is College the biggest scam in the states?

[Vino24]

they are constantly telling the youth you have to go to college to have a career. This has been going on the past 20 years. Thoughts?

[scuzzy]

If i'm having surgery done on my tooth or on my liver I sure as hell hope the dentest/surgeon went through a highly strict collegiate program prior

College to be a camp counselour or pharm technician though? Nah

2 year Associates degree even at a community college is doable for many decent careers

[Vino24]

If i'm having surgery done on my tooth or on my liver I sure as hell hope the dentest/surgeon went through a highly strict collegiate program prior

College to be a camp counselour or pharm technician though? Nah

2 year Associates degree even at a community college is doable for many decent careers
Well yeah there are no ways around that with medical/engineering/law careers. They have to go to school. But for people going to school strictly to make more money without a passion dream field there are much better alternatives than starting a career in 10's of thousands of dollars in debt

[scuzzy]

Well yeah there are no ways around that with medical/engineering/law careers. They have to go to school. But for people going to school strictly to make more money without a passion dream field there are much better alternatives than starting a career in 10's of thousands of dollars in debt
The problem even with a bachelors though is many want 4-5* jobs want mandatory experience to get hired, which means either interning part time throughout college or shacking back at home with mom/pops even after college until you build resume.

High schools don't really prepare you for college. Hell they don't even prepare you for SAT/ACT's

US education is just wack.

It's all fake it until you make it

[Lakers Legend#32]

Only Trump's poorly educated base thinks college is a scam.

[RoseCity07]

Getting a college education isn't a scam it's the cost that is the scam. I'm in engineering school and just paid $2700 cash for 10 credits.

Ridiculous. The problem is that students get grants and loans so school just raised prices. It sucks. I wish the government would step in an regulate prices. School is outrageously priced. I'd rather just get the books and teach myself. I shouldn't have to attend useless lectures.

I learned Calculus I and II on youtube lol. Almost any subject can be leared on youtube and with the right pdfs.

[Hawker]

Getting a college education isn't a scam it's the cost that is the scam. I'm in engineering school and just paid $2700 cash for 10 credits.

Ridiculous. The problem is that students get grants and loans so school just raised prices. It sucks. I wish the government would step in an regulate prices. School is outrageously priced. I'd rather just get the books and teach myself. I shouldn't have to attend useless lectures.

I learned Calculus I and II on youtube lol. Almost any subject can be leared on youtube and with the right pdfs.

Where are the students getting the grants and loans for school from the first place? Yet you want the government to regulate prices? :oldlol:

College isn't a scam for engineering but in general, college is absolutely a scam.

[DaHeezy]

College is an asset if you're looking at a particular skillet to master.
Ultimately networking gets you farther. Being an entrepreneur who's got a large networking system and a savy to communicate requires little to no college and no student loan debt to set them back.

I have done everything I've done in business without going to a prestigious university. And I'm more successful than anyone I know who has. No student debt. Gained experience. Learned business. Ultimately ran my own.

Realtors, brokers, business owners....all are networking over education. Only education required is certifications that can be done in days for a few hundred dollars.

[jstern]

That past 20 years? How old are you? 18. It's a legit question, not making fun.

Life goes back beyond 20 years ago. The youth have always been told that they should go to college. It's not like doctors and dentist all had high school diplomas, and then 20 years ago...

[RoseCity07]

Where are the students getting the grants and loans for school from the first place? Yet you want the government to regulate prices? :oldlol:

College isn't a scam for engineering but in general, college is absolutely a scam.

Yes, the government is giving out the money. They should probably stop doing that or have strings attached to the money. Having an educated population is important. It isn't a great thing when all that interest is going to banks.

Federal Pell Grants helped me a lot. Really. But school is just insanely overpriced for what these school actually provide. The lecture method is so outdated. Online lectures are superior because you just find the best possible one and can replay it 100 times. Why do I need some unethusiastic professor putting me to sleep for 4 hours a week?

By the way. Engineering education can be a bit of scam. All my texts I found in free PDF but the Portland State bookstore literally wants 200 for each text. Even the professors are telling students just fine any book close to the new edition and they will post the homework problems from their copy.

[CelticBaller]

On average, people who graduate with a bachelors degree make more than those who don’t

So no, it’s not a scam. Schools push college degrees because they do get you a better job. The scam is these liberal arts schools having these expensive ass programs like drama or arts that do not guarantee you a good paying job

[ItsMillerTime]

Certain colleges are most definitely scams.

[egokiller]

Stop choosing majors like marine biology or liberal arts and then you’ll actually find a job. Not good at math, physics, chemistry, or programming languages?

Better learn to get good because that’s where the respect is at.

[Wally450]

The amount of people I talk to who are 40+ thousand in debt while they work at a grocery store is waaaayy too high.

Then the college has the balls to call you and ask for donations. :lol

[AlternativeAcc.]

