Does Lebron have ANY argument over Kareem?

[BigShotBob]

Just wondering what people think.

[LAmbruh]

It's close, that's why most have

1a Lebron
1b Kareem
2 Jordan
3 etc
4 etc

[FKAri]

All the arguments. He has all the arguments over Kareem. I have Lebron higher all-time than basketball as a sport.

[Bronbron23]

He has alot actually. Kareem was a better scorer, rebounder and defender. He has more rings, mvp's and scoring titles. LeBron really dosnt have much of an argument over Kareem tbh.

[coastalmarker99]

He has alot actually. Kareem was a better scorer, rebounder and defender. He has more rings, mvp's and scoring titles. LeBron really dosnt have much of an argument over Kareem tbh.
:wtf: Kareem played in the weakest era the 70's and got one ring before Magic saved him and he also won mvp's while not entering the playoffs. Yeah lebron is better then him. also he has only two final mvps and was lucky to get his last one in 1988 detroit were robbed from a bs foul call in game 6.

[ClipperRevival]

I know this is one of them rhetorical questions as OP is vet himself.

But objectively, no. That's why most knowledgeable fans have MJ/KAJ 1/2. Some have KAJ 1 and I am not going to argue to death about that. KAJ is the one guy who has a somewhat legit argument to be co-GOAT when you consider college, longevity, individual awards, peak, team accomplishments, stats, etc.

[coastalmarker99]

I know this is one of them rhetorical questions as OP is vet himself.

But objectively, no. That's why most knowledgeable fans have MJ/KAJ 1/2. Some have KAJ 1 and I am not going to argue to death about that. KAJ is the one guy who has a somewhat legit argument to be co-GOAT when you consider college, longevity, individual awards, peak, team accomplishments, stats, etc.

No legit argument for goat for me only two final mvps out of 10 trips that is shameful. and Bill walton would have kicked his ass if he stayed healthly like he did in 1977, he played in the weakest era and got only one ring. before Magic saved him and Wilt was giving it to him on one leg.

[Replay32]

No. Kareem is the GOAT.

[coastalmarker99]

No. Kareem is the GOAT.
No

[3ball]

No. Kareem is the GOAT.
Kareem has 2 rings as "the man", compared to MJ's 6

Kareem also played with 9 all-star teammates, compared to MJ's 1

So Kareem has no case for goat over Jordan, but obviously all the arguments over Lebron

[ClipperRevival]

No legit argument for goat for me only two final mvps out of 10 trips that is shameful. and Bill walton would have kicked his ass if he stayed healthly like he did in 1977, he played in the weakest era and got only one ring. before Magic saved him and Wilt was giving it to him on one leg.

I know you can take the negative approach when it comes to KAJ and a lot warranted. So who is your GOAT?

[coastalmarker99]

I know you can take the negative approach when it comes to KAJ and a lot warranted. So who is your GOAT?
jordan then Wilt i think that wilt is the most talentled individual to ever play in that he could do anything. He wanted to like doing Bill russell role on the lakers and also him showing that he could change his playstyle three times and still be the best player in the nba for his first 7 years he was a scoreing machine then he lead the nba in assists and won the title while having the goat peak 1967 and then while a laker he was the best defensive player in the league and he has also has the records to back him up. and that's not counting how many records he would have if blocks and steals were tracked as he would be number one in blocks.

[Doranku]

No legit argument for goat for me only two final mvps out of 10 trips that is shameful. and Bill walton would have kicked his ass if he stayed healthly like he did in 1977, he played in the weakest era and got only one ring. before Magic saved him and Wilt was giving it to him on one leg.

He should've had 3 FMVPs, he got robbed in the '80 finals when he got injured and Magic had his famous 42/15 game. He absolutely dominated in the 5 games that he played which resulted in the Lakers having a 3-2 lead:

33/14/5/6 blocks
38/14/3/5 blocks
33/14/3/4 blocks
23/11/4/4 blocks
40/15/1/4 blocks (16-24 shooting, game 5 in a 2-2 series)

Imagine not winning FMVP with those kind of performances. :oldlol:

[coastalmarker99]

Kareem has 2 rings as "the man", compared to MJ's 6

Kareem also played with 9 all-star teammates, compared to MJ's 1

So Kareem has no case for goat over Jordan, but obviously all the arguments over Lebron
thank you. Wilt was also better then Karrem it took the goat dynasty to beat him and they were very close defeats he lost 4 game 7's in total to bill by 9 points if those 9 points go Wilt's way we have a very different view on Wilt's legacy.

