How can a top 3 player only have one MVP?

[AirBonner]

Kobe has 1. Even Nash has more :confusedshrug:

[3ball]

Kobe has 1. Even Nash has more :confusedshrug:
^^^ kinda proves the MVP isn't a good measure

Shaq only has 1..

you only need 1 tbh, although the load management era means that you can have great dominance while winning a chip (kawhi), but never win mvp due to lack of games

ultimately, mvp is just 1 measure.. the only time that I think it gives insight is that all 40 MVP's in the modern era (since the 3-pt line began in 1980) were dominant offensive players.. so we know a 1-way defender like bill russell couldn't be an mvp-caliber player in the modern era
.

[Doranku]

How many does the guy who supposedly carried Kobe have?

[Smoke117]

Kobe isn't even close to considered a top 3 player so why even make this thread? Doranku and his ilk of kobe tards opinions don't really mean anything. Every time they post they are basically telling everyone they know nothing about basketball.

[imdaman99]

Kobe ain't top 3 and I'm team Kobe. He is top 10 though, somewhere in the 6-8 range

[Smoke117]

Kobe ain't top 3 and I'm team Kobe. He is top 10 though, somewhere in the 6-8 range

lol top 6? Are you joking? Name me the top 5 and then Kobe so I can laugh at who you think Kobe is greater then.

[Marchesk]

Name me the top 5 and then Kobe so I can laugh at who you think Kobe is greater then.

Magic, Kareem, Shaq, Wilt, West.

[Smoke117]

Magic, Kareem, Shaq, Wilt, West.

And that's it? Hakeem, Bird, Duncan, Barkley, Russell are clearly over Kobe.

[Doranku]

Kobe isn't even close to considered a top 3 player so why even make this thread? Doranku and his ilk of kobe tards opinions don't really mean anything. Every time they post they are basically telling everyone they know nothing about basketball.

Yeah because everyone takes your drunken ramblings seriously. :lol The only player I've ever seen you support is Chris Paul, that says enough about your basketball knowledge. Or maybe you just like him because he always comes up short when it matters. It's always nice to have something in common with our role models.

[AlternativeAcc.]

And that's it? Hakeem, Bird, Duncan, Barkley, Russell are clearly over Kobe.
His post went over your head

[3ball]

lol top 6? Are you joking? Name me the top 5 and then Kobe so I can laugh at who you think Kobe is greater then.
1) MJ
2) Bird
3) Kobe
4) Magic
5) Wilt
6) Shaq
7) Kareem
8) Duncan


But perimeter goats generally need less help then goat bigs, so I put the perimeter goats over the bigs

Btw, Kareem lost his ass in the 70's pre-Magic, and needed the most all-star teammates of anyone in the top 10 (9 teammates, 25 appearances); he gets overrated a little.. And only 2 rings as "the man"

[Smoke117]

Yeah because everyone takes your drunken ramblings seriously. :lol The only player I've ever seen you support is Chris Paul, that says enough about your basketball knowledge. Or maybe you just like him because he always comes up short when it matters. It's always nice to have something in common with our role models.

Yes, supporting possibly the greatest basketball mind of all time really shows how I know nothing about basketball, right? Jesus christ you're an idiot. :oldlol: I bet if Chris Paul actually ended up on the Lakers you would be sucking his dick right now. That's how worthless your basketball opinion is. There is no thoughtful objectivity.

[Doranku]

Yes, supporting possibly the greatest basketball mind of all time really shows how I know nothing about basketball, right? Jesus christ you're an idiot. :oldlol: I bet if Chris Paul actually ended up on the Lakers you would be sucking his dick right now. That's how worthless your basketball opinion is. There is no thoughtful objectivity.
:roll:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfZPHW_fuOI

Greatest basketball mind of all time.

[Smoke117]

1) MJ
2) Bird
3) Kobe
4) Magic
5) Wilt
6) Shaq
7) Kareem
8) Duncan


Perimeter goats generally need less help then goat bigs, so I out the perimeter goats over the bigs

Btw, Kareem lost his ass in the 70's pre-Magic, and needed the most all-star teammates of anyone in the top 10 (9 teammates, 25 appearances); he gets overrated a little.. And only 2 rings as "the man"


lmfao. You have kareem at 7th and want to actually be taken seriously? Good luck with that.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Barkley "clearly" ahead of Kobe.

