There's a first time for everything - US billionaires pay lower tax rate than workers

[Dr Seuss]

https://www.smh.com.au/business/the-economy/for-first-time-ever-us-billionaires-pay-lower-tax-rate-than-workers-20191009-p52yx4.html

[FultzNationRISE]

That

[Rico2016]

As a percentage or a dollar amount..

[SomeBlackDude]

US income inequality jumps to highest level ever recorded

Income inequality last year reached its highest level in more than half a century, as a record-long economic expansion continued to disproportionately benefit some of the wealthiest Americans.

A key measure of wealth distribution jumped to 0.485 in 2018, the Census Bureau said Thursday, its highest reading since the so-called Gini index was started in 1967. The gauge, which uses a scale of 0 to 1, stood at 0.482 a year earlier.

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/411/962/027.jpg

*they're laughing with you, not at you.

[CelticBaller]

Taxation is theft

[Dr Seuss]

As a percentage or a dollar amount..

percentage

[ItsMillerTime]

Trump's America. He has a long history of screwing over middle class workers. Why did anyone expect differently when they voted for him?

[FultzNationRISE]

Trump's America. He has a long history of screwing over middle class workers. Why did anyone expect differently when they voted for him?


“Billionaires” means assets. How do you tax assets?

Should a guy making 65k be taxed on his 200k home each year?

“Billionaires” arent pulling in a billion in taxable income each year you utter economic illiterate :roll: .

Some of them might be “worth a billion” without having actually made any income for the year. How do you tax zero? Or you want to just send the feds in and indiscriminately raid the stock portfolios of anyone worth over x amount of dollars on paper??

This is what happens what dumb rubes believe whatever headines they find convenient, with no context.

You retarded moron.

[~primetime~]

Why do you think Trump won't show his taxes?

Once all those rural blue colar hard working Christians who voted him come to revelation that he pays less taxes than they do its going to leave them dumb founded.


A lot of billionaires are against this...Buffett, Gates, Cuban, etc...they know if the wealth divided gets bad enough its going to fck THEM over. No one left to buy their shit. The wealthy NEED a wealthy middle class. We can all prosper or suffer together, its not one or the other.

Buffett has been outspoken about this issue for years...multiple times he's shown the he pays less taxes than his own secretary does.



I dont even think we need MORE socialism....we just need the wealthy to pay what they are supposed to pay. The top tax bracket is 37%...they need to pay THAT. None of them do, they all loop hole out of it, because our tax system is an overly confusing dumpster fire of a mess that can be worked around.

[CelticBaller]

Why do you think Trump won't show his taxes?

Once all those rural blue colar hard working Christians who voted him come to revelation that he pays less taxes than they do its going to leave them dumb founded.


A lot of billionaires are against this...Buffett, Gates, Cuban, etc...they know if the wealth divided gets bad enough its going to fck THEM over. No one left to buy their shit. The wealthy NEED a wealthy middle class. We can all prosper or suffer together, its not one or the other.

Buffett has been outspoken about this issue for years...multiple times he's shown the he pays less taxes than his own secretary does.



I dont even think we need MORE socialism....we just need the wealthy to pay what they are supposed to pay. The top tax bracket is 37%...they need to pay THAT. None of them do, they all loop hole out of it, because our tax system is an overly confusing dumpster fire of a mess that can be worked around.
Doesn

[FultzNationRISE]

Why do you think Trump won't show his taxes?

Once all those rural blue colar hard working Christians who voted him come to revelation that he pays less taxes than they do its going to leave them dumb founded.


A lot of billionaires are against this...Buffett, Gates, Cuban, etc...they know if the wealth divided gets bad enough its going to fck THEM over. No one left to buy their shit. The wealthy NEED a wealthy middle class. We can all prosper or suffer together, its not one or the other.

Buffett has been outspoken about this issue for years...multiple times he's shown the he pays less taxes than his own secretary does.



I dont even think we need MORE socialism....we just need the wealthy to pay what they are supposed to pay. The top tax bracket is 37%...they need to pay THAT. None of them do, they all loop hole out of it, because our tax system is an overly confusing dumpster fire of a mess that can be worked around.



Okay, so if primetime has $300k savings in the bank and didnt make a dime the last 5 years, lets tax that 300k at 27% every year.

Pay what you should pay primetime!

:hammerhead:

[ItsMillerTime]

[QUOTE=FultzNationRISE]

[~primetime~]

Okay, so if primetime has $300k savings in the bank and didnt make a dime the last 5 years, lets tax that 300k at 27% every year.

Pay what you should pay primetime!

:hammerhead:
INCOME tax is what is being talked about here

[FultzNationRISE]

https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/022/017/thumb.png

The extreme rich pay a smaller tax rate than minimum wage workers. Tax rates have been decreasing for the extreme rich for decades now, while the rates of the lower classes have largely remain unchanged.

From the article: It finds that in 2018 the average effective tax rate paid by the richest 400 families in the country was 23 per cent, a full percentage point lower than the 24.2 per cent rate paid by the bottom half of American households.

