If Kawhi beats LeBron AGAIN this year and wins his 3rd Championship..

[eliteballer]

What's the argument for LeBron over Leonard?

Kawhi would have TWO head to head series wins, as many total rings, and a series win against the Warriors as well... while winning without two superstars to help..

[305Baller]

at least LeBaldo has more roids in his veinssssss

THAT A WINNNN

[keep-itreal]

Kawhi will ascend to the top tiers, top 10 all time, #2 best small forward all time behind Lebron.

Kawhi won't reach Lebron status because Kawhi lacks regular season MVPs which Lebron has 4 of them

[305Baller]

and the better hairline


more musclesss too

not a fatty like JAMES JOHNSONNNN

[superduper]

If Kawhi beats Bran this year he officially takes Bran's top 10 spot on the GOAT list.

Unfortunately for both of those clowns though they're leading their teams straight to the lottery :rockon:

[eliteballer]

at least LeBaldo has more roids in his veinssssss

THAT A WINNNN

LeROID James

https://static.vibe.com/files/photo_gallery_images/VIBE-Kawhi-Leonard-Cover-compressed.jpg

[Meticode]

Kawhi will ascend to the top tiers, top 10 all time, #2 best small forward all time behind Lebron.

Kawhi won't reach Lebron status because Kawhi lacks regular season MVPs which Lebron has 4 of them
I agree, but he wouldn't be ahead of Bird to me yet. He has to show some consistency in terms of staying healthy to put up numbers.

[Bronbron23]

What's the argument for LeBron over Leonard?

Kawhi would have TWO head to head series wins, as many total rings, and a series win against the Warriors as well... while winning without two superstars to help..
Beating Bron at this stage of his career dosnt say much to be honest and Kawhi dosnt have enough on his resume to be placed ahead of James on the all time list. He needs a couple of mvp's and scoring titles or something. Either that or he needs to win 1 or 2 more chips than bron.

[StrongLurk]

If Leonard wins a 3rd finals MVP then he will officially become the hardest player to rank all time.

To me, his first finals MVP was obviously weak. But enough Lebron haters will say "he beat Lebron dur". His second finals MVP was much better...except he would have never won if KD and Klay were healthy for the entire 2019 finals.

He also will only have had 4 elite seasons under his belt as well...but he also has 2 DPOY.

Idk, he will have some nice hardware over a very short time...while the rest of his career wasn't even all star level.

[Kiddlovesnets]

If he wins again he will surpass Kobe for sure, and make his way to top 12. Whether he can surpass Lebron is another thing, it may happen and we will see.

[Mr Feeny]

If Leonard wins a 3rd finals MVP then he will officially become the hardest player to rank all time.

To me, his first finals MVP was obviously weak. But enough Lebron haters will say "he beat Lebron dur". His second finals MVP was much better...except he would have never won if KD and Klay were healthy for the entire 2019 finals.

He also will only have had 4 elite seasons under his belt as well...but he also has 2 DPOY.

Idk, he will have some nice hardware over a very short time...while the rest of his career wasn't even all star level.

They outplayed and were beating GS in the games that Klay played so that doesnt make a difference.

Anything else (Durant) iis not only a hypothetical but irrelevant. Beating Curry-Klay-Draymond is a huge feat in itself. We aren't about to qualify a successful run by wondering whether a 4th superstar in Durant would have meant that the Raps would not have won.

[ArbitraryWater]

They outplayed and were beating GS in the games that Klay played so that doesnt make a difference.

Anything else (Durant) iis not only a hypothetical but irrelevant. Beating Curry-Klay-Draymond is a huge feat in itself. We aren't about to qualify a successful run by wondering whether a 4th superstar in Durant would have meant that the Raps would not have won.

Leonard was so bad in the 4th quarters though and second fiddle in the championship close-out as well, so the finals wasnt exactly something that propels him much all time. Maybe top 35?

[3ball]

Kawhi will ascend to the top tiers, top 10 all time, #2 best small forward all time behind Lebron.

Kawhi won't reach Lebron status because Kawhi lacks regular season MVPs which Lebron has 4 of them
What the OP said is better than 4 regular season MVP's - two head-to-head series wins, equal rings, and a series win against the Warriors without two superstar teammates - that's better than 2 Nash accomplishments (2 MVP's)

Kawhi clearly surpasses lebron with a 3rd ring and 2nd head-to-head win, and 2nd ring without 2 star teammates

[AlternativeAcc.]

Nope

ZERO MVPs

Never been considered the best

Got carried to rings in San Antonio averaging 15ppg.

Kawhi is just another Kobe, wont ever sniff the top 10 even in the best case scenario.

[3ball]

Nope

ZERO MVPs

Never been considered the best

Got carried to rings in San Antonio averaging 15ppg.

