PDA

View Full Version : why did mike jordan never have a better def rtg vs pip for any playoff w/ all 6 rings


And1AllDay
10-20-2019, 04:39 PM
mike had 6 playoff runs to a ring and never had below 101 def rtg and never had a lower def rtg then pippen for all 6 years
Turbo Slayer
10-20-2019, 04:41 PM
https://media.giphy.com/media/26xBGekbXJHY8KpUY/giphy.gif

You are destroying them! MERCY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :cheers:
Young X
10-20-2019, 04:43 PM
Guards don't have low DRtg's mostly because they get less defensive boards.

That's why Westbrook despite not being a good defender has deceptively low DRtg's...because he gets alot of rebounds.
And1AllDay
10-20-2019, 04:44 PM
https://media.giphy.com/media/26xBGekbXJHY8KpUY/giphy.gif

You are destroying them! MERCY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :cheers:

they will have nothing to say
And1AllDay
10-20-2019, 04:45 PM
Guards don't have low DRtg's mostly because they get less defensive boards.

That's why Westbrook despite not being a good defender has deceptively low DRtg's...because he gets alot of rebounds.

uh are rebounds part of defense :oldlol: :oldlol:

hello ? lol
warriorfan
10-20-2019, 04:46 PM
How many times did Michael Jordan get outscored by Jason Terry in the NBA Finals?
Young X
10-20-2019, 04:46 PM
Not always, some players get meaningless rebounds that another player would've snatched anyway.
And1AllDay
10-20-2019, 04:47 PM
How many times did Michael Jordan get outscored by Jason Terry in the NBA Finals?

how many 1st round exists in a row did he get before pippen

three years in a row

10 playoff games

1 win

1-9
yikes
Turbo Slayer
10-20-2019, 04:47 PM
How many times did Michael Jordan get outscored by Jason Terry in the NBA Finals?
How many times Lebron outscored Steph Curry in the 2016 Finals?

:oldlol:

Love you, Warriorfan.
And1AllDay
10-20-2019, 04:49 PM
How many times Lebron outscored Steph Curry in the 2016 Finals?

:oldlol:

Love you, Warriorfan.


Ouch

2015 too
and 2017
and 2018



well yeah
egokiller
10-20-2019, 04:49 PM
mike had 6 playoff runs to a ring and never had below 101 def rtg and never had a lower def rtg then pippen for all 6 years

Pippen'd def rtg is MJ's def rating considering the fact that MJ molded Pippen and the world knows that Pippen's def rtg is shit had he not been blessed with having to cover MJ everday in practice.

Notice how no one is talking about Pippen's help D in this vid during the 91 finals. It's all about Pippen matching up against Magic and his man to man defense.

https://youtu.be/uOoYLtc3rts?t=169

"It was Pippen's off ball defense that enabled the Bulls to stop Magic in the 91 finals" - said no one ever.

Another one. :banana:
egokiller
10-20-2019, 04:50 PM
How many times did Michael Jordan get outscored by Jason Terry in the NBA Finals?

:roll:

Also how many times did Lebron win in the finals compared to MJ? How many times did he lose in the finals compared to MJ?

Another one
3ball
10-20-2019, 04:51 PM
why didn't mike jordan never have a better def rtg vs pip for any playoff w/ all 6 rings


the same reason Bird had better DRtg than Pippen

DRtg is simply a counter of steals, blocks, and defensive rebounds - the defensive rebound component favors defensive rebounders like Bird over Pippen, or Pippen over Jordan

This isn't my opinion.. this is what the creators of the stat say on bballref in the glossary section
FromDowntown
10-20-2019, 04:52 PM
Pippen might be a slightly better defender because Michael was spending more energy on the offensive end but both were exceptional defenders
Turbo Slayer
10-20-2019, 04:53 PM
Pippen'd def rtg is MJ's def rating considering the fact that MJ molded Pippen and the world knows that Pippen's def rtg is shit had he not been blessed with having to cover MJ everday in practice.

Notice how no one is talking about Pippen's help D in this vid during the 91 finals. It's all about Pippen matching up against Magic and his man to man defense.

https://youtu.be/uOoYLtc3rts?t=169

"It was Pippen's off ball defense that enabled the Bulls to stop Magic in the 91 finals" - said no one ever.

