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View Full Version : Dont you hate watching the same plays work over and over?



Kblaze8855
10-14-2019, 06:02 PM
I suppose im only talking to those of you who realize that much of what we see are in fact plays. So the people who think all offenses are *insert superstar* ball can move on.

When you know the offenses a little and see how often the same thing works you watch it and feel like....the coaching.....the players...have to be better on that level.

Of course it isnt that simple...and plays work because of hundreds of reps in practice...but still. I hate when we all know whats coming...and guys dont even fight to prevent it. The best recent example is Dirk on those across the lane screens and guard screens to the elbow.




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You watch it like....how the **** do I know EXACTLY where hes going...but the players let him beat them there?




And that gotdamn guard screen to the elbow....



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Which as you can see is at times contested.....but with a guy like Dirk who doesnt even need to be open...just get to his spot and shoot? Maybe....try to deny him his positioning? After they do it 14 times shouldnt you be able to disrupt it? Guys would often just concede it. Maybe not Bruce Bowen and his dirty elbow tapping while living in your jersey....but most arent gonna try that hard.

And its not like its recent. The same basic plays have worked forever. Pick and roll obviously has no sure counter no matter how many times you see it when a Stockton/Malone, /Price/Daugherty/ or Nash/Amare runs it. And guys like Willis Reed were abusing teams with the same cross/down screens Dirk used 50 years ago....





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But that doesnt make it any less annoying when you see Terry gradually getting into position for the same shot you know they watched happen 6 times in the first half already....then both his and Dirks man are lackadaisical getting to the spot.

I dont know how coaches deal with it. You have to roast people in film for that right? Id be handing out fines. Dirk beats you to that elbow when you know hes going...I need 500 dollars per open jumper.

The Warriors do some of that. A lot of the better coached teams. Again....I know if it were easy to stop someone would have stopped it 50 years ago. But its not too much to want to see some effort when you know what they're doing is it?

Turbo Slayer
10-14-2019, 06:05 PM
Don't really care. Just as long the game is exciting. We gucci. :D

tpols
10-14-2019, 06:17 PM
his shot arc is too high, release point as well, and already a 7 footer... cant stop it. Of course were leaving out all the times he pump faked the shot, got a bite, and then pivoted into something else...which makes defenders hesitate from going all out for a block.

Kblaze8855
10-14-2019, 06:25 PM
Sure you cant stop it. You cant stop anything great players do over and over and over.

But you can adjust and make an effort.

The pick and roll defenses you see get shredded are probably the funniest. The Warriors getting layup after layup on the cavs one of those finals was hilarious.

tpols
10-14-2019, 06:41 PM
Sure you cant stop it. You cant stop anything great players do over and over and over.

But you can adjust and make an effort.

The pick and roll defenses you see get shredded are probably the funniest. The Warriors getting layup after layup on the cavs one of those finals was hilarious.


well when you sell out on a guy (chef) at 30 feet with double teams, and give his teammates a halfcourt fastbreak...

thats how it is. pick your poison, leave the star open and get avalanched, or take your chances with his teammates.

FKAri
10-14-2019, 06:44 PM
Teams don't have the time or the willingness to really stop it in the regular season. They understandably want to focus more on their play on a more general level.

Kblaze8855
10-14-2019, 07:02 PM
I wonder if the NBA had an NFL like schedule where you could spend a week preparing for every team you play if some of these pet plays wouldn’t work anymore. I suspect not because a player can defend a guy his entire career and fall for the same moves. Steve Smiths fake spin was still working when he was on the bobcats And you know almost everybody in the NBA knew he was going to do it.

Loco 50
10-14-2019, 07:44 PM
[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]I wonder if the NBA had an NFL like schedule where you could spend a week preparing for every team you play if some of these pet plays wouldn

Kblaze8855
10-14-2019, 07:54 PM
The few people who can disrupt things really make other people look bad. Ever watch Joakim Noah and Hinrich play the pick and roll? They would absolutely blow them up. Gary Payton, NateMcMillan, and Derek McKee would have Stockton and Malone in shackles now and then. Can

DoctorP
10-14-2019, 07:57 PM
creativity is for the playoffs. till then, yeah it's robotic but so are most tasks.

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bison
10-14-2019, 10:13 PM
I could see being annoyed by this if these plays were executed perfectly 100% of the time, but they

ILLsmak
10-14-2019, 11:03 PM
They run plays?

The thing I hate is watching people give up offensive rebounds over and over.

-Smak

Kblaze8855
10-15-2019, 06:06 AM
[QUOTE=bison]I could see being annoyed by this if these plays were executed perfectly 100% of the time, but they

3ball
10-15-2019, 11:53 AM
I suppose im only talking to those of you who realize that much of what we see are in fact plays. So the people who think all offenses are *insert superstar* ball can move on.

When you know the offenses a little and see how often the same thing works you watch it and feel like....the coaching.....the players...have to be better on that level.

Of course it isnt that simple...and plays work because of hundreds of reps in practice...but still. I hate when we all know whats coming...and guys dont even fight to prevent it. The best recent example is Dirk on those across the lane screens and guard screens to the elbow.



https://thumbs.gfycat.com/CooperativeImpeccableJaguar-size_restricted.gif



You watch it like....how the **** do I know EXACTLY where hes going...but the players let him beat them there?



And that gotdamn guard screen to the elbow....


https://thumbs.gfycat.com/LawfulRealBanteng-size_restricted.gif



^^^^ Lebron can't do any of that - his approach is way more basic and beatable

Lebron only won more than Dirk because he team-hopped - he only beat the West 3 times, so he would have only 3 Finals appearances if he was in the West just like Dirk (Dirk actually has 2 because he choked one away vs Baron like Lebron did vs Dwight)

.

Ainosterhaspie
10-15-2019, 01:06 PM
In that first clip I see moving screens helping Dirk get open. The one against NO is the most obvious. But it's happening in the Philly one as well. I see pushes redirecting Dirk's defender as well.

3ball
10-15-2019, 02:08 PM
Which as you can see is at times contested.....but with a guy like Dirk who doesnt even need to be open...just get to his spot and shoot? Maybe....try to deny him his positioning? After they do it 14 times shouldnt you be able to disrupt it? Guys would often just concede it. Maybe not Bruce Bowen and his dirty elbow tapping while living in your jersey....but most arent gonna try that hard.

And its not like its recent. The same basic plays have worked forever. Pick and roll obviously has no sure counter no matter how many times you see it when a Stockton/Malone, /Price/Daugherty/ or Nash/Amare runs it. And guys like Willis Reed were abusing teams with the same cross/down screens Dirk used 50 years ago....


Running a PNR with 1 ball-dominator and surrounded by shooters (Lebron/CP3 style) is a very basic way to play that underwhelms in the playoffs and represents a lower-caliber skillset then the guys that win a lot more, i.e. Curry, Kobe, Bird, MJ, Durant, Kawhi

These guys are elite on-ball and off-ball, which fits with any player type, thereby maximizing team ceiling and brand.. otoh, Lebron/CP3/Nash are only elite on-ball, which only fits with shooters, thereby lowering team ceiling and brand

^^^ this is the reason lebron won less than Kobe/MJ and had weaker teams despite greater talent (a third star, aka Big 3's)

Essentially, the Lebron/Westbrook/CP3 skillset has always disappointed in the playoffs, but Lebron team-hopped for sufficient talent to force through this suboptimal style and win a few (still mostly losing though)
.