Jordan beat a better version of 07' and 11' Lebron in 1992

[3ball]

Drexler 1992 PO:. 26.3.. 7.4.. 7.0.. 55.8 ts.. 120 ortg.. 6.2 obpm.. 2.1 vorp.. 22.8 PER
Lebron' 2011 PO:. 23.7.. 8.4.. 5.9.. 56.3 ts.. 113 ortg.. 5.4 obpm.. 2.3 vorp.. 23.7 PER
Lebron' 2007 PO:. 25.1.. 8.1.. 8.0.. 51.6 ts.. 109 ortg.. 5.4 obpm.. 2.4 vorp.. 23.9 PER

Drexler 1992 Finals:. 24.8.. 7.8.. 5.3.. 52.2 ts.. 3.0 tov.. 113 ortg.. 18.4 gmsc
Lebron' 2011 Finals:. 17.8.. 7.2.. 6.8.. 54.1 ts.. 4.0 tov.. 102 ortg.. 13.7 gmsc
Lebron' 2007 Finals:. 22.0.. 7.0.. 6.8.. 42.8 ts.. 5.8 tov.... 83 ortg.. 10.6 gmsc

Drexler 1992 RS:. 25.0.. 6.6.. 6.7.. 56.0 ts.. 117 ortg.. 6.6 obpm.. 7.2 vorp.. 23.6 PER
Lebron' 2011 RS:. 26.7.. 7.5.. 7.0.. 59.4 ts.. 113 ortg.. 6.5 obpm.. 7.6 vorp.. 27.3 PER
Lebron' 2007 RS:. 27.3.. 6.7.. 6.0.. 55.2 ts.. 109 ortg.. 5.4 obpm.. 7.6 vorp.. 24.5 PER


However, the Lebron fans/media spread propoganda telling everyone that Pippen > Drexler... :oldlol:
.

[Wally450]

Another one...

[Dr Hawk]

It is understandable that people choose Pippen over Drexler because, appart from being a great player himself, we connect Pippen's career with success, while that doesn't happen as much with Drexler.

I think Drexler was the better first option player, but if I already had a superstar in my team, I might choose Pippen (of course, Pippen winning 6 rings has a big influence on me, if that didn't happen in real life, I guess I would choose Drexler everytime).

[Manny98]

Your stats prove that LeBron was better in the regular season and postseason higher PER and everything

So no Jordan never beat a better version of 07 and 11 LeBron

[3ball]

Your stats prove that LeBron was better in the regular season and postseason higher PER and everything

So no Jordan never beat a better version of 07 and 11 LeBron

Drexler has better:


ppg
ts
tov
ortg
obpm
gamescore



Lebron has better:


rebs
assists
ws/48
PER
vorp


So Drexler beats him even without considering Lebron's horrific Finals performances in those years

[3ball]

Jordan vs. Drexler FT line dunks:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y7bMdTTu0dg

Goat athletes - no elite SG's in today's game are anywhere near this athleticism

(This (http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/8-08-2015/YozdEc.gif) was MJ's best FT dunk from 87', where he took off from the actual line)
.

[superduper]

Anotha one

[ImKobe]

LeDrexler :roll:


Your stats prove that LeBron was better in the regular season and postseason higher PER and everything

So no Jordan never beat a better version of 07 and 11 LeBron

2007 and 2011 versions of Lebron weren't that great to begin with. He had some flashes but he was underwhelming in both Finals, where defenses challenged his shooting ability and he folded like a lawn chair.

[bigkingsfan]

That sweet irony when Pippen outplayed Drexler in the finals and led them back in the game six with Ordan on the bench.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=168&v=ByNeavLHSRU

[Kblaze8855]

What are those regular season numbers? Dont look right for even per 36 or 48.

