Lebron sucks - advanced stats from last night

[3ball]

.................Time of possession..................... Pts per touch................ Pts

Lebron................. 10.0 min................................ 0.162.........................18
Siakam.................. 4.7 min................................ 0.351......................... 34
Kawhi.................... 5.3 min................................ 0.475......................... 30
Ingram.................. 2.9 min................................ 0.319......................... 22

https://stats.nba.com/players/touches/?sort=TIME_OF_POSS&dir=1


LeDecline will be ugly y'all .. Enjoy!!... :rockon:

The reality is that Lebron has always had excessive hold-time and very low points-per-touch compared to his peers..

This suboptimal style turns teammates into spot-up shooters, which doesn't develop teammates or teams, so he must team-hop for ready-made stars/teams
.

[Akeem34TheDream]

Stop it. Get some help.

[stalkerforlife]

Great post as always.

So enlightening.

[3ball]

Everyone is already saying the Lakers have no bench and no cast, so Lebron will have to carry the team and play 80 games

But wouldn't the Lakers' cast look a lot better if Lebron got his stats in 5 minutes of hold-time rather than 10 minutes - wouldn't the Laker cast look better with an extra 5 minutes of hold-time?

[DoctorP]

good stats. ill give it to ya

[90sgoat]

Can't argue with FACTS

[StrongLurk]

Using stats show that Lebron is a top 3 player of all time.

OP loves to bodybag himself.

[STATUTORY]

eye test confirm, Bran was utter trash. At a certain point, Kawhi scored 7 straight buckets and Bran was heard muttering "it's not a rivalry, it's not a rivalry"

[lakerstekkenn]

You can't beat top ten Teams with James hold the Ball just standing there for 20 seconds and then attacking the basket.

You need to move the ball and use your players strength's


Because there's no ball movement and the defense can just set and nobodies open.

[lakerstekkenn]

When Cleveland beat the Worriers in 7 games everyone was scoring and was involved in the offense, then James attacks.

Now everyone is standing around while James holds the ball while everyone just looks at him and he bulldozes to the basket and the Clippers close in on him and take away his lanes and dribble and the clock runs out and he's looking around. :confusedshrug:

They will get everything together around the altar break and end up a 5th or 4th seed, these are James teams.

[3ball]

eye test confirm, Bran was utter trash. At a certain point, Kawhi scored 7 straight buckets and Bran was heard muttering "it's not a rivalry, it's not a rivalry"
And why couldn't Lebron respond? Because he has no jumper - Kawhi was coming down and making quick moves for jumpers (quick-hitter scores), and it looks stupid for Lebron to respond with his slow lumbering drives..... so he didn't respond.. :confusedshrug:

Now if that were Kobe, he would be matching Kawhi jumper for jumper and getting his team juiced and forcing adjustments... But alas, Lebron isn't as good as Kobe

[lakerstekkenn]

And why couldn't Lebron respond? Because he has no jumper - Kawhi was coming down and making quick moves for jumpers (quick-hitter scores), and it looks stupid for Lebron to respond with his slow lumbering drives..... so he didn't respond.. :confusedshrug:

Now if that were Kobe, he would be matching Kawhi jumper for jumper and getting his team juiced and forcing adjustments... But alas, Lebron isn't as good as Kobe



LaBron starts off slow every year and then his jumper comes back just like the Celtics series when he couldn't be stopped.

While everyone knows Kobe starts insane and hits everything then late in the playoffs he's crazy insane then his legs go until he recovers and goes for 40, then 25 then 40 and then 20.

Every player even Jordan had similar games high then lower scoring playoffs and some Stars just start slow.


Even Curry has up and down scoring playoffs because of fatigue.


James legs are just not there yet also his quickness isn't there this will develop when his leg strength gets to basketball strength.

[FromDowntown]

I like most of your posts but you have to slow down a little tyke.

[3ball]

LaBron starts off slow every year and then his jumper comes back just like the Celtics series when he couldn't be stopped.

While everyone knows Kobe starts insane and hits everything then late in the playoffs he's crazy insane then his legs go until he recovers and goes for 40, then 25 then 40 and then 20.

Every player even Jordan had similar games high then lower scoring playoffs and some Stars just start slow.


Even Curry has up and down scoring playoffs because of fatigue.


James legs are just not there yet also his quickness isn't there this will develop when his leg strength gets to basketball strength.
F.uck all that

Barkley said it perfectly last night:


""As great as Lebron is, he doesn't play fast"


And it's because of his jumper - he can't just come down and jack up jumpers like Kobe or MJ for quick-hitter scores that force adjustments - every game those guys would get hot and force the opposing coach to call a timeout and make adjustments - fans waited for that moment as sign they were "taking over"

Lebron's jumper never does that.. He plays slow and doesn't have the skill for quick-hitter scores that force the defense into adjustments - instead, his slow scoring style allows caches to play him straight up and stay at home on his teammates, like Stan Van Gundy said he did in the 09' ECF, and the warriors did the same in the 15' Finals.

