I think Kemba Walker is better than Kyrie

[Nike D'Antoni]

Just pure luck, Kyrie played with Lebron.But it is showing now with Celtics.

[GreatHILL]

they both suck and have no skills to lead a team.

[BigShotBob]

Not even. Jaylen Brown is playing out of his mind and Hayward had a good stretch of games and then you add in Robert Williams III having his own personal block parties and you have a situation that Kyrie never benefited from.

Regardless, they'll fall back down to Earth sooner or later.

[Celtics 1825]

Kyrie is a better player but Kemba's the better teammate

[Nike D'Antoni]

Not even. Jaylen Brown is playing out of his mind and Hayward had a good stretch of games and then you add in Robert Williams III having his own personal block parties and you have a situation that Kyrie never benefited from.

Regardless, they'll fall back down to Earth sooner or later.

Dont forget losing Horford, Baynes as well.

[And1AllDay]

kyrie will be in the hall becos of bran and 2016 and kemba wont but if they swapped teams kemba would be in the hall

[BigShotBob]

Dont forget losing Horford, Baynes as well.

Which is why they'll fall back down to Earth sooner or later. Lack of frontcourt depth.

[SpaceJam2]

kyrie will be in the hall becos of bran and 2016 and kemba wont but if they swapped teams kemba would be in the hall

bingo

[Manny98]

He isn't Kyrie is better at everything, Kemba sucks he's just a chucker

[Haymaker]

He is. Kyrie is just more talented and flashier. Kemba is a winner, good teammate and is coachable. Kyrie is a flashy diva who was lucky Lebron got him to the finals.

[Manny98]

He is. Kyrie is just more talented and flashier. Kemba is a winner, good teammate and is coachable. Kyrie is a flashy diva who was lucky Lebron got him to the finals.
Kemba is a "winner" who's won absolutely nothing in his career :oldlol:

He had his chance to prove how good he is in the World Cup and he choked embarrassingly against France. Kyrie would never choke like that and get locked up by Nkitina

He's simply not cut out for the big high pressure moments like Kyrie is

[ShawkFactory]

Realistically there is something to be had here.

Kyrie clearly has skills that Kemba doesn’t.

But outside of being Lebrons ace I’ve never seen anything that’s suggested that he can be the man. He’s akin to a great wide receiver that needs a good quarterback to get him the ball. The randy moss of basketball. He’s soft and he’s moody.

Kemba led an underdog UConn team to a natty.

If I wanted to sell tickets it’s kyrie but if I’m building a team? I’m not so sure.

[RRR3]

Kemba is a "winner" who's won absolutely nothing in his career :oldlol:

He had his chance to prove how good he is in the World Cup and he choked embarrassingly against France. Kyrie would never choke like that and get locked up by Nkitina

He's simply not cut out for the big high pressure moments like Kyrie is
He’d just choke and get embarrassed by George Hill instead.

[Manny98]

[QUOTE=RRR3]He

[Overdrive]

He clearly threw the series on purpose hence why he left :facepalm

So he pulled a Lebron?

[Nike D'Antoni]

This is becoming more evident.

[Gudo]

Better team player and just a better fit for the celtics. Kyrie’s still the better individual talent.

[Wally450]

The only thing Kyrie has on Kemba is handles. They’re very identical players. Kemba gets the nod because he can fit into any team. Kyrie is a cancer.

[red1]

kemba>

[Axe]

Kemba is not a crybaby unlike the other guy

[SATAN]

Axe is a prick

[Real Men Wear Green]

Irving is the better player. Walker is the better leader. Nothing new.

[CTbasketball92]

Kemba is a great player and there's not necessarily a huge gap between them, but Kyrie is definitely a better player.

The team that Kemba is on now is essentially the team people thought Kyrie was on last year and expected the Celtics to be by this point.

Kemba's got two all-star or above level two-way wings who can slash and shoot and handle the ball to some degree (Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown) and then he's also got Gordon Hayward, who averages like 17/5/5 on 60 TS% with strong defense. Kemba essentially has above average starter level wings at his disposal and that's pretty insane when you think about it. That doesn't even account for Marcus Smart, who's quietly one of the better 3&D guys in the league and can run an offense as maybe the best passer on the team.

