Kawhi Leonard REDUCED Pascal Siakam

[StrongLurk]

Pascal went from averaging 17/7/3 to averaging 28/9/4 so far this year since Kawhi left.

According to a certain poster on this board, it's clear the Kawhi's playstyle reduced his teammates abilities to put up stats.

[AirBonner]

Pascal went from averaging 17/7/3 to averaging 28/9/4 so far this year since Kawhi left.

According to a certain poster on this board, it's clear the Kawhi's playstyle reduced his teammates abilities to put up stats.
Pascal without Kawhi is the 2nd coming of Hakeem :eek:

[Bronbron23]

Pascal went from averaging 17/7/3 to averaging 28/9/4 so far this year since Kawhi left.

According to a certain poster on this board, it's clear the Kawhi's playstyle reduced his teammates abilities to put up stats.
Nah he's just getting the ball more and literally anybody with a little skill and athleticism can look really good in this era.

[StrongLurk]

Nah he's just getting the ball more and literally anybody with a little skill and athleticism can look really good in this era.

So you agree, Kawhi's play style as the number 1 option reduced Siakam.

[Bronbron23]

So you agree, Kawhi's play style as the number 1 option reduced Siakam.
No not all. Siakam was still this good when kawhi was there. There's only so much ball though and kawhi is the better player. Reduced is a terrible choice of words.

[SpaceJam2]

Raptors are at a 63 win pace without Kawhi, going 23-7

17-5 last year
6-2 this year

Dude has been playing on stacked teams his whole career

[Wardell Curry]

Raptors are at a 63 win pace without Kawhi, going 23-7

17-5 last year
6-2 this year

Dude has been playing on stacked teams his whole career

It's pretty clear they wouldn't have won the title without him, but you're right.

I said something similar in a previous thread.

We probably will never really know how good he is or how good he isn't because he's never been on a bad team his whole career. The worst teams he's ever had were the post Duncan Spurs, and they were at least still mediocre. Popovich has never given the Spurs a bad team.

Day 1... he gets Duncan, Parker, Manu, Popovich and more as soon as he comes into the league.

Day 2... those guys retire, Spurs are still a playoff level team without him.

Day 3... Raptors were a very good team for a very long time and they added multiple key pieces besides Kawhi.

Day 4... Clippers took the fully loaded Warriors to 6 games last year... and now they've added Kawhi and PG while sacrificing little.


The Raptors were beyond stacked last year. Kawhi is an all time great, somewhere in the top 75 right now, maybe top 50 or higher... his peak play is way higher than 50 but I'm not sure his legacy is quite yet... but it's undeniable he's been in extremely fortunate circumstances his entire career, basically. He's one of the luckiest players in NBA history.

[SomeBlackDude]

nah. pascal just wasn't as good then. dude flourished before our eyes in real time. i could see him getting better and more comfortable on the court with every game last year during the playoffs. this season is just a continuation of that improvement.

plus he got the ring, so don't see how that counts as being 'reduced'.

[tpols]

nah... eye test how could that be?

kawhi doesnt dominate the ball... he spaces great... he draws the defense outwards... intangibly hes a quiet guy and doesnt step on toes.

No case here mate.

Pascal is just a straight G, darkness, dude is just cold.

[STATUTORY]

nah Kawhi just made Pascal better, u can clearly see the improvements in his game

[StrongLurk]

Hmm, okay. So it seems like everyone disagrees with my OP...which means they also disagree with a certain poster on this board about his reducing claims as well.

Jeff, we can wrap up this thread.

[STATUTORY]

Hmm, okay. So it seems like everyone disagrees with my OP...which means they also disagree with a certain poster on this board about his reducing claims as well.

Jeff, we can wrap up this thread.

Stronglurk with some StrongFalseEquivalences :rolleyes:

u wasting ur talents on ISH, should work in politics

[Wardell Curry]

nah... eye test how could that be?

kawhi doesnt dominate the ball... he spaces great... he draws the defense outwards... intangibly hes a quiet guy and doesnt step on toes.

No case here mate.