It's like, if Kobe hits 2-3 jumpers in a row, his team gets juiced and they win that quarter going away - opponents must protect against this by getting the ball out his hands via double-team or other adjustments.. only hot jumpshooters get doubled, whereas teams can meet penetrators like lebron at the rim with multiple bodies and don't need doubles on the perimeter

Furthermore, Lebron doesn't play off-ball - it's much easier to guard a ball-dominator pounding the rock 30 feet from the hoop than having to shade a guy who is running off screens and pindowns, etc and/or catching the ball in the danger zones (close to the hoop)..

Lebron's 1-ball-dominator and 4 shooters approach is a basic way to play and a low ball movement/low team assist brand that struggles on the championship level... he simply a CP3-style ball-dominator and skillset that avoided the career-losing fate of other ball-dominators by team-hopping for the extra talent that the style needs to win, aka a 3rd star

[Wally450]

Quick, let

[FromDowntown]

[QUOTE=Wally450]Quick, let

[3ball]

Quick, let’s cherry pick when MJ had a bad game.


It's more than 1 game because you can already see the wheels coming off as people are saying the Lakers' cast is trash and Lebron will have to carry the team - this is ridiculous because the Lakers brought in a bunch of good players

But Lebron has already marginalized them as the stats show:

Lebron - 18 pts in 10 minutes of hold-time
Kawhi'. - 30 pts in.. 5 minutes of hold time


^^^ Lakers' bench would look a lot better if they had an extra 5 minutes of hold time, which they'd get alongside a guy like Kawhi instead of Lebron, while also getting more scoring from kawhi

The 5 minutes explains most of the 60-19 gap in bench pts.. but lebron's excessive hold to time has marginalized teammates for years and made his casts look weaker than they really were... And he's already done it with this group after just 1 game..

Ultimately, lebron's style turns teammates into spot-up shooters, which doesn't develop teammates or teams, so he must team-hop for ready-made stars/teams

Lebron's 1-ball-dominator and 4 shooters approach is a basic way to play and a low ball movement/low team assist brand that struggles on the championship level... he's simply a CP3-style ball-dominator and skillset that avoided the career-losing fate of other ball-dominators by team-hopping for the extra talent that the style needs to win, aka a 3rd star





Quick, let’s cherry pick when MJ had a bad game.


It's more than 1 game - Barkley said it perfectly last night:


""As great as Lebron is, he doesn't play fast"


And it's because of his jumper - he can't just come down and jack up jumpers like Kobe or MJ for quick-hitter scores that force adjustments - every game those guys would get hot and force the opposing coach to call a timeout and make adjustments - fans waited for that moment as sign they were "taking over"

Lebron's jumper never does that.. He plays slow and doesn't have the skill for quick-hitter scores that force the defense into adjustments - instead, his slow scoring style allows caches to play him straight up and stay at home on his teammates, like Stan Van Gundy said he did in the 09' ECF, and the warriors did the same in the 15' Finals.

It's like, if Kobe hits 2-3 jumpers in a row, his team gets juiced and they win that quarter going away - opponents must protect against this by getting the ball out his hands via double-team or other adjustments.. only hot jumpshooters get doubled, whereas teams can meet penetrators like lebron at the rim with multiple bodies and don't need doubles on the perimeter

Furthermore, Lebron doesn't play off-ball - it's much easier to guard a ball-dominator pounding the rock 30 feet from the hoop than having to shade a guy who is running off screens and pindowns, etc and/or catching the ball in the danger zones (close to the hoop)..

Lebron's 1-ball-dominator and 4 shooters approach is a basic way to play and a low ball movement/low team assist brand that struggles on the championship level... he simply a CP3-style ball-dominator and skillset that avoided the career-losing fate of other ball-dominators by team-hopping for the extra talent that the style needs to win, aka a 3rd star

[NBASTATMAN]

.................Time of possession..................... Pts per touch................ Pts

Lebron................. 10.0 min................................ 0.162.........................18
Siakam.................. 4.7 min................................ 0.351......................... 34
Kawhi.................... 5.3 min................................ 0.475......................... 30
Ingram.................. 2.9 min................................ 0.319......................... 22

https://stats.nba.com/players/touches/?sort=TIME_OF_POSS&dir=1


LeDecline will be ugly y'all .. Enjoy!!... :rockon:

The reality is that Lebron has always had excessive hold-time and very low points-per-touch compared to his peers..

This suboptimal style turns teammates into spot-up shooters, which doesn't develop teammates or teams, so he must team-hop for ready-made stars/teams
.


I have to agree with OP.. Lebron cannot hold the ball with this team. They have two 7fters on the floor and none of them are sharpshooters. Plus they dont have anyone besides Lebron to break down a defense and he just cant do it all that well anymore. LEDECLINE has arrived.. :rockon:


THE TRUTH IS THE TRUTH. Dude looks slow but he did look good defensively vs the CLIPS..

[hiphopanonymous]

Correct me if I'm wrong but points per touch penalizes ball dominant players that dribble the air out like LeBron and Harden - while complimenting cutters and polished off-ball scorers who've built their games around quick catches and decisions?

