We all know that Russ & Harden is not going to work, right?

[Bosnian Sajo]

I enjoyed watching them play together last night, it was definitely fun to watch...but you know they are not going to end up winning a title. It's just not going to work, come playoff time they will be done by the 2nd round. IF THAT. Fun team to watch, they will be exciting for sure...but not title contenders.


Russ is fun to watch, but he couldn't even get it to work with Paul George and Steven Adams on the team and Dennis Shroeder off the bench.


He couldn't get it done with KD, Adams, Serge Ibaka, etc. when they were up 3-1 against the Warriors.


CP3 willed the Rockets to a 3-2 lead vs a healthy Warriors squad, carrying choking James around with him until it literally injured him. And Harden could not finish the job.



I just need to know that we all recognize this fact.

[Manny98]

Both choking frauds, wouldn't be suprised if they get bounced in the 1st round this year

[DMAVS41]

Depends on how you define "work"...

It certainly looked really good last night unless you are going to try to put the Harden/Gordon performance on Russ.

The issue with the Rockets will be their defense, Harden not getting the same calls he's used to, and Russ's lack of shooting.

Would it count as "working" if they win 55 games and lose to the Clippers in 6 or 7 games in the 2nd round? I mean...why would we expect this team, unless they make a move, to do better than that?

Seems to me that "working" should be somewhat related to reasonable expectations.

Also, LOL at listing Schroder like he matters.

[Bronbron23]

I enjoyed watching them play together last night, it was definitely fun to watch...but you know they are not going to end up winning a title. It's just not going to work, come playoff time they will be done by the 2nd round. IF THAT. Fun team to watch, they will be exciting for sure...but not title contenders.


Russ is fun to watch, but he couldn't even get it to work with Paul George and Steven Adams on the team and Dennis Shroeder off the bench.


He couldn't get it done with KD, Adams, Serge Ibaka, etc. when they were up 3-1 against the Warriors.


CP3 willed the Rockets to a 3-2 lead vs a healthy Warriors squad, carrying choking James around with him until it literally injured him. And Harden could not finish the job.



I just need to know that we all recognize this fact. what's work mean? A championship? Definitely no. A deep playoff run is possible though.

[Bosnian Sajo]

Obviously I mean championship, if you actually read the OP instead of just the thread title that would be clear as day to you.


They didn't get together to drink tea and enjoy the weather, surely.

[Bosnian Sajo]

Depends on how you define "work"...

It certainly looked really good last night unless you are going to try to put the Harden/Gordon performance on Russ.

The issue with the Rockets will be their defense, Harden not getting the same calls he's used to, and Russ's lack of shooting.

Would it count as "working" if they win 55 games and lose to the Clippers in 6 or 7 games in the 2nd round? I mean...why would we expect this team, unless they make a move, to do better than that?

Seems to me that "working" should be somewhat related to reasonable expectations.

Also, LOL at listing Schroder like he matters.



By "work" I mean "championship", I think it's "evident" that's what I "mean". Yea they will be a "good" team and win enough "games" to make it to the "playoffs" and potentially even make a "deep" run.


This "thread" was influenced by Rockets "fans" thinking that this team has a "shot" against the like of the "Clippers" and the "Lakers" out "west".


Why is listing Schroder so "funny" to you? He isn't a "good" bench piece? He's a "great" backup PG. I'd "gladly" take him.

[guy]

No it won't work. The thought of them winning a championship is laughable. I highly doubt they will ever be better then the 2018 Rockets with CP3 that won 65 games and took the Warriors to 7.

[ImKobe]

I enjoyed watching them play together last night, it was definitely fun to watch...but you know they are not going to end up winning a title. It's just not going to work, come playoff time they will be done by the 2nd round. IF THAT. Fun team to watch, they will be exciting for sure...but not title contenders.


Russ is fun to watch, but he couldn't even get it to work with Paul George and Steven Adams on the team and Dennis Shroeder off the bench.


