Kobe

[AirBonner]

Kobe Bryant

[SpaceJam2]

Its why they are always linked when it comes to style. Its not a praise for Kobe its a knock on MJ. Imagine if LeBron's style was compared to a 12be like Kobe :lol

Lebron's getting Magic + MJ hybrid comparisons
MJ is getting Kobe and Demar Derozan comparisons

:lol

[AirBonner]

Its why they are always linked when it comes to style. Its not a praise for Kobe its a knock on MJ. Imagine if LeBron's style was compared to a 12be like Kobe :lol

Lebron's getting Magic + MJ hybrid comparisons
MJ is getting Kobe and Demar Derozan comparisons

:lol
To be fair to MJ he

[Bronbron23]

Its why they are always linked when it comes to style. Its not a praise for Kobe its a knock on MJ. Imagine if LeBron's style was compared to a 12be like Kobe :lol

Lebron's getting Magic + MJ hybrid comparisons
MJ is getting Kobe and Demar Derozan comparisons

:lol
Only people who don't know the game say DeRozan plays like mj. Your just exposing yourself when you say you that. And the original dosnt get compared to the duplicate. It's the other way around

[SpaceJam2]

Only people who don't know the game say DeRozan plays like mj. Your just exposing yourself when you say you that. And the original dosnt get compared to the duplicate. It's the other way around

EDUCATION TIME: Bulls swapped MJ for Pete Myers (1994) and only dropped by 2 wins (59 to 57)

You telling me DeRozan doesnt take Chicago to the chip when MJ left? :lol

Next

[superduper]

There's a reason dude is the undisputed GOAT bruh

[Bronbron23]

EDUCATION TIME: Bulls swapped MJ for Pete Myers (1994) and only dropped by 2 wins (59 to 57)

You telling me DeRozan doesnt take Chicago to the chip when MJ left? :lol

Next
If DeRozan was such a difference maker and on mj's level why couldn't he win in Toronto? As soon as he leaves a slower less athletic of mj comes in and wins a chip. There's a history lesson for your ass.

[Kiddlovesnets]

That

[Vino24]

[QUOTE=Kiddlovesnets]That

[Bronbron23]

[QUOTE=AirBonner]Kobe Bryant

[RRR3]

Rookie MJ BPM: 8.2


Kobe career best BPM: 6.4 in 02-03



Ouch.

[superduper]

Mj is better than Kobe but rookie mj wasn't as good as prime Kobe. The stats dont tell the story alone. There's a huge difference between getting great stats on a great championship team and getting great stats on a bad team.

High IQ take

[ImKobe]

[QUOTE=AirBonner]Kobe Bryant

[RRR3]

Kobe - 95.6 pace, 57 wins
MJ - 99.4 pace, 38 wins

Also, MJ was 21/22 years old, Kobe at same age averaged 29.4/7.3/6.1 for a 15 - 1 championship run.
BPM?

Sorry man, but it’s not insane to say rookie MJ was better than peak Kobe if we’re talking stats.

[ImKobe]

[QUOTE=RRR3]BPM?

Sorry man, but it

[RRR3]

BPM (especially defensive) is not a very accurate stat as its own creators admitted, I wouldn't read too much into that stat. Also, a player shooting well on a bad team would get a higher OBPM than a player shooting the same on a team that had a better average TS%. There are other issues with that statistic as well. It's one of the least important stats but you're obsessed about it beause it supports your argument, but I doubt you know anything about how it's actually calculated.

Can you tell me why Steve Nash was only 13th and 9th in OBPM during his MVP seasons while running the 1st and 2nd best offenses in the league?
What stats would you like to go by?

And regardless, it’s at least debatable. And by year 3 MJ was without a doubt better than any version of Kobe. You can’t argue that.

[RoseCity07]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

BPM?

Sorry man, but it’s not insane to say rookie MJ was better than peak Kobe if we’re talking stats.

Well, lucky for most of us we watch games. I know that's a foreign concept for a lot of you but try it out.

BPM is a box score variant anyway. And adds raw numbers together. Its nowhere near metrics like RPM and RAPM that actually measure impact.

Rookie MJ wasn't better than MVP Kobe. I'd say for most of his career Jordan was better though. From 87-98, for example, you could say Mike was the better player. But that would require actually talking about his game. Not just his numbers.

[RRR3]

Well, lucky for most of us we watch games. I know that's a foreign concept for a lot of you but try it out.

BPM is a box score variant anyway. And adds raw numbers together. Its nowhere near metrics like RPM and RAPM that actually measure impact.

Rookie MJ wasn't better than MVP Kobe. I'd say for most of his career Jordan was better though. From 87-98, for example, you could say Mike was the better player. But that would require actually talking about his game. Not just his numbers.
ImKobe was using stats :ohwell:

We don’t have RPM or RAPM from back then, but would you honestly be shocked if rookie MJ graded out better in those categories?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

ImKobe was using stats :ohwell:

We don’t have RPM or RAPM from back then, but would you honestly be shocked if rookie MJ graded out better in those categories?