YOU, YOURSELF, are being taken advantage of and you're vehemently fighting to remain that way. Christ you're stupid. You think you're some enlightened individual, but you're really not. You're a fvcking loser that tries to sell razor blades over a basketball forum. You're more than likely a bottom feeder of society. Take this L and go better yourself.



So your argument is that Im working to provide something and earn something commensurate to what Ive produced.

When I should be sitting there crying

[qrich]

Income tax should be at zero

[FultzNationRISE]

INCOME tax is what is being talked about here


Who filed a W-2 with $1,000,000,000 in reported income last year?

That’s hella impressive.

[TheMan]

As a percentage or a dollar amount..
:biggums:

[FultzNationRISE]

Income tax should be at zero


They cant understand non-standard ideas that havent been spoonfed to them via the mainstream media, complete with accompanying taking points.

Not sayin Im sold on zero income tax, just that Im always happy to have the discussion. These guys wont be.

[~primetime~]

[QUOTE=FultzNationRISE]Who filed a W-2 with $1,000,000,000 in reported income last year?

That

[tpols]

*insert kblaze*

they deserve even mo money.

[tpols]

Why do you think Trump won't show his taxes?

Once all those rural blue colar hard working Christians who voted him come to revelation that he pays less taxes than they do its going to leave them dumb founded.


A lot of billionaires are against this...Buffett, Gates, Cuban, etc...they know if the wealth divided gets bad enough its going to fck THEM over. No one left to buy their shit. The wealthy NEED a wealthy middle class. We can all prosper or suffer together, its not one or the other.

Buffett has been outspoken about this issue for years...multiple times he's shown the he pays less taxes than his own secretary does.



I dont even think we need MORE socialism....we just need the wealthy to pay what they are supposed to pay. The top tax bracket is 37%...they need to pay THAT. None of them do, they all loop hole out of it, because our tax system is an overly confusing dumpster fire of a mess that can be worked around.


Yup... they have the best accountants and lawyers money can buy to get out of paying their fair share.

and what are they gonna do? not take advantage of that?

[tpols]

They cant understand non-standard ideas that havent been spoonfed to them via the mainstream media, complete with accompanying taking points.

Not sayin Im sold on zero income tax, just that Im always happy to have the discussion. These guys wont be.


you represent the exact opposite end of the spectrum that you hate doe.

Zero income tax would leave too little money for public spending.

Not talkin baby mamas, but trains, buses, roads, healthcare etc. that all of us regular folk rely on.

With no taxes, shit would turn into zimbabwe quick... or somalia.. or india. Pure capitalism, no social spending.

[FultzNationRISE]

you represent the exact opposite end of the spectrum that you hate doe.

Zero income tax would leave too little money for public spending.

Not talkin baby mamas, but trains, buses, roads, healthcare etc. that all of us regular folk rely on.

With no taxes, shit would turn into zimbabwe quick... or somalia.. or india. Pure capitalism, no social spending.


:biggums:


First of all I said I wasnt sold on it.


Second of all.... Income tax =/= Federal tax bro.

[Hawker]

Yup... they have the best accountants and lawyers money can buy to get out of paying their fair share.

and what are they gonna do? not take advantage of that?

How do you determine what's "fair?"

[tpols]

Is it any suprise that the highest quality of life countries on this earth veer towards a heavy socialist tilt?

while the shithole countries have virtually no public infrastructure?

if stalin's russia was 95/5, maybe 65/35 for current euro?

USA is probably like 20/80 right now in favor of capitalism.

There needs to be a better balance without trolls acting like were going full josef.

[Hawker]

Is it any suprise that the highest quality of life countries on this earth veer towards a heavy socialist tilt?

if stalin's russia was 95/5, maybe 65/35 for the former?

USA is probably like 20/80 right now in favor of capitalism.

There needs to be a better balance without trolls acting like were going full josef.

Ask the prime ministers of scandinavian countries who laugh when you call their countries socialist.

BTW - Berine Sanders championed many ideas of Stalin's soviet union. For some reason, he isn't doing it anymore? I guess it stopped being "real socialism" after he realized it didn't work.

[tpols]

Ask the prime ministers of scandinavian countries who laugh when you call their countries socialist.

BTW - Berine Sanders championed many ideas of Stalin's soviet union. For some reason, he isn't doing it anymore? I guess it stopped being "real socialism" after he realized it didn't work.



they laugh because a lot of those countries had direct conflict with russia and know what true socialism is.

jesus christ hawker, theyre mocking your GOP talking points and you dont even get it...

:biggums:

:lol

[FultzNationRISE]

Bezos has made that in one day...he's sold off billion chunks of Amazon at a tine

when your assets increase in value, you're supposed to be taxed on that increase upon sale of it. Capital gains.


Capital gains taxes are low for a reason. You have to RISK your money to make gains. Wage jobs you just show up, and they are legally required to pay you.