Pascal is just a straight G, darkness, dude is just cold.

Kawhi dominates the ball almost as much as LeBron does once he gets his hands on it. LeBron holds onto the ball for 5.04 seconds per touch of the ball and Kawhi holds onto it for 4.61.

For those of you curious, if you want to see the raw data behind the guys who really over dribble the ball, here it is...

https://stats.nba.com/players/touches/?sort=AVG_SEC_PER_TOUCH&dir=1

https://stats.nba.com/players/touches/?sort=AVG_DRIB_PER_TOUCH&dir=1

[tpols]

Kawhi dominates the ball almost as much as LeBron does once he gets his hands on it. LeBron holds onto the ball for 5.04 seconds per touch of the ball and Kawhi holds onto it for 4.61.

For those of you curious, if you want to see the raw data behind the guys who really over dribble the ball, here it is...

https://stats.nba.com/players/touches/?sort=AVG_SEC_PER_TOUCH&dir=1

https://stats.nba.com/players/touches/?sort=AVG_DRIB_PER_TOUCH&dir=1


Fake news.

Kawhi's total time of possession with the ball in his hands is nowhere near lebron's.

Not even close... cant believe you'd even argue it.

[StrongLurk]

Stronglurk with some StrongFalseEquivalences :rolleyes:

u wasting ur talents on ISH, should work in politics

U got got

[imdaman99]

No actually Siakam was always on an improvement scale and last year he got to witness first hand what it takes to become a superstar by watching kawhi play and practice. Kawhi showed him what it takes, guy needs to get more credit in Siakam's developments.

[Wardell Curry]

Fake news.

Kawhi's total time of possession with the ball in his hands is nowhere near lebron's.

Not even close... cant believe you'd even argue it.

LeBron just stands there holding onto the ball sometimes and it inflates his time of possession overall.

Per touch of the ball, Kawhi and LeBron both roughly hold onto the ball the same amount of time and per touch of the ball, they both dribble it almost the same amount exactly. LeBron is a far, far better passer with way better court vision than Kawhi, and as a result LeBron makes a lot of touch passes, which greatly reduces his possession time per touch statistic.

Siakam's time of possession has doubled or something from last year, which is the biggest reason for his jumped up statistics.

It's funny how there are really good players league wide that once you put them in the role of "the man" and their numbers jump way up, people act surprised.

[superduper]

Imagine saying Kawhi dominates the Ball as much as Bran wtf :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

These Brannies are out of control out here.

[Wardell Curry]

Imagine saying Kawhi dominates the Ball as much as Bran wtf :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

These Brannies are out of control out here.

Reading isn't something you're good at, we get it.

[SpaceJam2]

It's pretty clear they wouldn't have won the title without him, but you're right.

I said something similar in a previous thread.

We probably will never really know how good he is or how good he isn't because he's never been on a bad team his whole career. The worst teams he's ever had were the post Duncan Spurs, and they were at least still mediocre. Popovich has never given the Spurs a bad team.

Day 1... he gets Duncan, Parker, Manu, Popovich and more as soon as he comes into the league.

Day 2... those guys retire, Spurs are still a playoff level team without him.

Day 3... Raptors were a very good team for a very long time and they added multiple key pieces besides Kawhi.

Day 4... Clippers took the fully loaded Warriors to 6 games last year... and now they've added Kawhi and PG while sacrificing little.


The Raptors were beyond stacked last year. Kawhi is an all time great, somewhere in the top 75 right now, maybe top 50 or higher... his peak play is way higher than 50 but I'm not sure his legacy is quite yet... but it's undeniable he's been in extremely fortunate circumstances his entire career, basically. He's one of the luckiest players in NBA history.

Mic drop post of the year on Kawhi

Ouch

Big facts

[tpols]

LeBron just stands there holding onto the ball sometimes and it inflates his time of possession overall.

Per touch of the ball, Kawhi and LeBron both roughly hold onto the ball the same amount of time and per touch of the ball, they both dribble it almost the same amount exactly. LeBron is a far, far better passer with way better court vision than Kawhi, and as a result LeBron makes a lot of touch passes, which greatly reduces his possession time per touch statistic.