Yeah somewhat.

Because I think Kobe was better.

More polished, clearly a better shooter and already had the experience of winning 3 chips. A seasoned vet in the game.

I'm a huge collector of Jordan games btw. Or was when that was my hobby. I have every game from his rookie year available in circulation. Bottom line, I think it was close because of his freakish athleticism. And his ability to finish @ the rim. But again...Kobe's game and knowledge was more refined at 29 versus Jordan's 21.

[RRR3]

Yeah somewhat.

Because I think Kobe was better.

More polished, clearly a better shooter and already had the experience of winning 3 chips. A seasoned vet in the game.

I'm a huge collector of Jordan games btw. Or was when that was my hobby. I have every game from his rookie year available in circulation. Bottom line, I think it was close because of his freakish athleticism. And his ability to finish @ the rim. But again...Kobe's game and knowledge was more refined at 29 versus Jordan's 21.
How about Jordan at 23? 37 PPG year.

[ImKobe]

[QUOTE=RRR3]ImKobe was using stats :ohwell:

We don

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

How about Jordan at 23? 37 PPG year.

I would take 87-98 Jordan over every version of Kobe.

So that would include that year.

Better scorer. Defender. Motor. Athlete. Decision maker etc. The only thing Kobe had on him was long distance shooting. Mike made up for that with his incredible midrange and slashing tho. 90-93 Jordan also shot the 3 better than peak Kobe in the playoffs.

[ArbitraryWater]

Yeah somewhat.

Because I think Kobe was better.

More polished, clearly a better shooter and already had the experience of winning 3 chips. A seasoned vet in the game.

I'm a huge collector of Jordan games btw. Or was when that was my hobby. I have every game from his rookie year available in circulation. Bottom line, I think it was close because of his freakish athleticism. And his ability to finish @ the rim. But again...Kobe's game and knowledge was more refined at 29 versus Jordan's 21.

Thats not really specific, "game and knowledge".. how exactly does that come into play on the court?

I remember Indian_guy defined it nicely, when he said why '06 Kobe is better than '06 LeBron, which was basically the same maturity argument as here of course, but I liked how he explained it.

[eliteballer]

Jordan was 21/22 as a rookie.

Look at Kobe stats in 2001 at age 22..

[Vino24]

Jordan was 21/22 as a rookie.

Look at Kobe stats in 2001 at age 22..
Sure you want to use that argument? Cuz LeBron shits on both of them :oldlol:

[ImKobe]

Sure you want to use that argument? Cuz LeBron shits on both of them :oldlol:

Lebron at age 22 averaged 25/8/8 on 41.6%FG in the Playoffs with 22/7/7 5.8 TOV on 36/20/69 splits in the Finals against the Spurs in a 0-4 loss. Kobe at age 22 put up 29/7/6 on 47%FG in the Playoffs with 33/7/7 51%FG in a 4-0 win against the Spurs. Kobe also did his damage in the hand-check era while Lebron played under softer rules.

[RRR3]

Lebron at age 22 averaged 25/8/8 on 41.6%FG in the Playoffs with 22/7/7 5.8 TOV on 36/20/69 splits in the Finals against the Spurs in a 0-4 loss. Kobe at age 22 put up 29/7/6 on 47%FG in the Playoffs with 33/7/7 51%FG in a 4-0 win against the Spurs. Kobe also did his damage in the hand-check era while Lebron played under softer rules.
Kobe had peak Shaq. LeBron had Zydrunas Ilgauskas. :oldlol:

[Vino24]

Lebron at age 22 averaged 25/8/8 on 41.6%FG in the Playoffs with 22/7/7 5.8 TOV on 36/20/69 splits in the Finals against the Spurs in a 0-4 loss. Kobe at age 22 put up 29/7/6 on 47%FG in the Playoffs with 33/7/7 51%FG in a 4-0 win against the Spurs. Kobe also did his damage in the hand-check era while Lebron played under softer rules.
It

[eliteballer]

Kobe had peak Shaq. LeBron had Zydrunas Ilgauskas. :oldlol:

LeBron had Roids..

[ImKobe]

Kobe had peak Shaq. LeBron had Zydrunas Ilgauskas. :oldlol:

Kobe played the Spurs in the 2008 WCF with Pau averaging 13/10 on 45%FG, he beat them 4 - 1 while Lebron got swept with his 2nd option putting up 13/8 on 50%FG.

[RRR3]

duh hyuk hyuk hyuk!
Germany.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Thats not really specific, "game and knowledge".. how exactly does that come into play on the court?

I remember Indian_guy defined it nicely, when he said why '06 Kobe is better than '06 LeBron, which was basically the same maturity argument as here of course, but I liked how he explained it.

