Kawhi won with two Pippens

[AirBonner]

Pascal, Lowry. Both put up numbers and defense equal to Pippen

[3ball]

I agree.

But what is 2 pippen's?... A couple Lamar Odom's that hustle more? a couple Iggy's?.. a couple peak Jeff Green's?... a couple Perry Jones if he teamed up with Jordan?

A couple 16-point good defenders isn't all-world.. it's just a solid couple of players

[SouBeachTalents]

I agree.

But what is 2 pippen's?... A couple Lamar Odom's that hustle more? a couple Iggy's?.. a couple peak Jeff Green's?... a couple Perry Jones if he teamed up with Jordan?

A couple 16-point good defenders isn't all-world.. it's just a solid couple of players
Sounds like it'd be two guys selected to the 50 greatest players list after just 9 seasons in the league

[AirBonner]

I agree.

But what is 2 pippen's?... A couple Lamar Odom's that hustle more? a couple Iggy's?.. a couple peak Jeff Green's?... a couple Perry Jones if he teamed up with Jordan?

A couple 16-point good defenders isn't all-world.. it's just a solid couple of players
:roll: what

[Real Men Wear Green]

This topic is brain poison.

[Akeem34TheDream]

This topic is brain poison.
Agreed LMAO. Sometimes i find this kinda shit funny but its flat out stupid most of the times.

[3ball]

:roll: what’s crazy is both Lowry and Pascal had one game each similar to game 6 Pippen. Talk about stacked :eek:
Tons of guys have great single games, but a truly good player has a memorable/legendary SERIES that we all remember

For example...

We all remember Dumars' FMVP in 1989 or Parker's in 07'... We all remember Worthy's 88' FMVP or his 31 on 60% to win the 87' WCF.... Or Kyrie's legendary shot and 27 ppg in the 16' Finals... Or Wade's wasted 27 ppg effort in 2011...

But nothing for guys like Pippen, Siakam, or Lowry because they're infact a cut below the aforementioned guys, and only have one-off great games... They're infact "system" players and nothing without the system.. they can never dominate or "take over" for sustained periods like the aforementioned guys

[Bronbron23]

Y'all are crazy with this shit. Lowery and Pascal are nowhere near pip. Pascal has the potential yeah but he still has a way to go.

[LAmbruh]

Bulls after MJ - 55 wins


Raps before Kawhi - 59 wins



damn, well said OP :confusedshrug:

[3ball]

Y'all are crazy with this shit. Lowery and Pascal are nowhere near pip. Pascal has the potential yeah but he still has a way to go.
Tons of guys average 16 and 5 apg like Pippen

and let their defensive assignment gets theirs in every series they ever played like Pippen did

and play defense well enough to give their team the #7 defense like Pippen


Plenty of guys have these capabilities, and Lowry/Siakam fit this bill easily

It's just the rings that inflate Pip... If kawhi had stayed and siakam 3-peated, siakam would be HOF and probably make a bunch of all-defensive teams.. but kawhi left so siakam's career accolades will be fraction of what they would've been

[Bronbron23]

Tons of guys average 16 and 5 apg like Pippen

and let their defensive assignment gets theirs in every series they ever played like Pippen did

and play defense well enough to give their team the #7 defense like Pippen


Plenty of guys have these capabilities, and Lowry/Siakam fit this bill easily

It's just the rings that inflate Pip... If kawhi had stayed and siakam 3-peated, siakam would be HOF and probably make a bunch of all-defensive teams.. but kawhi left so siakam's career accolades will be fraction of what they would've been
We weren't talking about tons of guys we were talking about Pascal and Lowery. Offensively yes there both close. Defensively it's not even a contest. Pascal dosnt even have 1 block and steal a game. Pip is way better than Lowery. He shouldn't even be in this discussion. Pascal may become better than pip but he's not there yet.

[Hey Yo]

I agree.

But what is 2 pippen's?... A couple Lamar Odom's that hustle more? a couple Iggy's?.. a couple peak Jeff Green's?... a couple Perry Jones if he teamed up with Jordan?

A couple 16-point good defenders isn't all-world.. it's just a solid couple of players
I guess that means you think LeBron went the entire postseason without a superteam. Just a couple of solid players in Wade and Bosh to win the title.

add that to your list:

1 Mo Williams was not an All-star
2.LeBron won 2013 title w/o a superteam, just a couple solid players.

[3ball]

We weren't talking about tons of guys we were talking about Pascal and Lowery. Offensively yes there both close. Defensively it's not even a contest. Pascal dosnt even have 1 block and steal a game. Pip is way better than Lowery. He shouldn't even be in this discussion. Pascal may become better than pip but he's not there yet.
Based on the standards of all other player comparisons, defense shouldn't enter the equation

