletes need skill to be effective, otherwise guys like James White should have a long and fruitful Nba career instead of a worldwide journeyman. Here most guys are idiots......or let their biases plus refusal to back off a stance make them appear as idiots. So yes uber athletes somehow make it to the top of their sport with "no skill" or even up the all time rankings as silly as that sounds.

imdaman99
10-03-2019, 10:58 AM
I'm pretty sure one of the first few seasons of Smallville had a theme like this. Clark wanted to be on the football team while his pops was against it because he could seriously hurt someone if he even went 10% out. Of course he lost his temper and trucked someone and decided to quit the team :lol superman would hurt anyone that tried to foul him. Sorry kblaze you would be in pain for trying to foul him. I'm sure with any practice he would turn out respectable at free throws.

Kblaze8855
10-03-2019, 11:06 AM
I swear I've seen Supes throw stuff with some accuracy.

Also, the guy can stop accurately on a dime while traveling at near light speed. What's body control on only bball court distance? You don't need to touch the ring when dunking, just slam the ball through ala Dwight's dunk contest.


He could only stop himself midair by flying. If he jumps from some absurd distance....hed have to have air brakes or something. If hes just using leg strength to jump...hed have to do it with some pretty insane control to not just overshoot it.

Has anyone ever seen superman jump? Why would he? He can fly. Though when he was created....he wasnt flying. He was just leaping. The superman we mean....he flys.

Kblaze8855
10-03-2019, 11:07 AM
He will never let you foul him if he doesn't want you to. Anyways, this thread actually makes one wonder who wins 1 on 1? Superman or Goku?


At basketball....goku. Goku is far more coordinated. Spiderman agility plus superman strength. Goku got to where he is by training. Superman is who he is by genetics and being under the right sun. Goku knows how to use his body....superman doesnt need to. You cant hurt him anyway.

Kblaze8855
10-03-2019, 11:11 AM
No one thinks players like Giannis are bad players.

We just don't exalt them like the media.

When real basketball is played, Giannis has weaknesses exposed and we're just reacting to so many claiming he's the best in the world.

Same with Westbrook and similar players.

They're obviously good basketball players, but just not what the masses claim.


Id like to think nobody thinks it. But when its explained...these are the responses I get:




Do you not know what a fcking travel is?

Do you not know what palming the fcking ball is?

You got a lot of excuses for a guy that doesn't follow the two most basic rules of the game. It's like you type all this stuff while ignoring the fact that he's l39ron on steroids out there; stiff arming, traveling, carrying his way to the basket almost every drive while the refs look the other way because of... well $$$


Most of basketball is not ball handling or shooting.....but thats how people see it.

An ISH search for this subject will give you plenty of results of people trying to explain why ____ is in fact bad. I have a hard time accepting that people are that stupid. Perhaps they are that unwilling to give credit to someone they dont like....

LostCause
10-03-2019, 11:56 AM
At basketball....goku. Goku is far more coordinated. Spiderman agility plus superman strength. Goku got to where he is by training. Superman is who he is by genetics and being under the right sun. Goku knows how to use his body....superman doesnt need to. You cant hurt him anyway.

Nah man

I recall Goku slapping his own wife through mountains just joking around and trying to pat her on the back. Superman actually lives, works and grew up among humans everyday so he's better at controlling himself and his strength

Kblaze8855
10-03-2019, 11:59 AM
At holding back perhaps. But in terms of an athletic contest of some sort? Hes not good....at anything. He is too great a physical specimen for that to matter when the opponent is a human. Goku?


Goku is superman strong....but trains harder than Batman.

If Superman worked on his body like Batman must....superman could compete with Goku.

Goku is superman if he didnt rely on being superman to win fights.

jlip
10-03-2019, 12:48 PM
With his super speed and leaping ability Superman would average 30+ppg off outlet passes and lobs alone.

iamgine
10-03-2019, 12:59 PM
He could only stop himself midair by flying. If he jumps from some absurd distance....hed have to have air brakes or something. If hes just using leg strength to jump...hed have to do it with some pretty insane control to not just overshoot it.

Has anyone ever seen superman jump? Why would he? He can fly. Though when he was created....he wasnt flying. He was just leaping. The superman we mean....he flys.
I don't know, I feel we are looking at this from normal human terms. What if you have unlimited energy and ultra fast mind like Supes. Would it be hard for you to control your body while jumping? I personally don't think so because...why would it be?

brooks_thompson
10-03-2019, 07:07 PM
All I could think of while reading this thread was Cyclops on the court wearing ruby quartz Horace Grant-era Rec Specs.

ClipperRevival
10-03-2019, 08:27 PM
What kind of insane conversations are you having?

:roll:

Kblaze8855
10-04-2019, 07:32 AM
I don't know, I feel we are looking at this from normal human terms. What if you have unlimited energy and ultra fast mind like Supes. Would it be hard for you to control your body while jumping? I personally don't think so because...why would it be?



Once hes in the air what would his mind speed and energy have to do with the forces at play that stop him from moving forward if he doesnt just...fly?

Anyone with superhuman leg strength could jump from some crazy distance...but a guy who can probably leap into orbit being able to do it perfectly from like 50 feet....without being too high or low when he arrives at the rim?

Thats a tough ask.

Hulk can jump a mile....doesnt mean he can dunk from a mile. Supermans legs could probably destroy a moon. Hed at least need to work on something like this I think. And when would he have ever practiced?

Like I said...you never....ever...see him jump.

Spiderman? yea. Precise leaps all the time.

Superman? 100000 times spiderman strength with virtually no practice being agile. He flys around. In fights he doesnt even dodge punches. Why would he?

Hes too powerful to be good at things. He wins by being superman not being good at anything. Hed still be a great player because hes too athletic not to be. But I wouldnt count on any finesse moves...and id call a 60 foot dunk a pretty precise operation. Spiderman? Yea.

I buy spiderman doing just about anything on a basketball court.