He couldn't get it done with KD, Adams, Serge Ibaka, etc. when they were up 3-1 against the Warriors.


CP3 willed the Rockets to a 3-2 lead vs a healthy Warriors squad, carrying choking James around with him until it literally injured him. And Harden could not finish the job.



I just need to know that we all recognize this fact.

Russ turned George into a top 3 MVP candidate, he made Adams look better than he really was and Ibaka had his best seasons in OKC.

It was a good trade for the Rockets because Chris Paul's simply too old to rely on at this point, Russ might be better on both ends of the court. Westbrook is healthier and considerably younger so they could definitely make a run to the Finals if they could go up 3 - 2 on the Warriors with Chris Paul. There's no team as good as the 2018 Warriors right now so this is Houston's best chance to win a title.

The one issue Westbrook had in OKC was that there never was enough shooting around him. He did have KD/George to throw it to but then you look at the rest of the guys and it was Waiters, Roberson, Singler, Oladipo or Melo. He has actual elite shooters all around him in Houston and a very athletic Capela. Thunder were playing 4 on 5 offensively with Roberson which is why they struggled to close the series against the Warriors, they simply lacked the shooting which made Westbrook shoot more of those shots. He doesn't need to do that in Houston, he can attack the paint a lot more and they'll stagger the minutes to have him run the 2nd unit so he'll work a lot better than people think.

[DMAVS41]

By "work" I mean "championship", I think it's "evident" that's what I "mean". Yea they will be a "good" team and win enough "games" to make it to the "playoffs" and potentially even make a "deep" run.


This "thread" was influenced by Rockets "fans" thinking that this team has a "shot" against the like of the "Clippers" and the "Lakers" out "west".


Why is listing Schroder so "funny" to you? He isn't a "good" bench piece? He's a "great" backup PG. I'd "gladly" take him.

Well, saying the Rockets should be expected to win the championship this year is a silly expectation. I don't think it would be crazy if they did, but they entered the year at +700 to win the title.

So you should rephrase the "work" part of it because that isn't the right word choice. To argue, for example, that this season didn't "work" if the Bucks don't win it all is kind of silly...and they have better odds than the Rockets.

Schroder is just a common rotation player in the league. Nothing more.

[Wally450]

Obviously I mean championship, if you actually read the OP instead of just the thread title that would be clear as day to you.


They didn't get together to drink tea and enjoy the weather, surely.

I don't think many people think they can win a championship anyways so you're preaching to the choir. :confusedshrug:

I'm a fan of Harden and hate Westbrook. Westbrook is such a tough player to be a teammate of.

Can they make a deep run? Absolutely, but it depends on what role Westbrook is willing to take.

[red1]

harden was trash I hate that guy's game. ugly as hell yesterday.

[DMAVS41]

Russ turned George into a top 3 MVP candidate, he made Adams look better than he really was and Ibaka had his best seasons in OKC.

It was a good trade for the Rockets because Chris Paul's simply too old to rely on at this point, Russ might be better on both ends of the court. Westbrook is healthier and considerably younger so they could definitely make a run to the Finals if they could go up 3 - 2 on the Warriors with Chris Paul. There's no team as good as the 2018 Warriors right now so this is Houston's best chance to win a title.

The one issue Westbrook had in OKC was that there never was enough shooting around him. He did have KD/George to throw it to but then you look at the rest of the guys and it was Waiters, Roberson, Singler, Oladipo or Melo. He has actual elite shooters all around him in Houston and a very athletic Capela. Thunder were playing 4 on 5 offensively with Roberson which is why they struggled to close the series against the Warriors, they simply lacked the shooting which made Westbrook shoot more of those shots. He doesn't need to do that in Houston, he can attack the paint a lot more and they'll stagger the minutes to have him run the 2nd unit so he'll work a lot better than people think.

Russ really did play an optimal style last night.

His shooting will always be a problem, but like you said...he hit guys for wide open shots all night. It will be interesting to see how Russ performs this season having real range shooting around him.

It shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that the Rockets aren't winning many games against the best teams if Harden plays so poorly...and Gordon as well.

[Bronbron23]

Obviously I mean championship, if you actually read the OP instead of just the thread title that would be clear as day to you.


They didn't get together to drink tea and enjoy the weather, surely.
I ment in theory what does work mean? I know what it means to you but that's an unfair expectation for those 2. They're not better than Bron and ad and they're not better than kawhi and pg. Lots of players "worked" but didn't win a title.

[ILLsmak]

but you know they are not going to end up winning a title.

Even yaboy loney knows that.

-Smak

[Bosnian Sajo]

Russ really did play an optimal style last night.

His shooting will always be a problem, but like you said...he hit guys for wide open shots all night. It will be interesting to see how Russ performs this season having real range shooting around him.

It shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that the Rockets aren't winning many games against the best teams if Harden plays so poorly...and Gordon as well.


Russ did play very nice last night, I enjoyed watching the game and was rooting for em to win it.


I expect you to have the same view as I do that they aren't true title contenders, this thread more for those that believe they are...Again, anything could happen and I could easily be wrong for having this strong of a prediction early into the season (who knows if they make a move or 2 to put them up there), but regardless I felt like there were a lot of people banking on them to make real noise out West.

[Bosnian Sajo]

Even yaboy loney knows that.

-Smak


No, Loney is one of the guys this thread is for :oldlol:

[Bosnian Sajo]

I ment in theory what does work mean? I know what it means to you but that's an unfair expectation for those 2. They're not better than Bron and ad and they're not better than kawhi and pg. Lots of players "worked" but didn't win a title.


Alright, I get it guys.



Mods, feel free to change "work" to "win a championship" since these guys have such an issue with my word choice. I already elaborated what I meant in the OP, there is no reason for us to be discussing the wording I used to this depth.

[DMAVS41]

Alright, I get it guys.



Mods, feel free to change "work" to "win a championship" since these guys have such an issue with my word choice. I already elaborated what I meant in the OP, there is no reason for us to be discussing the wording I used to this depth.

Ok, so what is the point of the thread?

To just say what basically everyone already agrees with? That the Rockets will likely not win the title.

Hardly anyone actually thinks the Rockets will win it all this year...maybe if they make a move they could pose a real challenge, but I don't see how they are winning it all without another valuable Ariza type rotation player.

[Kblaze8855]

Not winning a title?

Yea.

That sounds likely.

It

[Bronbron23]

Alright, I get it guys.



Mods, feel free to change "work" to "win a championship" since these guys have such an issue with my word choice. I already elaborated what I meant in the OP, there is no reason for us to be discussing the wording I used to this depth.
Well in that case you might as well just said that water is wet because everyone already knows the rockets aren't winning the chip.

[DoctorP]

wont work. we all saw that 1 game last night. its all over

they should TANK

[egokiller]

No team lead by Russ or Harden will ever win a chip. Been saying this for years.

[stalkerforlife]

Nope.

It'll work.

Typical one game overreaction.

Not saying title work, but they'll be in the playoffs with a puncher's chance.

[bigkingsfan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zR6ROjoOX0&t=0m55s

[BlakFrankWhite]

Bookmarked.

[Smoke117]

Russ turned George into a top 3 MVP candidate, he made Adams look better than he really was and Ibaka had his best seasons in OKC.

It was a good trade for the Rockets because Chris Paul's simply too old to rely on at this point, Russ might be better on both ends of the court. Westbrook is healthier and considerably younger so they could definitely make a run to the Finals if they could go up 3 - 2 on the Warriors with Chris Paul. There's no team as good as the 2018 Warriors right now so this is Houston's best chance to win a title.

