Charles Barkley in those LeBron super teams...

[Angel Face]

How many Rings?

[SpaceJam]

Zero

[AussieSteve]

Assuming they are the same age, 2011 would have been 1990 Barkley.

He wins 2011, 2012, 2013 for sure.

2014, the heat were gutted by injury. Same with the Cavs in 2015. No one was taking either of those casts to a ring. By 2016 Chuck would have regressed and definitely wouldn't have gotten the cavs past those warriors.

I say three rings.

[3ball]

Any top 50 all-time player would win at least 3 rings in Miami... Many would go 4/4 as Lebron was expected to do and should've done

In Cleveland, Lebron failed to win 60 games with prime Kyrie and Love, while Curry won 70+ with Klay/Dray.. Various guys would've won 70 with Kyrie and Love, so the 16' Finals wouldn't be perceived as a mismatch or underdog victory..

Also, prime Kyrie and Love is enough for various guys to beat the Durant Warriors - if Houston can take them 7, then Lebron/Kyrie and company should've won.. many other guys would've won

[3ball]

Assuming they are the same age, 2011 would have been 1990 Barkley.

He wins 2011, 2012, 2013 for sure.

2014, the heat were gutted by injury. Same with the Cavs in 2015. No one was taking either of those casts yo a ring. By 2016 Chuck had regressed and definitely wouldn't have gotten the cavs past those warriors.

I say three rings.
Injured means the player didn't play

Everyone on the 2014 Heat played full minutes in those Finals, and Wade was coming off a great ECF where he averaged 20/5/5 on 55% (Lebron averaged basically the same.. 22 ppg)..

So the injury argument has always been a smoke screen to cover up the Heat's lesser brand of ball that was blown off the court by a much older core... anytime a team's brand is getting overtaken by the other team, many players won't have their best production - that's what happens when one team is getting destroyed, while the other is giving a basketball lesson.

it's funny because Wade was lights out in the 14' ECF but bad in the Finals, whereas Pippen was horrible in both the 98' ECF and Finals.... yet no one makes any excuses for the Bulls because MJ pulled it out... Maybe if the Bulls had lost, they'd blame it on.... Pippen being hurt like Wade was???.... Never... MJ would've been blamed because he was never babied like Lebron is

[Hey Yo]

Assuming they are the same age, 2011 would have been 1990 Barkley.

He wins 2011, 2012, 2013 for sure.

2014, the heat were gutted by injury. Same with the Cavs in 2015. No one was taking either of those casts to a ring. By 2016 Chuck would have regressed and definitely wouldn't have gotten the cavs past those warriors.

I say three rings.
Charles gonna play Point Forward? He's gonna run the offense like LeBron did? Or Heat going to rely on Bibby, Miller, Chalmers, Cole to pick up the the huge slack left at PG?

[Round Mound]

[B]3 Rings atleast. Past age 32 Barkley was constantly injured and he wasn

[3ball]

Charles gonna play Point Forward? He's gonna run the offense like LeBron did? Or Heat going to rely on Bibby, Miller, Chalmers, Cole to pick up the the huge slack left at PG?
The Heat were worse with Lebron playing point-forward than they would've been with a great shooter like Dirk, or pure scorer like Barkley, or many other players.

Ultimately, Lebron's point-forward style turned Heat lineups into 2-point guard lineups... 2-point guard lineups give teammates less time and assists than they get in 1-PG lineups - lower teammate assists lowers the TEAM'S assist rankings, which results in a low ball-movement brand that gets massively out-assisted in the championship and struggles on that level, aka 3/9..

^^^ The teammate and team assist stats back up everything I just said, so Wade and Bosh would've been far better next to Dirk or Barkley than they were next to Lebron...

Lebron's skillset is simply inferior to Dirk's pure shooting, so he needs more time to get his shot off and get stats in general.. Ultimately, Lebron has a lower-level CP3/Nash skillset, but he avoided the career-losing fate of his fellow ball-dominators by team-hopping for the extra talent this suboptimal style needs to win.

[Hey Yo]

The Heat were worse with Lebron playing point-forward than they would've been with a great shooter like Dirk, or pure scorer like Barkley, or many other players.
Replace LeBron with Barkley or Dirk, those teams PG's barely know to facilitate the offense, make equivalent passes or create their own shot.

Barkley isn't going to replace what LeBron did.

[AussieSteve]

Charles gonna play Point Forward? He's gonna run the offense like LeBron did? Or Heat going to rely on Bibby, Miller, Chalmers, Cole to pick up the the huge slack left at PG?

Barkley led offenses were consistently #1 in the league at Phoenix, and were #2 in back to back seasons at Philly (despite playing with scrubs). I think the heat would be fine with him playing a traditional PF role.

[3ball]

Replace LeBron with Barkley or Dirk, those teams PG's barely know to facilitate the offense, make equivalent passes or create their own shot.