Stop choosing majors like marine biology or liberal arts and then you’ll actually find a job. Not good at math, physics, chemistry, or programming languages?

Better learn to get good because that’s where the respect is at.
Pretty much this

I'd add marketing/advertising/sales to the list though. Companies with great technology but poor marketing still fail, whereas companies with great marketing and average technology succeed

[red1]

do NOT get an arts degree. I repeat DO NOT BOTHER SPENDING A CENT ON AN ARTS DEGREE. you're not going to become a lawyer and you're not going to become a psychologist - you probably don't want that anyways.



you are very welcome for the free advice.

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

Don't know if it's the "biggest scam" but yes, most universities are dangerous to people spiritually (men hanging out with women too much leads to no good , and getting a degree sometimes fills people up with pride, some of the professors mock religion, women lose their bashfulness,) morally (liberalism corrupts the mind), intellectually (someone with sustained concentration and good reading habits could probably outdo a college student, and someone with sharp observational skills and XP in the real world can also outdo a college student), and financially (self-explanatory) and a person can attain the knowledge from other sources and can sift through the bogus pre-reqs.

Highly recommended against unless, as previously mentioned in this thread, someone is adamant and focused on pursuing medicine, engineering, STEM, law etc.

[rawimpact]

It's easy... choose a career that you feel you will enjoy AND be able make out a living. The whole idea of going to school because you enjoy doing whatever it is, is just not enough to cut it.

Most Asians will priorities salary/prestige over personal enjoyment/satisfaction, but the other way around is just as fine as long as both categories are considered when exploring a career.

Jefferson is right, school does have a bias and can mold one's beliefs, especially political leaning. But school, especially schools of medicine, mathematics etc. also teaches one to self-think, promote exploration of alternative views and most importantly to question popular beliefs.

[HylianNightmare]

Trade schools

[Rocket]

Stop choosing majors like marine biology or liberal arts and then you’ll actually find a job. Not good at math, physics, chemistry, or programming languages?

Better learn to get good because that’s where the respect is at.

Chemistry has supported me QUITE nicely the last 28 years although my job has morphed into being a QA Manager so I rarely use the chemistry these days. I still have laboratories in my department but I have not managed the day to day in a lab in quite some time. I now manage the people who run the labs.

[Rooster]

Don't know if it's the "biggest scam" but yes, most universities are dangerous to people spiritually (men hanging out with women too much leads to no good , and getting a degree sometimes fills people up with pride, some of the professors mock religion, women lose their bashfulness,) morally (liberalism corrupts the mind), intellectually (someone with sustained concentration and good reading habits could probably outdo a college student, and someone with sharp observational skills and XP in the real world can also outdo a college student), and financially (self-explanatory) and a person can attain the knowledge from other sources and can sift through the bogus pre-reqs.

Highly recommended against unless, as previously mentioned in this thread, someone is adamant and focused on pursuing medicine, engineering, STEM, law etc.


Lol coping analogy. Being educated and having strong moral values are not mutually exclusive. Moral values should be taught on your formative years by your parents or whoever raise you and around you. Formal education not only add knowledge but also reinforce those moral values. The underrated aspect of education is your interaction with different people (fellow students, faculties etc) with different knowledge , opposite ideas, cultures, interest etc . Some will inspire you, some will have a great influence, some will fill you up spiritually and sexually ( it depends on what you looking for) and some you will learn new things and think things differently. At the end after you learned the ability to hold opposite ideas at the same time and still function , then youÂ’re ready for the next level.

[rawimpact]

Lol coping analogy. Being educated and having strong moral values are not mutually exclusive. Moral values should be taught on your formative years by your parents or whoever raise you and around you. Formal education not only add knowledge but also reinforce those moral values. The underrated aspect of education is your interaction with different people (fellow students, faculties etc) with different knowledge , opposite ideas, cultures, interest etc . Some will inspire you, some will have a great influence, some will fill you up spiritually and sexually ( it depends on what you looking for) and some you will learn new things and think things differently. At the end after you learned the ability to hold opposite ideas at the same time and still function , then youÂ’re ready for the next level.

Are you suggesting that people who are not religious or do not believe in Allahu can end up being good, productive members of society? Dubious at best...

[Rooster]

Are you suggesting that people who are not religious or do not believe in Allahu can end up being good, productive members of society? Dubious at best...

Lol with assumptions. Going to college does not prohibit you to practice any religion or it means you gonna abandon your own religion. Buddhist do not believe in any god though they treat Buddha as a deity are productive.

[Derka]

Nothing about college is a scam. We get to choose the careers we want in this country and if you choose a career that requires college, by proxy you chose college. No one scammed you into it.

I work in municipal government and there's nothing about my job that requires the political science degree I hold. I certainly learned life skills in college as a polisci major that have benefited me professionally, but college wasn't required to learn those skills.