The one issue Westbrook had in OKC was that there never was enough shooting around him. He did have KD/George to throw it to but then you look at the rest of the guys and it was Waiters, Roberson, Singler, Oladipo or Melo. He has actual elite shooters all around him in Houston and a very athletic Capela. Thunder were playing 4 on 5 offensively with Roberson which is why they struggled to close the series against the Warriors, they simply lacked the shooting which made Westbrook shoot more of those shots. He doesn't need to do that in Houston, he can attack the paint a lot more and they'll stagger the minutes to have him run the 2nd unit so he'll work a lot better than people think.

Uh...Chris Paul led the league for pg's in DRPM this past season with a 2.27. Westbrick was a -0.08. CP3 is a far superior defensive player. That's not even in question.

[MJistheGOAT]

People are underrating CP3

[ImKobe]

Uh...Chris Paul led the league for pg's in DRPM this past season with a 2.27. Westbrick was a -0.08. CP3 is a far superior defensive player. That's not even in question.

It's not everything. How many games did Paul play? How good was he in the Playoffs? Of course a completely healthy and younger CP3 would be a better fit, but Westbrook makes them better at this point. Rockets last year were 17th defensively while OKC was 4th.

Westbrook had a 3.9 DBPM to Paul's 0.2 and Westbrook had a 5.6 VORP in the RS to Paul's 2.4.

And Westbrook's ability to rebound and get out quickly on the fast break goes underrated, you saw yesterday how he would get the rebound and create a wide open corner 3 within 5 seconds. Westbrook is not a negative defender.

[eliteballer]

Everyone's so anxious to make predictions, let it play out.

[Smoke117]

It's not everything. How many games did Paul play? How good was he in the Playoffs? Of course a completely healthy and younger CP3 would be a better fit, but Westbrook makes them better at this point. Rockets last year were 17th defensively while OKC was 4th.

Westbrook had a 3.9 DBPM to Paul's 0.2 and Westbrook had a 5.6 VORP in the RS to Paul's 2.4.

And Westbrook's ability to rebound and get out quickly on the fast break goes underrated, you saw yesterday how he would get the rebound and create a wide open corner 3 within 5 seconds. Westbrook is not a negative defender.

Westbrook's DBPM is all about the rebounds. He doesn't play good defense. I think it was two years ago of players who contested the least 3pters and he was in the bottom 5...as A POINT GUARD. lol He would leave his man open to go grab rebounds. Paul is a far superior defensive player, period. Anyway, I'd much rather have 2018 Paul over 2020 Westbrook either way. That 2018 Rockets team would be the favorites if they were playing this year. Aside from Paul being hurt, the problem last season was Harden dominated the offense way too much. If you look at pauls per 36 without Harden on the bench to his per 36 playing with Harden it's a completely different player.

Chris Paul last year with James Harden off the floor (per 36 minutes):

22.5 points
12.5 assists
17.1 shots
58.1% true shooting



Paul with Harden on the floor (per 36):

14.4 points
7.0 assists
11.9 shots
54% true shooting

[ImKobe]

Westbrook's DBPM is all about the rebounds. He doesn't play good defense. I think it was two years ago of players who contested the least 3pters and he was in the bottom 5...as A POINT GUARD. lol He would leave his man open to go grab rebounds. Paul is a far superior defensive player, period. Anyway, I'd much rather have 2018 Paul over 2020 Westbrook either way. That 2018 Rockets team would be the favorites if they were playing this year.

I don't disagree with the last point, they were a Chris Paul injury away from winning it all that year but how have OKC's defenses been that good if Westbrook is such a bad defensive player? It doesn't make sense. They were better defensively the year after KD left. Rebounding is part of the defense and Westbrook isn't just a great rebounder but he also creates a bunch of turnovers for his teams. He's always been an above-average defensive player.

I think that contested stat came during his MVP season when he had to do everything offensively and focused more on getting the ball out in transition than contesting every perimeter shot, they were still above-average defensively that season and only won 8 less games despite losing a top 5 player.

The only real negative about WB is his scoring over the past two seasons but it will be less of a factor in Houston because he'll have more opportunities inside the paint and another ball-dominant scorer which should limit the amount of bad shots he used to take on an offensively inept Thunder team.