If someone invests a bunch of money into a drug that fights multiple sclerosis, or a company that develops home security systems, or a new app-based rideshare business... he’s guaranteed nothing. He could lose the whole investment and nobody owes him shit.

You like helpful medicine right? And home security? And rideshares? Tax the shit out of investor returns, and youll never have those things. They exist because investment taxes are kept low enough to encourage developers. So what if that means Bezos “only pays 23% taxes??” Who cares??

What dont you understans about that? Some people took a risk on beneficial endeavors, now theyre rich. Great! We all won. They dont owe shit to someone sitting on the couch chain smoking, just bc that person was born and exists and deserves “their fair share.”

What a bitch mentality.

[FultzNationRISE]

Is it any suprise that the highest quality of life countries on this earth veer towards a heavy socialist tilt?

while the shithole countries have virtually no public infrastructure?

if stalin's russia was 95/5, maybe 65/35 for current euro?

USA is probably like 20/80 right now in favor of capitalism.

There needs to be a better balance without trolls acting like were going full josef.


All their “quality of life” stuff was invented by American businesses, and their enjoyment of these things unmolested is guaranteed by the American army.

Theyre enjoying the fruits of AMERICAN capitalism by being allies. Theyre like a rich guy’s wife. They didnt invent and protect that shit themselves :oldlol: Theyve been spoiled riding the coatails of the AMERICAN system. Of course socialism is great to THEM.

Somebody around here gotta work :crazysam:

[Hawker]

they laugh because a lot of those countries had direct conflict with russia and know what true socialism is.

jesus christ hawker, theyre mocking your GOP talking points and you dont even get it...

:biggums:

:lol

Fmr. Sweden prime minister:

[QUOTE]Bildt responded,

[Hawker]

[QUOTE=FultzNationRISE]Capital gains taxes are low for a reason. You have to RISK your money to make gains. Wage jobs you just show up, and they are legally required to pay you.

If someone invests a bunch of money into a drug that fights multiple sclerosis, or a company that develops home security systems, or a new app-based rideshare business... he

[~primetime~]

[QUOTE=FultzNationRISE]Capital gains taxes are low for a reason. You have to RISK your money to make gains. Wage jobs you just show up, and they are legally required to pay you.

If someone invests a bunch of money into a drug that fights multiple sclerosis, or a company that develops home security systems, or a new app-based rideshare business... he

[FultzNationRISE]

Exactly.

"Oh no. I can get a much larger variety of things I want/need from Amazon at a much better price than I used to and the individuals who sell those items can make an income from it indirectly creating more jobs. Life is so much worse than before Amazon! I hate successful people!"

:lol



Jeff Bezos’ Amazon made my life so much easier...

Now cough up some more of that “fair share” Bezos!!!

[FultzNationRISE]

Bezos isnt paying anywhere near 23%

Buffett literally pays more taxes than his secretary

Buffett and Bezos and others are coming to the epiphany that billionaires need to pay their fair share. All that money dumped into the general population will just funnel right back to Bezos anyway...and in the process drive revenues up which will make the value of his stock sky rocket...everyone wins. Wealthy people need a healthy thriving middke class, not a middle class living paycheck to paycheck struggling to get healthcare.

From ItsMillerTime

[tpols]

All their “quality of life” stuff was invented by American businesses, and their enjoyment of these things unmolested is guaranteed by the American army.

Theyre enjoying the fruits of AMERICAN capitalism by being allies. Theyre like a rich guy’s wife. They didnt invent and protect that shit themselves :oldlol: Theyve been spoiled riding the coatails of the AMERICAN system. Of course socialism is great to THEM.

Somebody around here gotta work :crazysam:


:wtf:

do you know how many high end companies come from germany and scandanavia?

These countries are totally self sufficient.

Nukes have ended traditional warfare, my boy Trump is TOTALLY anti-war have you seen his recent tweets?

War has robbed us, land ware-fare is a lost art. USA's military budget is 100x more bloated than it should be and not protecting shit right now, just enriching its investors.

You really are a mindless sheep lmaoo

[FultzNationRISE]

Bezos isnt paying anywhere near 23%

Buffett literally pays more taxes than his secretary

Buffett and Bezos and others are coming to the epiphany that billionaires need to pay their fair share. All that money dumped into the general population will just funnel right back to Bezos anyway...and in the process drive revenues up which will make the value of his stock sky rocket...everyone wins. Wealthy people need a healthy thriving middke class, not a middle class living paycheck to paycheck struggling to get healthcare.


More importantly, the country needs an intelligent, educated, proactive population.

This will not happen through “take from him, give to him.”

Sure, a big handout will make things fun for everyone for a couple years. It isnt SUSTAINABLE. It’s not workable in the larger picture. The question is who has the brains to see the big picture, and who doesnt.

[tpols]

Germany is running the highest surplus in the world since world war 2 and america built them?

:roll:

they had to PAY america reparations, and are still on top.

jeesus.

