Larry Bird or LeBron James

[Angel Face]

Greater player, greatest SF

[72-10]

Bird is a much better shooter, better passer and better rebounder, won more, is more clutch, and LeBron is an overrated defender, so yeah, Bird

[DoctorP]

Longevity Ill give to Lord Brando

Bird gets peak, clutch, shooting, winning

[ShawkFactory]

Is this your second Lebron/bird thread in one night?

I believe so

[SouBeachTalents]

Is this your second Lebron/bird thread in one night?

I believe so
:oldlol:

[lilteapot]

Bird is the word

[kawhileonard2]

Close overall, you could pick either. I prefer Bird because he brought it every night.

[Lebron23]

LeBron James. He'll double Birds finals mvp by the end of the season.

[Jasper]

tears me up to compare Bird with Bron ,,, Bird had IMO a more competitive era because of the defense that was allowed...

But Bron wins...

[Jasper]

LeBron James. He'll double Birds finals mvp by the end of the season.:oldlol:

[Shooter]

The polls are tilting heavily toward LeBulge

Next thread thanks

[FourthTenor]

The polls are tilting heavily toward LeBulge

Next thread thanks

This.

It’s actually an insult to Bird to set him up to be disrespected this way. He was obviously great, but everyone looks like a pauper in comparison to the king.

[Smoke117]

John Havlicek.

[HoopsNY]

It's close between LeBron and Bird. LeBron has greater athleticism and obviously greater longevity. But when you consider the fact that Bird was basically close to being a 50-40-90 player who could do everything that LeBron does (pass, score, rebound, and defend), it's as if you have a combination of Steph Curry and LeBron in one.

One thing that stands out, though, is that LeBron is also the better playoff performer, which matters. I still give the edge to Bird because I'm not as big on longevity as others are. If Luka gets this much recognition, then imagine Bird in this generation who would bring far better defense, shooting, and rebounding to the table.

[Lebron23]

It's close between LeBron and Bird. LeBron has greater athleticism and obviously greater longevity. But when you consider the fact that Bird was basically close to being a 50-40-90 player who could do everything that LeBron does (pass, score, rebound, and defend), it's as if you have a combination of Steph Curry and LeBron in one.

One thing that stands out, though, is that LeBron is also the better playoff performer, which matters. I still give the edge to Bird because I'm not as big on longevity as others are. If Luka gets this much recognition, then imagine Bird in this generation who would bring far better defense, shooting, and rebounding to the table.

Prime Lebron was also the better rebounder.

[HoopsNY]

Prime Lebron was also the better rebounder.

How so? Bird's numbers both in Rbpg and Per 100 are higher in both the regular season and playoffs if we're looking at peak/prime years. It's not a secret, Bird was an excellent rebounder and a better rebounder than LeBron. Bird also dealt with the big man era.

[Gohan]

Lmao bron is way better than bird

[Lebron23]

How so? Bird's numbers both in Rbpg and Per 100 are higher in both the regular season and playoffs if we're looking at peak/prime years. It's not a secret, Bird was an excellent rebounder and a better rebounder than LeBron. Bird also dealt with the big man era.

I meant defender.

[kawhileonard2]

Prime Lebron was also the better rebounder.

Bird averaged 10 rpg for his career

[LAmbruh]

landslide victory for the bron boys


anudda wun

[xlong588]

Lebron physically superior to Larry.

[Round Mound]

I would take 85-86 Bird over mostly anybody as Team Player. In the long term Lebron is a better athlete and ofcourse he will have a higher longevity but peak for peak its very close.

[HoopsNY]

I meant defender.

I could get down with that, but the margin isn't as great as many believe it to be. Larry was an amazing help defender whose help defense directly impacted outcomes of playoff games.

[Shooter]

I could get down with that, but the margin isn't as great as many believe it to be. Larry was an amazing help defender whose help defense directly impacted outcomes of playoff games.

You're a big ppg right?

Bird made 5 Finals, did you know he was outscored in three of them by his own teammates?

Only led his team in Finals scoring twice. Crazy huh? Must drop him out of your top 50 at that rate right?

[warriorfan]

If my team is shitty, LeBron. If my team is elite, Bird.

[Gudo]

Team player bird should not even have put up comparable numbers to ball dominant lebron. But he did.

[HoopsNY]

You're a big ppg right?

Bird made 5 Finals, did you know he was outscored in three of them by his own teammates?

Only led his team in Finals scoring twice. Crazy huh? Must drop him out of your top 50 at that rate right?

If you understood the Celtics system, you would understand why it wasn't so crazy.

[Shooter]

If you understood the Celtics system, you would understand why it wasn't so crazy.

:roll: :roll: Exposed

[1987_Lakers]

LeBron surpassed Bird in 2016. I can't think of a reason to go with Bird, both are similar in terms of peak play (I'll take LeBron cause of his defense), but LeBron is so far ahead of Bird in terms of longevity you would have to be simple to go with Bird.

[Whoah10115]

I meant defender.

I'm not even arguing (at least not right now) that Bird is as good or better defender than LeBron, but what I don't understand is why so many are so quick to point to defense.

Is that 2-3 year defensive peak that LeBron the reason? I could respect that.

Or it the perception of Bird as a defender? Maybe for you it's the former, but for most it's probably the latter.

[Shooter]

I'm not even arguing (at least not right now) that Bird is as good or better defender than LeBron, but what I don't understand is why so many are so quick to point to defense.

Is that 2-3 year defensive peak that LeBron the reason? I could respect that.

Or it the perception of Bird as a defender? Maybe for you it's the former, but for most it's probably the latter.

LeBron is 100% the best 2 way player in NBA history, no one is close. No one has anchored a defense like him. PERIOD. What don't you get?

MJ had Pippen
TD had Kawhi
Kawhi had TD
Magic had Kareem
Kobe had Shaq/Artest
LBJ had...Himself

[1987_Lakers]

I'm not even arguing (at least not right now) that Bird is as good or better defender than LeBron, but what I don't understand is why so many are so quick to point to defense.

Is that 2-3 year defensive peak that LeBron the reason? I could respect that.

Or it the perception of Bird as a defender? Maybe for you it's the former, but for most it's probably the latter.