[Smoke117]

I don't disagree with the last point, they were a Chris Paul injury away from winning it all that year but how have OKC's defenses been that good if Westbrook is such a bad defensive player? It doesn't make sense. They were better defensively the year after KD left. Rebounding is part of the defense and Westbrook isn't just a great rebounder but he also creates a bunch of turnovers for his teams. He's always been an above-average defensive player.

I think that contested stat came during his MVP season when he had to do everything offensively and focused more on getting the ball out in transition than contesting every perimeter shot, they were still above-average defensively that season and only won 8 less games despite losing a top 5 player.

The only real negative about WB is his scoring over the past two seasons but it will be less of a factor in Houston because he'll have more opportunities inside the paint and another ball-dominant scorer which should limit the amount of bad shots he used to take on an offensively inept Thunder team.

Like I added in before you quoted my post, Paul was much better when Harden wasn't on the court. Harden dominated the offense way too much last season. He had to when Paul was out and they were struggling, but he never let up and that hurt the team overall come playoff time. Paul was right to be upset that Harden wasn't moving the ball around more during that Warriors series.

Chris Paul last year with James Harden off the floor (per 36 minutes):

22.5 points
12.5 assists
17.1 shots
58.1% true shooting



Paul with Harden on the floor (per 36):

14.4 points
7.0 assists
11.9 shots
54% true shooting

Either way, all this talk about Paul falling off was nonsense. It was playing with Harden. He'll probably average 18ppg 8-9apg while playing his usual all nba defense while being top 5 to 10 in all major advanced stats this season.

[ImKobe]

Like I added in before you quoted this, Paul was much better when Harden wasn't on the court. Harden dominated the offense way too much last season. He had to when Paul was out and they were struggling, but he never let up and that hurt the team overall come playoff time.

Chris Paul last year with James Harden off the floor (per 36 minutes):

22.5 points
12.5 assists
17.1 shots
58.1% true shooting



Paul with Harden on the floor (per 36):

14.4 points
7.0 assists
11.9 shots
54% true shooting

I think we'll see the same thing happen this season. Westbrook will look a lot better when Harden's on the bench. You already saw them sit WB early and then bring him back as Harden went for his rest so they'll probably look to have at least one of the two on the court at all times in the RS.

Obviously their production per minute will be higher when they're the ones dominating the ball, I'm not sure how effective they'll be on the court together but it's not like Westbrook was frozen out on offense in the 4th quarter against the Bucks, he was the one dominating the ball for the most part, I guess they'll go with whoever has the hot hand.

My point is that they'll be great this season and probably better than most projected them to be. I've seen some people go as far as leaving them out of the Playoffs and we've seen everyone hype the Lakers-Clippers WCF but one of them will have to beat Houston in the 2nd round.

The issue with Paul is that he hasn't been healthy the past few seasons and it's not like he'll get healthier as he ages, it was the right move to make and it extends Houston's window for a couple more years. CP3 has played 61, 58 and 58 RS games the last 3 seasons and didn't look that good offensively against the Warriors in the WCSF last season.

[Smoke117]

I think we'll see the same thing happen this season. Westbrook will look a lot better when Harden's on the bench. You already saw them sit WB early and then bring him back as Harden went for his rest so they'll probably look to have at least one of the two on the court at all times in the RS.

Obviously their production per minute will be higher when they're the ones dominating the ball, I'm not sure how effective they'll be on the court together but it's not like Westbrook was frozen out on offense in the 4th quarter against the Bucks, he was the one dominating the ball for the most part, I guess they'll go with whoever has the hot hand.

My point is that they'll be great this season and probably better than most projected them to be. I've seen some people go as far as leaving them out of the Playoffs and we've seen everyone hype the Lakers-Clippers WCF but one of them will have to beat Houston in the 2nd round.