[coastalmarker99]

He should've had 3 FMVPs, he got robbed in the '80 finals when he got injured and Magic had his famous 42/15 game. He absolutely dominated in the 5 games that he played which resulted in the Lakers having a 3-2 lead:

33/14/5/6 blocks
38/14/3/5 blocks
33/14/3/4 blocks
23/11/4/4 blocks
40/15/1/4 blocks (16-24 shooting, game 5 in a 2-2 series)

Imagine not winning FMVP with those kind of performances. :oldlol:
i know that but Magic should have won the 1985 finals mvp he was the best player in that series so they both stole each other's finals mvp

[ClipperRevival]

jordan then Wilt i think that wilt is the most talentled individual to ever play in that he could do anything. He wanted to like doing Bill russell role on the lakers and also him showing that he could change his playstyle three times and still be the best player in the nba for his first 7 years he was a scoreing machine then he lead the nba in assists and won the title while having the goat peak 1967 and then while a laker he was the best defensive player in the league and he has also has the records to back him up. and that's not counting how many records he would have if blocks and steals were tracked as he would be number one in blocks.

There is a difference between GOAT individual talent and being on the GOAT list. And in that case Wilt is right up there for GOAT individual talent but not in my top GOAT list because I also judge guys by their desire/heart. Wilt clearly lacked that killer instinct. 1968 and 1969 was unforgivable. I can't claim anyone who left championships on the table as the GOAT tier. That's just me. He had all the stats but wasn't a killer, which means he didn't maximize his talents. To me, the GOAT has to maximize his talents.

[SouBeachTalents]

He should've had 3 FMVPs, he got robbed in the '80 finals when he got injured and Magic had his famous 42/15 game. He absolutely dominated in the 5 games that he played which resulted in the Lakers having a 3-2 lead:

33/14/5/6 blocks
38/14/3/5 blocks
33/14/3/4 blocks
23/11/4/4 blocks
40/15/1/4 blocks (16-24 shooting, game 5 in a 2-2 series)

Imagine not winning FMVP with those kind of performances. :oldlol:
Kareem literally was voted Finals MVP, but CBS made them change their vote because Kareem wasn't present to receive the award

i know that but Magic should have won the 1985 finals mvp he was the best player in that series so they both stole each other's finals mvp
I think Kareem was the rightful FMVP that series. After the Game 1 massacre

Kareem: 28/10/6 on 61%
Magic: 18/8/14 on 48%

If Magic were ever robbed of FMVP, it was the '88 Finals

[coastalmarker99]

There is a difference between GOAT individual talent and being on the GOAT list. And in that case Wilt is right up there for GOAT individual talent but not in my top GOAT list because I also judge guys by their desire/heart. Wilt clearly lacked that killer instinct. 1968 and 1969 was unforgivable. I can't claim anyone who left championships on the table as the GOAT tier. That's just me. He had all the stats but wasn't a killer, which means he didn't maximize his talents. To me, the GOAT has to maximize his talents.
1969 is unforgivable i agree but 1968 no Wilt was hurt along with many of his team mates and he did the best he could do if they were healthly i wonder if the sixers win that year does Wilt still go to the lakers if not i have the sixers winning in 1969 and 1970 and 1972 so Wilt finishes with 5 rings if he stays with the sixers in my view. And for the record:

If Wilt wins the title in '68 & '69, the debate between he and Russell is over. The narrative would forever be that once Wilt got good talent around him, he got the better of Russell. Even if he only ever won those 3 titles, he would be seen as the only serious pre-Kareem GOAT candidate.

[coastalmarker99]

Kareem literally was voted Finals MVP, but CBS made them change their vote because Kareem wasn't present to receive the award

I think Kareem was the rightful FMVP that series. After the Game 1 massacre

Kareem: 28/10/6 on 61%
Magic: 18/8/14 on 48%

If Magic were ever robbed of FMVP, it was the '88 Finals
Yeah your right my bad but detroit were robbed there should have not been a game 7 that skyhook foul call lol at the end of game 6

[Bronbron23]

:wtf: Kareem played in the weakest era the 70's and got one ring before Magic saved him and he also won mvp's while not entering the playoffs. Yeah lebron is better then him. also he has only two final mvps and was lucky to get his last one in 1988 detroit were robbed from a bs foul call in game 6.
You could say the same thing about LeBron though. He didn't get a ring until Wade showed him how. I don't think either is true personally. The era argument is a bar one also. Kareem would get the same amount of mvp's and scoring titles in any era. He had a legit unstoppable move unlike LeBron or most greats. Kareem dosnt get a enough credit because his game wasn't sexy but he absolutely has an argument over LeBron or any other great. I'm not even saying he's better than LeBron. I think it's very close but to say he dosnt have an argument is ridiculous.