[bladefd]

Don't know if it's the "biggest scam" but yes, most universities are dangerous to people spiritually (men hanging out with women too much leads to no good , and getting a degree sometimes fills people up with pride, some of the professors mock religion, women lose their bashfulness,) morally (liberalism corrupts the mind), intellectually (someone with sustained concentration and good reading habits could probably outdo a college student, and someone with sharp observational skills and XP in the real world can also outdo a college student), and financially (self-explanatory) and a person can attain the knowledge from other sources and can sift through the bogus pre-reqs.

Highly recommended against unless, as previously mentioned in this thread, someone is adamant and focused on pursuing medicine, engineering, STEM, law etc.

Bold portions are utter nonsense or irrelevant to anything. Rest I agree with.

[Hawker]

Don't know if it's the "biggest scam" but yes, most universities are dangerous to people spiritually (men hanging out with women too much leads to no good , and getting a degree sometimes fills people up with pride, some of the professors mock religion, women lose their bashfulness,) morally (liberalism corrupts the mind), intellectually (someone with sustained concentration and good reading habits could probably outdo a college student, and someone with sharp observational skills and XP in the real world can also outdo a college student), and financially (self-explanatory) and a person can attain the knowledge from other sources and can sift through the bogus pre-reqs.

Highly recommended against unless, as previously mentioned in this thread, someone is adamant and focused on pursuing medicine, engineering, STEM, law etc.

Agree with everything but the "men hanging out with women too much." :lol

College is such a bubble. I hope college sports die over the next 5-10 years and hopefully COVID accelerates it.

[Gougou]

Well they are a requirement in order to get employeed... still it is...

STEM majors are the best majors if you want to just graduate and then find a work immediately, it is still very competitive but it gives better chance than other degrees since they are the most demanding.

Depend on the art degree, some art degrees like humanity, child education, history... those ones are huge scams, but yeah the majority of them won't give you the best returns unless you are very talented in the field you work in.

But yeah honestly 40k for a degree is scammy as hell...

[rawimpact]

Bold portions are utter nonsense or irrelevant to anything. Rest I agree with.

He's not speaking from experiencing because he's never been around females long enough. Even if he has the only thing he gets to see is their eyes... so to give advise suggesting hanging out with females = no good is ridiculous, at least on a personal basis. He's just going off of what his virgin peers and religion have told him. Nothing wrong with that, but don't go giving advise to others based on unfounded bullshit.

[highwhey]

He's not speaking from experiencing because he's never been around females long enough. Even if he has the only thing he gets to see is their eyes... so to give advise suggesting hanging out with females = no good is ridiculous, at least on a personal basis. He's just going off of what his virgin peers and religion have told him. Nothing wrong with that, but don't go giving advise to others based on unfounded bullshit.

let's be honest, you emit small dick energy through all your posts, so stop projecting pal.

[rawimpact]

let's be honest, you emit small dick energy through all your posts, so stop projecting pal.

This idiot projects in a the very same sentence he tells me not to. Go to school... you may have a chance to get out of the laboring class and not be a hypocrite within the same sentence.

Or you can continue being a fatass that has spent the last 12 years here posting away religiously. Your call and loss of time either way... doesn't affect me much.

[highwhey]

This idiot projects in a the very same sentence he tells me not to. Go to school... you may have a chance to get out of the laboring class and not be a hypocrite within the same sentence.

Or you can continue being a fatass that has spent the last 12 years here posting away religiously. Your call and loss of time either way... doesn't affect me much.

looks like i struck a nerve.

https://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/5I5s8.png

[FreezingTsmoove]

The problem is most of the youth go to college just to pass classes, they dont care about learning the material

[Axe]

The problem is most of the youth go to college just to pass classes, they dont care about learning the material
So true, they just came to finish and earn their diplomas. But once they're asked about what they learned in their courses, they barely know anything unless they're enthusiastic about them.

[Hawker]

So true, they just came to finish and earn their diplomas. But once they're asked about what they learned in their courses, they barely know anything unless they're enthusiastic about them.

That was me. I needed the degree to get the job.

Too many classes and too much work to really understand the material for me so did what I had to do to pass the classes, get my degree and get a job.

[Axe]

That was me. I needed the degree to get the job.

Too many classes and too much work to really understand the material for me so did what I had to do to pass the classes, get my degree and get a job.
Lol then there are the ones who had to shift courses once they realized that they didn't like it or wanted something more than that. As a result? They had to start all over again. :oldlol:

[Nanners]

College wasnt always a scam, but it definitely is now. I loved my time in college, I spent many years at school and I have more than one degree from it... but if I was a HS senior again today, I doubt I would go to college at all.