2009-2013 LeBron is a better defender than any version of Bird, that is 5 seasons right there. Bird was an atrocious defender to close out his career, far worse than current LeBron. LeBron still shows flashes of being a great defender, you couldn't say the same for Bird post 1988.

Not only that, but peak LeBron is looked at as an all-time defender, ability to guard all positions, transition defense with his chase down blocks, Bird never got to that level.

[Shooter]

2009-2013 LeBron is a better defender than any version of Bird, that is 5 seasons right there. Bird was an atrocious defender to close out his career, far worse than current LeBron. LeBron still shows flashes of being a great defender, you couldn't say the same for Bird post 1988.

LeBron WAS the anchor for each chip.

[Lion's pride]

LeBron surpassed Bird in 2016. I can't think of a reason to go with Bird, both are similar in terms of peak play (I'll take LeBron cause of his defense), but LeBron is so far ahead of Bird in terms of longevity you would have to be simple to go with Bird.

Need some reasons

1- Bird peak> Lebron
2- Bird came through under pressure X10 > Lebron..
3- made everyone better not jut spot up shooters
4- Dominated without dominating the ball.
5-Bird won 3 titles in what 11years of playing.. ALL WITHOUT jumping teams like what 3 times!!
6- didn't need a teammate to take the BIG shot that He was to scared to do.. Ray Allen and Kyrie say Hello!
7- NEVER EVER QUIT ON A TEAM/TEAMMATES!!!!
8- NEVER THREW A WHOLE COUNTRY'S SUFFERING CITIZENS UNDER THE BUS!! just to make a few bucks..

*** was liked and loved and respected by everyone fans and teammates alike.. Lebron - :oldlol:

the ONLY thing Lebron has in longevity... Thanks to modern training and HGH..

But since I am simple, I probably missed a few things!!

[1987_Lakers]

Need some reasons

1- Bird peak> Lebron
2- Bird came through under pressure X10 > Lebron..ng the ball
3- made everyone better not jut spot up shooters
4- Dominated without dominating the ball.
5-Bird won 3 titles in what 11years of playing.. ALL WITHOUT jumping teams like what 3 times!!
6- didn't need a teammate to take the BIG shot that He was to scared to do.. Ray Allen and Kyrie say Hello!
7- NEVER EVER QUIT ON A TEAM/TEAMMATES!!!!
8- NEVER THREW A WHOLE COUNTRY'S SUFFERING CITIZENS UNDER THE BUS!! just to make a few bucks..

*** was liked and loved and respected by everyone fans and teammates alike.. Lebron - :oldlol:

the ONLY thing Lebron has in longevity... Thanks to modern training and HGH..

But since I am simple, I probably missed a few things!!

1. Arguable, many feel LeBron was better
2. LeBron didn't? Game 6 vs Boston in 2012. Game 7 vs Spurs in 2013, coming back from being down 3-1 and dominating in the process
3. Bird > MJ in terms of making his teammates better, does that make Bird a better player?
4. Look at the end result, both won 3 titles, LeBron made more Finals. Who cares?
5. Guess what, Bird played with more stacked teams than LeBron.
6. Smh, yea, Bird was never bailed out by Cedric Maxwell in the '81 Finals. I guess you can say the same for MJ with Paxson and Kerr
7. LeBron didn't either
8. What does that have to do with who the better player is?

Sorry, your arguments are atrocious, you sound exactly like a casual fan who has no real depth to his arguments.

[HoopsNY]

:roll: :roll: Exposed

How so? I don't think there was a single finals where Bird attempted 20+ FGA per game. And Bird had guys like Kevin McHale who the Celtics could default to in the low-post, particularly after McHale became the full time PF.

Who did LeBron have that compared to McHale's scoring ability in 2007, 2013, 2015, and the 2018 NBA finals? Let's see:

2007 - Drew Gooden?
2013 - Dwyane Wade? (Injured)
2015 - Timofey Mozgov?
2018 - JR Smith?

Furthermore, let's look at LeBron's highest FGA in the finals by year:

2015: 32.7
2016: 23.7
2017: 23.4
2018: 23.3
2007: 22.5
2012: 21.6
2013: 21.4

Only 2 years did he not have over 20 FGA per game in the finals. Bird never had a single finals with 20+ FGA. When Bird's shots weren't falling, he defaulted to facilitating. He dominated the game in more ways than one. And despite that, LeBron's FG% in the finals is 47% compared to Bird's 45%, just two percentage points higher.

And I love the emphasis on this but conveniently ignoring LeBron's 39% shooting in the 2015 finals, or his performances in 2007 and 2011. Yea, "exposed."

[Shooter]

How so? I don't think there was a single finals where Bird attempted 20+ FGA per game. And Bird had guys like Kevin McHale who the Celtics could default to in the low-post, particularly after McHale became the full time PF.

Who did LeBron have that compared to McHale's scoring ability in 2007, 2013, 2015, and the 2018 NBA finals? Let's see:

2007 - Drew Gooden?
2013 - Dwyane Wade? (Injured)
2015 - Timofey Mozgov?
2018 - JR Smith?

Furthermore, let's look at LeBron's highest FGA in the finals by year:

2015: 32.7
2016: 23.7
2017: 23.4
2018: 23.3
2007: 22.5
2012: 21.6
2013: 21.4

Only 2 years did he not have over 20 FGA per game in the finals. Bird never had a single finals with 20+ FGA. When Bird's shots weren't falling, he defaulted to facilitating. He dominated the game in more ways than one. And despite that, LeBron's FG% in the finals is 47% compared to Bird's 45%, just two percentage points higher.

And I love the emphasis on this but conveniently ignoring LeBron's 39% shooting in the 2015 finals, or his performances in 2007 and 2011. Yea, "exposed."

You typed all that up to realize that LeBron set the record for most times leading his team in Finals scoring? :lol

LBJ 8x
Bird 2x

NEXT

[HoopsNY]

2009-2013 LeBron is a better defender than any version of Bird, that is 5 seasons right there. Bird was an atrocious defender to close out his career, far worse than current LeBron. LeBron still shows flashes of being a great defender, you couldn't say the same for Bird post 1988.

Yea, after what should have been career ending injuries. Surely you understand that the injuries were the primary factor in his demise and it wasn't down to a decline of ability.