[3ball]

Correct me if I'm wrong but points per touch penalizes ball dominant players that dribble the air out like LeBron and Harden - while complimenting cutters and polished off-ball scorers who've built their games around quick catches and decisions?

No, here's the points-per-touch leaders for 2019 of players that played 25+ mpg:



1) Paul George - 0.469
2) Klay Thompson - 0.466
3) Kawhi Leonard - 0.465
4) Terrence Ross - 0.455
5) JJ Redick - 0.441
6) Bogan Bogdanovic - 0.441
7) Eric Gordon - 0.418
8) James Harden - 0.414 (led NBA in time of possession by a lot)

19) Kevin Durant - 0.374

43) Giannis Antetokounmpo - 0.336

52) Lebron James - 0.322

https://stats.nba.com/players/touches/?Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=PTS_PER_TOUCH&dir=1


The stat isn't punitive because guys like Harden have more time to make their touches effective and efficient.

Regardless, the 1-ball-dominator and 4 shooters approach is a very basic way to play and results in a low ball movement/low team assist brand that struggles on the championship level... Lebron simply avoided the career-losing fate of other ball-dominators by team-hopping for the extra talent that the style needs to win, aka a 3rd star

So guys like harden/westbrook/cp3/nash/lebron only have 3 team-hopped rings total (Lebron's rings)... versus dozens of rings for Kawhi/MJ/Kobe/Durant/Curry etc.

Ultimately, the ball-dominator approach turns teammates into spot-up shooters, which doesn't develop teammates or teams, and therefore must team-hop for ready-made stars/teams

[hiphopanonymous]

No, here's the points-per-touch leaders for 2019 of players that played 25+ mpg:



1) Paul George - 0.469
2) Klay Thompson - 0.466
3) Kawhi Leonard - 0.465
4) Terrence Ross - 0.455
5) JJ Redick - 0.441
6) Bogan Bogdanovic - 0.441
7) Eric Gordon - 0.418
8) James Harden - 0.414 (led NBA in time of possession by a lot)

19) Kevin Durant - 0.374

43) Giannis Antetokounmpo - 0.336

52) Lebron James - 0.322

https://stats.nba.com/players/touches/?Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=PTS_PER_TOUCH&dir=1


The stat isn't punitive because guys like Harden have more time to make their touches effective and efficient.

Regardless, the 1-ball-dominator and 4 shooters approach is a very basic way to play and results in a low ball movement/low team assist brand that struggles on the championship level... Lebron simply avoided the career-losing fate of other ball-dominators by team-hopping for the extra talent that the style needs to win, aka a 3rd star

So guys like harden/westbrook/cp3/nash/lebron only have 3 team-hopped rings total (Lebron's rings)... versus dozens of rings for Kawhi/MJ/Kobe/Durant/Curry etc.

Ultimately, the ball-dominator approach turns teammates into spot-up shooters, which doesn't develop teammates or teams, and therefore must team-hop for ready-made stars/teams
Ah I see, I was also going to then attempt to correct myself if I was wrong about that and suggest maybe it penalizes players who look to assist not just score but that also wouldn't explain the huge disparity between James Harden and LeBron James.

Yikes, that's not a flattering stat for LeBron.

I know what you mean about his offensive strategy though, saw it a million times in both tenures of his in Cleveland. The offensive movement literally just died when he'd have the ball for LONG stretches of the game. A man might come up late for a high screen and roll so SOMETIMES it might be a 2 person offense but often times he'd even waive them away and go 1 on 5. The defense would collapse and he'd whip out a 50mph panic bail-out pass with no time left on the clock and expect some ice cold offensive shooters who haven't touched the ball for 5 minutes to give him an assist. It really was cringey stuff coming from such a high status player. He'd show glimpses of sheer domination and if the guys were moving he'd often be able to find them on their cuts - but then he'd go into LeBron mode and waive everyone away to stop moving and just totally kill the 5 man offensive patterns, it was frustrating. I don't know why he would do it either, glory seeking maybe? Tough to say.

[3ball]

Ah I see, I was also going to then attempt to correct myself if I was wrong about that and suggest maybe it penalizes players who look to assist not just score but that also wouldn't explain the huge disparity between James Harden and LeBron James.

Yikes, that's not a flattering stat for LeBron.

I know what you mean about his offensive strategy though, saw it a million times in both tenures of his in Cleveland. The offensive movement literally just died when he'd have the ball for LONG stretches of the game. A man might come up late for a high screen and roll so SOMETIMES it might be a 2 person offense but often times he'd even waive them away and go 1 on 5. The defense would collapse and he'd whip out a 50mph panic bail-out pass with no time left on the clock and expect some ice cold offensive shooters who haven't touched the ball for 5 minutes to give him an assist. It really was cringey stuff coming from such a high status player. He'd show glimpses of sheer domination and if the guys were moving he'd often be able to find them on their cuts - but then he'd go into LeBron mode and waive everyone away to stop moving and just totally kill the 5 man offensive patterns, it was frustrating. I don't know why he would do it either, glory seeking maybe? Tough to say.
Indeed, ball movement has always gotten better looks for role players than 1 player dominating the ball in the half-court