Another one. :banana: In 1990-91, Pippen in one game scored 43 points in Feb 23. He had of FG percentage of 94.1 :biggums:

Scottie Pippen is truly one of the greats.
3ball
10-20-2019, 04:54 PM
In 1990-91, Pippen in one game scored 43 points in Feb 23. He had of FG percentage of 94.1 :biggums:

Scottie Pippen is truly one of the greats.
how many 40-point games for his career?

game, set, match

and Pippen had better DRtg than MJ for the same reason Bird had better DRtg than Pippen

DRtg is simply a counter of steals, blocks, and defensive rebounds - the defensive rebound component favors defensive rebounders like Bird over Pippen, or Pippen over Jordan

This isn't my opinion.. this is what the creators of the stat say on bballref in the glossary section
FromDowntown
10-20-2019, 04:54 PM
In 1990-91, Pippen in one game scored 43 points in Feb 23. He had of FG percentage of 94.1 :biggums:

Scottie Pippen is truly one of the greats.

He very well might be top 30 all time, it's tough to say but if you want to consider defense then he is top 30 without question
Turbo Slayer
10-20-2019, 04:57 PM
He very well might be top 30 all time, it's tough to say but if you want to consider defense then he is top 30 without question
:rockon:

JOIN OUR SIDE.

FromDowntown, join LeFam and we shall bless you with rewards!!

:rockon:

Our allies are strong. :pimp:

Willing to make the Decision?
ImKobe
10-20-2019, 05:02 PM
how many 40-point games for his career?

game, set, match

and Pippen had better DRtg than MJ for the same reason Bird had better DRtg than Pippen

DRtg is simply a counter of steals, blocks, and defensive rebounds - the defensive rebound component favors defensive rebounders like Bird over Pippen, or Pippen over Jordan

This isn't my opinion.. this is what the creators of the stat say on bballref in the glossary section

THREE 30+ Pt games in 6 title runs :roll: :roll: 0 past the 91-92 title runs :facepalm

But but Pippen was so great and MJ held him back

ONE 30+ pt Playoff game in 1994 (first game of the Playoffs against the Cavs), ZERO in the 2nd round with 25 points as his highest game (did it twice with three 20+ FGA games, shot below 40% in 4 out of 7 games). Also only had ONE 30+ pt Playoff game game post-98 and he was 32 at the time MJ retired.
Turbo Slayer
10-20-2019, 05:31 PM
https://media.giphy.com/media/QxreNLeNjEx6U/giphy.gif

:banana:
Manny98
10-20-2019, 05:54 PM
The same reason why the Bulls didn't miss a beat defensively without MJ in 94

MJ is overrated af defensively he's not even in the same tier defensively as Pippen tbh
egokiller
10-20-2019, 05:56 PM
The same reason why the Bulls didn't miss a beat defensively without MJ in 94

MJ is overrated af defensively he's not even in the same tier defensively as Pippen tbh

:sleeping

Bulls were an entirely different team with like 5 new players in 94.

Try again.
ImKobe
10-20-2019, 05:58 PM
The same reason why the Bulls didn't miss a beat defensively without MJ in 94

MJ is overrated af defensively he's not even in the same tier defensively as Pippen tbh

Didn't miss a beat, except they went from an elite offense AND defense to mediocre offense and a 2nd round exit and a .500 team in '95 before Jordan saved them from an embarrassing 1st round exit.
bigkingsfan
10-20-2019, 06:01 PM
Didn't miss a beat, except they went from an elite offense AND defense to mediocre offense and a 2nd round exit and a .500 team in '95 before Jordan saved them from an embarrassing 1st round exit.
Instead they had an earlier exit than the year before. whoopie doo.
3ball
10-20-2019, 06:04 PM
The same reason why the Bulls didn't miss a beat defensively without MJ in 94

MJ is overrated af defensively he's not even in the same tier defensively as Pippen tbh
teams have a limited amount of energy to expend on both ends - shifts in performance/effort on one side normally take away from the other side..

But even though the Bulls' offense fell off a cliff in 1994 and they focused more on defense, their defensive ranking didn't improve relative to the league because they were missing their best defender (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOgJhzj4W9M&t=35m00s)... :confusedshrug:

Otoh, the presence of MJ gave the Bulls the highest ORtg's of all time.. But this GOAT improvement on offense didn't come at the expense of defense like it would for most teams.. His presence enabled a TWO-WAY team, which isn't surprising, since he's the goat two-way player according to Popovich (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11875095&postcount=46).

So imagine Kawhi Leonard (as Popovich references), with the capability of scoring 15 more ppg.. That's Jordan... That's the GOAT..
Bronbron23
10-20-2019, 06:06 PM
mike had 6 playoff runs to a ring and never had below 101 def rtg and never had a lower def rtg then pippen for all 6 years
Drtg? Are u guys still using this for a defensive measure? Last year jj Reddick who is one of the worst defenders in the league basically had the same drtg as Paul George, Pascal siakum and Draymond green. Drtg Is a trash defensive measure.
ImKobe
10-20-2019, 06:07 PM
Instead they had an earlier exit than the year before. whoopie doo.


They were borderline .500 and would have lost in the 1st round without MJ.