Not only that, but peak LeBron is looked at as an all-time defender, ability to guard all positions, transition defense with his chase down blocks, Bird never got to that level.

"Ability to guard all positions" means what exactly if you're not actually elite at guarding all of them? This narrative that just because you can put LeBron on a 1-5 automatically means he guards them at a highly effective rate is false.

As for his transition defense with chase down blocks, how many of those does he have as opposed to Bird's defensive timing of steals coming off his assignment, leading to transition points? I can almost guarantee Bird's is more frequent than these supposedly frequent chase down blocks.

It's amazing how an occasional chase down block somehow gets touted as if it's a regular on the ball block like he's Hakeem Olajuwon or something.

[HoopsNY]

You typed all that up to realize that LeBron set the record for most times leading his team in Finals scoring? :lol

LBJ 8x
Bird 2x

NEXT

Clearly you don't understand context. You also clearly don't understand who Kevin McHale was or how dominant of a low-post player he was. And it's obviously easier to be the default scorer and put up a high volume of shots when your second options are guys like a hobbled Dwyane Wade or freaking Timofey Mozgov.

[NBAGOAT]

Yea, after what should have been career ending injuries. Surely you understand that the injuries were the primary factor in his demise and it wasn't down to a decline of ability.



"Ability to guard all positions" means what exactly if you're not actually elite at guarding all of them. This narrative that just because you can put LeBron on a 1-5 automatically means he guards them at a highly effective rate is false.

As for his transition defense with chase down blocks, how many of those does he have as opposed to Bird's defensive timing of steals coming off his assignment, leading to transition points? I can almost guarantee Bird's is more frequent than these supposedly frequent chase down blocks.

It's amazing how an occasional chase down block somehow gets touted as if it's a regular on the ball block like he's Hakeem Olajuwon or something.

lebron's a better defender beyond the chase down blocks. He rim protects in the half court too and in his prime was amazingly versatile and could cover a bunch of ground as a help defender. pretty good man defender too, bird just doesnt have his footspeed. 1-5 is exaggerating but 1-4 isnt that outrageous.

was basically the main reason miami could play their ridiculous trappy help defense and recover and make up so much ground running from guy to guy. The raptors said they had a tracking system that tried to find optimal defense and lebron almost broke their system with how athletic he was with a great motor. direct quote was "He does things that are just unsustainable for most players" Not the best stats but impact metrics had him even as all-defense lvl in 2016(had to try with kyrie out) and he was pretty good this year.

[1987_Lakers]

Yea, after what should have been career ending injuries. Surely you understand that the injuries were the primary factor in his demise and it wasn't down to a decline of ability.



"Ability to guard all positions" means what exactly if you're not actually elite at guarding all of them? This narrative that just because you can put LeBron on a 1-5 automatically means he guards them at a highly effective rate is false.

As for his transition defense with chase down blocks, how many of those does he have as opposed to Bird's defensive timing of steals coming off his assignment, leading to transition points? I can almost guarantee Bird's is more frequent than these supposedly frequent chase down blocks.

It's amazing how an occasional chase down block somehow gets touted as if it's a regular on the ball block like he's Hakeem Olajuwon or something.

Even prime Bird '85-'88, was a liability in terms of man to man defense on the perimeter, the beauty of the Celtics is that they had McHale guard all the explosive SFs, he hid alot Bird's weaknesses on the defensive end. Prime LeBron was never a defensive liability in any sense.

Did you watch 2011-2013 LeBron? He was shutting people down from Pau Gasol to Derrick Rose. Tony Parker couldn't do squat against him in the 2013 Finals, also LeBron's size and athletic ability made him a solid rim protector in the half court, which is something you don't see among SFs. And if you watched LeBron from 2009 & 2010, you would know his chase down blocks were pretty frequent, hell one of his chase down blocks probably won him a title in 2016.

Sorry, Bird was not on his level defensively, not even close.

[Lion's pride]

Not only am I not a casual fan I have a lot of ammunition to 5 fact, will do so tomorrow as this is getting late, but mean while feed on this Larry Bird made multiple all defensive teams not necessarily because he was a great lock up man to man defender, but its ability to read and recognize offenses one step of head of everyone else made him way beyond what should given him credit for. Or in short was a far better defender and much closer to Le brons defense then you realize

[Lebron23]

Lebron is the better player. Deal with it. Bird is still the 2nd greatest sf of all time. I doubt larry was capable of leading a $hitty team like the 2007 cavaliers, and 2018 cavaliers in the nba finals.

[Round Mound]

Lebron is the better player. Deal with it. Bird is still the 2nd greatest sf of all time. I doubt larry was capable of leading a $hitty team like the 2007 cavaliers, and 2018 cavaliers in the nba finals.

Super-rookie Bird led Boston from 29 wins to 61 wins in 1979-80 (WITHOUT McHale or Parish) :confusedshrug:

[Walk on Water]

Lebron is the better player. Deal with it. Bird is still the 2nd greatest sf of all time. I doubt larry was capable of leading a $hitty team like the 2007 cavaliers, and 2018 cavaliers in the nba finals.


No. Just no.


:facepalm

[k 96]

Need some reasons

1- Bird peak> Lebron
2- Bird came through under pressure X10 > Lebron..
3- made everyone better not jut spot up shooters
4- Dominated without dominating the ball.
5-Bird won 3 titles in what 11years of playing.. ALL WITHOUT jumping teams like what 3 times!!
6- didn't need a teammate to take the BIG shot that He was to scared to do.. Ray Allen and Kyrie say Hello!
7- NEVER EVER QUIT ON A TEAM/TEAMMATES!!!!
8- NEVER THREW A WHOLE COUNTRY'S SUFFERING CITIZENS UNDER THE BUS!! just to make a few bucks..

*** was liked and loved and respected by everyone fans and teammates alike.. Lebron - :oldlol:

the ONLY thing Lebron has in longevity... Thanks to modern training and HGH..

But since I am simple, I probably missed a few things!!
You hit the nail on the head.

Larry "The Legend" Bird > LeHype 3 of 9 James

[Gudo]

Mad props to players like bird that don’t need to team hop while colluding and recruiting to win titles. Lebron james being in the finals n times should be taken with a grain of salt. Just look at the number of rings the guy has.

[FromDowntown]

Mad props to players like bird that don’t need to team hop while colluding and recruiting to win titles. Lebron james being in the finals n times should be taken with a grain of salt. Just look at the number of rings the guy has.

If LeBron was his team's top scorer for 2 of his 5 Finals, wjat wpuld you say?

Bird is well below LBJ class

Tier A: LBJ, KAJ, Russell
Tier B: Magic, Shaq, Duncan
Tier C: Bird, Hakeem, MJ, Kobe

[FromDowntown]

Super-rookie Bird led Boston from 29 wins to 61 wins in 1979-80 (WITHOUT McHale or Parish) :confusedshrug:

Super Rookie? Didnt Bird come into the league at 23 :lol

[Whoah10115]

2009-2013 LeBron is a better defender than any version of Bird, that is 5 seasons right there. Bird was an atrocious defender to close out his career, far worse than current LeBron. LeBron still shows flashes of being a great defender, you couldn't say the same for Bird post 1988.

Not only that, but peak LeBron is looked at as an all-time defender, ability to guard all positions, transition defense with his chase down blocks, Bird never got to that level.

I immediately reject any defensive LeBron prior to the two seasons Miami won. In Cleveland he was greatly overblown, tho more or less terrific, the same when he got to the Heat, until that Bulls series.

Even the second season they won, he didn't play that much defense till about the halfway mark.

He could never guard C so that was always a made up thing. Gifs of him denying an entry pass turned into him guarding C, which is ridiculous. I accept the rest, but for me he hasn't been consistently a great defender. A lot of what Barkley gets criticized for, LeBron has done a lot. Barkley was never elite there, of course, but his lack of D is also greatly overblown.

There's no Bird I've seen that was atrocious anywhere. His last season he had a lot of injuries, and I'll take peak LeBron defense, but for a career I simply don't agree.

[LAL]

Better basketball player, high level skills, practically same stats as lebron without the dribbling. Accomplished a whole in his 9 year prime, like Magic and Kobe did in 11 prime years.

[Lion's pride]

1. Arguable, many feel LeBron was better - arguable many feel Bird is better

2. LeBron didn't? Game 6 vs Boston in 2012. Game 7 vs Spurs in 2013, coming back from being down 3-1 and dominating in the process - only admitting Non quitting moments but fail to recognize his many quitting moments and a whole series (Dallas)

3. Bird > MJ in terms of making his teammates better, does that make Bird a better player? that's a different debate , but YES it does.

4. Look at the end result, both won 3 titles, LeBron made more Finals. Who cares?

5. Guess what, Bird played with more stacked teams than LeBron. - Bird also had to go through hell just to make it to the finals in the EAST, where they had historically tough teams in Philly, Detroit and eventually Chicago, with even Mil being a tough out.. JUST to play the most talented deepest team Ever in LAL.. * Lebron playin the the G-League equivalent of the eastern conference in the 2000s

6. Smh, yea, Bird was never bailed out by Cedric Maxwell in the '81 Finals. I guess you can say the same for MJ with Paxson and Kerr - really a big difference between those players hitting an open look after a pass vs hitting the biggest shots in NBA history AFTER Lebron missed multiple times!


7. LeBron didn't either - you have to be in great denial on this one..

8. What does that have to do with who the better player is? some might say nothing, some might say a lot.. A well loved person, teammates would run through a brick wall for.. a "it's all about me" person, they wouldn't.. _SAS - Lebron is condescending to younger teammates (as one example)

Sorry, your arguments are atrocious, you sound exactly like a casual fan who has no real depth to his arguments.

If that is true, I would be the only one arguing it..

[Manny98]

Imagine thinking Bird is better with a straight face...

Y'all trippin

[bullettooth]

Need some reasons

1- Bird peak> Lebron
2- Bird came through under pressure X10 > Lebron..
3- made everyone better not jut spot up shooters
4- Dominated without dominating the ball.
5-Bird won 3 titles in what 11years of playing.. ALL WITHOUT jumping teams like what 3 times!!
6- didn't need a teammate to take the BIG shot that He was to scared to do.. Ray Allen and Kyrie say Hello!
7- NEVER EVER QUIT ON A TEAM/TEAMMATES!!!!
8- NEVER THREW A WHOLE COUNTRY'S SUFFERING CITIZENS UNDER THE BUS!! just to make a few bucks..

*** was liked and loved and respected by everyone fans and teammates alike.. Lebron - :oldlol:

the ONLY thing Lebron has in longevity... Thanks to modern training and HGH..

But since I am simple, I probably missed a few things!!

https://craftnights.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/hit-the-nail-on-the-head-gif.gif

[Lion's pride]

Imagine thinking Bird is better with a straight face...

Y'all trippin

imagine actually using an argument that makes sense > over one-liners!!

[Lion's pride]

https://craftnights.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/hit-the-nail-on-the-head-gif.gif

:cheers:

[kawhileonard2]

Most have Bird ahead still.

[SouBeachTalents]

Most have Bird ahead still.
Link to even 3 all time lists in the last 5 years that have Bird ranked higher? Should be easy if "most" still have him ahead

[Lebron23]

Most have Bird ahead still.

Kiddlovenets, you are autistic.

[Lebron23]

LeBron is rank higher than Bird even before LeBron won his 4th finals MVP at 35

[Stephonit]

Bird accomplished about the same as James in half the time. James's only advantage is that he was able to enter the NBA earlier and durable enough to last longer in it to stat pad more.

[Lebron23]

Bird accomplished about the same as James in half the time. James's only advantage is that he was able to enter the NBA earlier and durable enough to last longer in it to stat pad more.

Lebron have more points than Kawhi, Green and Curry combined in the regular season. Lebron have more MVP's, and More finals MVP's than Bird.

[Stephonit]

Lebron have more points than Kawhi, Green and Curry combined in the regular season. Lebron have more MVP's, and More finals MVP's than Bird.

LeBron is a terrific stat padder, we all know this. We also know putting up points is something awards voters love. Fact remains that despite having double the productive years of Bird, LeBron and innumerable reshuffles of teammates he hasn't led a team to 67 wins like Bird did. Bird's Celtics will always be in discussions of being the best team of all-time ahead of any of LeBron's teams unless one of these later LeBron teams does something really impressive which doesn't seem likely.

[Lebron23]

LeBron is a terrific stat padder, we all know this. We also know putting up points is something awards voters love. Fact remains that despite having double the productive years of Bird, LeBron and innumerable reshuffles of teammates he hasn't led a team to 67 wins like Bird did. Bird's Celtics will always be in discussions of being the best team of all-time ahead of any of LeBron's teams unless one of these later LeBron teams does something really impressive which doesn't seem likely.

He can score. And LeBron's basketball IQ is the no.1 reason why he is still productive at 36. Cavaliers won 66 games with a bunch of role players in 2009. If LeBron had a stacked team like Bird in his Cavaliers days the Cavs would have been multiple champions. Imagine a Mchale and LeBron duo. He doesn't need Parish and DJ.

[Stephonit]

He can score. And LeBron's basketball IQ is the no.1 reason why he is still productive at 36. Cavaliers won 66 games with a bunch of role players in 2009.

LeBron's durability is the number one reason he is still productive. LeBron won 66 games with role players that year? Less impressive when you remember Dwight won 59 games with role players that year then beat LeBron in the playoffs with them.



If LeBron had a stacked team like Bird in his Cavaliers days the Cavs would have been multiple champions. Imagine a Mchale and LeBron duo. He doesn't need Parish and DJ.

LeBron had Wade and Bosh. The Heatles are the closest thing to an all-time team LeBron is associated with. Still a clear tier below the Bird Celtics.

As for "if only LeBron had a stacked team in his Cavaliers days" uh maybe he did? It certainly wasn't for lack of trying. One of those teams held the offensive record in the playoffs. True it was from beating wimpy teams in the East but still.

LeBron's list of former teammates read like a who's who of former Eastern Conference stars. During those Cavs days you mentioned aside from his championship teammates on the Cavs he got to play with Rose, Thomas, and then Wade again. Yes after their injuries but who in the East was supposed to be clearly better? DeMar DeRozan and Kyle Lowry? John Wall? Al Horford? Next thing you are probably going to say is that it's a shame he didn't get to play in the Western Conference during that time so he could hobnob more with its bigger stars so that he could convince them to join him.

[RRR3]

Steppedonshit FUMING as usual. Bron in great position to get number 5, meanwhile Curry can’t even make the 9th seed.

[Stephonit]

Steppedonshit FUMING as usual. Bron in great position to get number 5, meanwhile Curry can’t even make the 9th seed.

Uh oh. Bringing up Curry in a thread that has nothing to do with him? You should go see your medical professional immediately. You are showing symptoms of PCTSD.

[RRR3]

Poor fella.

[light]

Hilarious.

Of course LeBron.

LeBron is not only bigger, stronger, faster, smarter, more versatile, a better scorer and a better passer but he's a much better defender - one of the best defenders of all time whereas Bird doesn't even rank on that end. Bron is also a better leader and a better coach on the floor. LeBron is the best leader of all time.

LeBron also plays 5 positions while Bird couldn't.

Bird also agreed when he said on national television that the league has never seen a small forward that can do all of the things LeBron can do.

[Axe]

LeBron's durability is the number one reason he is still productive. LeBron won 66 games with role players that year? Less impressive when you remember Dwight won 59 games with role players that year then beat LeBron in the playoffs with them.



LeBron had Wade and Bosh. The Heatles are the closest thing to an all-time team LeBron is associated with. Still a clear tier below the Bird Celtics.

As for "if only LeBron had a stacked team in his Cavaliers days" uh maybe he did? It certainly wasn't for lack of trying. One of those teams held the offensive record in the playoffs. True it was from beating wimpy teams in the East but still.

LeBron's list of former teammates read like a who's who of former Eastern Conference stars. During those Cavs days you mentioned aside from his championship teammates on the Cavs he got to play with Rose, Thomas, and then Wade again. Yes after their injuries but who in the East was supposed to be clearly better? DeMar DeRozan and Kyle Lowry? John Wall? Al Horford? Next thing you are probably going to say is that it's a shame he didn't get to play in the Western Conference during that time so he could hobnob more with its bigger stars so that he could convince them to join him.
You're only bitter about kong because he destroyed your hero's chances of winning a title with a 70+ win team years ago despite being up 3-1. 5 years later and that scar is still as fresh as ever.

[2much_knowledge]

Lebron only case is longevity and athleticism. Bird better shooter (understatement) better clutch player, better rebounder, just as good a passer, LOYAL and above all....

Bird was a MAN. No flopping b.s, hustle and heart for days. Pretty much the opposite of lebron

[SouBeachTalents]

Lebron only case is longevity and athleticism. Bird better shooter (understatement) better clutch player, better rebounder, just as good a passer, LOYAL and above all....

Bird was a MAN. No flopping b.s, hustle and heart for days. Pretty much the opposite of lebron
Yep, longevity is the only case, if you ignore minute details like scoring and defense too :lol

[SATAN]

Bird himself knows LeBron is a better all round player. Not much to discuss.

[Thenameless]

At their very best, I'm still more afraid of Bird. I considered him to be the best shooter that ever lived until Curry came along. Career value goes easily to Lebron though. What he's done from his rookie year until now is almost unmatched. Bird was only Bird for less than ten years.

[2much_knowledge]

Yep, longevity is the only case, if you ignore minute details like scoring and defense too :lol

Ill give him defense. But scoring? Just because he played more of an off ball team game doesn't mean he couldn't score with the best of them if he really wanted to. Left of righty, didn't matter

How about those other things i mentioned? I wanna hear you out

[SouBeachTalents]

Ill give him defense. But scoring? Just because he played more of an off ball team game doesn't mean he couldn't score with the best of them if he really wanted to. Left of righty, didn't matter

How about those other things i mentioned? I wanna hear you out
I agree if Bird had a scorers mentality he'd put up (and even did put up) elite scoring numbers. But LeBron has shown numerous times in his career, especially in the playoffs, to reach a consistently higher scoring gear than Bird ever did. If you can't concede that LeBron's the better scorer, it'll be difficult for me to believe you have much objectivity on this subject.

Onto your other points

Shooter, nobody's going to deabte that :lol

Rebounder, I agree Bird was the better rebounder

Passing I won't disagree it's a draw, both are phenomenal passers

Clutch player I don't know how you're truly defining that. If I wanted someone to take the last shot, I'm taking Bird due to his significantly better shooting. If I needed one of them for a Game 7, I'm taking LeBron who's been routinely phenomenal in those situations. Bird was a lot more competitive and fearless than LeBron, and the most legitimate criticism of LeBron's clutch game is he's WAY too willing to give up the ball and be passive on end of game possessions, often to the detriment of his team. Let's not forge though, for someone who has the perception of being unclutch, the guy does have the most playoff game winners in history :lol

There was a thread just made about this, but it spoke the cold hard facts that outside of '84-'87 Bird was a rather pedestrian (for his standards) playoff performer, and even in the run I specified he had some mediocre stretches against the Lakers in the '85 & '87 Finals. Since hitting rock bottom in 2011 LeBron's been phenomenal in virtually every postseason he's been in. I definitely factor in high stakes performance in my evaluation of clutch, which is why I wouldn't automatically cede the clutch title to Bird when LeBron's been the consistently better playoff performer.

I agree Bird pulled no BS like flopping, always gave it his all and was one of the most competitive players in history. Bird seems like the type of guy who transported to this era would be loyal, though sticking it out with Cleveland with only Mo Williams to show for it after 7 years would be a pretty significant test of that loyalty lol.

[2much_knowledge]

I agree if Bird had a scorers mentality he'd put up (and even did put up) elite scoring numbers. But LeBron has shown numerous times in his career, especially in the playoffs, to reach a consistently higher scoring gear than Bird ever did. If you can't concede that LeBron's the better scorer, it'll be difficult for me to believe you have much objectivity on this subject.

Onto your other points

Shooter, nobody's going to deabte that :lol

Rebounder, I agree Bird was the better rebounder

Passing I won't disagree it's a draw, both are phenomenal passers

Clutch player I don't know how you're truly defining that. If I wanted someone to take the last shot, I'm taking Bird due to his significantly better shooting. If I needed one of them for a Game 7, I'm taking LeBron who's been routinely phenomenal in those situations. Bird was a lot more competitive and fearless than LeBron, and the most legitimate criticism of LeBron's clutch game is he's WAY too willing to give up the ball and be passive on end of game possessions, often to the detriment of his team. Let's not forge though, for someone who has the perception of being unclutch, the guy does have the most playoff game winners in history :lol

There was a thread just made about this, but it spoke the cold hard facts that outside of '84-'87 Bird was a rather pedestrian (for his standards) playoff performer, and even in the run I specified he had some mediocre stretches against the Lakers in the '85 & '87 Finals. Since hitting rock bottom in 2011 LeBron's been phenomenal in virtually every postseason he's been in. I definitely factor in high stakes performance in my evaluation of clutch, which is why I wouldn't automatically cede the clutch title to Bird when LeBron's been the consistently better playoff performer.

I agree Bird pulled no BS like flopping, always gave it his all and was one of the most competitive players in history. Bird seems like the type of guy who transported to this era would be loyal, though sticking it out with Cleveland with only Mo Williams to show for it after 7 years would be a pretty significant test of that loyalty lol.

Great reply. Detailed, logical and unbiased

Theres nothing wrong about thinking that lebron is better based on athletic abilities and longevity

But im more impressed by Bird for the exact opposite reasons. All that he did with that lack of athleticism and what he did in a very short period of being healthy.

Remember the people who guarded Bird (julius, wilkins, drexler, rodman, nance sr, worthy. Lots of really athletic small fowards at the time and he put them in his pocket most of the time

Lebron is more consistent in the playoffs, no doubt

[Thenameless]

You know, I'm neither a Bird fan nor a Lebron fan, but it's nice to see intelligent discourse about the topic. I tend to move very slowly when displacing all time greats with the shiny new toy. First, it was Elgin Baylor, and then Dr. J came along. For me, Bird clearly surpassed these two. I've had trouble putting Lebron into the same echelon as Bird (we're only talking peak/prime here). However, it's the body of work that swings things back to Lebron. To be close to his prime at 36 is incredible.

[2much_knowledge]

He can score. And LeBron's basketball IQ is the no.1 reason why he is still productive at 36. Cavaliers won 66 games with a bunch of role players in 2009. If LeBron had a stacked team like Bird in his Cavaliers days the Cavs would have been multiple champions. Imagine a Mchale and LeBron duo. He doesn't need Parish and DJ.

He doesn't need Parish or Dj lol. Bird won 3 with Mchale and Parish. Lebron won 3 with Bosh, Wade, Kyrie & Love, and 2 of them were absolute miracles. Are you serious now?

[Lebron23]

He doesn't need Parish or Dj lol. Bird won 3 with Mchale and Parish. Lebron won 3 with Bosh, Wade, Kyrie & Love, and 2 of them were absolute miracles. Are you serious now?

Did you just compared Mchale to Love and Bosh? You are clearly retarded. Wade is the only top 25-30 player of all time, but he was clearly past his prime in 2013.

[Rolando]

You know, I'm neither a Bird fan nor a Lebron fan, but it's nice to see intelligent discourse about the topic. I tend to move very slowly when displacing all time greats with the shiny new toy. First, it was Elgin Baylor, and then Dr. J came along. For me, Bird clearly surpassed these two. I've had trouble putting Lebron into the same echelon as Bird (we're only talking peak/prime here). However, it's the body of work that swings things back to Lebron. To be close to his prime at 36 is incredible.

This is kind of where I am at as well: Peak for Peak, I give it to Bird. However, the total body of work, careerwise must go to LeBron. And he doesn't even look like he is close to being finished. This is how he has gotten past both Bird and Magic. Now he is almost up there with Kareem, Jordan, and Russell.....But he needs more championships to properly hang with the GOATS.

[2much_knowledge]

Did you just compared Mchale to Love and Bosh? You are clearly retarded. Wade is the only top 25-30 player of all time, but he was clearly past his prime in 2013.

I did not compared no one. I just said Bird needed fewer allstar teammates to accomplish the same thing lebron did with more allstar teammates. Simple

[Lebron23]

I did not compared no one. I just said Bird needed fewer allstar teammates to accomplish the same thing lebron did with more allstar teammates. Simple

He won a championship last year with Davis as his only all star teammate. Mchale, Parish and DJ were all stars in Boston.

[Stephonit]

He won a championship last year with Davis as his only all star teammate. Mchale, Parish and DJ were all stars in Boston.

Oh stop it. LeBron was also playing with Dwight, Rondo, and Danny Green who've had deep playoffs success independently of James. Even JaVale McGee had two rings before joining the Lakers.

[Lebron23]

Oh stop it. LeBron was also playing with Dwight, Rondo, and Danny Green who've had deep playoffs success independently of James. Even JaVale McGee had two rings before joining the Lakers.

And LeBron carried them in the playoffs. And he was the Finals MVP

[Stephonit]

And LeBron carried them in the playoffs. And he was the Finals MVP

If you want an example of a player that carried a team in the playoffs look no further than the guy who led the team they faced that year: Jimmy Butler.

Now that's a guy who carried a team.

FMVPs as we should all know are useless awards.

[KirbyPls]

LeBron James. He'll double Birds finals mvp by the end of the season.

:cheers::applause:

[Axe]

If you want an example of a player that carried a team in the playoffs look no further than the guy who led the team they faced that year: Jimmy Butler.

Now that's a guy who carried a team.

FMVPs as we should all know are useless awards.
Too bad steph curry just couldn't do the same thing without klay. :confusedshrug:

[LAmbruh]

another landslide V for dem bois

[kawhileonard2]

He won a championship last year with Davis as his only all star teammate. Mchale, Parish and DJ were all stars in Boston.

The year before he didn't make the playoffs with no Davis around. Also Davis had the best stats raw and advanced on the team.

[Airupthere]

And LeBron carried them in the playoffs. And he was the Finals MVP

Carried? Wtf

[kawhileonard2]

And LeBron carried them in the playoffs. And he was the Finals MVP

Anthony Davis carried that team.

[mehyaM24]

this was back in 2019. since then lebron's won another title, fmvp and had an mvp-like season (two until he sat these games out with injury). both have similar numbers in their prime although lebron's defense gives him a little more impact i think. with longevity and more fmvps its hard to argue lebron hasn't passed larry.

[eliteballer]

:eek:

[kawhileonard2]

this was back in 2019. since then lebron's won another title, fmvp and had an mvp-like season (two until he sat these games out with injury). both have similar numbers in their prime although lebron's defense gives him a little more impact i think. with longevity and more fmvps its hard to argue lebron hasn't passed larry.
Lost to Devin Booker as well as the favorite.

[getting_old]

Prime Lebron was also the better rebounder.


I don't see LBJ getting 10 boards a game in a season.... need a few more beers i guess

[kawhileonard2]

I don't see LBJ getting 10 boards a game in a season.... need a few more beers i guess

:roll:

[kawhileonard2]

this was back in 2019. since then lebron's won another title, fmvp and had an mvp-like season (two until he sat these games out with injury). both have similar numbers in their prime although lebron's defense gives him a little more impact i think. with longevity and more fmvps its hard to argue lebron hasn't passed larry.

Lebron was switching teams like 4 times. Imagine Bird going from team to team stacking the deck with players in there primes. Scary!

[jayfan]

Argument can certainly be made that LeBron had the greater career. But if I had to choose one of them in their prime to lead my team in a 7 game series, I'm taking Bird.


.

[RogueBorg]

Lebron was switching teams like 4 times. Imagine Bird going from team to team stacking the deck with players in there primes. Scary!

That's a good point. What if Larry pulled a a Lebron and Durant and went to the Lakers, he'd have 7 rings just from that. Then, what if he jumped to the Bulls and got three more as a 6th man coming off the bench? If Bird pulled a modern day athlete he could have 10 rings. There would be no debate.

[kawhileonard2]

That's a good point. What if Larry pulled a a Lebron and Durant and went to the Lakers, he'd have 7 rings just from that. Then, what if he jumped to the Bulls and got three more as a 6th man coming off the bench? If Bird pulled a modern day athlete he could have 10 rings. There would be no debate.

Bird would have these Lakers as the #1 or #2 seed right now in place of Lebron

[SouBeachTalents]

Bird would have these Lakers as the #1 or #2 seed right now in place of Lebron
He also wouldn't have blown a 3-1 lead to the Nuggets. Or score 14 points on 6/22 in a Game 7.

[kawhileonard2]

He also wouldn't have blown a 3-1 lead to the Nuggets. Or score 14 points on 6/22 in a Game 7.

Bird also was up 2-0 with hca and lost in round 1 losing 3 straight as well to Knicks

[TheMan]

Longevity obv LBJ but peak play? Larry Legend by a mile

[SouBeachTalents]

Longevity obv LBJ but peak play? Larry Legend by a mile
Retarded.

[TheMan]

Retarded.

Butthurt

[mr4speed]

Argument can certainly be made that LeBron had the greater career. But if I had to choose one of them in their prime to lead my team in a 7 game series, I'm taking Bird.


.
This. I just watched a comparison of Jordan vs Lebron and per Basketballreference.com Lebron for his career has taken 33% of his shots from 0 to 3 feet and has made 73% of these shots. From outside of 3 feet Lebron has made 37.5% and in the playoffs has made 35.9% and in the last 2 minutes of games with a 5 point spread or less has made 31.7% Given Bird's better FT% and midrange % and 3 point % in a close game = I am taking peak Bird. Bird also seemed to be able to blend his talent better with whoever his teammates were, played off ball well and never quit.

[Johnny32]

bird got shit on badly in this thread. hate to see it.

[Nike D'Antoni]

The Eastern Conference finals MVP should have been Lebron James Trophy, and not Larry Bird Trophy.
NBA got that one wrong.

[kawhileonard2]

The Eastern Conference finals MVP should have been Lebron James Trophy, and not Larry Bird Trophy.
NBA got that one wrong.

How so?

[John8204]

The Eastern Conference finals MVP should have been Lebron James Trophy, and not Larry Bird Trophy.
NBA got that one wrong.

I think actually Lebron should be in the queue for the "logo"

Jerry West dies it goes to Kareem
Kareem dies it goes to Jordan
Jordan dies it goes to Lebron

[TheMan]

I think actually Lebron should be in the queue for the "logo"

Jerry West dies it goes to Kareem
Kareem dies it goes to Jordan
Jordan dies it goes to Lebron

It doesn't work that way but if it did, KAJ's image would be his sky hook, MJ's would be his Jumpman symbol and Bran's would be him flopping or his crab dribble, take your pick.