[CelticBaller]

The problem is most of the youth go to college just to pass classes, they dont care about learning the material

Most of the required stuff you need they train it on the job. For example a finance/accounting major will only need to know basic terms that are drilled into your head for 4 years straight because they come up in almost every class


When I was an intern I was clueless as ****, after I graduated and was a year into the job when I met other interns I realized that that is the norm. Employers don’t look for experts, they look for people who can pass classes with high grades because it shows you can complete a task efficiently

[Norcaliblunt]

Jobs that require a degree should just have their own school you have to pay to go to. Or better yet just not require a stupid degree and fcking train you for the position like they are gonna do anyway.

[Vino24]

This brings up another point. How difficult would it be to just lie about education on a resume? If you have an extensive resume you could easily blend that shit in lol and a ton of places don’t even check it

[FultzNationRISE]

Jobs that require a degree should just have their own school you have to pay to go to. Or better yet just not require a stupid degree and fcking train you for the position like they are gonna do anyway.

Ive been saying exactly this for a decade.

But academia lobbies the government and kids fresh out of high school just dont know any better. Altho to be fair, the average parent is also a social zombie who doesnt know any better either.

It’s the perfect scam.

[Rooster]

This brings up another point. How difficult would it be to just lie about education on a resume? If you have an extensive resume you could easily blend that shit in lol and a ton of places don’t even check it

Going back to quote , you can fool some all the time but you can not fool everyone all the time. If you get caught, you just wasted your extensive resume. In this world where social media and internet connect people everywhere, I doubt the corporate ladder will give you that benefit of the doubt with that reputation .

[DonaldHearn]

What's so shocking?

Did ANYBODY think that college admissions (*especially* to schools considered "desirable" by the wealthy) were strictly merit-based decisions?

essayhave (https://www.essay-have.com/)

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

He's not speaking from experiencing because he's never been around females long enough. Even if he has the only thing he gets to see is their eyes... so to give advise suggesting hanging out with females = no good is ridiculous, at least on a personal basis. He's just going off of what his virgin peers and religion have told him. Nothing wrong with that, but don't go giving advise to others based on unfounded bullshit.

Lol. In my late teens, early 20's I was a playful, funny, sports-loving, well built guy who didn't take life seriously.

So wrong as usual, rawimpact.

I stand by the previous point. Mixing too much with the opposite gender is bad for your heart, soul, and mind. Period. And you don't have to take my word for it. Look at your own people---"**** ****es, get money".. Tesla...Newton the list goes on.

But being married is good.

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

Bold portions are utter nonsense or irrelevant to anything. Rest I agree with.

"Utter nonsense."

So do you, bladefd, a young man born in 2020 in a Western society filled with materialism and ego-driven, carnal-driven desires deny the existence of a soul---a belief held by literally billions of people since the beginning of mankind? Exactly what are your credentials, qualifications, and intellectual accolades that deem you an authority that can deny the soul "as nonsense/irrelevant." Pull them out.

Do you, bladefd, deny that there is a nasty irreverence and disrespectful attitude that comes out of young people that the elderly complain about over and over again?

Do you bladefd, deny that women in general are being masculinized in this day and age and have lost a lot of shyness? Do you bladefd deny that the liberal values in college hurt the family structure BUT ESPECIALLY women and their compassion for children and their ability to snag a husband?

Do you bladefd, deny the tenets of liberalism (be it sexual or moral), that is unrestricted freedom and the emphasis on human rights are hazardous to man's mental welfare and grasp on reality---particularly in the sense of one's own moral responsibility, one's own religious beliefs, one's own's protection of their family, lineage, dignity, and wealth? What's the old saying.."a man at 20 who's not a liberal has no heart and a man at 40 who is not a conservative has no brain?"

Do you deny that spending tens of thousands and perhaps hundreds of thousands can set someone back in life especially if they aren't guaranteed a job in their respective field?

[bladefd]

Lol. In my late teens, early 20's I was a playful, funny, sports-loving, well built guy who didn't take life seriously.

So wrong as usual, rawimpact.

I stand by the previous point. Mixing too much with the opposite gender is bad for your heart, soul, and mind. Period. And you don't have to take my word for it. Look at your own people---"**** ****es, get money".. Tesla...Newton the list goes on.

But being married is good.

So you are no longer playful, funny, sports-loving, well built guy? You need to chill out and stop taking life so seriously. Your problem is you are too religious and losing your mind. If Allah exists, I bet you he enjoys life and smiles more often than you. I bet you he also communicates a lot with the opposite gender (unless you believe there is a Mrs Allah and Mr Allah only talks with men?) You are getting too uptight and afraid to loosen up. To hell with that. Enjoy your life because you only live once. There is no tomorrow, there is no tomorrow.

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

Chemistry has supported me QUITE nicely the last 28 years although my job has morphed into being a QA Manager so I rarely use the chemistry these days. I still have laboratories in my department but I have not managed the day to day in a lab in quite some time. I now manage the people who run the labs.