Hah!

Put the henny down, dreamer.

[Smoke117]

Barkley "clearly" ahead of Kobe.

Hah!

Put the henny down, dreamer.

Barkley was clearly a more impactful player throughout his career. Sir Charles average BPM for his career is higher than Kobe's best season.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Barkley was clearly a more impactful player throughout his career. Sir Charles average BPM for his career is higher than Kobe's best season.

Yeah, and Kobe basically led the league in playoff RAPM...en route to 2 titles.

RAPM > BPM everyday.

[Smoke117]

Yeah, and Kobe basically led the league in playoff RAPM...en route to 2 titles.

RAPM > BPM everyday.

link

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

link

I already linked it to you in another thread.

Git labs' RAPM for the 2009 and 2010 playoffs.

Kobe is atop the list and is CLEARLY ahead of Barkley. Quit bullshitting.

[Smoke117]

I already linked it to you in another thread.

Git labs' RAPM for the 2009 and 2010 playoffs.

Kobe is atop the list. Kobe is CLEARLY ahead of Barkley. Quit bullshitting.


This shit is clearly flawed. You got scrubs like JR Smith at 6th and Ilgauskas at 7th. We are supposed to believe they were better and more impactful than LeBron James in the 2009 playoffs? Don't be daft. Also if they had RAPM in Barkleys time I'm sure he'd have been higher than Kobe.

[3ball]

lmfao. You have kareem at 7th and want to actually be taken seriously? Good luck with that.
If you want someone that gets overrated for his 6 rings, it's Kareem

He was 4th option for his 6th ring and only 2 FMVP...

He also had the most help ever (9 all-star teammates, 25 appearances) and his per game stats are crap

But people rank him super-high because he's the only guy that can match MJ in rings - it's literally a blind ranking based on rings - but the reality is that Kareem was 1 of many stars on those teams and rarely had to carry his team like other guys

Tbh, it makes no sense to have both Magic and Kareem in the top 5 - it's too much help for both of them

[Smoke117]

If you want someone that gets overrated for his 6 rings, it's Kareem

He was 4th option for his 6th ring and only 2 FMVP...

He also had the most help ever (9 all-star teammates, 25 appearances) and his per game stats are crap

But people rank him super-high because he's the only guy that can match MJ in rings - it's literally a blind ranking based on rings - but Kareem was 1 of many stars on those teams and rarely had to carry his team like other guys

The only reason Kareem is overrated to you is because he is sometimes considered the GOAT instead of MJ. That's LITERALLY the only reason you are now trying to belittle his status. You are too transparent to fool anyone, dickhead.

[Doranku]

Barkley couldn't even make the finals with Hakeem and Clyde. :lol I don't want to hear the age excuse because they lost in the WCF to Stockton and Malone who were literally the same age.

Hakeem was brilliant for those 2 years Jordan retired. Outside of that? Great player, terrible leader. 8 first round exits. :lol Imagine if Kobe had 8 first round exits, he gets trashed for the two he has with Smush Parker and Kwame Brown.

Quit romanticizing these players because their careers have been over for decades. They were not better than Kobe.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

This shit is clearly flawed. You got scrubs like JR Smith at 6th and Ilgauskas at 7th. We are going to believe they were better than LeBron James in the 2009 playoffs. Don't be daft.

You're a lame.

Yeah "bullshit" when it doesn't agree with you. Right. Not a peep when you post BPM tho. Another box score variation :lol

Fact is, Kobe led playoff offensive RAPM both those years. And has the volume to back it up (next time adjust for possessions).

Show me when Barkley ever did that.

[305Baller]

Barkley couldn't even make the finals with Hakeem and Clyde. :lol I don't want to hear the age excuse because they lost in the WCF to Stockton and Malone who were literally the same age.

Hakeem was brilliant for those 2 years Jordan retired. Outside of that? Great player, terrible leader. 8 first round exits. :lol Imagine if Kobe had 8 first round exits, he gets trashed for the two he has with Smush Parker and Kwame Brown.