[FultzNationRISE]

:wtf:

do you know how many high end companies come from germany and scandanavia?

These countries are totally self sufficient.

Nukes have ended traditional warfare, my boy Trump is TOTALLY anti-war have you seen his recent tweets?

War has robbed us, land ware-fare is a lost art. USA's military budget is 100x more bloated than it should be and not protecting shit right now, just enriching its investors.

You really are a mindless sheep lmaoo


Youre poorly comprehending the points I’m making.

After reviewing my previous post, I have concluded it’s a “you” problem.

Sorry my friend.

[~primetime~]

Exactly.

"Oh no. I can get a much larger variety of things I want/need from Amazon at a much better price than I used to and the individuals who sell those items can make an income from it indirectly creating more jobs. Life is so much worse than before Amazon! I hate successful people!"
No one hates successful people...thats a deflection and cop out. They hate the tax system that is allowing them to evade taxes

We need a wealth gap like Australia whete you live....the middle class in Australia is 2x as wealthy as the middke class in the US. And Australia dorsnt have anywhere near as much wealth.

[FultzNationRISE]

Germany is running the highest surplus in the world since world war 2 and america built them?

:roll:

they had to PAY america reparations, and are still on top.

jeesus.


Im not knocking Germany. I was referring more specifically to these tiny Scandinavian countries you referenced previously. Countries that would belong entirely to Russia if not for the US, Britain, Germany etc.

In any event, the American free market system has still contributed far more to today

[FultzNationRISE]

No one hates successful people...thats a deflection and cop out. They hate the tax system that is allowing them to evade taxes

We need a wealth gap like Australia whete you live....the middle class in Australia is 2x as wealthy as the middke class in the US. And Australia dorsnt have anywhere near as much wealth.


Australia doesnt have as many gutterballs all over the country!!!

Have you driven around America?? We are filled with trash. Of every color. Lazy idiots EVERYWHERE.

You cannot fix that with a government system. What dont you get about it? Bureaucrats cannot snap their fingers and make people informed, disciplined, ambitious etc. It’s a different culture here. If you want different results, it has to come from a change in CULTURE. Not a change in government.

Youre asking for the impossible because youre too lazy and intimidated to accept and confront the reality.

“Govt gonna fix it!” is a bill of goods sold by politicians to idiots.

IT’S THE PEOPLE. You dont have the guts to say it? Or it just doesnt OCCUR to you to say it, because you never hear the “leaders” saying such unpopular things publicly. Snap out and look around and think for yourself. Govt cant magically fix this shit writing some new words on a piece of paper. A declaration of independence doesnt mean SHIT if youre not dumping the queens tea in the harbor.

Good god man. All the idiots supporting Bernie’s “utopia” do nothing THEMSELVES to achieve it. It’s all talk. That never works.

[tpols]

Im not knocking Germany. I was referring more specifically to these tiny Scandinavian countries you referenced previously. Countries that would belong entirely to Russia if not for the US, Britain, Germany etc.

In any event, the American free market system has still contributed far more to today’s modern western lifestyle than Germany. Germany has done a lot; but it’s not close to America.


Most of USA culture is built off german & general euro culture... beer, sports, BBQ food, our own damn current president. :lol

All of the biggest american companies of the post industrial revolution era linked to them...

America culture is new dude and it came from euro roots.

You act like it spawned on its own lol. Western lifestyle came from euros.

[FultzNationRISE]

Most of USA culture is built off german & general euro culture... beer, sports, BBQ food, our own damn current president. :lol

All of the biggest american companies of the post industrial revolution era linked to them...

America culture is new dude and it came from euro roots.

You act like it spawned on its own lol. Western lifestyle came from euros.


The culture of the “American Dream” that so many immigrants came here to America to participate in, is what led to unprecedented advancements benefitting all world society.

The immigrant mindset is GREAT. The only way this country can thrive WITHOUT bringing in more immigrants is for today’s citizens to adopt the immigrant mindset.

“I’m here, I’m gonna go to work, I’m gonna earn some shit.”

They hve more of that mentality in Germany naturally. Entitled American Berntards do not have that mentality. Let alone the Shaquantrelle’s in the ghettos of every American city, and all the alcoholic Indians getting welfare on the reservations.

American govt cannot “give” people that mentality. Do you understand?

If we dont have that mentality, your way isnt gonna make everyone rich, and my way isnt gonna make everyone rich.

Your way will eventually lead to chaos. My way at least gives a chance to the few people who DO give a shit.

[tpols]

The culture of the “American Dream” that so many immigrants came here to America to participate in, is what led to unprecedented advancements benefitting all world society.

The immigrant mindset is GREAT. The only way this country can thrive WITHOUT bringing in more immigrants is for today’s citizens to adopt the immigrant mindset.

“I’m here, I’m gonna go to work, I’m gonna earn some shit.”

They hve more of that mentality in Germany naturally. Entitled American Berntards do not have that mentality. Let alone the Shaquantrelle’s in the ghettos of every American city, and all the alcoholic Indians getting welfare on the reservations.