Chemistry has "supported" you? Really?
Chemistry has power to help you? Chemistry itself is a creation. "Chemistry" has a direct impact on your financial station in life? Is that what you're saying?
One would think after investigating things at a molecular level and witnessing the organization, you'd understand that all of these lifeless things can not function independently.
Then, how on earth are they so well organized. Because they are subject to the Will of The Creator.
And as for your financial station in life, that is because wealth was decreed for you by The Creator. It has nothing to do with chemistry.
Usually we respect our elders, but when they spout of ridiculous things like this--you see why it's hard to take you seriously?



Lol coping analogy. Being educated and having strong moral values are not mutually exclusive. Moral values should be taught on your formative years by your parents or whoever raise you and around you. Formal education not only add knowledge but also reinforce those moral values.

Formal education, which includes gen-eds with liberal thought and liberal professors is directly antithetical to the moral values some hold. Spiritually, college focuses and zones in on cause and effects--but here's the kicker. The truth is----apparent causes have no effects. Every single atom in the entire existence of the universe is subject to the Will of the One Creator.



The underrated aspect of education is your interaction with different people (fellow students, faculties etc) with different knowledge , opposite ideas, cultures, interest etc . Some will inspire you, some will have a great influence, some will fill you up spiritually and sexually ( it depends on what you looking for) and some you will learn new things and think things differently. At the end after you learned the ability to hold opposite ideas at the same time and still function , then youÂ’re ready for the next level

This is easily attainable in teenagehood. I know what you're getting at--being open minded and willing to talk to people. Yes, there's merit to that--but only if they are on the truth to begin with.

[bladefd]

"Utter nonsense."

So do you, bladefd, a young man born in 2020 in a Western society filled with materialism and ego-driven, carnal-driven desires deny the existence of a soul---a belief held by literally billions of people since the beginning of mankind? Exactly what are your credentials, qualifications, and intellectual accolades that deem you an authority that can deny the soul "as nonsense/irrelevant." Pull them out.

Do you, bladefd, deny that there is a nasty irreverence and disrespectful attitude that comes out of young people that the elderly complain about over and over again?

Do you bladefd, deny that women in general are being masculinized in this day and age and have lost a lot of shyness? Do you bladefd deny that the liberal values in college hurt the family structure BUT ESPECIALLY women and their compassion for children and their ability to snag a husband?

Do you bladefd, deny the tenets of liberalism (be it sexual or moral), that is unrestricted freedom and the emphasis on human rights are hazardous to man's mental welfare and grasp on reality---particularly in the sense of one's own moral responsibility, one's own religious beliefs, one's own's protection of their family, lineage, dignity, and wealth? What's the old saying.."a man at 20 who's not a liberal has no heart and a man at 40 who is not a conservative has no brain?"

Do you deny that spending tens of thousands and perhaps hundreds of thousands can set someone back in life especially if they aren't guaranteed a job in their respective field?

There is no evidence of soul. Physics is not compatible with the concept of soul unless if you believe soul is outside the laws of physics/universe?? I can't discount that possibility but I do need evidence. I won't believe in something based on nothing except what some book says. I don't need credentials or qualifications to hold that belief.

Young people do tend to be arrogant and possibly disrespectful sometimes. It comes with the territory when you lack in the maturity department. I don't deny it so what point are you trying to make here?

Women lost shyness because they are allowed to be themselves. In conservative cultures like in Islam, women are considered secondary, almost subhuman. They don't have a say in things and are relegated to being in the corner and standing there not allowed to express themselves or think out loud. Get that ignorant nonsense outta here. It is sexist and ignorant.

Which liberal values hurt family structure and how so? Be more specific instead of playing around with vagueness.

I have no issues with unrestricted freedom but there are consequences so it's not completely free to do whatever the hell you want. You have a problem with emphasis on human rights?? How could someone have a problem with human rights?

You sound like you have no heart and no brain so idk what to tell you, Jefferson.

Don't spend money you don't have. I personally have been fortunate enough to avoid being in debt, but I am not very materialistic. I guess too many Americans are not like me and tend to be materialistic people. It's just not me though.

[Shogon]

There is no evidence of soul. Physics is not compatible with the concept of soul unless if you believe soul is outside the laws of physics/universe?? I can't discount that possibility but I do need evidence. I won't believe in something based on nothing except what some book says. I don't need credentials or qualifications to hold that belief.

Young people do tend to be arrogant and possibly disrespectful sometimes. It comes with the territory when you lack in the maturity department. I don't deny it so what point are you trying to make here?

Women lost shyness because they are allowed to be themselves. In conservative cultures like in Islam, women are considered secondary, almost subhuman. They don't have a say in things and are relegated to being in the corner and standing there not allowed to express themselves or think out loud. Get that ignorant nonsense outta here. It is sexist and ignorant.