The issue with Paul is that he hasn't been healthy the past few seasons and it's not like he'll get healthier as he ages, it was the right move to make and it extends Houston's window for a couple more years. CP3 has played 61, 58 and 58 RS games the last 3 seasons and didn't look that good offensively against the Warriors in the WCSF last season.

I don't see the Rockets being a problem for the Clippers, but the Lakers will have their hands full.

[scuzzy]

Worked in OKC



Smacked around Lakers and Kobe so hard it was the last time the little guy ever sniffed a playoff court



Quickie in 5, easy work by 'new' bloods and 'new' era.



Russ and James pinned Kobe so hard he begged Mitch all summer to dump all future assets on Nash and Dwight



but i'm sure OP remembers, huge Bosnia Lakers fan :lol

[ImKobe]

I don't see the Rockets being a problem for the Clippers, but the Lakers will have their hands full.

It's hard to trust Harden to beat them but I wouldn't be surprised if they went 7 games and beat the Clippers. Rockets have the better 3-point shooting team. I like Capela against Harrell and Westbrook/Harden against Beverley, we know James is great drawing fouls and he'd probably exploit Pat Bev for a bunch of fouls, Russ also brings that same kind of energy as Beverley. Eric Gordon and Lou Williams pretty much cancel eachother out. It would be an interesting match-up to say the least.


Worked in OKC



Smacked around Lakers and Kobe so hard it was the last time the little guy ever sniffed a playoff court



Quickie in 5, easy work by 'new' bloods and 'new' era.



Russ and James pinned Kobe so hard he begged Mitch all summer to dump all future assets on Nash and Dwight



but i'm sure OP remembers, huge Bosnia Lakers fan :lol

Kobe dominated them in 3 straight games with 36, 38 and 42 points, we made those trades because Bynum was injured and because we didn't have a true point guard, it's a shame Kobe, Nash and Gasol broke down next season.

[scuzzy]

Kobe dominated them in 3 straight games,
dominating L's, yeah he did


Quickie in 5


4-1


Easy work by baby Chuckbrick and baby _arden

[ImKobe]

dominating L's, yeah he did


Quickie in 5


4-1


Easy work by baby Chuckbrick and baby _arden

Kobe had 42 on 55% in elimination, it's the rest of the team that sucked balls.

[scuzzy]

Kobe had 42 on 55% in elimination, it's the rest of the team that sucked balls.
damn 42 in a Loss


talk about taking your team out of the game


what does your ilk call it, ah ye stat padding


Quick 5 piece by Harden off the bench, yikes

[ImKobe]

damn 42 in a Loss


talk about taking your team out of the game


what does your ilk call it, ah ye stat padding


Quick 5 piece by Harden off the bench, yikes

but but look at Lebron's numbers in blowout losses!!!

suck my dick

[scuzzy]

but but look at Lebron's numbers in blowout losses!!!

suck my dick


nah actually Lebron did quite well in 2012 vs same bunch


should check out

[ImKobe]

nah actually Lebron did quite well in 2012 vs same bunch


should check out

averaged less points than 16th season Bean, outscored by 23 y.o KD

Kobe still the GOAT

[scuzzy]

averaged less points than 16th season Bean, outscored by 23 y.o KD

Kobe still the GOAT

Averaging lots of shots at the expense of team losses


Mamba showing Westbrick n Harden how it's done :bowdown:

[ImKobe]

Averaging lots of shots at the expense of team losses


Mamba showing Westbrick n Harden how it's done :bowdown:

16th and 17th season Kobe outscored peak Lebron in the RS :eek:

[coin24]

Rockets won't make it out of the first round..

[scuzzy]

16th and 17th season Kobe outscored peak Lebron in the RS :eek:

Chuck City LA :bowdown:


Mamba out shooting teammates in L's while Miami is winning rings. :bowdown:

[72-10]

It's hard to imagine them both going for theirs, and getting theirs, and winning all at the same time

[Bosnian Sajo]

Hey.