Why is the history harsh on Kobe?

[Angel Face]

Look! the guy currently ranks at the 14th spot of most all time rankings by sports writers. A 5 time NBA champion with 2 FMVP and all NBA first teams and all NBA defensive first teams and many more ranked only at 14th spot of ATGs?

I am no Kobe fan or whatsoever, but history is harsh on this guy.

[RRR3]

His fans are incredibly annoying and overrate him. More than any other group of player fans. They’ve also obsessively hated on anyone perceived as ever being better than Kobe (T-Mac, Wade and ESPECIALLY LeBron) for well over a decade.

[ImKobe]

"history". Only an idiot on ISH would believe that a couple fat & white online "analysts" have any saying on Kobe's history.

[ArbitraryWater]

Most see that he has been romanticized immensely


He's a glorified volume scorer

[FKAri]

"history". Only an idiot on ISH would believe that a couple fat & white online "analysts" have any saying on Kobe's history.
Who else should I believe? Some nigguhs who jump high?

[Bronbron23]

Look! the guy currently ranks at the 14th spot of most all time rankings by sports writers. A 5 time NBA champion with 2 FMVP and all NBA first teams and all NBA defensive first teams and many more ranked only at 14th spot of ATGs?

I am no Kobe fan or whatsoever, but history is harsh on this guy.
Same thing will happen with Bron. Just watch. When Kobe was relevant and in his prime dropping 80 plus and winning chips there was a debate on if he was as good or better than mj. Once he started to decline and the retire that talk all but stopped and now he's fallen way down the rankings in most people's eyes.

Same thing is happening with LeBron. He's still relevant and still close to his prime so the LeBron vs mj debate is strong. When LeBron starts significantly declining and then retires that will die down a bit. Some new player will come along(probably Greek) and people will forget about LeBron and start comparing Greek to mj. Just wait and see

[tpols]

He's a victim of the stat nerd generation that cant comprehend context.

To them, elite individual efficiency totally supercedes making teammates better and timely play making.

Anyone that recognizes true game knows he's a top 5-10 GOAT at worst.

[Vino24]

Because Kobe without Shaq was Iverson

[Bronbron23]

Because Kobe without Shaq was Iverson
So Iverson won 2 chips that nobody knows about. Good to know :facepalm

[Vino24]

So Iverson won 2 chips that nobody knows about. Good to know :facepalm
So Iverson played with a top 2 Power forward?

[ImKobe]

Who else should I believe? Some nigguhs who jump high?

Yeah, let's go with the armchair experts who never played ball over NBA players/coaches/executives.

[tontoz]

He took more long, contested jumpers than anyone. Ever.

He kept doing it even after they got rid of the hand check making it much easier to drive.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Most see that he has been romanticized immensely


He's a glorified volume scorer

Most greats are volume scorers.

What are you saying?

[Bronbron23]

He took more long, contested jumpers than anyone. Ever.

He kept doing it even after they got rid of the hand check making it much easier to drive.
Kawhi takes long two's and he's the best player in the world right now.

[RRR3]

Kawhi takes long two's and he's the best player in the world right now.
Kawhi takes smarter shots.

[tontoz]

Kawhi takes long two's and he's the best player in the world right now.


Kawhi typically has good separation when taking a shot. Kobe would have a guy (maybe 2) in his grill and still jack them up.

Kobe would take fadeaways from 20 feet. I never saw anyone force up more bad shots than Kobe.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Tontoz is spot-on about Kobe btw.

Dude probably had worse shot selection than AI, who never saw a shot he didn't like.

Its hilarious to think despite that, he was STILL efficient. Most of his prime, 01-10, Kobe was basically as efficient as second 3-peat Jordan. But that's why there's a game within a game. Ergo...more than just stats.

[Bronbron23]

Kawhi takes smarter shots.
Yeah for sure. I actually like both guys. I just think this whole long 2 stuff is blown out of proportion. Mj shot long 2's and he has 6 rings. Kobe shot long 2's and he has 5 rings. Kawhi is still playing but he shoots long 2's and he's on Pace to win around the same. There's nothing wrong with long 2's. Kobe just took things a little to far at times with the degree of difficulty.

[3ball]

He's a victim of the stat nerd generation that cant comprehend context.

To them, elite individual efficiency totally supercedes making teammates better and timely play making.

Anyone that recognizes true game knows he's a top 5-10 GOAT at worst.
I couldn't decide whether to quote this post or the one before it

[tontoz]

Jordan probably didn't take half as many long jumpers as Kobe. Jordan didn't like 3s or long, contested 2s.

Typically he was closer to the rim, and had separation, when he took a jumper. It was pretty rare for him to take a jumper and i would think 'that was a forced shot'.

Shot selection was the primary difference between Jordan and Kobe.

Those jumpers Kawhi was taking in the playoffs weren't forced shots. He would either have separation or have the defender off balance before going up.