Barkley isn't going to replace what LeBron did.
Lebron had multiple star teammates that didn't need anyone to get them shots..

Lebron simply replaces the ball movement that teams normally have with his ball-dominance - that isn't better for the other stars or the role players - role players have always gotten better looks via ball movement than 1 guy dominating the ball in the half court.

so Lebron's style is suboptimal and can't win... at least not without team-hopping for extra talent the style needs to win.. ultimately, his style turns teammates into spot-up shooters, so he can't develop teammates or teams and needs ready-made teams/stars to win.

[Round Mound]

Charles was easily the best passing power forward btw. Charles scoring ways where all basically contested as well as his rebounds unlike todays stars whom pile up easy points and rebounds through stat padding getting easy shots and rebounds. A 1990 angry Sir Charles was the 2nd most dominant player after MJ from 89 to 93.

[Smoke117]

Charles was easily the best passing power forward btw.

Yeah, that just isn't true. Kevin Garnett was better for sure.

[AussieSteve]

I think that if Barkley spent his prime years (88-93) on team with a decent cast and coach, he'd have ended up consensus top 10 all time. If he also had the kind of conditioning that athletes have today, and avoided his back injury at age 30, he may well have ended up fringe top 5.

There are very few players all time who you could say were clearly better than peak Barkley.

[AussieSteve]

Yeah, that just isn't true. Kevin Garnett was better for sure.

I'm obviously huge Barkley fan, but I'm going to agree with this one.

[Round Mound]

I think that if Barkley spent his prime years (88-93) on team with a decent cast and coach, he'd have ended up consensus top 10 all time. If he also had the kind of conditioning that athletes have today, and avoided his back injury at age 30, he may well have ended up fringe top 5.

There are very few players all time who you could say were clearly better than peak Barkley.

Agree :applause:

[Smoke117]

I'm obviously huge Barkley fan, but I'm going to agree with this one.

People have short memories in basketball and the Twolves of Garnett really never got most national play, but he was easily the best playmaking/passing PF in those days. He's most popular from his 30yr old days on the Celtics when he was on a team that got a lot of airtime, but people should remember that was a player past his prime.

[Round Mound]

Yeah, that just isn't true. Kevin Garnett was better for sure.

Garnett and Webber where the best passing big or tall PFs but Charles was like a guard passing wise: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQ9GMpWdelU

[Smoke117]

Garnett and Webber where the best passing big or tall PFs but Charles was like a guard passing wise: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQ9GMpWdelU

Kevin Garnett in his younger days moved around like a SF. He wasn't a clumsy big like Chris Webber. Coming up now Garnett would be more like a Giannis or Kevin Garnett. He just came into the league where his size made him a traditional big.

[Round Mound]

Kevin Garnett in his younger days moved around like a SF. He wasn't a clumsy big like Chris Webber. Coming up now Garnett would be more like a Giannis or Kevin Garnett. He just came into the league where his size made him a traditional big.

Garnett was a great passing PF but Charles to me was like a guard sometimes.

[Overdrive]

Charles gonna play Point Forward? He's gonna run the offense like LeBron did? Or Heat going to rely on Bibby, Miller, Chalmers, Cole to pick up the the huge slack left at PG?

Wade exists. When did the Heat have a traditional PG distributing the ball? They needed guys who could spot up next to Wade and later Lebron.


Kevin Garnett in his younger days moved around like a SF. He wasn't a clumsy big like Chris Webber. Coming up now Garnett would be more like a Giannis or Kevin Garnett. He just came into the league where his size made him a traditional big.

Garnett started out as a SF actually. Gugs playing PF.

[Gileraracer]

With all the help Lebron had over the years? AT LEAST 4. Maybe more.

[eliteballer]

3, maybe 4...with just Miami.

[PickernRoller]

2 rings is a very safe answer.

3 potentially.

I don't say 4 cause I've absolutely no doubt the league ain't pulling favors for Barkley in 2016.

[Keno]

zero, because lebron has had no super teams to begin with.

[90sgoat]

Webber was a better passer than Garnett, just didn't handle the ball as much.

[AirBonner]

Barkley once played on teams more stacked than any of LeBron

[90sgoat]

[QUOTE=AirBonner]Barkley once played on teams more stacked than any of LeBron

[AirBonner]

Wade is much better than Kevin Johnson.

Bosh is much better than Oliver Miller or Richard Dumas.
How was MJ the goat underdogs to them? Hm?

[90sgoat]

How was MJ the goat underdogs to them? Hm?

MJ had Pippen and a team of scrubs.

[elementally morale]

[QUOTE=AirBonner]Barkley once played on teams more stacked than any of LeBron

[AussieSteve]

[QUOTE=AirBonner]Barkley once played on teams more stacked than any of LeBron

[ImKobe]

Heat 3-Peat from 2011-13.