[Replay32]

He should've had 3 FMVPs, he got robbed in the '80 finals when he got injured and Magic had his famous 42/15 game. He absolutely dominated in the 5 games that he played which resulted in the Lakers having a 3-2 lead:

33/14/5/6 blocks
38/14/3/5 blocks
33/14/3/4 blocks
23/11/4/4 blocks
40/15/1/4 blocks (16-24 shooting, game 5 in a 2-2 series)

Imagine not winning FMVP with those kind of performances. :oldlol:

:applause:

Also won finals mvp at age 38. Leading the lakers to there 1st championship win against the Celtics. Breaking the curse

[iamgine]

Well Kareem only won once in the 70s.

That's a really weak era and he only won once.

But surely he went to the finals often. Nope, only twice.

For the entirety of the 70s, Kareem only went to the finals twice.

And we askin does Lebron have any argument over Kareem. :lol

[Replay32]

Kareem literally was voted Finals MVP, but CBS made them change their vote because Kareem wasn't present to receive the award

I think Kareem was the rightful FMVP that series. After the Game 1 massacre

Kareem: 28/10/6 on 61%
Magic: 18/8/14 on 48%

If Magic were ever robbed of FMVP, it was the '88 Finals

Why explain? Dude is a joke and obviously didn

[ILLsmak]

Well Kareem only won once in the 70s.

That's a really weak era and he only won once.

But surely he went to the finals often. Nope, only twice.

For the entirety of the 70s, Kareem only went to the finals twice.

And we askin does Lebron have any argument over Kareem. :lol

He doesn't, Shirley.

-Smak

[ImKobe]

Well Kareem only won once in the 70s.

That's a really weak era and he only won once.

But surely he went to the finals often. Nope, only twice.

For the entirety of the 70s, Kareem only went to the finals twice.

And we askin does Lebron have any argument over Kareem. :lol

Yeah, he only won MVP, scoring title and FMVP in in his 2nd season

Lebron won 0 times in the 2000s and only went to the Finals once :lol :lol

[LAL]

What they have in common is longevity and winning with superteams.

[StrongLurk]

I have Kareem at 2 and Lebron at 3.

Honestly the most realistic thing for Lebron to surpass KAJ is to pass him on the all-time scoring list.

Of course if Lebron wins another ring/FMVP in dominant fashion, then I'll put him number 2 all time.

[meat]

No. Kareem is actually a thoughtful intelligent guy, and a
great socially conscious op ed writer.

LeBron is just a phony moron.

[Hey Yo]

You could say the same thing about LeBron though. He didn't get a ring until Wade showed him how. I don't think either is true personally. The era argument is a bar one also. Kareem would get the same amount of mvp's and scoring titles in any era. He had a legit unstoppable move unlike LeBron or most greats. Kareem dosnt get a enough credit because his game wasn't sexy but he absolutely has an argument over LeBron or any other great. I'm not even saying he's better than LeBron. I think it's very close but to say he dosnt have an argument is ridiculous.
:oldlol:

:rolleyes:

:facepalm

dumb

[bullettooth]

:oldlol:

:rolleyes:

:facepalm

dumb

That's true, because the first time he tried to learn he shit the bed in glorious 17ppg fashion against a midget JJ Barea.

[bigkingsfan]

Yeah, he only won MVP, scoring title and FMVP in in his 2nd season

Lebron won 0 times in the 2000s and only went to the Finals once :lol :lol
Slippery slope, took Kobe 12 yr for MVP, and 13 for FMVP...