Kobe would shoot 3s or long 2s even after multiple shot fakes when the defenders stayed down.

[3ball]

Considering his shot selection, Kobe's jumpshooting efficiency was goat

he might be the most skilled jumpshooter ever due to the sheer variety of jumpers that he can get off and at great efficiency given the degree of difficulty

Ultimately, only MJ and Kobe made more than 700 jumpers in a season (250 more than Curry or Lebron's high), and at efficiency that would match Lebron's most efficient seasons (MJ actually exceeded Lebron's career best jumpshooting efficiency while making 250 more jumpers)

So MJ and Kobe are the best jumpshooters ever because no one is close to matching their combination of volume, variety, efficiency, and difficulty

Btw, history underrates Kobe or MJ for being goat at making teammates better and teammate improvement on their watch

[CelticBaller]

14th? So they knocked him down? :lol

[CodeBreaker]

Because he has the most missed shots in history

[bigkingsfan]

People are brutally honest, unlike players

[STATUTORY]

because advanced statistics havent caught up to his greatness

[Mr Feeny]

Most greats are volume scorers.

What are you saying?

Kobe is by far the most inefficient "all time great" of the modern era. And since his hallmark wasnt defense (as was the case with Russell), that really means that has no argument to rank as highly as his fans would want him to, on the all time list.

[Mr Feeny]

Tontoz is spot-on about Kobe btw.

Dude probably had worse shot selection than AI, who never saw a shot he didn't like.

Its hilarious to think despite that, he was STILL efficient. Most of his prime, 01-10, Kobe was basically as efficient as second 3-peat Jordan. But that's why there's a game within a game. Ergo...more than just stats.

Righhhtttt. 40%of for his finals career is very efficient. As is the fact that he never shot 47% for a single season once in 20 years:cheers:

[SpaceJam]

History may be harsh, but the league tried everything to get him there, as per my thread

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=471844

[scuzzy]

Because when you're endorsed by LA hype market, your fans views are skewed in comparison to the rest of the outside world.


Perfect example would be Lonzo last year, oh that hype was real despite him being arguably the worst player in the league. Lonzo nights! Another airtball! 40% from the stripe! This season? Not a peep :oldlol:


This forced marketing weathers in a whole slew of delusional fanboys and of course it's counterpart, haters.


Kobe could have been replaced by many players during that time period mirroring identical Lakers success. Most recognize that.

[Uncle Drew]

How is that harsh? He is unanimously seen as the 14th greatest player of all time. That is an amazing achievement.

[PickernRoller]

There is only one thing that really held him down all of his career.

Colorado. Upcoming face of the league/next Jordan gets accused of rape - a scandal tailor made to fill in every preconceived stereotype of black NBA players. Unhealthy to market to kids as a role model, toxic to adults and the white audience. Naturally the NBA is a business, thus distancing themselves from him was the play - as much as they could avoid his physical presence. His name became an instant toxic for the NBA brand. That's why the marketing machine, the elite of the analyst class laid off completely and allowed the hounds to bite at his flesh. The NBA is a business after all. They moved to their next project, "Lebron". Bran could be a BETA, colluder, fraud, choker and overrated to heaven but he can be marketed as a role model black citizen - as far as NBA players are concerned.

Self-inflicted though. Kobe only has himself to blame.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Righhhtttt. 40%of for his finals career is very efficient. As is the fact that he never shot 47% for a single season once in 20 years:cheers:

I'm glad you agree that Kobe was efficient during his prime.

[Overdrive]

Look! the guy currently ranks at the 14th spot of most all time rankings by sports writers. A 5 time NBA champion with 2 FMVP and all NBA first teams and all NBA defensive first teams and many more ranked only at 14th spot of ATGs?

I am no Kobe fan or whatsoever, but history is harsh on this guy.

The espn list all the others drew their conclusions from consisted of Nascar beat writers and the likes. How is Kobe below a guy like Oscar? As much as I dislike him he definately is a greater player than Oscar. Of course there are stories about him being otherworldly great and all, but any 60s legend has these. Realistically he never did anything noticable but average triple double stats. Now we're in an era of similar pace and guess what. There are others having triple double stats for whole seasons as well and this year some are on pace or close.

Not saying Oscar wasn't good, I absolutely respect those 60s guys and am sure they'd be great in any era.

Realistcally Kobe should be argued around 7-11.


Same thing will happen with Bron. Just watch. When Kobe was relevant and in his prime dropping 80 plus and winning chips there was a debate on if he was as good or better than mj. Once he started to decline and the retire that talk all but stopped and now he's fallen way down the rankings in most people's eyes.

Same thing is happening with LeBron. He's still relevant and still close to his prime so the LeBron vs mj debate is strong. When LeBron starts significantly declining and then retires that will die down a bit. Some new player will come along(probably Greek) and people will forget about LeBron and start comparing Greek to mj. Just wait and see

Won't happen. The AD move saved Lebron from that. Had he had 3 more 18-19 seasons with injuries and missing the playoffs then maybe, but if AD stays and they go far into the playoffs until Lebron's 37/38 and he puts up ok stats he'll stay in the top 5 easily.