Kawhi is just another Kobe, wont ever sniff the top 10 even in the best case scenario.
It's funny how every team that kawhi is on is better than the team lebron is the on

That's due to kawhi's on-ball/off-ball, good-shooting skillset that fits with all player types and gives his team a higher brand and ceiling... Contrast with Lebron's westbrook-level, on-ball skillset that only fits with shooters, thus suppressing the team's brand and ceiling

There's a reason why the versatile on-ball/off-ball players and good shooters like Kawhi, MJ, Durant, Kobe, Bird, Dirk, and Curry win a lot more than ball-dominators Westbrook, Lebron and Harden.. it's because they're better... :hammerhead:... Higher-level skillsets than purely on-ball westbrooking
.

[LAmbruh]

It's tough being a Kobe stan, they watched their idol get surpassed by Lebron before he even had Finals hardware

As a result they've acted like starving ticks 10+ years to see Lebron get surpassed. Using Curry as a host, using Durant as a host, now using Kawhi as a host. Simple elementary formula, coat tailing the best player on the best team.

The irony of it all is: they still can't comprehend what made Lebron surpass Kobe in the first place.


[SPOILER] Being a better basketball player

[StrongLurk]

They outplayed and were beating GS in the games that Klay played so that doesnt make a difference.

Anything else (Durant) iis not only a hypothetical but irrelevant. Beating Curry-Klay-Draymond is a huge feat in itself. We aren't about to qualify a successful run by wondering whether a 4th superstar in Durant would have meant that the Raps would not have won.

I'm not dissing Kawhi's play in the finals, he was very good.

I'm just saying he would not have 2 FMVPS if Durant were healthy. It's also not a knock to lose against the Warriors with Durant.

Durant would be the one with 3 FMVPS and Kawhi would have 1. No one could ever convince me otherwise.

You can't say Durant (best player in the world) missing the finals is irrelevant.

[3ball]

I'm not dissing Kawhi's play in the finals, he was very good.

I'm just saying he would not have 2 FMVPS if Durant were healthy. It's also not a knock to lose against the Warriors with Durant.

Durant would be the one with 3 FMVPS and Kawhi would have 1. No one could ever convince me otherwise.


Most people agree with you that Durant would have his 3rd Finals MVP if he was healthy - that isn't news

But Kawhi still achieved Lebron's 2016 accomplishment by beating the Curry/Klay/Dray warriors..

and that was without Dray getting suspended, and with curry being 100% (30 ppg in 19' versus only 22 in 16')... And plus Durant actually played a quarter in Willis Reed fashion that won Game 5 - it would've been Raps in 5 if Durant doesn't play that game



I'm not dissing Kawhi's play in the finals, he was very good.

I'm just saying he would not have 2 FMVPS if Durant were healthy. It's also not a knock to lose against the Warriors with Durant.


It is if you give up 36 on 56% to him and have a poor brand of ball that underuses your 26 ppg 3rd option (underachieving super-team)

[Real Men Wear Green]

I can understand a Kobe fan not thinking MVPs matter much for ATG rankings but they do. Between the MVPs and the stats there's no argument for Leonard over James career vs. career. He is a better player bow though until/unless James decides to play defense again.

[3ball]

I can understand a Kobe fan not thinking MVPs matter much for ATG rankings but they do. Between the MVPs and the stats there's no argument for Leonard over James career vs. career. He is a better player bow though until/unless James decides to play defense again.
It isn't just defense..

Kawhi's offense > Lebron's the same way Mark Price's > Iverson's

Lebron has always needed more help than kawhi because his stats come at the expense of teammates

Kawhi/Wade/Bosh would never lose.... Kawhi/Lowry beat the warriors, so what would Kawhi/Kyrie do?... Lebron simply underachieved with all those guys

[Real Men Wear Green]

It isn't just defense..

Kawhi's offense > Lebron's the same way Mark Price's > Iverson's

Lebron has always needed more help than kawhi because his stats come at the expense of teammates

Kawhi/Wade/Bosh would never lose.... Kawhi/Lowry beat the warriors, so what would Kawhi/Kyrie do?... Lebron simply underachieved with all those guys
I have no interest in your idiocy, thanks but no thanks.

[3ball]

I have no interest in your idiocy, thanks but no thanks.
I get it - you're a fan and are allowed to believe whatever you want about this professional entertainment

But you're wrong and can't support your position or refute mine.. those are the facts... You prefer the groupthink that's usually wrong and that's fine...