Quit romanticizing these players because their careers have been over for decades. They were not better than Kobe.

:lol

dat ether tho

[Smoke117]

Barkley couldn't even make the finals with Hakeem and Clyde. :lol I don't want to hear the age excuse because they lost in the WCF to Stockton and Malone who were literally the same age.

Hakeem was brilliant for those 2 years Jordan retired. Outside of that? Great player, terrible leader. 8 first round exits. :lol Imagine if Kobe had 8 first round exits, he gets trashed for the two he has with Smush Parker and Kwame Brown.

Quit romanticizing these players because their careers have been over for decades. They were not better than Kobe.

What does an old and injury barkley on the Rockets have to do with anything? You think Kobe could have led that 90 Sixers team to 53 wins like Barley did?:oldlol: That sixers team would have won 40 games max if you replaced Barkley with a peak Kobe. Also, just saying so and so was the same age means nothing. Not everyone ages the same way. That's just a moronic take from a moron.

[Smoke117]

You're a lame.

Yeah "bullshit" when it doesn't agree with you. Right. Not a peep when you post BPM tho. Another box score variation :lol

Fact is, Kobe led playoff offensive RAPM both those years. And has the volume to back it up (next time adjust for possessions).

Show me when Barkley ever did that.

How can I show you a stat that didn't exist in Barkley's time? I actually watched prime Barkley and he was a monster. I got the eye test, youngster.

[3ball]

The only reason Kareem is overrated to you is because he is sometimes considered the GOAT instead of MJ. That's LITERALLY the only reason you are now trying to belittle his status. You are too transparent to fool anyone, dickhead.
No it's because he was 4th option for his 6th ring and only 2 FMVP...

He also had the most help ever (9 all-star teammates versus 1 teammate for MJ) and his per game stats are crap

But people rank him super-high because he's the only guy that can match MJ in rings - it's literally a blind ranking based on rings - but Kareem was 1 of many stars on those teams and rarely had to carry his team like other guys

Tbh, it makes no sense to have both Magic and Kareem in the top 5 - it's too much help for both of them

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

How can I show you a stat that didn't exist in Barkley's time?

Then why post bullshit like "certainly".... when you only have HALF the data?


I actually watched prime Barkley and he was a monster. I got the eye test, youngster.

That's great. I did too, "youngster".

Kobe was better.

[Smoke117]

How can you be so certain then?

I have an all time great BBIQ my man. I analyze basketball like those math nerds analyze quantum physics.

[Doranku]

What does an old and injury barkley on the Rockets have to do with anything? You think Kobe could have led that 90 Sixers team to 53 wins like Barley did?:oldlol: That sixers team would have won 40 games max if you replaced Barkley with a peak Kobe. Also, just saying so and so was the same age means nothing. Not everyone ages the same way. That's just a moronic take from a moron.

Uh, yes? Barkley had 5 other players putting up double digit points on good efficiency. He got basically identical production from his teammates as Kobe did when he won 65 games in '09. :oldlol:

Barkley's teammates:
19/4/3 on 46%
14/3/7 on 49%
14/9/2 on 46%
12/4/2 on 45%
11/8/1 on 50%

compared to Kobe's teammates:
19/10/4 on 57%
14/8/1 on 56%
11/8/3 on 49%
10/2/4 on 42%
9/4/2 on 46%

Keep romanticizing a time period of basketball that you didn't even watch, though.

[Smoke117]

Uh, yes? Barkley had 5 other players putting up double digit points on good efficiency. He got basically identical production from his teammates as Kobe did when he won 65 games in '09. :oldlol:

Barkley's teammates:
19/4/3 on 46%
14/3/7 on 49%
14/9/2 on 46%
12/4/2 on 45%
11/8/1 on 50%

compared to Kobe's teammates:
19/10/4 on 57%
14/8/1 on 56%
11/8/3 on 49%
10/2/4 on 42%
9/4/2 on 46%

Keep romanticizing a time period of basketball that you didn't even watch, though.


lol Kobe's teammates? Did Shaq just all the sudden disappear? :roll: It's also different eras so just throwing out numbers is juvenile and stupid. It is pointless to have any kind of debate with you anyway. You are a kobe stain. No matter what you will just run with your obsession. It's a waste of both our times, so good night.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I have an all time great BBIQ my man. I analyze basketball like those math nerds analyze quantum physics.