By his last year in Boston, Kyrie had a notably diminished Al Horford, a younger Tatum who ranked as one of the worst high-volume ISO players in the league and who's growth was probably stunted most by simply his age, having Marcus Morris (justifiably at the time) take a more prominent role than him, a Terry Rozier who ran the offense and shot like a chicken with his head cut off and couldn't play without the ball, a Jaylen Brown who had his starting spot taken by Morris and didn't really take a step forward possibly as a result of that, a Gordon Hayward who averaged 7 points per game on 30% shooting and just 7 shots against the bucks in the postseason last year and...that's the size of it. Rozier and Morris are gone so there's less confusion. No one is force-feeding Hayward to get him healthy because he's already there and is back to being an above average player, as a result of natural growth and more opportunity, Jaylen and Jayson are both all-star level players who can nearly do it all. This is a very good team Kemba is on now.

Kemba's play style isn't noticeably different than Kyrie's, but he can afford to go 5/18 and have a bad game and still comfortably win. He plays more like the second option than the first. That's a luxury Kyrie didn't have last year. With Kyrie on this same team—assuming he's healthy—I'd actually take the celtics to come out of the east without question. Kemba is amazing, but at his very best Kyrie can outplay just about anyone. Last year he outplayed Kawhi in two head to head meetings and beat OKC, etc. He was really better than ever over the last two seasons, and Kemba in the same situation hasn't been as dominant.

That said, Kemba is about 85% the player that Kyrie is and has a better attitude, is less mercurial and really just a better teammate. He's also way more durable. That's why he's great for the celtics. They really couldn't have done better without getting Steph or Dame at the guard position.

[KD7]

Kemba isn't on the same tier as Kyrie, FOH :facepalm

[AlternativeAcc.]

Irving is the better player. Walker is the better leader. Nothing new.

Leadership is apart of basketball. Irving has more offensive talent. He's not the better player

If he was the better player he'd have a track record of winning and making teammates better. He doesnt. Im sure Kemba could've won next to LeBron too

Talent doesn't always equal better. Melo and Irving have a lot of offensive talent but i don't want them on my team. Westbrick is another extreme example. Its an interesting debate though

[ImKobe]

Leadership is apart of basketball. Irving has more offensive talent. He's not the better player

If he was the better player he'd have a track record of winning and making teammates better. He doesnt. Im sure Kemba could've won next to LeBron too

Talent doesn't always equal better. Melo and Irving have a lot of offensive talent but i don't want them on my team. Westbrick is another extreme example. Its an interesting debate though

Irving's the better player. He didn't work in Boston because Tatum got a taste of being a #1 option in the 2018 Playoffs and wanted to be the man moving forward, Irving's too alpha to let some kid take over like that. Kemba has no issue being the #2 or #3 option on most nights.

Irving made 3 Finals as the 2nd option/closer and outscored Curry in 2 of them (injured in the 1st one), what did Kemba do again exactly?

[AlternativeAcc.]

Irving's the better player. He didn't work in Boston because Tatum got a taste of being a #1 option in the 2018 Playoffs and wanted to be the man moving forward, Irving's too alpha to let some kid take over like that. Kemba has no issue being the #2 or #3 option on most nights.

Irving made 3 Finals as the 2nd option/closer and outscored Curry in 2 of them (injured in the 1st one), what did Kemba do again exactly?
Your rebuttal is irving made the finals with LeBron

That is so deep, man.

Kemba is about to make the finals on the same team Irving Sabatoged

The Cavs made the finals after Irving left, his impact is nonexistent

[ImKobe]

Your rebuttal is irving made the finals with LeBron

That is so deep, man.

Kemba is about to make the finals on the same team Irving Sabatoged

The Cavs made the finals after Irving left, his impact is nonexistent

Yes, Irving was a reliable scoring option in high-pressure Playoff moments, came through more often than not when he was in that position. Ok, so he played with Lebron, but Lebron still had him ISOing at the end of games in the biggest moments (Game 7 of the Finals, Lebron tells Lue to call that play for Irving), that's how much Lebron trusted that guy. Is Kemba as good of an ISO scorer as Irving? The answer is no.

Irving didn't sabotage shit, they lost to a great team that Boston had no answer for. Tatum and Hayward combined for 19 ppg on sub-40% shooting, it wasn't like the rest of the team played well and Irving killed them by himself, they all played a hand in it. Rozier thought he should be starting PG over Irving after the 2018 run, Tatum thought he was gonna be the #1 option moving forward as well. Bucks would have whooped their ass again had they met in the semis. Cavs barely made the Finals & got swept because the Celtics were injured, it took Jeff Green going off in Game 7 with Boston struggling big time in the 2nd half to win that series.