Which liberal values hurt family structure and how so? Be more specific instead of playing around with vagueness.

I have no issues with unrestricted freedom but there are consequences so it's not completely free to do whatever the hell you want. You have a problem with emphasis on human rights?? How could someone have a problem with human rights?

You sound like you have no heart and no brain so idk what to tell you, Jefferson.

Don't spend money you don't have. I personally have been fortunate enough to avoid being in debt, but I am not very materialistic. I guess too many Americans are not like me and tend to be materialistic people. It's just not me though.

A soul is 100% a real thing, whether there is more to this life or not.

And the reason you can know this to be true is because if you create an identical clone of someone who has all of that person's memories stored in their head up to the very moment of cloning... well... you know that person is just a clone. The person's soul is in the original body and a new soul has been born.

This is why even if you can upload your consciousness to a computer, you can't live forever. It would just a copy of you, it wouldn't be you.

The only possibility I currently see of your soul continuing on in this life is if... let's say... they replaced a piece of your brain one piece at a time over an undetermined amount of time so that your soul could gradually assimilate the new parts, piece by piece. Then maybe.

[Shogon]

Anyways, yes, college is largely a scam. It's not 100% a scam and for some people it is absolutely necessary. The overwhelming vast majority of professions do not even come close to requiring a college education to execute. We don't need to write essays about it... it's rather simple.

Doctor, lawyer, rocket scientist, etc? Yes, a college education is pretty much necessary for just about anyone going into these types of fields.

Computer programmer, manager, secretary, plumber, 3rd grade teacher? Hardly necessary. A 3rd grade teacher would need a few classes in child psychology and that's about it. College didn't used to be a scam but now it is a massive scam. And do you know why? Because morons passed legislation making it so that anyone can go to college via government guaranteed loans. Absolute scam. Massive, massive scam.

[rawimpact]

I wouldn't be where I am without college or grad school, and my wife would say the same who went on for a post-doc. We both live comfortably... that said I know people who majored in silly subjects and that academic stepping stone was much shorter.

[bladefd]

A soul is 100% a real thing, whether there is more to this life or not.

And the reason you can know this to be true is because if you create an identical clone of someone who has all of that person's memories stored in their head up to the very moment of cloning... well... you know that person is just a clone. The person's soul is in the original body and a new soul has been born.

This is why even if you can upload your consciousness to a computer, you can't live forever. It would just a copy of you, it wouldn't be you.

The only possibility I currently see of your soul continuing on in this life is if... let's say... they replaced a piece of your brain one piece at a time over an undetermined amount of time so that your soul could gradually assimilate the new parts, piece by piece. Then maybe.

That's not a soul. That's your brain being cloned, and our brain contains our mind. Our memories are in our brains. If you clone that brain, the memories will simply transfer over along with the rest of your mind. It has nothing to do with your soul.

Your argument does not prove the existence of soul. It doesn't prove anything whatsoever. When you die, your brain dies and your mind dies. There is no need for anything else. You seem to be confusing 'soul' with 'mind'.

[Shogon]

No, it's a proof that your soul exists because now there are two absolutely indistinguishable and identical in every single way... people... except one... their souls.

[GOBB]

Yes its a scam. Look how many kids are in debt because of college. Its a joke. Only certain professions require college. There are some benefits from going to college but its not worth the price of admission. Pretty screwed up system where you need a college degree for jobs that your degree wasn;t even in.

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

1. You can not call yourself, using your words "an ethical and moral human being," and tell me to enjoy life--when the threat of Hell is very real. That denotes an utter lack of concern for other's welfare.
2. You can not liken Creator to creation. The relationship between God and human being (man or woman) is very different from the relationship between man and woman.
3. There are many things one can not see--abstract things like "knowledge, compassion, integrity, soul" etc. but it's indisputable they are there. Mankind has been given very little knowledge of the soul--but for starters engaging in worship strengthens it, and when one falls asleep, the soul is taken from the body. Scientists themselves will admit the human eye is very finite and limited in scope--and there's more to existence than meets the eye.
4. Conservative cultures do not forbid women from speaking. Women also have an inherent value towards them because they are creations of God--not because of their looks or because of the amount of money they can make (which is the case in irreligious parts of the West) and they are not "subhuman." Shyness/modesty is a very beautiful virtue and it extends from covering yourself up, to not talking about sexual/toilet matters in public, to being secretive, to caring for people's dignity, to hiding one's sins, to not boasting about one's credentials, and many more.
5. I used the wrong term regarding liberal values. It's not liberal values persay--but the following are threats to the family. Feminism--and all that comes with it including the sexual revolution of the 60's and the millions of abortions and all the damage involved in that, LGBT and all the damage and corruption involved with that, drugs/alcohol and all the damage involved with that, the idea of a State having rights over the children and indoctrinating them in public schools is hazardous to a family's welfare, the taking away of the father's rights and the excess rights given to women and children can destroy a family real quick, and many more.
6. Human rights was the wrong term (i typed in a jiffy). Rights without responsibilities was the term I was looking for. And worse yet relative morality and cultural marxism and other offshoots of liberal ideologies.
7. Won't even refute the insult you threw at me----I have a ways to go to grow in knowledge and compassion. But if you honestly think you, blade, are some beacon of intelligence and compassion....then why don't you have a word with Nanners?
8. "Don't spend money you don't have" is good advice, but guess what now with people being EXPECTED to get a Bachelor's just to compete--that's not feasible now is it?

[bladefd]

No, it's a proof that your soul exists because now there are two absolutely indistinguishable and identical in every single way... people... except one... their souls.

How does cloning creating two identical people prove there is a soul in the first place? Are you not understanding the question?

They are different people, certainly, with same memories but existence itself is not soul. Soul is supposed to be this extra-body being almost like a ghost of yourself existing in a separate realm/universe. Physical cloning wouldn't be able to clone that extra-body being because it's not supposed to exist in the physical realm/universe in the first place.

[Shogon]

How does cloning creating two identical people prove there is a soul in the first place? Are you not understanding the question?

They are different people, certainly, with same memories but existence itself is not soul. Soul is supposed to be this extra-body being almost like a ghost of yourself existing in a separate realm/universe. Physical cloning wouldn't be able to clone that extra-body being because it's not supposed to exist in the physical realm/universe in the first place.

You're talking about this physical manifestation aka a ghost aside from the body... I am not.

[bladefd]

1. So you believe it's better to be a coward hiding in a corner and going around yelling condemnation & trying to convert people? I respectfully recommend you find a shrink, man.
2. So Mr Allah is okay communicating with all the women he wants to, but you believe men are not okay communicating with women?
3. Fair enough. There is much not even science knows so I will give you the benefit of the doubt concerning soul
4. Women in Muslim cultures are too often relegated to wearing a burkha and standing idle while the man (either father or husband) does all the talking. Women are expected to cook and care for the children. Even education for women is often frowned upon in these cultures. In cultures in like Arabia, women are not allowed to own land. Wasn't it just a few years ago that women in Saudi Arabia were allowed to drive a car? That's a bridge too far.
So all those 'virtues' you listed only apply to women and not men?
5. I don't mind you being opposed to abortion but LGBT? What's wrong with people being born gay? Homosexuality exists in rest of animal kingdom too. Birds, including penguins, don't choose to be gay, yet it exists.
Drugs/alcohol are using by both liberals and conservative people - maybe liberals try more stuff but it's not a liberal phenomena.
State only has rights over children if the parents are unable to care for them (drugs, child abuse, domestic violence, sexual crimes, etc). What should the state do if some parent is physically beating their child with a belt while drunk regularly and taking out their frustrations on kid? Should they just ignore it? I would agree the women tend to get the benefit of the doubt in rights over kids in divorce cases, and that's often wrong.
6. Rights without responsibilities.. You gotta be more specific.
7. Just throwing the quote back at you. I have ways to go too in intelligence and compassion department. We all do. Liberalism or conservativeness isn't the issue though.
8. People do take loans for college. I don't consider education to be materialism though if that's your drift. Not all bachelors degrees are equal. Some hold more weight than others. Like BS in comp.sci or IT holds a lot more weight than art or history.

[bladefd]

You're talking about this physical manifestation aka a ghost aside from the body... I am not.

What is soul then to you?

[Rooster]

Formal education, which includes gen-eds with liberal thought and liberal professors is directly antithetical to the moral values some hold. Spiritually, college focuses and zones in on cause and effects--but here's the kicker. The truth is----apparent causes have no effects. Every single atom in the entire existence of the universe is subject to the Will of the One Creator.

This is easily attainable in teenagehood. I know what you're getting at--being open minded and willing to talk to people. Yes, there's merit to that--but only if they are on the truth to begin with.


Thats a narrow point of view. Religious leaders are ones that most likely to brainwash children and have the cult following than liberal professors. Liberals professors in contrast to their colleague does not have as much as financial success . They tend to believe that a person who maintains high level of ethics and morality in his life is unlikely to gain as much worldly success as a person who is willing to compromise his morality. History can attest to that on how rich and powerful religious leaders have become and how influence they have in shaping a lot of nation. The unethical and immoral people usually gain more wealth and power in life than the honest and ethical people in general. It goes on the saying that, Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men, even when they exercise influence and not authority.

Teenagehood is about coming of age . You can’t expect everyone to have intellectual conversation when the focus is different. Girls , sports drinking, bullshitting, cars are more common topic. But if you build your work ethic and maintain your excellence academically in high school, you’re most likely to interact with the same group people in college whole building your network. You just have to accept the fact that your own perception is your own reality . If you’re saying whether are telling the truth than that’s on you not them. Once it does not register on your common sense then you know it’s BS even if they telling half truths to manipulate a fact.

