If LeBron wins the title AND FMVP this year, where you rank him?

[Turbo Slayer]

Me personally, #2 alltime. :bowdown: LeThanos. :bowdown:

[Manny98]

Currently have him 2nd and if he pulls off another championship + FMVP he's the automatic GOAT

[Turbo Slayer]

Currently have him 2nd and if he pulls off another championship + FMVP he's the automatic GOAT
:eek:

[3ball]

Currently have him 2nd and if he pulls off another championship + FMVP he's the automatic GOAT
if after 16 years, you have him 2nd

then he's 2nd

nothing he could do after this much time should change your mind

[3ball]

And if Lebron wins a title this year and FMVP, it would be versus lesser Big 2's than MJ beat, aka Shaq/Penny and Magic/Worthy > Kawhi/PG... Malone/Stockton are probably also better

[superduper]

I have him ranked the same as I do before any of the fraud superteams

[RRR3]

I have him ranked the same as I do before any of the fraud superteams
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13791815&postcount=44


You have him ranked Top 3-5.

[Manny98]

And if Lebron wins a title this year and FMVP, it would be versus lesser Big 2's than MJ beat, aka Shaq/Penny and Magic/Worthy > Kawhi/PG... Malone/Stockton are probably also better
Kawhi and PG are easily better than past prime Magic/Worthy and baby Shaq/Penny

Current Kawhi is better than every 90s star minus MJ

[Turbo Slayer]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13791815&postcount=44


You have him ranked Top 3-5.
:oldlol:

[bullettooth]

Why would he win the FMVP when Anthony Davis is clearly the (much) better player?

[ImKobe]

Anthony Davis would win MVP if we actually won it all.

Right now it looks like AD might win MVP and DPOY.

AD is leading the team in points, rebounds and blocks, as well as PER and WS/48.

[StrongLurk]

Cemented as number 2 all time for me...but it's not gonna happen :lol

[Turbo Slayer]

Anthony Davis would win MVP if we actually won it all.

Right now it looks like AD might win MVP and DPOY.
So would you forgive some of LeBron's shortcomings if he wins it all year. Jabbar did.

[3ball]

.
Drexler 1992 Finals:. 24.8.. 7.8.. 5.3.. 52.2 ts.. 3.0 tov.. 113 ortg.. 18.4 gmsc
Lebron' 2011 Finals:. 17.8.. 7.2.. 6.8.. 54.1 ts.. 4.0 tov.. 102 ortg.. 13.7 gmsc
Lebron' 2007 Finals:. 22.0.. 7.0.. 6.8.. 42.8 ts.. 5.8 tov.... 83 ortg.. 10.6 gmsc

^^^ 92' Drexler was WAY better against the 2 best perimeter defenders ever (MJ/Pip) than Lebron was against Mavs and Spurs..


Drexler vs dpoy Rodman in 90' Finals..... 26.4.... 7.8.. 6.2.. on 54.3 fg
Lebron vs 2nd yr Kawhi in..'13' Finals..... 25.3.. 10.9.. 7.0.. on 44.7 fg

^^^ 90' Drexler faced the goat defense but still matched 13' Lebron

[3ball]

Magic was runner up for MVP in 1991, so that's better than Kawhi will do this year

And Shaq > Kawhi, don't be ridiculous

Btw, Drexler > 07' and 11' Lebron (shown in previous post) and is on Kawhi's level, let alone guys like Magic who are > Kawhi

[Turbo Slayer]

Magic was runner up for MVP in 1991, so that's better than Kawhi will do this year

And Shaq > Kawhi, don't be ridiculous

Btw, Drexler > 07' and 11' Lebron (shown in previous post) and is on Kawhi's level, let alone guys like Magic who are > Kawhi
:oldlol: :mad: :no:

[Bronbron23]

Me personally, #2 alltime. :bowdown: LeThanos. :bowdown:
And if he loses?

[Turbo Slayer]

And if he loses?


At worst top 5 cemented GOAT. :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

[aj1987]

.
Drexler 1992 Finals:. 24.8.. 7.8.. 5.3.. 52.2 ts.. 3.0 tov.. 113 ortg.. 18.4 gmsc
Lebron' 2011 Finals:. 17.8.. 7.2.. 6.8.. 54.1 ts.. 4.0 tov.. 102 ortg.. 13.7 gmsc
Lebron' 2007 Finals:. 22.0.. 7.0.. 6.8.. 42.8 ts.. 5.8 tov.... 83 ortg.. 10.6 gmsc

^^^ 92' Drexler was WAY better against the 2 best perimeter defenders ever (MJ/Pip) than Lebron was against Mavs and Spurs..


Drexler vs dpoy Rodman in 90' Finals..... 26.4.... 7.8.. 6.2.. on 54.3 fg
Lebron vs 2nd yr Kawhi in..'13' Finals..... 25.3.. 10.9.. 7.0.. on 44.7 fg

^^^ 90' Drexler faced the goat defense but still matched 13' Lebron
Going by your autistic logic of comparing Finals stats to evaluate players, over the past 15 seasons, Dirk, Duncan, Wade, LeBron, Kawhi, KD, Curry, etc. all shit on dad killer's '96 season.

I guess, replacing Ordan with '17/'18 Curry would've won the Bulls a title in a sweep.

Oh, and the '90's Pistons were the GOAT defense?

2013 Spurs - 101.6 DRTG at a pace of 94.2

1990 Pistons - 103.4 DRTG at a pace of 94.4


Now go jump off a cliff, you autistic little shit.

[Manny98]

And if he loses?
You can't move down only up :no:

[Celtics 1825]

Currently have him 2nd and if he pulls off another championship + FMVP he's the automatic GOAT
I'm shocked you don't already have him as #1, would've thought the whole Simon Squad has Lebron as GOAT

[Bronbron23]

You can't move down only up :no:
Another loss could definitely move him down a little. Especially if it's against kawhi.

[Rico2016]

He already is 1 all time so then hed be...who knows

[3ball]

Going by your autistic logic of comparing Finals stats to evaluate players, over the past 15 seasons, Dirk, Duncan, Wade, LeBron, Kawhi, KD, Curry, etc. all shit on dad killer's '96 season.


Yes, MJ's worst championship run compares to their best - this is true, and sounds about right






Oh, and the '90's Pistons were the GOAT defense?

2013 Spurs - 101.6 DRTG at a pace of 94.2

1990 Pistons - 103.4 DRTG at a pace of 94.4


The Pistons' DRtg was 4.7 points below the league average, versus only 4.2 for the Spurs.

Regardless, the 1990 era was a tougher defensive environment in general (no flagrant fouls, hands-on defense, paint-camping..

and also they didn't have spacing and the easy shot allocation that results (open layups/threes).

So players needed to be experts at contested, 2-point shot-making to offset the lack of spacing and 3-pointer offensive strategy.. Otoh, only the very best players today are experts at 2-point shot-making (i.e. Kawhi and Durant, aka the last 3 FMVP's)

[Turbo Slayer]

:mad:

[aj1987]

Yes, MJ's worst championship run compares to their best - this is true, and sounds about right
'13 Finals LeBron shits on '96 dad killer and it wasn't his best Finals run.

'12 Finals KD shits on '96 dad killer and it wasn't his best Finals run.

'11 Finals Wade shits on '96 dad killer and it wasn't his best Finals run.

'15 Curry shits on '96 dad killer and it wasn't his best Finals run.

Etc..



The Pistons' DRtg was 4.7 points below the league average, versus only 4.2 for the Spurs.
Oh wow. A whooping 0.5 points difference.

The '07 Spurs were 6.6 points below the league average.

The '14 Warriors were 4.4 points below the league average.

The '15 Warriors were 4.5 points below the league average.


Oh, and going back to the '13 season, the '13 Pacers were 6.1 points below the league average. I guess that makes them a better defense than the '90 Pistons.

The Celtics and Bulls in '11 were 7 points below.

The Celtics in '12 were 6.4 points below.

I could keep going.



Regardless, the 1990 era was a tougher defensive environment in general (no flagrant fouls, hands-on defense, paint-camping..

:roll: :roll:

Ordan was always protected by the refs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmlfiMDUTQ4

Magic talks about it as well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbMe0WNm19s

Meanwhile LeBron gets his nose broken and not even a foul.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIQaMbmPpyw



and also they didn't have spacing and the easy shot allocation that results (open layups/threes).

So players needed to be experts at contested, 2-point shot-making to offset the lack of spacing and 3-pointer offensive strategy.. Otoh, only the very best players today are experts at 2-point shot-making (i.e. Kawhi and Durant, aka the last 3 FMVP's)
So, what you're telling me is that players and coaches were retarded AF and did not figure out that utilizing the 3pt shot would lead to more effective spacing and more open driving lanes, instead of taking a ridiculously inefficient contested midrange fadeaway? I guess that was a dog shit era after all.

[3ball]

'13 Finals LeBron shits on '96 dad killer and it wasn't his best Finals run.


You're dreaming


Thru 3 games:

Jordan - 31 on 46%
Lebron - 16 on 39%


^^^ Accordingly, Lebron had a 2-1 deficit and needed teammates to save him later on, while Jordan had a 3-0 lead and his 4th championship.

The 2013 Finals were the same choke job as the 11' Finals, but a teammate saved him this time.

Ultimately, Lebron was a net negative for the series - the 13' Heat lost with him on the floor in those Finals





So, what you're telling me is that players and coaches were retarded AF and did not figure out that utilizing the 3pt shot would lead to more effective spacing and more open driving lanes, instead of taking a ridiculously inefficient contested midrange fadeaway? I guess that was a dog shit era after all.


Yes, and the lack of spacing, and added physicality made it much tougher to score - the only reason ORtg's still match today's is because players were THAT good at the skillset required to score with no spacing (contested 2-point shotmaking experts)

[StrongLurk]

'13 Finals LeBron shits on '96 dad killer and it wasn't his best Finals run.

'12 Finals KD shits on '96 dad killer and it wasn't his best Finals run.

'11 Finals Wade shits on '96 dad killer and it wasn't his best Finals run.

'15 Curry shits on '96 dad killer and it wasn't his best Finals run.

Etc..



Oh wow. A whooping 0.5 points difference.

The '07 Spurs were 6.6 points below the league average.

The '14 Warriors were 4.4 points below the league average.

The '15 Warriors were 4.5 points below the league average.


Oh, and going back to the '13 season, the '13 Pacers were 6.1 points below the league average. I guess that makes them a better defense than the '90 Pistons.

The Celtics and Bulls in '11 were 7 points below.

The Celtics in '12 were 6.4 points below.

I could keep going.




:roll: :roll:

Ordan was always protected by the refs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmlfiMDUTQ4

Magic talks about it as well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbMe0WNm19s

Meanwhile LeBron gets his nose broken and not even a foul.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIQaMbmPpyw



So, what you're telling me is that players and coaches were retarded AF and did not figure out that utilizing the 3pt shot would lead to more effective spacing and more open driving lanes, instead of taking a ridiculously inefficient contested midrange fadeaway? I guess that was a dog shit era after all.

What a bodybag :biggums:

[aj1987]

You're dreaming
Nah, you're the delusional ******.



Thru 3 games:

Jordan - 31 on 46%
Lebron - 16 on 39%
2013 NBA Finals LeBron

25/11/7/2/1 on 45%

1996 NBA Finals Jordan

27/5/4/2 on 42%

As I said, going by your logic of comparing LeBron and Drexler, '13 LeBron takes a massive shit on '96 Jordan.



^^^ Accordingly, Lebron had a 2-1 deficit and needed teammates to save him later on, while Jordan had a 3-0 lead and his 4th championship.
LeBron had a GOAT level NBA Finals G7 and iced the Final game with a midrange shot and scored 37/12/4/2 with a 144 ORTG and 95 DRTG, on this way to win his 2nd straight title.



The 2013 Finals were essentially the 11' Finals all over again, but a teammate saved him this time.
Like how Rodman saved Ordan's ass and was getting FMVP considerations?

https://www.nytimes.com/1996/06/08/sports/nba-finals-once-again-rodman-is-most-valuable-bull.html

How about Pippen saving Ordan's ass in '98 and getting FMVP votes and considerations?

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1998-06-11-9806110398-story.html

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1998-06-11-9806110397-story.html

From the GOAT coach himself:

"That's your call, not mine," Bulls coach Phil Jackson said after the Game 4 victory. "In my situation it is hard to merit who is in that position. I don't like to think about that until (the Finals are) finished. Between Michael (Jordan) and Scottie it's a real tough choice."

https://www.deseret.com/1998/6/11/19385041/what-about-pippen-for-nba-finals-mvp




Ultimately, Lebron was a net negative for the series - the 13' Heat lost with him on the floor in those Finals
You do know that Ordan was a SOLID 0 in Chicago's crucial G4 win in the '98 Finals, right? That would mean that he had ZERO impact when he was on the court, according to your "logic".

Pippen was +16 in G6, while Ordan was a +2. I guess Pippen had more impact that Ordan and truly deserved the FMVP.

A solid ZERO in the '97 Finals G6 as well.




Yes, and the lack of spacing, and added physicality made it much tougher to score - the only reason ORtg's still match today's is because players were THAT good at the skillset required to score with no spacing (contested 2-point shotmaking experts)
So, what you're telling me is that players and coaches were retarded AF and did not figure out that utilizing the 3pt shot would lead to more effective spacing and more open driving lanes, instead of taking a ridiculously inefficient contested midrange fadeaway? I guess that was a dog shit era after all.


Also:


The '07 Spurs were 6.6 points below the league average.

The '14 Warriors were 4.4 points below the league average.

The '15 Warriors were 4.5 points below the league average.


Oh, and going back to the '13 season, the '13 Pacers were 6.1 points below the league average. I guess that makes them a better defense than the '90 Pistons.

The Celtics and Bulls in '11 were 7 points below.

The Celtics in '12 were 6.4 points below.

I could keep going.

[Rico2016]

'13 Finals LeBron shits on '96 dad killer and it wasn't his best Finals run.

'12 Finals KD shits on '96 dad killer and it wasn't his best Finals run.

'11 Finals Wade shits on '96 dad killer and it wasn't his best Finals run.

'15 Curry shits on '96 dad killer and it wasn't his best Finals run.

Etc..



Oh wow. A whooping 0.5 points difference.

The '07 Spurs were 6.6 points below the league average.

The '14 Warriors were 4.4 points below the league average.

The '15 Warriors were 4.5 points below the league average.


Oh, and going back to the '13 season, the '13 Pacers were 6.1 points below the league average. I guess that makes them a better defense than the '90 Pistons.

The Celtics and Bulls in '11 were 7 points below.

The Celtics in '12 were 6.4 points below.

I could keep going.




:roll: :roll:

Ordan was always protected by the refs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmlfiMDUTQ4

Magic talks about it as well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbMe0WNm19s

Meanwhile LeBron gets his nose broken and not even a foul.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIQaMbmPpyw



So, what you're telling me is that players and coaches were retarded AF and did not figure out that utilizing the 3pt shot would lead to more effective spacing and more open driving lanes, instead of taking a ridiculously inefficient contested midrange fadeaway? I guess that was a dog shit era after all.

Toe-tagged and body bagged. Decimation at its finest. Aj is the 3ball slayer

[SpaceJam]

'13 Finals LeBron shits on '96 dad killer and it wasn't his best Finals run.

'12 Finals KD shits on '96 dad killer and it wasn't his best Finals run.

'11 Finals Wade shits on '96 dad killer and it wasn't his best Finals run.

'15 Curry shits on '96 dad killer and it wasn't his best Finals run.

Etc..



Oh wow. A whooping 0.5 points difference.

The '07 Spurs were 6.6 points below the league average.

The '14 Warriors were 4.4 points below the league average.

The '15 Warriors were 4.5 points below the league average.


Oh, and going back to the '13 season, the '13 Pacers were 6.1 points below the league average. I guess that makes them a better defense than the '90 Pistons.

The Celtics and Bulls in '11 were 7 points below.

The Celtics in '12 were 6.4 points below.

I could keep going.




:roll: :roll:

Ordan was always protected by the refs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmlfiMDUTQ4

Magic talks about it as well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbMe0WNm19s

Meanwhile LeBron gets his nose broken and not even a foul.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIQaMbmPpyw



So, what you're telling me is that players and coaches were retarded AF and did not figure out that utilizing the 3pt shot would lead to more effective spacing and more open driving lanes, instead of taking a ridiculously inefficient contested midrange fadeaway? I guess that was a dog shit era after all.

Wrecked.

[SpaceJam]

Thru 3 games:

Jordan -24 on 37%
Lebron - 31 on 44%

So easy to cherry pick 3 games out of a series

[juju151111]

.
Drexler 1992 Finals:. 24.8.. 7.8.. 5.3.. 52.2 ts.. 3.0 tov.. 113 ortg.. 18.4 gmsc
Lebron' 2011 Finals:. 17.8.. 7.2.. 6.8.. 54.1 ts.. 4.0 tov.. 102 ortg.. 13.7 gmsc
Lebron' 2007 Finals:. 22.0.. 7.0.. 6.8.. 42.8 ts.. 5.8 tov.... 83 ortg.. 10.6 gmsc

^^^ 92' Drexler was WAY better against the 2 best perimeter defenders ever (MJ/Pip) than Lebron was against Mavs and Spurs..


Drexler vs dpoy Rodman in 90' Finals..... 26.4.... 7.8.. 6.2.. on 54.3 fg
Lebron vs 2nd yr Kawhi in..'13' Finals..... 25.3.. 10.9.. 7.0.. on 44.7 fg

^^^ 90' Drexler faced the goat defense but still matched 13' Lebron
In no universe is Drexler on LJ level

[Draz]

The guy is 2nd all time. That

[Spurs m8]

4 out of 10 would be fitting....in more ways than one

[tpols]

AD is the MVP os this team so its a moot point.

all bran can do is desperately try to stat pad a better line but yall watch the games... LA is working through AD in the post in crunchtime and the guy isnt even a crunchtime player, he's in the flow just like bran. Thats why the kawhi and PG13 duels in the playoffs are going to be hilarious. :lol

[Gus Hemmingway]

AD is the MVP os this team so its a moot point.

all bran can do is desperately try to stat pad a better line but yall watch the games... LA is working through AD in the post in crunchtime and the guy isnt even a crunchtime player, he's in the flow just like bran. Thats why the kawhi and PG13 duels in the playoffs are going to be hilarious. :lol

Kawhi averaged 3ppg in the 2019 Finals 4th quarters :lol