American govt cannot “give” people that mentality. Do you understand?

If we dont have that mentality, your way isnt gonna make everyone rich, and my way isnt gonna make everyone rich.

Your way will eventually lead to chaos. My way at least gives a chance to the few people who DO give a shit.


The immigrant mindset is great yet you dont want to let any more immigrants in...

what a paradox lol.

But i agree there are a lot of bums here and that multiculturism on a grand scale will lead to failure.

[FultzNationRISE]

The immigrant mindset is great yet you dont want to let any more immigrants in...

what a paradox lol.

But i agree there are a lot of bums here and that multiculturism on a grand scale will lead to failure.


I might point out you tend to support the policies that poll most favorably with bums.


So....

[tpols]

I might point out you tend to support the policies that poll most favorably with bums.


So....


negative sir.

I support almost full repeal of welfare (SNAP, section 8 vouchers, and more) in favor of other more beneficial, previously mentioned public services.

So... nope.

You just lump all public infrastructure in with the former on some strawman shit.

[FultzNationRISE]

negative sir.

I support almost full repeal of welfare (SNAP, section 8 vouchers, and more) in favor of other more beneficial, previously mentioned public services.

So... nope.

You just lump all infrastructure in with the former on some strawman shit.

....



Newsom’s shorter California bullet train plan likely to run out of money before completion

The California bullet train project will probably run out of money before it can fulfill Gov. Gavin Newsom’s modest plan to build a high-speed operating segment between Bakersfield and Merced, according to a Times analysis of the state rail authority’s financial records.

https://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-bullet-plan-challenges-20190303-story.html



That's an update from THIS YEAR big boy.

This train already costs taxpayers 90 BILLION and counting. Here's what it looks like so far:


https://www.imageupload.net/upload-image/2019/10/10/urlhttps3A2F2Fca-times.brightspotcdn.jpg

:roll:

Now let's get the FEDERAL government involved making those bad boyz.

What could go wrong!?

:hammertime:

[FultzNationRISE]

Dadda told me earlier today Cali has a big surplus!


How can they be out of money for the Great Big Bullet Train to Paradise??

Just throw some of that surplus money at it :confusedshrug:

[tpols]

cali lmao...

you never fail to surprise me mate.

[FultzNationRISE]

cali lmao...

you never fail to surprise me mate.


"But the federal government will do it even better!"

[Hawker]

No one hates successful people...thats a deflection and cop out. They hate the tax system that is allowing them to evade taxes

We need a wealth gap like Australia whete you live....the middle class in Australia is 2x as wealthy as the middke class in the US. And Australia dorsnt have anywhere near as much wealth.

Australian banks are the most profitable banks in the world according to a couple sources.

~40% of the ASX100 are financial companies.

And in Australia, your effective tax rate for the average worker is going to be 30% + with also a higher cost of living.

[tpols]

Australian banks are the most profitable banks in the world according to a couple sources.

~40% of the ASX100 are financial companies.

And in Australia, your effective tax rate for the average worker is going to be 30% + with also a higher cost of living.


and yet the wealth gap is lower and social infrastructure much better.

and you hopped teams like lebron. :oldlol:

[~primetime~]

Australian banks are the most profitable banks in the world according to a couple sources.

~40% of the ASX100 are financial companies.

And in Australia, your effective tax rate for the average worker is going to be 30% + with also a higher cost of living.
AND... the money is more spread out. Probably because the wealthy actually pay taxes. Looks like the wealthy are taxed 45 cents to the dollar there. Thats a ton.

[FultzNationRISE]

AND... the money is more spread out. Probably because the wealthy actually pay taxes. Looks like the wealthy are taxed 45 cents to the dollar there. Thats a ton.

:facepalm


Australia doesn't have tens of millions of people descended from slaves, whose economic ability has been shackled for most of the country's history.

Nor tens of millions of illegal laborers who don't even speak the national language and pick fruit for less than minimum wage.

And probably fewer Natives who've been given reservation land and welfare checks, and have the highest rates of alcoholism, depression and suicide.


Wtf do you THINK there's a massive statistical wealth gap in the US?

Wtf are you talking about comparing our wealth gap with AUSTRALIA, on some "its bczsz of teh taxesses!!!! dur durr durrrr"


Do not compare the USA wealth gap with any other country, as if it's apples to apples.


STOP.

[qrich]

The immigrant mindset is great yet you dont want to let any more immigrants in...

what a paradox lol.




Care to quote on that?

Not wanting illegals isn't the same as not wanting immigrants.

[~primetime~]

Im comparing the middle classes....WHITE PEOPLE

And our businesses (where the middle class works) produce WAY more wealth than theirs

[RRR3]

:facepalm


Australia doesn't have tens of millions of people descended from slaves, whose economic ability has been shackled for most of the country's history.

Nor tens of millions of illegal laborers who don't even speak the national language and pick fruit for less than minimum wage.