It's only used with Pippen to explain how MJ won 6 rings with such a weak cast

MJ's goat offense isn't given credit, even though it was the Bulls' offense that was #1 all-time, while their defense was only #7 in the league - they actually won with offense much more than defense, but haters are revising history

Ultimately, MJ's ability to fit goat scoring levels into an equal-opportunity system that allowed everyone else to thrive (he adjusted his game to teammates and still scored goat amounts) isn't given credit for the rings... Instead of MJ's goat stats, leadership and clutch getting the credit, it's 7 ppg role players like Kerr and 35% shooters like Pippen that get the credit... :biggums:

[Bronbron23]

Based on the standards of all other player comparisons, defense shouldn't enter the equation

It's only used with Pippen to explain how MJ won 6 rings with such a weak cast

MJ's goat offense isn't given credit, even though it was the Bulls' offense that was #1 all-time, while their defense was only #7 in the league - they actually won with offense much more than defense, but haters are revising history

Ultimately, MJ's ability to fit goat scoring levels into an equal-opportunity system that allowed everyone else to thrive (he adjusted his game to teammates and still scored goat amounts) isn't given credit for the rings... Instead of MJ's goat stats, leadership and clutch getting the credit, it's 7 ppg role players like Kerr and 35% shooters like Pippen that get the credit... :biggums:

I'm not sure about the standards your talking about but I've always calculated defence into the equation. There are are few certain players who's defence was every bit as influential on a game as great offence. Ben Wallace, Russell, rodman and pip are all examples of this. Pascal as of yet is not

[3ball]

I guess that means you think LeBron went the entire postseason without a superteam. Just a couple of solid players in Wade and Bosh to win the title.


16 ppg is pippen's career average

Wade, Kyrie, Worthy, Drexler, Bosh, Love - basically everyone - is higher than that





1 Mo Williams was not an All-star


Who cares - a star sidekick or strong cast cast wasn't needed to make the Finals at that time - Dwight made it without a star or good cast that year, and lebron himself made it in 07', while AI and Kidd made it with weak casts in 01' and 03'

And the stats show that 09' Mo > 19' Middleton, but Lebron gets a pass, while Giannis was expected to win... 09' Mo was also > 89' Pippen, yet Lebron lost to the #4 SRS team that had 2 all-stars (dwight/rashard), while MJ beat the #1 SRS that had 3 perennial all-stars + 20/5/5 Ron Harper.





2.LeBron won 2013 title w/o a superteam, just a couple solid players.


Wade averaged 20 on 48% in the 13' Finals,, so no

And lebron won that series despite:

- 25 ppg on 52.9 ts
- net negative for series (Heat lost when Lebron played/was on floor)
- teammate saving him
- his broke jumper getting successfully exploited - 16 on 39% thru 3 games; 23 on 43 thru 6

[SouBeachTalents]

16 ppg is pippen's career average

Wade, Kyrie, Worthy, Drexler, Bosh, Love - basically everyone - is higher than that



Who cares - a star sidekick or strong cast cast wasn't needed to make the Finals at that time - Dwight made it without a star or good cast that year, and lebron himself made it in 07', while AI and Kidd made it with weak casts in 01' and 03'

And the stats show that 09' Mo > 19' Middleton, but Lebron gets a pass, while Giannis was expected to win... 09' Mo was also > 89' Pippen, yet Lebron lost to the #4 SRS team that had 2 all-stars (dwight/rashard), while MJ beat the #1 SRS that had 3 perennial all-stars + 20/5/5 Ron Harper.



Wade averaged 20 on 48% in the 13' Finals,, so no

And lebron won that series despite:

- 25 ppg on 52.9 ts
- net negative for series (Heat lost when Lebron played/was on floor)
- teammate saving him
- his broke jumper getting successfully exploited - 16 on 39% thru 3 games; 23 on 43 thru 6
LeBron's 2013 Finals > Jordan in '96

[3ball]

LeBron's 2013 Finals > Jordan in '96
Thru 3 games

Jordan - 31 on 46%... 3-0 lead, series wrapped up
Lebron - 16 on 39%... 2-1 deficit and will need teammate to save him


So no

[SouBeachTalents]

Thru 3 games

Jordan 1996 Finals - 31 on 46%... 3-0 lead, series wrapped up
Lebron 2013 Finals - 16 on 39%... 2-1 deficit and will need teammate to save him


So no
Through the entire series

LeBron: 25/11/7 on 53%TS, led the team in points/assists/rebounds/steals
Jordan: 27/5/4 on 54%TS, led the team in points

So yes

[3ball]

Through the entire series

LeBron: 25/11/7 on 53%TS, led the team in points/assists/rebounds/steals
Jordan: 27/5/4 on 54%TS, led the team in points

So yes
Lebron's 23 on 49.8 ts was insufficient thru 6 games and needed Ray to force Game 7
Jordan's 27 on 53.8 ts would've been sufficient to end it in 6, like he always did

So no

[ImKobe]

Through the entire series

LeBron: 25/11/7 on 53%TS, led the team in points/assists/rebounds/steals
Jordan: 27/5/4 on 54%TS, led the team in points

So yes

Jordan had more consistent play in his series. They had it wrapped up after 3 - 0 but Seattle did win 2 of their 3 home games (old 2-3-2 format). Jordan had the better series because he never let his team get close to elimination, lebron needed a vintage Wade performance and an all-time great defensive series from Bosh, followed by Allen hitting the greatest clutch shot in Finals history.