[ShawkFactory]

It doesn't work that way but if it did, KAJ's image would be his sky hook, MJ's would be his Jumpman symbol and Bran's would be him flopping or his crab dribble, take your pick.

Probably would be the full extension one hand tomahawk.

[kawhileonard2]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/michael-jordan-said-larry-bird-is-far-better-than-lebron-james-and-any-other-small-forward-in-nba-history/ar-AA15rLUf?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=451d1dd3812d4754b45cf83be30f124c

[kawhileonard2]

Bird would have broken Devin Booker and not lost in round 1.

[Patrick Chewing]

Larry Bird hands down

[kawhileonard2]

Bird wouldn’t have been swept by Denver

[CountDracula]

https://i.ibb.co/W2yPxPX/FA0-D42-D1-3857-4-C21-A271-D22715-AC8189.jpg (https://ibb.co/z4R7n7g)

https://i.ibb.co/0JxxCd3/AC02377-D-3-CD8-4197-B99-F-483-F2-C1247-BB.jpg (https://ibb.co/PCddcf8)

https://i.ibb.co/5LRBYzT/C8516683-BE0-C-401-E-90-E8-514-A2-BF85-BA9.jpg (https://ibb.co/KWrFNQ6)

https://i.ibb.co/kMMP1Q3/02-D57-B8-C-F52-A-4-C67-83-AC-EE36-EFE510-F3.jpg (https://ibb.co/1bb468s)

[Iverson3]

LeBron James. He'll double Birds finals mvp by the end of the season.

This guy told the truth.

[Iverson3]

https://i.ibb.co/W2yPxPX/FA0-D42-D1-3857-4-C21-A271-D22715-AC8189.jpg (https://ibb.co/z4R7n7g)

https://i.ibb.co/0JxxCd3/AC02377-D-3-CD8-4197-B99-F-483-F2-C1247-BB.jpg (https://ibb.co/PCddcf8)

https://i.ibb.co/5LRBYzT/C8516683-BE0-C-401-E-90-E8-514-A2-BF85-BA9.jpg (https://ibb.co/KWrFNQ6)

https://i.ibb.co/kMMP1Q3/02-D57-B8-C-F52-A-4-C67-83-AC-EE36-EFE510-F3.jpg (https://ibb.co/1bb468s)

Jordan never won a playoffs series against Bird

[Full Court]

Bird's peak didn't last as long as Lebron's, but his peak was higher, and he accomplished more without colluding and team hopping.

Bird, hands down.

[Iverson3]

Bird's peak didn't last as long as Lebron's, but his peak was higher, and he accomplished more without colluding and team hopping.

Bird, hands down.

retarded

[Full Court]

retarded

^Midget having a bitch fit.

[BarberSchool]

Let’s do one where Larry eats LeBron’s diet and takes the exact same PED’s LeBron takes. And starts his NBA career at 18.

And another where LeBron drops out of college and works as a garbage man while being an alcoholic for a year of his early prime, and gets a late start on his NBA career, while eating an American 1980’s diet with no PED’s

[Iverson3]

^Midget having a bitch fit.

You're 5'2, overweight and never play basketball. And you are jobless in your 40's.

[Iverson3]

Let’s do one where Larry eats LeBron’s diet and takes the exact same PED’s LeBron takes. And starts his NBA career at 18.

And another where LeBron drops out of college and works as a garbage man while being an alcoholic for a year of his early prime, and gets a late start on his NBA career, while eating an American 1980’s diet with no PED’s

LeBron is better than Bird. and He also owned your franchise since 20063

[BarberSchool]

LeBron is better than Bird. and He also owned your franchise since 20063
1. LeFraud as it stands now, discounting PED abuse, has clearly had a better all around set of career achievements than Bird, and was a vastly more impressive track and field athlete than Bird. But that’s not what my MF post had to do with.

2. LeFraud never owned even a tiny fraction of the Bulls franchise, you MF jerkoff. LeFraud lives in the effortless shadow of the greatest of all time, who was a Bull through his entire prime. Try harder.

[GimmeThat]

Let’s do one where Larry eats LeBron’s diet and takes the exact same PED’s LeBron takes. And starts his NBA career at 18.

And another where LeBron drops out of college and works as a garbage man while being an alcoholic for a year of his early prime, and gets a late start on his NBA career, while eating an American 1980’s diet with no PED’s

you make it sound like Larry Bird was born in Taiwan, and Lebron was born in China

[kawhileonard2]

you make it sound like Larry Bird was born in Taiwan, and Lebron was born in China

How so?

[Full Court]

You're 5'2, overweight and never play basketball. And you are jobless in your 40's.

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fc.tenor.com%2FEGKT274fWiYAAAAM%2F levro-james-nanay.gif&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=5b794fae431d03de942c8b9817283808d79105bf07193d c11294a82ba06e2ce3&ipo=images

[John8204]

LeBron is better than Bird. and He also owned your franchise since 20063


Bird's peak didn't last as long as Lebron's, but his peak was higher, and he accomplished more without colluding and team hopping.

Bird, hands down.

Both of you are right in a sense...Bird's peak was better because he came into the league and in 10 years made multiple finals and built an all-time great team. Lebron on the other hand took some time, had some dips and wasn't able to keep a true franchise together. The only reason Bird isn't in the GOAT discussion is he didn't play another 5 seasons and win 2 more rings. Otherwise he's got the case to be better than MJ...afterall MJ never beat Bird when it counted.

[kawhileonard2]

Both of you are right in a sense...Bird's peak was better because he came into the league and in 10 years made multiple finals and built an all-time great team. Lebron on the other hand took some time, had some dips and wasn't able to keep a true franchise together. The only reason Bird isn't in the GOAT discussion is he didn't play another 5 seasons and win 2 more rings. Otherwise he's got the case to be better than MJ...afterall MJ never beat Bird when it counted.

Bird lost to Ewing. Bird and MJ never played when MJ was in his prime. They played in MJ’s second and 3rd seasons when Bird was at his peak. Say they played from 1989 going forward then MJ wins each time.