Siakam's time of possession has doubled or something from last year, which is the biggest reason for his jumped up statistics.

It's funny how there are really good players league wide that once you put them in the role of "the man" and their numbers jump way up, people act surprised.


You linked a stat for average seconds per touch to say lebron dominates the ball just as much as kawhi...




https://stats.nba.com/players/touches/?sort=AVG_SEC_PER_TOUCH&dir=1



Even if lebron holds the ball more, that wouldnt inflate the statistic anymore than dribbling would since it's purely time based.

The key determination that makes lebron's time of possession so much higher than kawhi's is the amount of touches per game...

Lebron gets 100.. Kawhi gets 65.

Huuuge difference. Kawhi lets his guys get many more touches, yet still produces like a superstar on far less touches.

You proved the ball domination point with these stats, thank you lol.

[Phenith]

He's not the same player, that year with Kawhi was a huge in his development, you could see Siakam getting better all season and it showed in the playoffs. This year he is that much more confident as a champ, had he not had Kawhi last year, he would have possibly even been stunted with DeRozan still in town.

[Bigsmoke]

Prior to this season, Siakam's best year was in the 2018- 2019 season when Kawhi was there:oldlol:

He did improve but his numbers are up mainly because he's playing a much bigger role in the offense now that kawhi is on another team.:hammerhead:

[k0kakw0rld]

Raptors are at a 63 win pace without Kawhi, going 23-7

17-5 last year
6-2 this year

Dude has been playing on stacked teams his whole career
Insecure much?:confusedshrug:

The man is willing to guard LeBron for 48 minutes. Meanwhile, Danny Green or Avery Bradley will be doing the job for Bron. Unfortunately for him, Paul George will also be on the court. He can't hide anymore on defense.

[RealSkipBayless]

It's pretty clear they wouldn't have won the title without him, but you're right.

I said something similar in a previous thread.

We probably will never really know how good he is or how good he isn't because he's never been on a bad team his whole career. The worst teams he's ever had were the post Duncan Spurs, and they were at least still mediocre. Popovich has never given the Spurs a bad team.

Day 1... he gets Duncan, Parker, Manu, Popovich and more as soon as he comes into the league.

Day 2... those guys retire, Spurs are still a playoff level team without him.

Day 3... Raptors were a very good team for a very long time and they added multiple key pieces besides Kawhi.

Day 4... Clippers took the fully loaded Warriors to 6 games last year... and now they've added Kawhi and PG while sacrificing little.


The Raptors were beyond stacked last year. Kawhi is an all time great, somewhere in the top 75 right now, maybe top 50 or higher... his peak play is way higher than 50 but I'm not sure his legacy is quite yet... but it's undeniable he's been in extremely fortunate circumstances his entire career, basically. He's one of the luckiest players in NBA history.
HUGE facts here... :applause:

[baudkarma]

Pascal went from averaging 17/7/3 to averaging 28/9/4 so far this year since Kawhi left.

According to a certain poster on this board, it's clear the Kawhi's playstyle reduced his teammates abilities to put up stats.

And he went from 7/5/2 the season before to 17/7/3 when Kawhi arrived. And from starting in only 5 games to starting in 79. Maybe Pascal is just working his ass off and getting better.

[DoctorP]

I think Kawhi reduced Siakam. Not complete flaccidity, but he wasn't as large as he could get.

[tontoz]

He was better last season than he got credit for. He averaged 19 per 36 minutes with excellent efficiency. Now he is getting more minutes and a lot more touches.

[ILLsmak]

Pascal went from averaging 17/7/3 to averaging 28/9/4 so far this year since Kawhi left.

According to a certain poster on this board, it's clear the Kawhi's playstyle reduced his teammates abilities to put up stats.

I like your posting style but you're missing subtlety and humor from your troll threads. You need to either post something so outlandish as the premise that it gets people upset or ease into it. A troll thread that doesn't offend anyone is kinda boring. Imo.

-Smak