[imdaman99]

Leadership is apart of basketball. Irving has more offensive talent. He's not the better player

If he was the better player he'd have a track record of winning and making teammates better. He doesnt. Im sure Kemba could've won next to LeBron too

Talent doesn't always equal better. Melo and Irving have a lot of offensive talent but i don't want them on my team. Westbrick is another extreme example. Its an interesting debate though

Westbrook made the playoffs on his own talentless team. Kyrie hasn't, Melo hasn't. Don't lump them together.

[ImKobe]

Westbrook made the playoffs on his own talentless team. Kyrie hasn't, Melo hasn't. Don't lump them together.

Westbrook didn't win a series in OKC post-KD. Irving was injured for the 2018 Playoffs but he did win a Playoff series without Lebron last year. Melo also led a team to the WCF and made the 2nd round on the Knicks with JR Smith as his 2nd option, when they lost to the Pacers in 6. Imagine that. Knicks won 54 games & had the 3rd best offense in the league and JR Smith was their 2nd leading scorer and he wasn't even a starter..Knicks were 7 - 8 without Melo that season.

[RRR3]

Kemba is without question better for the Celtics. He’s not more talented but he’s a good locker room guy and he is happy letting Tatum be the first option. Kyrie would never have been okay with that.

[KD7]

Kemba is without question better for the Celtics. He’s not more talented but he’s a good locker room guy and he is happy letting Tatum be the first option. Kyrie would never have been okay with that.

So Kemba is a beta that's what your basically saying :oldlol:

And lol at people saying Kemba is a better leader, what has he even lead :oldlol:

Kemba sucks don't ever compare him to Kyrie :facepalm

[RRR3]

So Kemba is a beta that's what your basically saying :oldlol:

And lol at people saying Kemba is a better leader, what has he even lead :oldlol:

Kemba sucks don't ever compare him to Kyrie :facepalm
Celtics would be back in Boston rn if they had Kyrie instead of Kemba that’s what I’m saying. Enjoy your 45 win team next year.

[ThatCoolKid]

Yes, Irving was a reliable scoring option in high-pressure Playoff moments, came through more often than not when he was in that position. Ok, so he played with Lebron, but Lebron still had him ISOing at the end of games in the biggest moments (Game 7 of the Finals, Lebron tells Lue to call that play for Irving), that's how much Lebron trusted that guy. Is Kemba as good of an ISO scorer as Irving? The answer is no.

Irving didn't sabotage shit, they lost to a great team that Boston had no answer for. Tatum and Hayward combined for 19 ppg on sub-40% shooting, it wasn't like the rest of the team played well and Irving killed them by himself, they all played a hand in it. Rozier thought he should be starting PG over Irving after the 2018 run, Tatum thought he was gonna be the #1 option moving forward as well. Bucks would have whooped their ass again had they met in the semis. Cavs barely made the Finals & got swept because the Celtics were injured, it took Jeff Green going off in Game 7 with Boston struggling big time in the 2nd half to win that series.

Kyrie against the Bucks:
20.4 / 4.4 / 6.4 on 35.6 / 21.9 / 91.3 shooting 44.7 true shooting usage rate 31.2 % Offensive rating 90 Defensive Rating 111

Horford, Brown, Morris all played pretty well scoring more than both Hayward and Tatum who you brought up, and all 3 did it on good efficiency. If you watched that series at the time people were shitting all over Kyrie for how poorly he played. If Lebron has a series like that he is accused of quitting on his team for the rest of his career. The fact that people don't make a bigger deal of this than they do indicates that the expectations are just not that high for Kyrie. He's not a top impact player. You're correct he is an incredible scoring talent and is a great closer. But his playmaking/court vision is average which severely limits his impact (he can get his own shot, but does not consistently generate great offense for others, and when his own shot isn't falling he is a huge negative) and his defense is mediocre to poor. Next to an elite high impact player who can handle generating high efficiency offense until the last 5 minutes of the game where Kyrie can then do his thing Kyrie will look fantastic. On his own team (or even when Lebron went to the bench on those Cavs teams) Kyrie's lack of tangible impact is glaring. Those Cavs teams when Lebron went to the bench and Kyrie was expected to run the offense were absolute shit, partly because they were very poor defensively (not totally Kyrie's fault) and in part, because Kyrie could not run 10% of the efficient offense that Lebron could. And all of this is without even touching on his locker room presence.

That being said, if KD is back to 80-90% of what he was, Kyrie will likely look pretty good next year. KD is enough to mask Kyrie's deficiencies.

[KD7]

Celtics would be back in Boston rn if they had Kyrie instead of Kemba that’s what I’m saying. Enjoy your 45 win team next year.