And probably fewer Natives who've been given reservation land and welfare checks, and have the highest rates of alcoholism, depression and suicide.


Wtf do you THINK there's a massive statistical wealth gap in the US?

Wtf are you talking about comparing our wealth gap with AUSTRALIA, on some "its bczsz of teh taxesses!!!! dur durr durrrr"


Do not compare the USA wealth gap with any other country, as if it's apples to apples.


STOP.
Holy shit you’re so close to getting it.

[FultzNationRISE]

Im comparing the middle classes....WHITE PEOPLE

And our businesses (where the middle class works) produce WAY more wealth than theirs


Do you have data on the wealth gap exclusively between American whites?

I'm legitimately curious, I've not seen any info on it. Of course it's still going to be statistically significant, but I'm curious exactly what it looks like, and how it differs from the gap among the nation as a whole.

[FultzNationRISE]

Holy shit you’re so close to getting it.


Uhh, nobody disagrees on the fact that minorities are the poorest groups in America. There's nothing that "youve got" that other people haven't caught onto yet.

Your act of needing to be their appointed rescuer is what intelligent people disagree with. The laws have been changed and the rights have been equalized. I want to see them make it as much as anyone. That doesnt mean the correct SOLUTION is to let you decide whose money you personally wanna fling around (via government bureaucrats) to people of your choosing.

The market is open to everyone now. Compete, produce, earn.

The only reason you need to play rescuer is because otherwise nobody gives a shit about you. That's a personal problem, not one that should be sucked into our objective political process like a duck into a jet engine.

[Hawker]

AND... the money is more spread out. Probably because the wealthy actually pay taxes. Looks like the wealthy are taxed 45 cents to the dollar there. Thats a ton.

So you're ok with increasing taxes on the middle class?

Are you also ok with highly restrictive immigration?

Democrats aren't increasing taxes on the middle class and they aren't going to make immigration more restrictive.

Another to add - they don't denigrate and look down on tradesmen over there whereas in America working a job that requires some kind of hard labor is "a failure" so you must "go to college."

Australians bitch and moan about the rich not paying taxes as well. :oldlol:

[Hawker]

and yet the wealth gap is lower and social infrastructure much better.

and you hopped teams like lebron. :oldlol:

Monocultural society. Small population. Better social cohesion.

Why is wealth gap an issue anyway? It's actually a falsehood the middle class has gotten smaller because individuals are becoming poorer. More people became rich and moved out of the middle class.

I went over there for a job opportunity not for "free" healthcare - with that said Australia has a massive tall poppy syndrome which seems to be developing a bit in the US based on this thread.

The culture is definitely better over there and enforcement of assimiulation, integration and general decent social behavior is vastly present there. You're an imbecile if you don't think that matters.

[MaxFly]

Ask the prime ministers of scandinavian countries who laugh when you call their countries socialist.


Scandinavian countries have a steep progressive tax on income with pretty high rates kicking in earlier. Republicans tend to frame that model as socialist and wealth redistribution.

[MaxFly]

:facepalm

Australia doesn't have tens of millions of people descended from slaves, whose economic ability has been shackled for most of the country's history.


To hear some people tell it, efforts to get those individuals on an even footing with their fellow citizens is racist. :confusedshrug:

[Hawker]

Scandinavian countries have a steep progressive tax on income with pretty high rates kicking in earlier. Republicans tend to frame that model as socialist and wealth redistribution.

No shit dude. Tell that to the democrats who refer to those countries as socialist. You can’t be this obtuse to think democrats arent calling those countries socialist.

They are responding to Bernie. Is he a republican?

[FultzNationRISE]

To hear some people tell it, efforts to get those individuals on an even footing with their fellow citizens is racist. :confusedshrug:


The government is not supposed to be discriminatory.

The government was inappropriately discriminatory against blacks and others in the past.

The question is do you believe the solution now is for the government to be discriminatory toward whites today, as a means of compensation? When none of the whites today, participated in the discrimination of the past.

Do you believe that’s a recipe for social harmony and cooperation? Simply discriminating a new group instead of the old group? Reminds me of Hitler’s justifications for jewish persecution. In the middle ages Jews had exclusive legal rights to money lending, alcohol production, and various other lucrative industries. I suppose you think this justifies Hitler putting a cap on their attendance at Univeristy and in certain professions in Nazi Germany. They were too successful already! It wasnt fair!

It’s literally the exact same thing bud.

We’ve got endless charities dedicated to people in need. Every single multi million Dollar earning athlete in the last 30 years has his own “foundation.” How many BILLIONS in total have been donated to these causes? :confusedshrug:

But, if you think the healthy solution is to have a couple hundred people in Washington play Decider on which discrimination is “okay” today, and you dont think that’s a recipe for further division and resentment, well....

Dunno what to say.

To me it sounds like a conclusion based more on emotion and guilt and some weird social need to placate and grovel in the interest of approval, rather than anything rational.

But that’s just my opinion, at any rate.