Lebron's westbrooking brand is suboptimal and the only reason he isn't ringless like all the other skill-less ball-dominators is because he team-hopped.. period... Now carry on

Oh, and despite playing in the highest ORtg era ever, and despite playing with 2 elite scorers and elite shooting, lebron's offenses peaked at #26 and #46 all-time... Meanwhile, MJ has goat team ORtg's with much less offensive help... #groupthink

[Real Men Wear Green]

I get it - you're a fan and are allowed to believe whatever you want about this professional entertainment

But you're wrong and can't support your position or refute mine.. those are the facts... You prefer the groupthink that's usually wrong and that's fine...

Lebron's westbrooking brand is suboptimal and the only reason he isn't ringless like all the other skill-less ball-dominators is because he team-hopped.. period... Now carry on

Oh, and despite playing in the highest ORtg era ever, and despite playing with 2 elite scorers and elite shooting, lebron's offenses peaked at #26 and #46 all-time... Meanwhile, MJ has goat team ORtg's with much less offensive help... #groupthinkYou're dumb enough to think an argument can't be made for the greatness of a guy that is 4th all time in scoring and always a triple-double threat. You're a fanatical moron on a pointless mission whose primary tactic is to reply ad nauseam with boredom. Not interested.

[Turbo Slayer]

Kawhi beat an injured Warriors without KD. Yikes. Asterisk ring, dog. :banana:

[Turbo Slayer]

You're dumb enough to think an argument can't be made for the greatness of a guy that is 4th all time in scoring and always a triple-double threat. You're a fanatical moron on a pointless mission whose primary tactic is to reply ad nauseam with boredom. Not interested.

:lol

[sdot_thadon]

You're dumb enough to think an argument can't be made for the greatness of a guy that is 4th all time in scoring and always a triple-double threat. You're a fanatical moron on a pointless mission whose primary tactic is to reply ad nauseam with boredom. Not interested.
:applause:

[3ball]

You're dumb enough to think an argument can't be made for the greatness of a guy that is 4th all time in scoring and always a triple-double threat. You're a fanatical moron on a pointless mission whose primary tactic is to reply ad nauseam with boredom. Not interested.
Karl Malone is 2nd all-time in scoring and always a 20/10 threat

So better than Lebron by your logic

But zero rings because no team-hopping and he faced MJ instead of Dirk or Duncan.

Lebron's team-hopping camouflaged an otherwise normally-losing cp3-westbrooking style

[Turbo Slayer]

Karl Malone is 2nd all-time in scoring and always a 20/10 threat

So better than Lebron by your logic

But zero rings because no team-hopping and he faced MJ instead of Dirk or Duncan.

Lebron's team-hopping camouflaged an otherwise normally-losing cp3-westbrooking style

:coleman: Malone better than Lebron??? you smoking something??? :oldlol:

[bigkingsfan]

But zero rings because no team-hopping
:roll:

[Turbo Slayer]

But zero rings because no team-hopping and he faced MJ instead of Dirk or Duncan.

Team-hopping? Last time I recall Malone was with Kobe Bryant. STACKED. :biggums:

[sdot_thadon]

But zero rings because no team-hopping and he faced MJ instead of Dirk or Duncan.
Probably because in 1988 you were able to sign a 10 year extension on contracts..........

[ILLsmak]

Kawhi will ascend to the top tiers, top 10 all time, #2 best small forward all time behind Lebron.

Kawhi won't reach Lebron status because Kawhi lacks regular season MVPs which Lebron has 4 of them

It just goes to show you how much intangible shit is required to be top 10. Even with all he's done, if he does this... he's not top 10 either. He may never be top ten. But he's done some amazing shit. Who are we kicking out? It's just like KD altho I think KD is better than Kawhi, but KD had a situation where he could stack FMVPs and rings. Still he would have only been borderline top 10 imo.

Kawhi is not better than Kobe, he's not better than Hakeem. You can do whatever fantasy simulation you want to, but when it comes down to it, he's just not. He might end up with a really crazy resume though.

-Smak

[And1AllDay]

Bird beat up Jordan 6 times in the playoffs

so now what

byeeeeeeeeeeee

[ILLsmak]

Bird beat up Jordan 6 times in the playoffs

so now what

byeeeeeeeeeeee

another reason it's a literal joke to say Kawhi can become the 2nd best SF of all time.

-Smak

[And1AllDay]

another reason it's a literal joke to say Kawhi can become the 2nd best SF of all time.

-Smak

word

mike is winless vs bird in post season 0-6

[Turbo Slayer]

word

mike is winless vs bird in post season 0-6

YES. They can't answer with PRIDE. The only time he had to face REAL competition. Ordan

#4ever :lol

[brutalBBQ]

Bird beat up Jordan 6 times in the playoffs

so now what

byeeeeeeeeeeee

So now what, that was homework for Jordan, Bird only won three rings and we all know how many Jordan won.