:facepalm

[RRR3]

:facepalm
Are you under the impression that you’re getting prime KD? The only player to ever be the same after reading his Achilles was Dominique Wilkins. The odds are KD is done as a superstar. Kyrie and a washed up KD aren’t winning shit with that supporting cast. If KD is the same that all changes of course but I wouldn’t count on it.

[KD7]

Are you under the impression that you’re getting prime KD? The only player to ever be the same after reading his Achilles was Dominique Wilkins. The odds are KD is done as a superstar. Kyrie and a washed up KD aren’t winning shit with that supporting cast. If KD is the same that all changes of course but I wouldn’t count on it.
Have you seen the KD footage?

He looks better than ever and Nash is going to elevate Kyrie to new levels as a point guard

Plus we don't need KD to be "prime KD" when you have guys like LeVert, Dinwiddie & Allen who can also dominate

[RRR3]

Have you seen the KD footage?

He looks better than ever and Nash is going to elevate Kyrie to new levels as a point guard

Plus we don't need KD to be "prime KD" when you have guys like LeVert, Dinwiddie & Allen who can also dominate
LeVert is horrendous :oldlol:

Allen is meh and Dinwiddie is a good sixth man. Stop overrating your team.

[KD7]

LeVert is horrendous :oldlol:

Allen is meh and Dinwiddie is a good sixth man. Stop overrating your team.
Stop trolling LeVert was literally playing like a all star in the bubble :facepalm

Also Allen > Adebayo especially on defense, Allen is the best shot blocker in the NBA & is set to take a major leap next season

[CTbasketball92]

Kyrie against the Bucks:
20.4 / 4.4 / 6.4 on 35.6 / 21.9 / 91.3 shooting 44.7 true shooting usage rate 31.2 % Offensive rating 90 Defensive Rating 111

Horford, Brown, Morris all played pretty well scoring more than both Hayward and Tatum who you brought up, and all 3 did it on good efficiency. If you watched that series at the time people were shitting all over Kyrie for how poorly he played. If Lebron has a series like that he is accused of quitting on his team for the rest of his career. The fact that people don't make a bigger deal of this than they do indicates that the expectations are just not that high for Kyrie. He's not a top impact player. You're correct he is an incredible scoring talent and is a great closer. But his playmaking/court vision is average which severely limits his impact (he can get his own shot, but does not consistently generate great offense for others, and when his own shot isn't falling he is a huge negative) and his defense is mediocre to poor. Next to an elite high impact player who can handle generating high efficiency offense until the last 5 minutes of the game where Kyrie can then do his thing Kyrie will look fantastic. On his own team (or even when Lebron went to the bench on those Cavs teams) Kyrie's lack of tangible impact is glaring. Those Cavs teams when Lebron went to the bench and Kyrie was expected to run the offense were absolute shit, partly because they were very poor defensively (not totally Kyrie's fault) and in part, because Kyrie could not run 10% of the efficient offense that Lebron could. And all of this is without even touching on his locker room presence.

That being said, if KD is back to 80-90% of what he was, Kyrie will likely look pretty good next year. KD is enough to mask Kyrie's deficiencies.


I don't think we can use one playoff series to determine everything. He must've shot like 28% on jumpers he usually hits at 46-50%. That can happen sure, but sometimes your shots won't fall. I'd say his playmaking is a bit above average. People were pretty down on Kyrie after his performance and that kind of obscured a good to very good performance against the Pacers, who were a great defensive team, despite not shooting efficiently. Those Cavs teams were horribly constructed and I think only a top 5 player would really do well with that roster.

[Real Men Wear Green]

So Kemba is a beta that's what your basically saying :oldlol:

And lol at people saying Kemba is a better leader, what has he even lead :oldlol:

Kemba sucks don't ever compare him to Kyrie :facepalm

It isn't worth repeating but I will point out that you're an idiot anyway. Being willing to let a talented teammate take a major role is just being a team player. In no way does it diminish Walker.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Have you seen the KD footage?

He looks better than ever and Nash is going to elevate Kyrie to new levels as a point guard

Plus we don't need KD to be "prime KD" when you have guys like LeVert, Dinwiddie & Allen who can also dominate

What KD footage? Whatever you saw was not in an NBA game so how could he look better than ever?

[KD7]

What KD footage? Whatever you saw was not in an NBA game so how could he look better than ever?

Looks as explosive as ever, reminder KD tore his left acchiles and he explodes off his right foot so it's not going to affect him as much as other players that had that injury


https://youtu.be/UWDXOwUEM5A

[Axe]

Axe is a prick
You don't even know what that is, you fukking buffoon. ./.