[Mr Feeny]

I'm glad you agree that Kobe was efficient during his prime.

Yeah you're even dumber than I thought you were. If that's possible.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Yeah you're even dumber than I thought you were. If that's possible.

Not saying much coming from a dopey ****.

Tell us again why prime Kobe was "inefficient". Despite putting up a TS% above league average.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Well Kobe is the consensus 12th greatest player of all time, he

[DoctorP]

3 of those ships were with Shaq and another 2 with stacked rosters.

He's rated fairly.

[sammichoffate]

3 of those ships were with Shaq and another 2 with stacked rosters.

He's rated fairly.This is false and has been beaten to death already, lol.

[DoctorP]

This is false and has been beaten to death already, lol.

nice Laker avatar.

https://media1.giphy.com/media/3oz8xLd9DJq2l2VFtu/giphy.gif

Kobe is rated where he is rated. Deal with it.

[sammichoffate]

nice Laker avatar.

https://media1.giphy.com/media/3oz8xLd9DJq2l2VFtu/giphy.gif

Kobe is rated where he is rated. Deal with it.If you think he's inside the top 8 that wud be fine w/ me. Outside of it and you're just a troll tbh.

[DoctorP]

If you think he's inside the top 8 that wud be fine w/ me. Outside of it and you're just a troll tbh.

you are biased. DOesn't matter what I say or think so who cares. :lol

[SamuraiSWISH]

[QUOTE=RRR3]His fans are incredibly annoying and overrate him. More than any other group of player fans. They

[sportjames23]

[QUOTE=SamuraiSWISH]:oldlol: coming from a Three 6 Mafia Fam

LeBron Stans are literally the worst fan base in sports. They

[Smook A.]

Because he has the most missed shots in history
This argument is so ****ing stupid. Kobe played 20 seasons. 1346 games total in the regular season. It's very rare you see a player last that long in the NBA. You wanna know how many players played more seasons than Kobe? 6. 5 of those guys were big men (Kareem, KG, Dirk, Parish, Willis) and only 1, Vince Carter, is a wing player.

Vince has been a role player for 10 years now, so obviously his shot attempts/misses went down. On the other hand, you have big men. These guys will always have a higher shooting percentage than wing players, and as a result they have less misses.

Kobe is a career 45% shooter in the regular season and playoffs which really isn't bad at all. The reason why he has the most missed shots in history is because of how long he lasted in the league, and the fact that he was the #1 option for the 3/4 of his career.

[RRR3]

[QUOTE=SamuraiSWISH]:oldlol: coming from a Three 6 Mafia Fam

LeBron Stans are literally the worst fan base in sports. They

[Smook A.]

3 of those ships were with Shaq and another 2 with stacked rosters.

He's rated fairly.
Name a championship team in the past 2 decades that didn't have a stacked roster. Maybe the Raptors and Mavs but thats it.

You're never going to win a championship without some really good help, even if you have a top 5 player on your team. That's a fact.

[sammichoffate]

you are biased. DOesn't matter what I say or think so who cares. :lolEverything is biased, what's your point? You can't even address what i'm saying so that makes you even worse.

[bizil]

For starters, Kobe FOR DAMN SURE is in the top 10 GOAT! When u factor his solo accolades, team accolades, numbers, longevity being great, and peak-prime status he's in there.

BUT the other guys in the top 10 GOAT ALL redefined their positions. Kobe was seen as a lesser version of MJ by many people. So I think Kobe not redefining his position as much as Bird, Magic, MJ, and Bron on the perimeter hurts him in the eyes of many.

But skill for skill on both sides of the rock, Kobe is arguably the most skilled player ever. I'm talking scoring skillset, handles, passing, and defense as a package. Not saying he's better than MJ peak-prime wise. BUT Kobe had more tools to dominate a game MORE than any othe perimeter player arguably.

[DoctorP]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4lTmal6JFQ

For the Kobe fans :lol

[SamuraiSWISH]

Name a championship team in the past 2 decades that didn't have a stacked roster. Maybe the Raptors and Mavs but thats it.

You're never going to win a championship without some really good help, even if you have a top 5 player on your team. That's a fact.
Why has this myth been perpetuated that the 2011 Mavericks didn

[Smook A.]

Why has this myth been perpetuated that the 2011 Mavericks didn’t have a really good roster?
Great team from top to bottom but they weren't considered "stacked" by any means, especially when you compare their roster to other champs such as the Heat, Spurs, and Warriors

It makes their 2011 run even more sweet

[StrongLurk]

Kobe is a top 10 player of all time. Somewhere in the 6-10 range.

What's the big fuss?

[Smoke117]

I'd say being considered top 14 while never being the best player in the league at any point of your career is pretty damn good.