I mean it was a brilliant and intelligent argument put forth, with excellent points and evidence that backed it up, I wouldn't expect anything less from a LeBron fan.

Can literally picture your small fat fingers shaking at the keyboard everytime you post your well thought out reply's, you f&*king POS. :roll:

[And1AllDay]

So now what, that was homework for Jordan, Bird only won three rings and we all know how many Jordan won.

I mean it was a brilliant and intelligent argument put forth, with excellent points and evidence that backed it up, I wouldn't expect anything less from a LeBron fan.

Can literally picture your small fat fingers shaking at the keyboard everytime you post your well thought out reply's, you f&*king POS. :roll:


are you okay how is your mother

[AussieSteve]

What's the argument for LeBron over Leonard?


Kawhi would have TWO head to head series wins, as many total rings, and a series win against the Warriors as well... while winning without two superstars to help..


The argument would be that lebron was a better player, and had a greater career.

Higher peak.
Longer prime.
Better at most facets of the game.
Better leader
Etc.
Etc.

[3ball]

The argument would be that lebron was a better player, and had a greater career.

Higher peak.
Longer prime.
Better at most facets of the game.
Better leader
Etc.
Etc.
Kawhi is a better shooter, defender, post player, and has superior scoring versatility to fit with all player types

And lebron is not a leader, which is why he can't develop teams and must team-hop for ready-made vets that don't even NEED leadership - they're already established stars!

But Lebron fans just say anything if it sounds good .. " hurrr.. Lebron good leader.. hurrrr".. even though it's Wade that taught him everything and Kyrie taking over in the critical moments... But carry on.. "hurrrr...

[ILLsmak]

Kawhi is a better shooter, defender, post player, and has superior scoring versatility to fit with all player types

And lebron is not a leader, which is why he can't develop teams and must team-hop for ready-made vets that don't even NEED leadership - they're already established stars!

But Lebron fans just say anything if it sounds good .. " hurrr.. Lebron good leader.. hurrrr".. even though it's Wade that taught him everything and Kyrie taking over in the critical moments... But carry on.. "hurrrr...

even if all that's true, and I dunno if scoring versatility matters that much, he's still not a transcendent player like LeBron is. Bron is on another tier. It doesn't mean that for a series Leonard couldn't outplay Bron, but if we're talking who is the better basketball player, it's Bron. It's one of those 'and it's not even close' situations. We're talking about like top 10 v top 30ish level of difference, assuming we're getting peak kawhi.

Kawhi is a really good teammate, though, so he gets a little bonus for that. He can sit back and let his team do their own thing, but overall prime Bron is gonna add more wins. A lot more likely.

It weakens your high lvl trolling in MJ debates if you make unsound arguments about other players haha.

-Smak

[34-24 Footwork]

always a triple-double threat

This is some true video game shit. Who cares about someone being a "triple-double threat" when he can't even make the playoffs out West? :lol

[GimmeThat]

What incentives exist where players that aren't first pick and wins ROY that makes enough sense

[brutalBBQ]

are you okay how is your mother
Please stop projecting your inability to satisfy women sexually via this forum, my mother is fine, whilst your milf fetish is out of control, bro .

[Lebron23]

What's the argument for LeBron over Leonard?

Kawhi would have TWO head to head series wins, as many total rings, and a series win against the Warriors as well... while winning without two superstars to help..

Shut the F*ck up you retard. Kawhi without some elite coaching is nothing, but a 2nd round fodder. And he only averaged 14 ppg in his first finals mvp those are role players finals mvp just like iguodala in 2016 and. Cedric maxwell in 1981

[PP34Deuce]

Lebron has to be relieved because the narrative that Kawhi wanted to set was winning 3 titles for three differen franchises as the alpha man. Lebron had the same narrative. Kawhi is out.

[And1AllDay]

It's funny how every team that kawhi is on is better than the team lebron is the on

That's due to kawhi's on-ball/off-ball, good-shooting skillset that fits with all player types and gives his team a higher brand and ceiling... Contrast with Lebron's westbrook-level, on-ball skillset that only fits with shooters, thus suppressing the team's brand and ceiling

There's a reason why the versatile on-ball/off-ball players and good shooters like Kawhi, MJ, Durant, Kobe, Bird, Dirk, and Curry win a lot more than ball-dominators Westbrook, Lebron and Harden.. it's because they're better... :hammerhead:... Higher-level skillsets than purely on-ball westbrooking
.

ball dominator = Jokic
Owns
Non ball dominator = Kawhi

Get raked :oldlol:

[Whoah10115]

ball dominator = Jokic
Owns
Non ball dominator = Kawhi

Get raked :oldlol:

3ball says some dumb things, but saying Jokic is a ball dominator is also pretty dumb.