[MaxFly]

The government is not supposed to be discriminatory.

The government was inappropriately discriminatory against blacks and others in the past.

The question is do you believe the solution now is for the government to be discriminatory toward whites today, as a means of compensation? When none of the whites today, participated in the discrimination of the past.


And that's the crux of the debate. For instance, most African Americans were barred from taking advantage of FHA loans and GI Bill provisions. In fact, racially restrictive covenants and redlining prevented them from moving into wealthier neighborhoods even when they could afford it and from accessing certain services and financing in the neighborhoods to which they were restricted. Is it discriminatory to give them delayed access to opportunities and benefits that they were previously barred from receiving due to racism. Is it racist? Some say it is, even while acknowledging the circumstances that have led to the current paradigm.

[FultzNationRISE]

And that's the crux of the debate. For instance, most African Americans were barred from taking advantage of FHA loans and GI Bill provisions. In fact, racially restrictive covenants and redlining prevented them from moving into wealthier neighborhoods even when they could afford it and from accessing certain services and financing in the neighborhoods to which they were restricted. Is it discriminatory to give them delayed access to opportunities and benefits that they were previously barred from receiving due to racism. Is it racist? Some say it is, even while acknowledging the circumstances that have led to the current paradigm.


Depends what you mean by ‘delayed access.’

Reparations to their descendants? Look if you can calculate an actual dollar figure amount that black soldiers would have been owed if theyd had the same access to payment as whites, and other specific, tangible losses due to discrimination, I’m not against doling that out. I cant imagine it amounts to anything crazy significant, even with interest, but in that case I say sure. A judgement in favor of a deceased person would go to their inheritors anyway, so that’s fine.

Im not in favor of calculating some “theoretical cost of slavery” because that will be massively divisive and counter productive, when there are billions going into charities that are SUPPOSEDLY helping disadvantaged people of color already.

In terms of things like admissions and access to programs TODAY, then of course it is discrimination by definition to maintain quotas, double standards, etc etc. Private institutions should definitely be allowed to do what they want, in either direction. The government should not.

IMO.

[MaxFly]

No shit dude. Tell that to the democrats who refer to those countries as socialist. You can’t be this obtuse to think democrats arent calling those countries socialist.

They are responding to Bernie. Is he a republican?

Yeah, that's a longstanding talking point that some Democrats have latched on to, originating with Republicans.

Also, calm down. No one is attacking you. You're too quick to strike out. Be easy.

[MaxFly]

[QUOTE=FultzNationRISE]Depends what you mean by

[FultzNationRISE]

You'd also have to take into account denied employment opportunities that minority individuals at the time were otherwise qualified for... denied promotions... denied financial loans and other financial and investment opportunities... denied housing purchases... denied educational opportunities... all due to their race.

Sounds like a considerable number of people think it is racist or discriminatory to address that history and even attempt some form of remediation. And we're not even taking into account families that made their fortunes from slave labor.

As you said, "tens of millions of people descended from slaves, whose economic ability has been shackled for most of the country's history."[/B]


No, I wouldnt. I dont believe it is productive to ask bureaucrats to start dishing out payments based on whatever theoretical calculations Congress comes up with.

It’s an unfortunate history but a lot of things in history are unfortunate. That doesnt mean we need to waste time fighting over them today. People hired by the government and not paid for their service based on color, should definitely be remunerated posthumously. That’s a contract on the books that can be tangibly corrected.

If today’s African Americans want to sue people in present day Gambia because this guys ancestors sold that guys ancestors, should we have the UN mediate some international lawsuits?

Moreover, billions and billions and billions have already been spent, from both charity and the government, on minority poverty. How do you expect “reparations” to fix what every other program has failed to?

Are you going to spend time paying reparations to Italians, Jews etc who for decades saw “need not apply” signs in windows?

We agree America’s wealth imbalance is a result of history. We dont agree, apparently, that pompous, corrupt Washington bureaucrats have a right to decide on behalf of everyone who’s on the hook for history.

[MaxFly]

[QUOTE=FultzNationRISE]No, I wouldnt. I dont believe it is productive to ask bureaucrats to start dishing out payments based on whatever theoretical calculations Congress comes up with.

It

[FultzNationRISE]

So then there is no remediation for, as you described, "tens of millions of people descended from slaves, whose economic ability has been shackled for most of the country's history." Remember, we're talking about government mandated, government enforced discrimination. Many seem to believe that something like Affirmative Action is a step too far in addressing the inequality stemming from those discriminatory policies.

So the question remains, how do we, as a nation, mitigate the effects of those past policies on the descendants of slaves and those "shackled" by Jim Crow and other racists policies?


You avoided explaining why you believe reparations will have an impact suddenly, when billions upon billions in charity and govt entitlements has done little.


And no, I dont believe Hitler’s approach of numerous clauses (affirmative action) ultimately leads to improved social harmony.