[3ball]

That sweet irony when Pippen outplayed Drexler in the finals and led them back in the game six with Ordan on the bench.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=168&v=ByNeavLHSRU
No one paid attention to Pippen and he had a light load on both ends, yet Drexler still outplayed him while guarding MJ:

Drexler 1992 Finals... 24.8.. 7.8.. 5.3.. 52.2 ts.. 3.0 tov.. 113 ortg.. 18.4 gmsc
Pippen 1992 Finals... 20.8.. 8.3.. 7.7.. 56.1 ts.. 3.7 tov.. 111 ortg.. 18.1 gmsc


When Drexler had the same easy load as 2nd option, his advantage was bigger:

Drexler 1995 Finals... 21.5.. 9.5.. 6.8.. 56.0 ts.. 1.5 tov.. 126 ortg.. 20.1 gmsc
Pippen 1992 Finals... 20.8.. 8.3.. 7.7.. 56.1 ts.. 3.7 tov.. 111 ortg.. 18.1 gmsc

[bigkingsfan]

Drexler 1992 Finals... 24.8.. 7.8.. 5.3.. 52.2 ts.. 3.0 tov.. 113 ortg.. 18.4 gmsc
Pippen 1992 Finals... 20.8.. 8.3.. 7.7.. 56.1 ts.. 3.7 tov.. 111 ortg.. 18.1 gmsc

PER , DRtg, babyboi.

[3ball]

What are those regular season numbers? Dont look right for even per 36 or 48.
Fixed

[Hey Yo]

Drexler 1992 PO:. 26.3.. 7.4.. 7.0.. 55.8 ts.. 120 ortg.. 6.2 obpm.. 2.1 vorp.. 22.8 PER
Lebron' 2011 PO:. 23.7.. 8.4.. 5.9.. 56.3 ts.. 113 ortg.. 5.4 obpm.. 2.3 vorp.. 23.7 PER
Lebron' 2007 PO:. 25.1.. 8.1.. 8.0.. 51.6 ts.. 109 ortg.. 5.4 obpm.. 2.4 vorp.. 23.9 PER

Drexler 1992 Finals:. 24.8.. 7.8.. 5.3.. 52.2 ts.. 3.0 tov.. 113 ortg.. 18.4 gmsc
Lebron' 2011 Finals:. 17.8.. 7.2.. 6.8.. 54.1 ts.. 4.0 tov.. 102 ortg.. 13.7 gmsc
Lebron' 2007 Finals:. 22.0.. 7.0.. 6.8.. 42.8 ts.. 5.8 tov.... 83 ortg.. 10.6 gmsc

Drexler 1992 RS:. 25.0.. 6.6.. 6.7.. 56.0 ts.. 117 ortg.. 6.6 obpm.. 7.2 vorp.. 23.6 PER
Lebron' 2011 RS 23.7.. 8.4.. 5.9.. 59.4 ts.. 113 ortg.. 6.5 obpm.. 7.6 vorp.. 27.3 PER
Lebron' 2007 RS:. 25.1.. 8.1.. 8.0.. 55.1 ts.. 109 ortg.. 5.4 obpm.. 8.2 vorp.. 24.5 PER


However, the Lebron fans/media spread propoganda telling everyone that Pippen > Drexler... :oldlol:
.
2011 James in the RS went for 26-7-7.... NOT 23-8-6

always having to change LeBron's numbers to make them lower just screams that you know deep down LeBron > MJ.

[3ball]

:rolleyes:

[3ball]

2011 James in the RS went for 26-7-7.... NOT 23-8-6

always having to change LeBron's numbers to make them lower just screams that you know deep down LeBron > MJ.
I just fixed all that, and I had originally overstated Lebron's assists and rebounds

Ultimately, the stats show that 92' Drexler was easily superior in the playoffs and Finals to 07/11 Lebron, while being equal in the regular season

[Hey Yo]

I just fixed all that, and I had originally overstated Lebron's assists and rebounds

Ultimately, the stats show that 92' Drexler was easily superior in the playoffs and Finals to 07/11 Lebron, while being equal in the regular season
07 (LeBron's 4th season) he was leading his team to the Finals.

Drexler's 4th season, he finally won the full time starting SG job over Jim Paxson. :roll:

[3ball]

PER , DRtg, babyboi.
^^^ we don't have PER data for the Finals, and drtg is basically a team stat



PER , DRtg, babyboi.