If that were true, you wouldn't be getting pummeled by me and the Kobe stans.

Here's another one for you.


Without Kobe Bryant, the 2005-2006 Lakers had an offensive rating of 92.4, equivalent to the 3rd worst offense in NBA history. With Kobe the Lakers had a #3 offense in the league.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01/on-off/2006

Again... Show me when Barkley ever had that type of impact.

[Smoke117]

If that were true, you wouldn't be getting pummeled by me and the Kobe stans.

Here's another one for you, bud.



Again. Show me when Barkley ever had that type of impact.


Well it's kind of hard for the team to do anything when you have one player chucking up 30 shots a game. Also pummeled by you and the kobe fam? Stop patting yourself on the back, brudder. :oldlol: Anyway, I am now bored by all this so I'm going to call it a night. Take care.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Well it's kind of hard for the team to do anything when you have one player chucking up 30 shots a game. Also pummeled by you and the kobe fam? Stop patting yourself on the back, brudder. :oldlol:

Literally has nothing to do with what I just posted.

Sober up and read it again.

Without Kobe, LA's offense was the 3rd worst in NBA history. With him? They were 3rd in the league.

[superduper]

I agree some Kobe stans are delusional but the denial Kobe haters go through is absolutely hilarious :oldlol:

[Doranku]

lol Kobe's teammates? Did Shaq just all the sudden disappear? :roll: It's also different eras so just throwing out numbers is juvenile and stupid. It is pointless to have any kind of debate with you anyway. You are a kobe stain. No matter what you will just run with your obsession. It's a waste of both our times, so good night.
:lol At least I can be somewhat objective about Kobe. I have him ranked #10 all-time which should be very reasonable to even Kobe haters like yourself. Pretty sure I've seen you rank him outside of the top 20 which is just ridiculous.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Well it's kind of hard for the team to do anything when you have one player chucking up 30 shots a game. Also pummeled by you and the kobe fam? Stop patting yourself on the back, brudder. :oldlol: Anyway, I am now bored by all this so I'm going to call it a night. Take care.

Come back, Smoke.

I'm not finished with you yet :oldlol:

[superduper]

Well Smoke quit after he realized the embarrassment :oldlol:

[Smoke117]

:lol At least I can be somewhat objective about Kobe. I have him ranked #10 all-time which should be very reasonable to even Kobe haters like yourself. Pretty sure I've seen you rank him outside of the top 20 which is just ridiculous.

And when has that ever been true? In the years you've posted here I don't think objectivity regarding Kobe has ever come up in regards to your opinions. I've also literally never ranked players up to 20 or beyond so that would be impossible. I don't like doing all time rankings at all as they are just boring. I'd rather discuss current basketball...something so few want to discuss here seemingly. If you actually try to discuss current players and not something that revolves Jordan, Kobe, and Bran you just get ignored.

[Bronbron23]

Kobe has 1. Even Nash has more :confusedshrug:
Because mvp's don't equal best player. half of the last 20 player mvp's weren't even the second best player in the league let alone first. Winning, Stats, impact(defence, leadership, intelligence) and the eye test are better ways to measure a player. The eye test is a tricky one because fans have a hard time seeing things objectively but for people who can it's probably the best way to evaluate a player.

[ImKobe]

I don't see anyone dissing Shaq for 1 MVP, why we doing this to Kobe?

[Dr Hawk]

I don't see anyone dissing Shaq for 1 MVP, why we doing this to Kobe?

Because Kobe is more important to basketball than Shaq.

People are constantly talking about Kobe, no matter if you are a fan, a hater, in the middle ground or someone who is not that interested in basketball. Those people will still talk about Kobe when an NBA discussion arises.

Kobe sells a lot more than Shaq.

[AirBonner]

I don't see anyone dissing Shaq for 1 MVP, why we doing this to Kobe?
No one claims Shaq is top 3