[Shogon]

What is soul then to you?

The uniqueness of your consciousness.

Now, if you want to... we can get into the idea that we aren't even what we think we are, and that we don't have free will. Because if you want to make the argument that your consciousness is not unique, you have to arrive at the conclusion that your consciousness is just a result of genetic and environmental factors and that you don't actually have free will. And I wouldn't argue. Because I don't know.

But it would seem to me that it's distinctly possible if not probable that free will does not exist. Certainly not in the way that we think that it does. Therefore, maybe souls don't exist. I don't know, I suppose.

As I see it, however, we have two doors...

Door One... Souls and free will.

Door Two... No souls and no free will.

That seems fairly obvious.

[bladefd]

The uniqueness of your consciousness.

Now, if you want to... we can get into the idea that we aren't even what we think we are, and that we don't have free will. Because if you want to make the argument that your consciousness is not unique, you have to arrive at the conclusion that your consciousness is just a result of genetic and environmental factors and that you don't actually have free will. And I wouldn't argue. Because I don't know.

But it would seem to me that it's distinctly possible if not probable that free will does not exist. Certainly not in the way that we think that it does. Therefore, maybe souls don't exist. I don't know, I suppose.

As I see it, however, we have two doors...

Door One... Souls and free will.

Door Two... No souls and no free will.

That seems fairly obvious.

So by soul, you are referring to consciousness? Just call it consciousness.. Soul typically refers to a metaphysical immortal being essentially that exists inside you ala a spirit that never dies. That's very different from consciousness.

[Cleverness]

Anyways, yes, college is largely a scam. It's not 100% a scam and for some people it is absolutely necessary. The overwhelming vast majority of professions do not even come close to requiring a college education to execute. We don't need to write essays about it... it's rather simple.

Doctor, lawyer, rocket scientist, etc? Yes, a college education is pretty much necessary for just about anyone going into these types of fields.

Computer programmer, manager, secretary, plumber, 3rd grade teacher? Hardly necessary. A 3rd grade teacher would need a few classes in child psychology and that's about it. College didn't used to be a scam but now it is a massive scam. And do you know why? Because morons passed legislation making it so that anyone can go to college via government guaranteed loans. Absolute scam. Massive, massive scam.

Yep. It's mostly an overpriced taxpayer-funded Marxist America-hating indoctrination camp at this point. A net negative. They're all about diversity of skin color, but not diversity of thought. Literally 1.46% of Harvard faculty identify as conservative. https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2020/3/3/faculty-support-warren-president/

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ecn7K8sX0AEV4m1?format=jpg&name=small

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

Thats a narrow point of view. Religious leaders are ones that most likely to brainwash children and have the cult following than liberal professors. Liberals professors in contrast to their colleague does not have as much as financial success . They tend to believe that a person who maintains high level of ethics and morality in his life is unlikely to gain as much worldly success as a person who is willing to compromise his morality. History can attest to that on how rich and powerful religious leaders have become and how influence they have in shaping a lot of nation. The unethical and immoral people usually gain more wealth and power in life than the honest and ethical people in general. It goes on the saying that, Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men, even when they exercise influence and not authority.

http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=9&verse=34



Teenagehood is about coming of age . You can’t expect everyone to have intellectual conversation when the focus is different. Girls , sports drinking, bullshitting, cars are more common topic. But if you build your work ethic and maintain your excellence academically in high school, you’re most likely to interact with the same group people in college whole building your network. You just have to accept the fact that your own perception is your own reality . If you’re saying whether are telling the truth than that’s on you not them. Once it does not register on your common sense then you know it’s BS even if they telling half truths to manipulate a fact.

https://quran.com/6/116

[Rooster]

http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=9&verse=34



https://quran.com/6/116

Sounds good in theory but thereÂ’s no Muslim majority nation that are in top 20 least corrupt country. Case in point, one of the most corrupt is Suharto of Indonesia. He embezzled 15-35 Billion dollars and thatÂ’s why they call him Mr. 30. He get 30 percent cut in all the his countries projects. The book do offer a lot good virtues but if it only make sense if Muslim majority nations follow it accordingly.

[rawimpact]

Sounds good in theory but thereÂ’s no Muslim majority nation that are in top 20 least corrupt country. Case in point, one of the most corrupt is Suharto of Indonesia. He embezzled 15-35 Billion dollars and thatÂ’s why they call him Mr. 30. He get 30 percent cut in all the his countries projects. The book do offer a lot good virtues but if it only make sense if Muslim majority nations follow it accordingly.

Literally first page news on BBC is some lady who said people should wash their hands as suggested in the koran - this was in regards to COVID, and she's now going to be put in jail. Pretty sure this happened in Tunisia