[LAmbruh]

Slippery slope, took Kobe 12 yr for MVP, and 13 for FMVP...
6 Finals trips before he even got a single vote :(

[SouBeachTalents]

Slippery slope, took Kobe 12 yr for MVP, and 13 for FMVP...
https://media3.giphy.com/media/p4cqQ0gUIMcU0/source.gif

I legit feel bad for Kobe fans, always outmatched on an individual basis, their only resort is rangz, the majority of which were won not even as his teams best or most impactful player

[Turbo Slayer]

Slippery slope, took Kobe 12 yr for MVP, and 13 for FMVP...
:oldlol:

https://media.giphy.com/media/p43MYZMGtJaSz2flbV/giphy.gif

[Rico2016]

Imagine playing in a weak era WITH a top 3 all time player in Magic and trying to be ranked ahead of LeBron with also only having 2 FMVPs

That's not it chico

[Rico2016]

6 Finals trips before he even got a single vote :(


1for6be

[Turbo Slayer]

1for6be
https://media.giphy.com/media/vvVAv8JZl5Wq4/giphy.gif

[DoctorP]

Chongster gotta worry about making the playoffs this season.

[3ball]

Imagine playing in a weak era WITH a top 3 all time player in Magic and trying to be ranked ahead of LeBron with also only having 2 FMVPs

That's not it chico
I somewhat agree with the bolded - I don't think Magic and Kareem can BOTH be ranked top 5 all-time..

It's just too much help, which diminishes the rings

One of them has to take a dip into the 5-10 range, and I think it's Kareem - he needed soooooo much help to win (9 all-star teammates), and goat bigs generally need more help than goat perimeter players

[SouBeachTalents]

I somewhat agree with the bolded - I don't think Magic and Kareem can BOTH be ranked top 5 all-time..

It's just too much help, which diminishes the rings

One of them has to take a dip into the 5-10 range, and I think it's Kareem - he needed soooooo much help to win (9 all-star teammates), and goat bigs generally need more help than goat perimeter players
Yes you do

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13565598&postcount=1

[3ball]

Yes you do

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13565598&postcount=1
^^^ that's 10 months old

I've since updated them several times by putting all the goat perimeter players over the goat bigs, because it's clear that the goat bigs need more help and can't control the game like the goat wings

My latest rankings have MJ/Bird/Kobe/Magic over Kareem/Shaq/Duncan/Russell

[ILLsmak]

Kobe

It's like ****ing where's waldo. I SEE U.

-Smak

[Round Mound]

Kareem in the 70's was as dominant as Wilt or Shaq.And he had a more refined game than both

[iamgine]

Yeah, he only won MVP, scoring title and FMVP in in his 2nd season

Lebron won 0 times in the 2000s and only went to the Finals once :lol :lol

2000s isn't weak era though. 1970s is very very weak era.

[LAL]

Kareem in the 70's was as dominant as Wilt or Shaq.And he had a more refined game than both
Sure but only won once in 7 years with oscar in the 70's. Then came showtime lakers, even james worthy was finals mvp with magic and kareem as his teammates.

Lebron is just too overrated. Goat stats, no real skills and losing record, even with superteams in the east. He hardly explodes in points and can't be extra aggresive when everyone wants to see that.

[Manny98]

^^^ that's 10 months old

I've since updated them several times by putting all the goat perimeter players over the goat bigs, because it's clear that the goat bigs need more help and can't control the game like the goat wings

My latest rankings have MJ/Bird/Kobe/Magic over Kareem/Shaq/Duncan/Russell
LeBron is a GOAT wing as well though

[StrongLurk]

^^^ that's 10 months old

I've since updated them several times by putting all the goat perimeter players over the goat bigs, because it's clear that the goat bigs need more help and can't control the game like the goat wings

My latest rankings have MJ/Bird/Kobe/Magic over Kareem/Shaq/Duncan/Russell

This poster has the least amount of shame on ish.

Dude is claiming that top 10 list is 10 months old...which is not a lot of time to change your mind after supposed being 42 years old.

Yet in the referenced post, he describes the list as NEW.

So, cringey, and, shameless...and so easy to expose.

[PickernRoller]

This thread is an insult to Kareem. Qing James has absolutely 0.0000.000.00000000.000000000.00000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000.00000% argument.

[Rico2016]

I somewhat agree with the bolded - I don't think Magic and Kareem can BOTH be ranked top 5 all-time..

It's just too much help, which diminishes the rings

One of them has to take a dip into the 5-10 range, and I think it's Kareem - he needed soooooo much help to win (9 all-star teammates), and goat bigs generally need more help than goat perimeter players

Agreed my G. Kareem had more help than any top 10 star AND he was a weak 70s - 80s era AND he only has 2 FMVPs, AND he missed the playoffs in his prime TWICE. No thank you.