No one paid attention to Pippen at 2nd option and he had a light load on both ends, yet Drexler still outplayed him while guarding MJ:

Drexler 1992 Finals... 24.8.. 7.8.. 5.3.. 52.2 ts.. 3.0 tov.. 113 ortg.. 18.4 gmsc
Pippen 1992 Finals... 20.8.. 8.3.. 7.7.. 56.1 ts.. 3.7 tov.. 111 ortg.. 18.1 gmsc


When old Drexler had the same easy load as 2nd option, his advantage was bigger:

Drexler 1995 Finals... 21.5.. 9.5.. 6.8.. 56.0 ts.. 1.5 tov.. 126 ortg.. 20.1 gmsc
Pippen 1992 Finals... 20.8.. 8.3.. 7.7.. 56.1 ts.. 3.7 tov.. 111 ortg.. 18.1 gmsc
.

[AirBonner]

Imagine having a sidekick capable of game 6 Pippen :eek:

[3ball]

07 (LeBron's 4th season) he was leading his team to the Finals.

Drexler's 4th season, he finally won the full time starting SG job over Jim Paxson. :roll:
Drexler's advantage was actually bigger against 11' Lebron ... :confusedshrug:

[AirBonner]

Drexler's advantage was actually bigger against 11' Lebron ... :confusedshrug:
MJ

[bigkingsfan]

^^^ we don't have PER data for the Finals, and drtg is basically a team stat




No one paid attention to Pippen at 2nd option and he had a light load on both ends, yet Drexler still outplayed him while guarding MJ:

Drexler 1992 Finals... 24.8.. 7.8.. 5.3.. 52.2 ts.. 3.0 tov.. 113 ortg.. 18.4 gmsc
Pippen 1992 Finals... 20.8.. 8.3.. 7.7.. 56.1 ts.. 3.7 tov.. 111 ortg.. 18.1 gmsc


When old Drexler had the same easy load as 2nd option, his advantage was bigger:

Drexler 1995 Finals... 21.5.. 9.5.. 6.8.. 56.0 ts.. 1.5 tov.. 126 ortg.. 20.1 gmsc
Pippen 1992 Finals... 20.8.. 8.3.. 7.7.. 56.1 ts.. 3.7 tov.. 111 ortg.. 18.1 gmsc
.
Drexler was padding his stats, then going 8/24, while Pippen came up in the clutch 4th quarter.

[3ball]

Imagine having a sidekick capable of game 6 Pippen :eek:
Kyrie had better games in 2016 and 2017 Finals (40-pt games in do-or-die situations).. 28 ppg Finals average and legendary shot to win it

Wade was better in Game 4 of 2013 Finals (32 pts, 6 steals), and various games in 2012, and all of 2011

Ultimately, Wade and Kyrie's Finals stats destroy Pippen's..

[sdot_thadon]

What are those regular season numbers? Dont look right for even per 36 or 48.


Fixed

:roll: so familiar

[305Baller]

Sppace Jam

Bald

Ashy

[egokiller]

That sweet irony when Pippen outplayed Drexler in the finals and led them back in the game six with Ordan on the bench.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=168&v=ByNeavLHSRU

If anything that's a complement to MJ for having the ability to mold such a player to achieve that level of success. Meanwhile Lebron molded no one, and is actually criticized by the masses for making teammates worse because his play style forces them to be spot up shooters.

Another one :sleeping

[305Baller]

MJ is a mcdonald

uncle mcdonald

[bigkingsfan]

If anything that's a complement to MJ for having the ability to mold such a player to achieve that level of success. Meanwhile Lebron molded no one, and is actually criticized by the masses for making teammates worse because his play style forces them to be spot up shooters.

Another one :sleeping
Lebron molded Kyrie into a giant killer. Make you abandoned your account.

[3ball]

Lebron molded Kyrie into a giant killer. Make you abandoned your account.
only pippen gets credit for having 29 and 30-pt games

no one else has a thread about ordinary stuff like that - only pippen

pippen never had a notable SERIES - he's never had a legendary series where everyone was like, wow, pippen killed everyone.. players can only achieve that if they win FMVP like Dumars, Tony Parker, Worthy, Chauncey, Cedric Maxwell, and many other 2nd options.. or simply have a killer series where they rival or take over the 1st option duties - i.e. Worthy in the 87' and 88' playoffs, including 87' ECF (31 on 60%), or Kyrie in the 2016 Finals (27 ppg and clinching-shot), or Wade in the 11' Finals.

Pippen simply wasn't a great scorer and never commanded a double team or was even TASKED with taking a big shot in a big series.. the worst offensive 2nd option of any dynasty, and nearly any champion
.

[Smoke117]

It is understandable that people choose Pippen over Drexler because, appart from being a great player himself, we connect Pippen's career with success, while that doesn't happen as much with Drexler.

I think Drexler was the better first option player, but if I already had a superstar in my team, I might choose Pippen (of course, Pippen winning 6 rings has a big influence on me, if that didn't happen in real life, I guess I would choose Drexler everytime).

Pippen and Drexler are actually really similar players as far as their scoring goes. The difference is Drexler played in the high octane Blazer offense's while Pippen played in the slow triangle offense. Scottie's best attribute as a scorer was his open court game. (where he's top 10) He was basically a one man fast break. If you put him on those Blazer teams his scoring would look more similar to Drexlers. I've always said the two best overall players in that 92 finals were Jordan and Pippen. Drexler's 4ppg doesn't outweigh how much better a defensive player and overall player Pippen was than Drexler throughout the season.

OP is just tiresome with this nonsense at this point, though. The regular season can't come soon enough when most of his threads will just be deleted.

[3ball]

.
Thread Cliffs


It's pretty damn close

In the regular season and playoffs, 92' Drexler is nearly even with 07' and 11' Lebron - and in the Finals, Drexler destroys Lebron, and is therefore superior overall.

In the 92' Finals, Drexler's 25/8/5 on 41% against the 2 best perimeter defenders of all time destroys Lebron's worst-ever Finals performances in 07' and 11'.

Conclusion: 92' Drexler > 07' and 11' Lebron

[Smoke117]

^^^ we don't have PER data for the Finals, and drtg is basically a team stat

Uh...not really. It's not a stat you should use for players from opposing teams, but when just taken into the context of the same team it shows a lot. In David Robinson and Hakeems best defensive seasons they are about 10 lower than the team drating. That is all about their dominance. In the 92 finals the Bulls had an overall team drating of 103 with Pippen having a 102. Jordan had a 104 which makes him worse than the overall team.

[3ball]

Pippen and Drexler are actually really similar players as far as their scoring goes. The difference is Drexler played in the high octane Blazer offense's while Pippen played in the slow triangle offense. Scottie's best attribute as a scorer was his open court game. (where he's top 10) He was basically a one man fast break. If you put him on those Blazer teams his scoring would look more similar to Drexlers.
Drexler averaged 25/8/5 against the 2 best perimeter defenders of all-time, while defending the goat scorer.

That's obviously better than Lebron's Finals in 07' and 11', and obviously better than anything Pippen could ever do

You must not know what to look for when evaluating scoring ability if you think Pippen was on Drexler's level - Drexler had incredibly quick first step, easily quicker than Pippen, and he shot the ball better all over the court.. He had a somewhat unstoppable drive to his right (kind of like Lebron) and was a naturally big-time scorer from his high school and college days, with a variety of in-between shots/runners/floaters - i.e. scoring ability - that pippen didn't have.. Drexler was a much better finisher around the rim due to softer touch and better control on the release.

That's why Drexler had 2 Finals runs that > Lebron's 07' and 11' runs, while Pippen flames out in the 2nd Round like 19' Kyrie.. It's not even close.
.

[3ball]

Uh...not really. It's not a stat you should use for players from opposing teams, but when just taken into the context of the same team it shows a lot. In David Robinson and Hakeems best defensive seasons they are about 10 lower than the team drating. That is all about their dominance. In the 92 finals the Bulls had an overall team drating of 103 with Pippen having a 102. Jordan had a 104 which makes him worse than the overall team.
The point is that DRtg is a team stat because everyone on one team often has better DRtg than everyone on the other team

So even though Pippen has lower DRtg than Drexler in a given series, that stat itself doesn't mean much, because the entire Bulls team had lower DRtg.. i.e. Horace and cartwright had a 100 and 105 drtg, respectively, but 5-time all-defender Buck Williams (all-defense in 92') had a 108 drtg... on down the line - the whole roster is like that.

DRtg simply counts defensive rebounds, steals and blocks, and is influenced by team performance.. The defensive rebounds emphasis is why Bird has lower DRtg than Pippen for their careers (but in a given series, Pippen might have lower drtg if the bulls team is playing better D, i.e. MJ helping bring Pip's DRtg down)
.

[egokiller]

Lebron molded Kyrie into a giant killer. Make you abandoned your account.

Nope, Lebron never did anything for Kyrie outside of normal practice, unlike MJ who devoted his free time to molding Pippen. Try again.

[bigkingsfan]

while Pippen flames out in the 2nd Round like 19' Kyrie.. It's not even close.
.
Kyrie/Pippen > Ordan

Confirmed.

[3ball]

Effective FG% on all jumpshots for Curry, MJ, Lebron


.................eFG% All Jumpshots

Lebron 2004 (http://stats.nba.com/player/2544/shooting/?Season=2003-04&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 35.6%, 324/998
Lebron 2005 (http://stats.nba.com/player/2544/shooting/?Season=2004-05&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 39.9%, 400/1136
Lebron 2006 (http://stats.nba.com/player/2544/shooting/?Season=2005-06&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 41.7%, 423/1166
Lebron 2007 (http://stats.nba.com/player/2544/shooting/?Season=2006-07&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 39.5%, 372/1066
Lebron 2008 (http://stats.nba.com/player/2544/shooting/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 39.4%, 338/1001
Lebron 2009 (http://stats.nba.com/player/2544/shooting/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 42.2%, 366/1024
Lebron 2010 (http://stats.nba.com/player/2544/shooting/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 43.4%, 356/970
Lebron 2011 (http://stats.nba.com/player/2544/shooting/?Season=2010-11&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 45.4%, 393/968
Lebron 2012 (http://stats.nba.com/player/2544/shooting/?Season=2011-12&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 43.7%, 290/726
Lebron 2013 (http://stats.nba.com/player/2544/shooting/?Season=2012-13&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 49.0%, 333/784
Lebron 2014 (http://stats.nba.com/player/2544/shooting/?Season=2013-14&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 47.0%, 288/736
Lebron 2015 (http://stats.nba.com/player/2544/shooting/?Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 43.1%, 280/788
Lebron 2016 (http://stats.nba.com/player/2544/shooting/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 39.0%, 181/543
Lebron 2017 (http://stats.nba.com/player/2544/shooting/?Season=2016-17&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 44.8%, 226/643
Lebron 2018 (http://stats.nba.com/player/2544/shooting/?Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 47.2%, 304/802
Lebron 2019 (http://stats.nba.com/player/2544/shooting/?Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 47.2%, 210/563


Bryant 2000 (http://stats.nba.com/player/977/shooting/?Season=1999-00&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 38.5%, 328/851
Bryant 2001 (http://stats.nba.com/player/977/shooting/?Season=2000-01&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 43.0%, 460/1141
Bryant 2002 (http://stats.nba.com/player/977/shooting/?Season=2001-02&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 41.8%, 478/1184
Bryant 2003 (http://stats.nba.com/player/977/shooting/?Season=2002-03&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 44.1%, 597/1494
Bryant 2004 (http://stats.nba.com/player/977/shooting/?Season=2003-04&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 40.3%, 282/787
Bryant 2005 (http://stats.nba.com/player/977/shooting/?Season=2004-05&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 43.5%, 346/947
Bryant 2006 (http://stats.nba.com/player/977/shooting/?Season=2005-06&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 46.5%, 709/1724
Bryant 2007 (http://stats.nba.com/player/977/shooting/?Season=2006-07&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 46.7%, 556/1358
Bryant 2008 (http://stats.nba.com/player/977/shooting/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 44.6%, 468/1217
Bryant 2009 (http://stats.nba.com/player/977/shooting/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 45.0%, 519/1285


Jordan 1997 (http://stats.nba.com/player/893/shooting/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 51.2%, 727/1528
Jordan 1998 (http://stats.nba.com/player/893/shooting/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 42.4%, 600/1449


Currry 2015 (http://stats.nba.com/player/201939/shooting/?Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 56.0%, 424/1029
Currry 2016 (http://stats.nba.com/player/201939/shooting/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 62.9%, 389/847




.................eFG% All Jumpshots

Lebron 2006 (http://stats.nba.com/player/2544/shooting/?Season=2005-06&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 41.7%, 423/1166 <----- lebron's highest VOLUME year
Lebron 2013 (http://stats.nba.com/player/2544/shooting/?Season=2012-13&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 49.0%, 333/784 <----- lebron's highest EFFICIENCY year

Jordan 1997 (http://stats.nba.com/player/893/shooting/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 51.2%, 727/1528 <----- nearly twice the volume with better efficiency than lebron's best


Lebron lacks the jumpshot that old MJ used to maintain MVP status at 35 years old, and therefore lacks the necessary skills to make a "comeback" next year as the best player

When MJ was 34, he made 727 jumpshots at a 52% efg - that's twice the volume of lebron or curry's typical season, at better efficiency than lebron's best season (see stats in previous post above)

So goat jumpshooting - that's how MJ remained the best player at 35 (MVP/scoring champ/FMVP)

And it should be noted that MJ's goat volume is a reflection of the of his goat jumpshooting skill (fadeaway).. only MJ and Kobe are capable of that VOLUME, and at better efficiency than Lebron's best

[3ball]

Kyrie/Pippen > Ordan

Confirmed.
Except MJ made more jumpshots than anyone in recorded history (727 in 1997) at an effective FG% that was better than Lebron's career best - see the stats in the previous post above.

MJ was infact the goat jumpshooter for making 250 more jumpshots than Lebron and Curry's highest volume year, at an efficiency better than Lebron's career best.

Ultimately, Lebron lacks the jumpshooting skill that old MJ used to maintain MVP status at 35 years old, and therefore lacks the necessary skills to make a "comeback" in 2020 from his western conference exposure/lottery debacle of 2019.

And it should be noted that MJ's goat volume is a reflection of the of his goat jumpshooting skill (fadeaway).. When people say "fadeaway" they mean "jumpshot".. MJ's fadeaway was goat = his jumper was goat.. only MJ and Kobe are capable of that VOLUME, and at better efficiency than Lebron's best..

[Smoke117]

The point is that DRtg is a team stat because everyone on one team often has better DRtg than everyone on the other team

So even though Pippen has lower DRtg than Drexler in a given series, that stat itself doesn't mean much, because the entire Bulls team had lower DRtg.. i.e. Horace and cartwright had a 100 and 105 drtg, respectively, but 5-time all-defender Buck Williams (all-defense in 92') had a 108 drtg... on down the line - the whole roster is like that.

DRtg simply counts defensive rebounds, steals and blocks, and is influenced by team performance.. The defensive rebounds emphasis is why Bird has lower DRtg than Pippen for their careers (but in a given series, Pippen might have lower drtg if the bulls team is playing better D, i.e. MJ helping bring Pip's DRtg down)
.

Pretty sure it's common sense that Pippen was a much, much better defensive player than Drexler. Only you are the one who has to say nonsense like this to try and prop up Jordan and shit on everyone he played with. Scottie Pippen is considered the greatest perimeter defensive player of all time. Drexler isn't even in a discussion for one of the top 30.

[bigkingsfan]

Except MJ made more jumpshots than anyone in recorded history (727 in 1997) at an effective FG% that was better than Lebron's career best - see the stats in the previous post above.

MJ was infact the goat jumpshooter for making 250 more jumpshots than Lebron and Curry's highest volume year, at an efficiency better than Lebron's career best.

Ultimately, Lebron lacks the jumpshooting skill that old MJ used to maintain MVP status at 35 years old, and therefore lacks the necessary skills to make a "comeback" in 2020 from his western conference exposure/lottery debacle of 2019.

And it should be noted that MJ's goat volume is a reflection of the of his goat jumpshooting skill (fadeaway).. When people say "fadeaway" they mean "jumpshot".. MJ's fadeaway was goat = his jumper was goat.. only MJ and Kobe are capable of that VOLUME, and at better efficiency than Lebron's best..
How much does it hurt you that Pippen made it to the 2nd round while Mikey was 1-9?

[LostCause]

92 was Drexlers peak and while you could argue he was as good as or better than LeBron in 07, LeBron was certainly better than him in 09 which obviously comes before 2011. So 11 was largely due to LeBron underperforming or just ironing out kinks with his new team, he wasn't a worse player than he was in 09. So by extension even if Drexler trumps him or is comparable, LeBron was actually a better player

Similar to how 91 can be considered a "down year" for Drexler

[3ball]

Pretty sure it's common sense that Pippen was a much, much better defensive player than Drexler.