[egokiller]

If you can

[FultzNationRISE]

[QUOTE=egokiller]If you can

[MaxFly]

[QUOTE=FultzNationRISE]You avoided explaining why you believe reparations will have an impact suddenly, when billions upon billions in charity and govt entitlements has done little.


And no, I dont believe Hitler

[Kblaze8855]

To hear some people tell it, efforts to get those individuals on an even footing with their fellow citizens is racist.


Whats weird to me is that people will deny that having generations denied an education or property rights doesnt mean current people have it harder. Even when its someone like me who says its no excuse not to try and that leaning on it to justify laziness is destructive. Nobody has ever heard me say black people(or other classes historically held back in this and other countries) cant get ahead. Its just....as a matter of fact....a worse place to start. My generation is the first who even went to the same schools as whites in the south. My mom was in segregated schools. My grandfather lived too far from a school that allowed blacks after he was about 8. The black "school" was sunday school which would do a little math on top of bible study and helping kids read. But it wasnt just....a straight school with normal teachers. My grandma had to finish teaching him to read after they were married.

Anyone who cant acknowledge that such a situation makes for less educated and wealthy beginnings for the current few generations is just being delusional. You dont have to let that fact hold you back in any way. But people get offended when you just....state the obvious.

I dont know that AA is any kind of solution but anyone taking a good look at it has to admit that anywhere an entire people are denied rights and an education....its gonna take a while to catch up to a people who had the opportunity for generational wealth and knowledge to accumulate. Nobody black from a generation before mine had anything close to a fair shake.

Plenty still made something of themselves...but cmon. Being black in 1946 Alabama? Obviously....you have some disadvantages which put you in worse average position to set your children up for success. But...there are some people who legit dont believe thats the case.

I wish these people could have seen the south in the 80s....

Having seen it I cant imagine it in like...1936.

Anyway....

The tax system is obviously too complicated. And its easy to mislead people who dont look into it too far. There are billionaires who have virtually no income if they dont cash it out. If you pull out 100 million for day to day shit once you already own all you ever dreamed how many years would that last? You dont keep paying taxes on it once its in the bank account. And with billionaires doing the trump method of claiming losses for years after a big decline that doesnt really hurt their style of life? If a billionaire loses 4 billion dollars in worth and goes from 10 to 6 that loss can help avoid cap gains taxes for quite a while....so they can afford to pull out more cash they arent fully taxed on.

Some of these things arent as simple as assigning a tax rate. An accountant on the level these guys deal with...they will find a way to minimize what their clients pay. If the middle class took advantage of the tricks as well they would lower their taxes too. But it costs to do anything well. A billionaire is gonna have way better records, people to apply the law in their favor, and so on.

Send Mark Cuban to H&R Block he probably pays more taxes than he does when some guy who looks like the Monopoly Man finishes 3 months of cutting every corner in the book on his behalf. Normal people taxes are done in 20 minutes....less maybe. Imagine the man hours put into filing Jeff Bezos taxes. There must be a firm of accountants on top of it every second of the year. They probably take a 2 week vacation the day they file and come back and start the process over. It must be constant vigilance. A guy out here buying companies, funding research, building a space program, giving out charity and political donations....

You know hes not keeping up with it. Theres a team. A team full of people who themselves have teams of people supporting them.

His taxes are just done better than yours or mine. Make his rate whatever you want. Hes not gonna end up paying that number. Like I said...he literally...has a personally funded space program. His accounts arent seen to by any geek off the street. Whoever the best in the world is...either he hired them...or he hired someone who can get them on the phone when they say its about the Bezos account.

Hard to remove the advantage of good people.

I bet a normal up the street millionaire cant even get whoever does Bezos, Gates, and the like taxes to take a meeting. You might get in the door at his firm but you cant get...the guy. How rich do you think you need to be to get the guy who runs the law firm that does billionaire taxes to meet you for lunch to talk about your accounts?

Theres a reason that guy does Jerry Jones taxes and the girl at H&R block does them for people working at Target.

[Jasper]

https://www.smh.com.au/business/the-economy/for-first-time-ever-us-billionaires-pay-lower-tax-rate-than-workers-20191009-p52yx4.html

that's how the trumptards want it...

[FultzNationRISE]

I'm talking about Affirmative Action, not reparations.


Right. That was Hitler’s approach. It was called “numerous clauses”. Jewish attendance at University was limited by law, jewish employment in certain industries was limited by law. The remaining positions had to be given to “native Germans” because Jews were believed to be over-represented in these fields. There was too much wealth disparity, the government decided to step in and take sides. Bend the law toward one group rather than another, to “even the playing field.” Because history made it okay.

Eventually it culminated in Kristallnacht, when the government allowed jewish homes, businesses, and synogogues to be smashed into and pillaged. But it wasnt a big deal because the poorer native Germans had been historically handicapped financially, relative to the jewish protected class. Jews were like the 1%, ya know? So it was fair for the government to treat them differently and decide when the rules apply and when they dont.


Im surprised you either didn't know that, or believe such policies to be good for America.