And they were eliminated in the 2nd round in 1995 just as they were in 1994, so I wouldn't call it an earlier exit :rolleyes: .
bigkingsfan
10-20-2019, 06:09 PM
They were borderline .500 and would have lost in the 1st round without MJ.

And they were eliminated in the 2nd round in 1995 just as they were in 1994, so I wouldn't call it an earlier exit :rolleyes: .
6th vs 7th game, earlier exit.
Rico2016
10-20-2019, 07:11 PM
The same reason why the Bulls didn't miss a beat defensively without MJ in 94

MJ is overrated af defensively he's not even in the same tier defensively as Pippen tbh

Yikes
RealSkipBayless
10-20-2019, 07:13 PM
OP comes back and immediately takes this board by storm. :eek:

:applause:
Rico2016
10-20-2019, 07:16 PM
Because Pippen is a MUCH better defender than Jordan
Turbo Slayer
10-20-2019, 07:18 PM
Because Pippen is a MUCH better defender than Jordan

Agreed, Rico2016. Question for you: Whats your username meaning?

:cheers:
3ball
10-20-2019, 07:19 PM
The same reason why the Bulls didn't miss a beat defensively without MJ in 94


Their defensive ranking didn't improve even though they were doing far less offensively

They went from the goat offense during the 1st three-peat, to #14 in the league in 1994, but couldn't improve defensively despite this huge drop-off offensively.





The same reason why the Bulls didn't miss a beat defensively without MJ in 94


teams have a limited amount of energy to expend on both ends - shifts in performance/effort on one side normally take away from the other side..

But even though the Bulls' offense fell off a cliff in 1994 and they focused more on defense, their defensive ranking didn't improve relative to the league because they were missing their best defender (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOgJhzj4W9M&t=35m00s)...

Otoh, the presence of MJ gave the Bulls the highest ORtg's of all time.. But this GOAT improvement on offense didn't come at the expense of defense like it would for most teams.. His presence enabled a TWO-WAY team, which isn't surprising, since he's the goat two-way player according to Popovich (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11875095&postcount=46).

So imagine Kawhi Leonard (as Popovich references), with the capability of scoring 15 more ppg.. That's Jordan... That's the GOAT..
Rico2016
10-20-2019, 07:19 PM
Agreed, Rico2016. Question for you: Whats your username meaning?

:cheers:


Rico = Manny's cousin.
2016 = Oh you know :pimp:
Turbo Slayer
10-20-2019, 08:15 PM
:rockon: :applause:
TheCorporation
10-04-2021, 10:16 PM
The same reason why the Bulls didn't miss a beat defensively without MJ in 94

MJ is overrated af defensively he's not even in the same tier defensively as Pippen tbh

:lebronamazed:
3ba11
10-04-2021, 10:34 PM
:lebronamazed:


DPOY VOTING

1988.... MJ (1st).... Pip (none)
1989.... MJ (5th).... Pip (none)
1990.... MJ (5th).... Pip (none)
1991.... MJ (7th).... Pip (7th)
1992.... MJ (3rd).... Pip (3rd)
1993.... MJ (2nd)... Pip (none)
1996.... MJ (5th).... Pip (2nd)
1997.... MJ (5th).... Pip (4th)
1998.... MJ (4th).... Pip (9th)


93' Jordan was clearly viewed as the Bulls' best defender, and even the LEAGUE'S:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GilQsS3oifM&t=02m47s



Here's the exchange in the 91' Finals between Marv Albert and Mike Fratello when MJ gets his 2nd foul in Game 2:



ALBERT: Do you stay with Jordan on Johnson?

FRATELLO: There's no question that he's the best guy to play Magic Johnson, but maybe you pick and choose when you put him on Magic..."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8o8l6oM6Jeg&t=12m23s



^^^ this sentiment was echoed by the NBA in the Bulls' Championship Video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeAUz2dZ_NQ&t=35m03s
Axe
10-04-2021, 11:28 PM
No pip, no chip.
TheCorporation
10-06-2021, 09:41 AM
Anyone figure this out yet?
expansionera
10-06-2021, 06:02 PM
Anyone figure this out yet?

Apparently being taller, longer, stronger and leading Jordan in rebounds, steals, blocks and defensive rating is not indicative of Pippen being a superior defender. After all the most popular athlete in the world at the time was granted a media award missing from Pippen’s resume which had nothing to do with promoting his image/the league
2much_knowledge
10-07-2021, 01:11 AM
Because he has to carry the load on offense cause obviously Pippen can't score like that...

Dumb question
getting_old
10-07-2021, 08:12 AM
few argue Scottie wasn't an all-time great on D, along with Rodman and Bobby Jones

it's dominating all those other valuable skills and most important leadership that put MJ a million miles above him