That's your opinion - I'm just pointing out that you can't use DRtg to prove it





Pretty sure it's common sense that Pippen was a much, much better defensive player than Drexler.


So how did Portland have a higher-rated defense than the Bulls during the first 3-peat if Drexler wasn't holding his own as a perimeter defender vs. Pippen and Jordan?.. Neither team had a shot-blocking center and both had good defenders at the 4.

And Drexler wasn't far off from Pippen even if we look at the raw stats:

Career

Pippen. - 2.0 spg.. 0.8 bpg.. 101 drtg.. 2.4 dpbm
Drexler - 2.0 spg.. 0.7 bpg.. 105 drtg.. 1.5 dbpm


Drexler was an underrated defender that would've equaled Pippen if he played alongside MJ and the Bulls' system... And get a good look at Drexler's physique here (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y7bMdTTu0dg) in the Jordan vs. Drexler FT line dunk comparison... He was a goat athlete - no elite SG's in today's game are anywhere near this athleticism - it was NOT easy to score on him





Drexler isn't even in a discussion for one of the top 30.


Drexler is extremely underrated - look how his 2 Finals runs > Lebron's 07' and 11' runs... :confusedshrug:.. you don't hear about that on the news.
.

[egokiller]

[Smoke117]

That's your opinion

No...that's the opinion of anyone who watched them and knows anything about basketball and who doesn't have an agenda like you do.

[3ball]

92 was Drexlers peak and while you could argue he was as good as or better than LeBron in 07, LeBron was certainly better than him in 09 which obviously comes before 2011. So 11 was largely due to LeBron underperforming or just ironing out kinks with his new team, he wasn't a worse player than he was in 09. So by extension even if Drexler trumps him or is comparable, LeBron was actually a better player

Similar to how 91 can be considered a "down year" for Drexler
It was him learning he had real weaknesses in his game, such as no post game, while his inability to play great with Wade underscored his inability to play off teammates in general.

And even though Lebron's stats were great in 2009 and 2010, they were great the same way Iverson's peak stats were better than say, Mark Price's.. Iverson was more talented but Price was BETTER because he could win in spots that Iverson couldn't, just like anyone would've won in Lebron's place in 2011..

We know that Drexler wouldn't have lost in 2011, given his 25/8/5 performance in 1992 against the 2 best perimeter defenders of all time and goat dynasty of the modern era.

[3ball]

No...that's the opinion of anyone who watched them and knows anything about basketball and who doesn't have an agenda like you do.
Pippen wasn't better than peak Artest on either end, or Payton - so MJ won 6 rings with a sidekick like peak Artest or Payton - that's goat and people underestimate just how much better that is than anything Lebron has ever done.

Only on internet forums and social media is Pippen viewed as having ridiculously-impactful defense that automatically makes up for any offense, no matter how bad..

Players, coaches and executives view Pippen as an all-time great defender, but no better than Payton, Sidney Moncrief, MJ, Kawhi, and others - this level of defender isn't worlds better than Drexler, nor do they give a team an unbeatable defense - the Bulls only had the 7th best defense during the 1st three-peat (Drexler the 3rd-best).. 7th best simply doesn't make up for horrific offense, which Pippen frequently exhibited, (and which MJ offset with goat scoring).

So while Pippen played great defense, it shouldn't be viewed as giving MJ more help than just a good team defense, which many teams have.. Otoh, his offense only gave the Bulls the #14 offense in 1994, after having a goat offense during the 1st three-peat.. You guys are simply overrating Pippen, and it's obvious because you only use the 'defense' argument with pippen
.

[3ball]

Btw, no one was able to answer: how did Portland have a higher-rated defense than the Bulls during the first 3-peat if Drexler wasn't holding his own as a perimeter defender vs. Pippen and Jordan?.. Neither team had a shot-blocking center and both had good defenders at the 4.

Drexler was an underrated defender that would've equaled Pippen if he played alongside MJ and the Bulls' system... And get a good look at Drexler's physique here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7bMdTTu0dg) in the Jordan vs. Drexler FT dunk comparison... He was a goat athlete - no elite SG's in today's game are anywhere near this athleticism - it was NOT easy to score on him

Previous eras had MJ/Drexler at SG... Today's game counters with Harden... lol.. the evolution of athletes doh