Jordan never allowed a Game 7. Lebron needed the two greatest clutch shots in Finals history (none of which he hit) to win 2 of his 3 rings. Jordan's shot is 3rd on that list and he did it himself at age 35 with his 2nd best player injured and while on the road.

It's hilarious to compare the two Finals to begin with because we're talking peak Lebron going up against aging Spurs and a very raw Kawhi vs. 33 y.o MJ being guarded by a DPOY on a 64-win team.

[bigkingsfan]

Through the entire series

LeBron: 25/11/7 on 53%TS, led the team in points/assists/rebounds/steals
Jordan: 27/5/4 on 54%TS, led the team in points

So yes
Even Kemp/Rodman managed to get FMVP votes in..

[sdot_thadon]

Thank God the season is starting soon and we can go back to guys obsessing over actual games instead of the tired ass hypotheticals.....


Lebron's 23 on 49.8 ts was insufficient thru 6 games and needed Ray to force Game 7
Jordan's 27 on 53.8 ts would've been sufficient to end it in 6, like he always did

So no
So by your estimation 4 ppg would have ended it in 6 right? Your math is terrible.:facepalm

[Turbo Slayer]

Micahel Jordan played in a weak era with no competition. Shortened 3pt line, hand check is overrated as hell, and stars that were edgy off court. LOL :lol

WEAK ERA.

Today's superstars WOULD DESTROY 90's STARS.

FACTS. Overrated as hell era. :lol

[ILLsmak]

yea was crazy. Pascal came almost out of nowhere and Lowry is a major choker, or we all thought he was, and he went in balls2thewall. I still think if they had chosen Lowry as the guy to make them beat them for the whole series, he wouldn't have been able to keep doing it in high volume. He'd just need to miss a couple then his balls would shrink. But I mean if you compare that to a team like 2011 Dallas, those guys came up way bigger than any non-star filled champion, that I can remember.

also lol 2 pippens. But yea they played really above what you'd expect. Probably some of that was poor D scheme, but they make some touch shots. I think GS was just too injured and battered mentally.

-Smak

[Jasper]

what about Howell

those three killed the Bucks, as well as championship series

[3ball]

yea was crazy. Pascal came almost out of nowhere and Lowry is a major choker, or we all thought he was, and he went in balls2thewall. I still think if they had chosen Lowry as the guy to make them beat them for the whole series, he wouldn't have been able to keep doing it in high volume. He'd just need to miss a couple then his balls would shrink. But I mean if you compare that to a team like 2011 Dallas, those guys came up way bigger than any non-star filled champion, that I can remember.

lol 2 pippens. But yea they played really above what you'd expect. Probably some of that was poor D scheme, but they make some touch shots. I think GS was just too injured and battered mentally.

-Smak
^^^ This bullshit overrating and history revision.... :facepalm

MJ had higher DPOY finishes than Pippen throughout the 90's - but history has been revised by new fans who can't figure out how MJ won 6 rings with such little help - so they make Pippen into this defensive monster that he wasn't

Pip only gave the Bulls the #7 team defense and he virtually never locked anyone down - everyone got theirs on him in every series he ever played - he's the most overrated defender in the history of the game with zero lockdown performances and only worth the #7 team defense

So he'll yeah Lowry and siakam played defense like Pippen with WAY better offense

Facts gonna facts but carry on...

[AirBonner]

^^^ This bullshit overrating and history revision.... :facepalm

MJ had higher DPOY finishes than Pippen throughout the 90's - but history has been revised by new fans who can't figure out how MJ won 6 rings with such little help - so they make Pippen into this defensive monster that he wasn't

Pip only gave the Bulls the #7 team defense and he virtually never locked anyone down - everyone got theirs on him in every series he ever played - he's the most overrated defender in the history of the game with zero lockdown performances and only worth the #7 team defense

So he'll yeah Lowry and siakam played defense like Pippen with WAY better offense

Facts gonna facts but carry on...
Much like the 90

[Rico2016]

Bulls after MJ - 55 wins


Raps before Kawhi - 59 wins



damn, well said OP :confusedshrug:

Whoa