How much more specific can you be...with the obvious?

Kobe was better in the post, had better footwork, and was clearly a better shooter. But most important, Kobe was a greater half-court scorer.

Its the little things too. Jordan rushing on a fadeaway or trying to find a seam in the defense that just wasn't there. Game management. Kobe also ran the triangle to perfection, or close to it during his MVP year. That's not something we would have seen Jordan do. Or liked anyway. He hated the offense initially and broke it often when Jax took over as head coach.

But again...all of that is experience. While Kobe had his faults, at 29 naturally he was a more polished player. And basically as efficient.

[RRR3]

Kobe played the Spurs in the 2008 WCF with Pau averaging 13/10 on 45%FG, he beat them 4 - 1 while Lebron got swept with his 2nd option putting up 13/8 on 50%FG.
Damn peak Kobe was better than 22 year old LeBron. Congrats.

[ImKobe]

Damn peak Kobe was better than 22 year old LeBron. Congrats.

Point is Lebron wasn't better at 22.

[Vino24]

Welp that

[RRR3]

Point is Lebron wasn't better at 22.
Than Peak Kobe? No.

Not sure how that’s supposed to mean anything.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Than Peak Kobe? No.

Not sure how that’s supposed to mean anything.

So when did Lebron become better?

[RRR3]

So when did Lebron become better?
2009 would seem to be the year.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

2009 would seem to be the year.

No arguments for Kobe or what?

What year do most Lebron fans think his prime started anyway? I see arguments made about 2006. Think he averaged 30/5/5 that year.

[RRR3]

No arguments for Kobe or what?

What year do most Lebron fans think his prime started anyway? I see arguments made about 2006. Think he averaged 30/5/5 that year.
I don’t see a rational argument for Kobe in 09. LeBron’s stats are overwhelming that year and he led a pretty weak cast to 66 wins.

Idk when his prime started. Maybe 06? His peak started in 09 and lasted through 13.

[3ball]

Lebron at age 22 averaged 25/8/8 on 41.6%FG in the Playoffs with 22/7/7 5.8 TOV on 36/20/69 splits in the Finals against the Spurs in a 0-4 loss.

Kobe at age 22 put up 29/7/6 on 47%FG in the Playoffs with 33/7/7 51%FG in a 4-0 win against the Spurs.

Kobe also did his damage in the hand-check era while Lebron played under softer rules.


These facts are definitive... Kobe destroys lebron against the same comp, same age

Kobe was clearly better

[3ball]

I don’t see a rational argument for Kobe in 09. LeBron’s stats are overwhelming that year and he led a pretty weak cast to 66 wins.

Idk when his prime started. Maybe 06? His peak started in 09 and lasted through 13.
Here's the rational argument:

Kobe won his first ring as "the man" that year while lebron wouldn't do that for 4 more seasons, during which he lost 3 straight times as the heavy favorite in the 09-11' playoffs

So despite lebron's stats in 2009 and his regular season run, he didn't know how to beat teams he was supposed to beat in the playoffs - 3 straight years he lost as the favorite - he simply didn't know how to win; whereas Kobe did.. that's the argument

[stalkerforlife]

Kobe - 95.6 pace, 57 wins
MJ - 99.4 pace, 38 wins

Also, MJ was 21/22 years old, Kobe at same age averaged 29.4/7.3/6.1 for a 15 - 1 championship run.

Mmm.

Yummy.

Nighty night, Simon.

[stalkerforlife]

BPM (especially defensive) is not a very accurate stat as its own creators admitted, I wouldn't read too much into that stat. Also, a player shooting well on a bad team would get a higher OBPM than a player shooting the same on a team that had a better average TS%. There are other issues with that statistic as well. It's one of the least important stats but you're obsessed about it beause it supports your argument, but I doubt you know anything about how it's actually calculated.

Can you tell me why Steve Nash was only 13th and 9th in OBPM during his MVP seasons while running the 1st and 2nd best offenses in the league?

Damn, more dessert.

Mmm.

Tasty.

Nighty night, Simon.

[hiphopanonymous]

Its why they are always linked when it comes to style. Its not a praise for Kobe its a knock on MJ. Imagine if LeBron's style was compared to a 12be like Kobe :lol

Lebron's getting Magic + MJ hybrid comparisons
MJ is getting Kobe and Demar Derozan comparisons

:lol
wait, wut? :oldlol:

[stalkerforlife]

Lebron at age 22 averaged 25/8/8 on 41.6%FG in the Playoffs with 22/7/7 5.8 TOV on 36/20/69 splits in the Finals against the Spurs in a 0-4 loss. Kobe at age 22 put up 29/7/6 on 47%FG in the Playoffs with 33/7/7 51%FG in a 4-0 win against the Spurs. Kobe also did his damage in the hand-check era while Lebron played under softer rules.

:eek: