What year was LeBron James' peak?

[CodeBreaker]

What version was LeBron's peak?

Some notable ones:

2009 LeBron
https://cdn-s3.si.com/s3fs-public/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/1206/nba-lebron-james-best-playoff-performances/images/04-lebron-james-oph9-82551.jpg

2013 LeBron
https://static.vibe.com/files/photo_gallery_images/url_10-compressed.jpeg

2016 LeBron
https://www.chicagotribune.com/resizer/wEuJ9CfAFFqA_a4Xd_Ps7w56pPk=/800x621/top/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-tronc.s3.amazonaws.com/public/6V452PQGWNGDRECQKIP5UUEHTE.jpg

2018 LeBron
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-aj09g3Yzn-E/Wwvlct27jSI/AAAAAAAEwhE/RBkhq3n7AAsz8DNOJA6fs6pe6oOVi8TeACHMYBhgL/s600/lebron_james_nba_180527_cle-at-bos-01-game-7.jpg

[Bronbron23]

Miami. He played within a system, still had great stats and got 2 of his 3 chips. He was also a beast defensively.

[Micku]

2013 for me. Defensively he was still good. Great with the help, and solid one on one at spurts. And the stats was still there too.


2018 offensively in the playoffs. Well, that and 2014.

[Celtics 1825]

2013. 27-8-7 on 56% shooting AND 40% from 3, 1.7 steals, and a DPOY candidate

[SouBeachTalents]

2013 was his best regular season, but I'd hate to consider that his peak when he's had like 5 playoff runs more impressive than that year

[CodeBreaker]

2013 was his best regular season, but I'd hate to consider that his peak when he's had like 5 playoff runs more impressive than that year
His 2012 playoff run + 2013 regular season

[SpaceJam2]

Too many to choose from

2009 for raw pure record setting PER and WS/48 (Literal NBA records)

2012 for his ECF Game 6 and beating 3 MVPs

2013 for being the best two way player in league history

2015 for leading a G-leage squad to 2 wins in the Finals

2016 for..well...you know

2017 avg a trip dub in the Finals

2018 set all the playoff records

The guy is a freak

[CodeBreaker]

Too many to choose from

2009 for raw pure record setting PER and WS/48 (Literal NBA records)

2012 for his ECF Game 6 and beating 3 MVPs

2013 for being the best two way player in league history

2015 for leading a G-leage squad to 2 wins in the Finals

2016 for..well...you know

2017 avg a trip dub in the Finals

2018 set all the playoff records

The guy is a freak
If you can only choose one, what is it?

[FultzNationRISE]

So I think the takeaway from this thread is that Lebron’s entire career is one long, giant peak of unprecedented duration.



Nice.

[3ball]

2009 LeBron
https://cdn-s3.si.com/s3fs-public/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/1206/nba-lebron-james-best-playoff-performances/images/04-lebron-james-oph9-82551.jpg



I don't like 2009 because that's the year Stan Van Gundy laid the blueprint to beat Lebron, and it's been used successfully for a decade since

Stan said that letting him dribble a ton to get 30 points is better than doubling him and spurring ball-movement - so 2009 was the year that Lebron's dribble-heavy skillset was found to be exploitable

Stan exposed him in 09', so I don't think 09' was the peak of his game - he essentially didn't know how to win, as 09' began a 3-year run of losing as the favorite






2013 LeBron
https://static.vibe.com/files/photo_gallery_images/url_10-compressed.jpeg



This was the year he almost had a 2nd goat choke - he only averaged 23 on 43% before Ray's shot saved him and he ended up a net negative for the series - it was 2011 all over again until Ray's shot gave him 2nd life

So his peak couldn't be 2013






2016 LeBron
https://www.chicagotribune.com/resizer/wEuJ9CfAFFqA_a4Xd_Ps7w56pPk=/800x621/top/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-tronc.s3.amazonaws.com/public/6V452PQGWNGDRECQKIP5UUEHTE.jpg


This is his peak because it's the year where you can poke the least holes - there's stuff you can say but it's not as obvious as prior years

But this year was also his last gasp as a serious player that's trying to win, as opposed to an aging stat-padder that can no longer muster a defensive effort






2018 LeBron
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-aj09g3Yzn-E/Wwvlct27jSI/AAAAAAAEwhE/RBkhq3n7AAsz8DNOJA6fs6pe6oOVi8TeACHMYBhgL/s600/lebron_james_nba_180527_cle-at-bos-01-game-7.jpg


Lebron wasn't a serious basketball player at this point - he was just an aging stat-padder that could no longer muster a defensive effort

[CodeBreaker]

I don't like 2009 because that's the year Stan Van Gundy laid the blueprint to beat Lebron, and it's been used successfully for a decade since

Stan said that letting him dribble a ton to get 30 points is better than doubling him and spurring ball-movement - so 2009 was the year that Lebron's dribble-heavy skillset was found to be exploitable

Stan exposed him in 09', so I don't think 09' was the peak of his game - he essentially didn't know how to win, as 09' began a 3-year run of losing as the favorite




This was the year he almost had a 2nd goat choke - he only averaged 23 on 43% before Ray's shot saved him and he ended up a net negative for the series - it was 2011 all over again until Ray's shot gave him 2nd life

So his peak couldn't be 2013




This is his peak because it's the year where you can poke the least holes - there's stuff you can say but it's not as obvious as prior years

But this year was also his last gasp as a serious player that's trying to win, as opposed to an aging stat-padder that can no longer muster a defensive effort




Lebron wasn't a serious basketball player at this point - he was just an aging stat-padder that could no longer muster a defensive effort
What's your opinion about 2012 LeBron?

[Bawkish]

Too many to choose from

2009 for raw pure record setting PER and WS/48 (Literal NBA records)

2012 for his ECF Game 6 and beating 3 MVPs

2013 for being the best two way player in league history

2015 for leading a G-leage squad to 2 wins in the Finals

2016 for..well...you know

2017 avg a trip dub in the Finals

2018 set all the playoff records

The guy is a freak

where's 2011?

[3ball]

What's your opinion about 2012 LeBron?
Still had holes, but was playing a younger team with far more holes

[CodeBreaker]

Still had holes, but was playing a younger team with far more holes
Which was better 2012 or 2013?

[Gileraracer]

2013. 27-8-7 on 56% shooting AND 40% from 3, 1.7 steals, and a DPOY candidate

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Indian guy]

Defensively he peaked in 2013, but there are many versions that are better on offense (2009, 2014, 2017, 2018).

Offensive peak is 2018, but his defensive effort is very much lacking. But a lot of that is team circumstances (limited talent, horrible defensive roster and coaching). Plus laziness.

I would still pick 2018 if the playoffs start tomorrow. His game offensively is so complete by this point. He's still an athlete freak and much more tougher mentally than he was in 2013.

[HylianNightmare]

2009

[PickernRoller]

2012 is the best version of the fraud. You could actually like him that season. Almost.

Lol at IndianGuy mentioning 13'. The same year he almost choked another Final? Wait he did... and bailed by Ray :oldlol: :oldlol:

[Gileraracer]

2011 Imho

[Rico2016]

Defense: 2013
Offense: 2018
Leadership: 2016

[Wally450]

Physical peak was 09 for me.


All around greatness was 2013.

[ImKobe]

Defense: 2013
Offense: 2018
Leadership: 2016

What about his girth?

[Mr Feeny]

Defensively he peaked in 2013, but there are many versions that are better on offense (2009, 2014, 2017, 2018).

Offensive peak is 2018, but his defensive effort is very much lacking. But a lot of that is team circumstances (limited talent, horrible defensive roster and coaching). Plus laziness.

I would still pick 2018 if the playoffs start tomorrow. His game offensively is so complete by this point. He's still an athlete freak and much more tougher mentally than he was in 2013.

That's got to be a joke. In 2013 he was the best offensive player on the planet. By 2018, the game had changed and absolutely zero defense was being played. Harden was miles ahead of Lebron offensively. If you're discounting context and looking at basic box score stats, you might conclude that he was better than ever in 2018 but that's just silly.
Unless you're arguing that Harden, Steph, and Durant are all better offensive players than Lebron has ever been.

[Bankaii]

That's got to be a joke. In 2013 he was the best offensive player on the planet. By 2018, the game had changed and absolutely zero defense was being played. Harden was miles ahead of Lebron offensively. If you're discounting context and looking at basic box score stats, you might conclude that he was better than ever in 2018 but that's just silly.
Unless you're arguing that Harden, Steph, and Durant are all better offensive players than Lebron has ever been.
It’s adorable how you demean other posters as if what you say is absolute truth, when you’re wrong the majority of the time.

Do the playoffs not matter anymore? In the regular season, sure you can argue harden was better. Even tho Lebron shot just as well from 3 and had a 10% higher FG%.

But the playoffs?? Where Lebron was dropping 30-40 like it was nothing? Dude outscored Harden by 6 ppg while shooting 10% higher eFG%. Lebron was a better shooter, scorer, playmaker, and overall offensive player than Harden in the playoffs. Gtfoh with your bs.

[Indian guy]

That's got to be a joke. In 2013 he was the best offensive player on the planet. By 2018, the game had changed and absolutely zero defense was being played. Harden was miles ahead of Lebron offensively. If you're discounting context and looking at basic box score stats, you might conclude that he was better than ever in 2018 but that's just silly.
Unless you're arguing that Harden, Steph, and Durant are all better offensive players than Lebron has ever been.

My opinion has little to do with stats. I watch every LeBron game. He's a much more capable offensive player in 2018 than he was in 2013. Any LeBron fan who has followed him closely will tell you that.

[dbugz]

2009

before he ask for help and more help every effin year

[3ball]

My opinion has little to do with stats. I watch every LeBron game. He's a much more capable offensive player in 2018 than he was in 2013. Any LeBron fan who has followed him closely will tell you that.
Because he bullied guys WAY more from 2015 onwards compared to before

His increased bully-ball approach allowed him to achieve greater volume, without having to rely on his jumper for high volume like most players do. Bully-ball made him more of a pure scorer and more clutch; it infact made him these things.. With the added bully-ball approach, he could get 40 anytime he wanted, plus his normal 8-12 in the other categories - he couldn't do that from 04-14'..

That's why I said 16' was his peak - it combined this superior offense with a still-present defensive capability.
.

[tontoz]

Hard to say because he has played well for a long time.

In his younger days he seemed a bit tentative/deferential in big moments but became more assertive as he matured.

I have to give him some points for professionalism. He worked hard on his game and his body which allowed him to play at a high level for a long time. It would have been easy for him to coast on his talent.

[Smoke117]

2009.

[3ball]

2009.
Imagine a goat's peak being the year he lost as the heavy favorite, while failing to command a double-team that would elevate his team to an expected victory..

So at the goat's peak, he didn't command a double... :oldlol: ... sounds like the fake goat to me...

[Smoke117]

Imagine a goat's peak being the year he lost as the heavy favorite, while failing to command a double-team that would elevate his team to an expected victory..

So at the goat's peak, he didn't command a double... :oldlol: ... sounds like the fake goat to me...

Imagine having so much of your self worth built into a player you worship that you spend all your free time shitting on every other basketball player in existence...

[CodeBreaker]

:roll: :roll: :roll:
this guy obviously wasn't watching the NBA before 2015 :lol

[Mr Feeny]

My opinion has little to do with stats. I watch every LeBron game. He's a much more capable offensive player in 2018 than he was in 2013. Any LeBron fan who has followed him closely will tell you that.

But that's the eye test. It's the Kobe fans' arguments for Kobe being better than Lebron. You cant win arguments that way. Regarding your last point, I watched the Cavs those playoffs and I definitely dont tthink he was at his best. Because - as I said - he was only 4th best in the league, offensively. Therefore, if you're saying that that was Lebron at his best, you're arguing that the best offensive version of lebron is inferior to less than peak offensive versions of Curry, Harden, and durant.

[Mr Feeny]

[QUOTE=Bankaii]It

[Rico2016]

But that's the eye test. It's the Kobe fans' arguments for Kobe being better than Lebron. You cant win arguments that way. Regarding your last point, I watched the Cavs those playoffs and I definitely dont tthink he was at his best. Because - as I said - he was only 4th best in the league, offensively. Therefore, if you're saying that that was Lebron at his best, you're arguing that the best offensive version of lebron is inferior to less than peak offensive versions of Curry, Harden, and durant.

Wrong. LeBron has all the records for his 2018 run. Need I bump that thread? Okay then I guess I should.

[Rico2016]

% of a team

[Bankaii]

Who are you, again?
And why on earth are you comparing harden playing in the west with Lebron playing in what was then the worst conference in history, with the worst defense in history?
Is that supposed to be an insult? You think I care about being

[Doranku]

I agree with 2018 as well. I remember watching him in the 2018 playoffs and thinking he might be the best player I've ever seen. He didn't play much defense but he was just so dominant offensively. He had everything going for him that year: the jumper, the confidence, the closing ability.

It's unfortunate they ran into the KD Warriors in the finals. I think they would've beat Houston if CP3 didn't get injured and the Rockets took out the Warriors.

[Mr Feeny]

[QUOTE=Bankaii]Is that supposed to be an insult? You think I care about being

[SouBeachTalents]

I agree with 2018 as well. I remember watching him in the 2018 playoffs and thinking he might be the best player I've ever seen. He didn't play much defense but he was just so dominant offensively. He had everything going for him that year: the jumper, the confidence, the closing ability.

It's unfortunate they ran into the KD Warriors in the finals. I think they would've beat Houston if CP3 didn't get injured and the Rockets took out the Warriors.
Agreed bro. I'll always wonder what would've happened if they hadn't gotten hosed by the refs/JR'd in Game 1. Winning a game on their home court with LeBron playing like a god, it would've at the minimum made for an interesting series

[FireDavidKahn]

Not his peak but the game where he scored 25 straight on Detroit to force OT and get the W was his best game ever IMO.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiCa4sKM7-w

It's just insane the shit he did.

[Micku]

I agree with 2018 as well. I remember watching him in the 2018 playoffs and thinking he might be the best player I've ever seen. He didn't play much defense but he was just so dominant offensively. He had everything going for him that year: the jumper, the confidence, the closing ability.

It's unfortunate they ran into the KD Warriors in the finals. I think they would've beat Houston if CP3 didn't get injured and the Rockets took out the Warriors.

I don't think they would beat the Rockets or Warriors in 18. Obviously not the GSW. But it would be interesting to see them face against Rockets or any other team in the finals besides the Warriors from 15-18. There was one point in 17 where I thought three teams in the West could beat the Cavs. Even in 16, I still feel that was bit of luck. But hey, it counts lol. Same way with the Celts beat the Lakers in 1984. The Lakers seemed like the better team, but the Celts manage to win.

But LeBron in 18 just carried that team to the finals. I guess part of the reason why is cuz the East kind'a sucked, but part of the reason why LBJ is his greatness. That team has no business making it to the finals similar to the 07 team.

But I feel like 13 was more of a two way player. I'm not too sure if the league had rules where it was easier to defend perimeter players back then or not. I haven't looked into it. And yeah, he almost had a 2011 thing back then too, but he keep through. His regular season was great.

[Andrei89]

I agree with 2018 as well. I remember watching him in the 2018 playoffs and thinking he might be the best player I've ever seen. He didn't play much defense but he was just so dominant offensively. He had everything going for him that year: the jumper, the confidence, the closing ability.

It's unfortunate they ran into the KD Warriors in the finals. I think they would've beat Houston if CP3 didn't get injured and the Rockets took out the Warriors.


The Rockets would have smashed the 2018 Cavs just like GSW did. It was arguably their best season in the Harden era and the Cavs were just Lebron tbh.

The dude scored 52 points? in G1 of the finals and still lost. It was over

[pauk]

2009 tbh, just to many scrubs to carry all the way to the chip, like 1989 Jordan which is to me perhaps best Jordan ever with the following 2 years, just to many scrubs around.

Peak in a player is about where peak athleticism meets peak skills

[jayfan]

5/31/2007, 4th quarter.




.

[StrongLurk]

[QUOTE=Rico2016]% of a team

[SpaceJam2]

:biggums:


In

[PJR]

2012 is and will always be the correct answer. Especially if we're talking about BOTH ends of the court.

[FireDavidKahn]

5/31/2007, 4th quarter.




.
Good minds think a like.:bowdown:

[RRR3]

[QUOTE=Rico2016]% of a team

[SpaceJam2]

That is a typo.

Nance, Korver, Hill and Thompson had positive VORPs.

They probably had games where they were negative or close to 0.

2018 VORP totals

Nance = 0.5
Hill = 0.1
Thompson = 0.1
Love = -0.1

KING JAMES = 3.7

Crazy.

[3ball]

How this guy be as good as Kobe or MJ?... :biggums:


ESPN in 2015 (so thru 3/4 of Bron's career):



"But, in clutch time, James faltered. (Clutch time is defined as the last five minutes of the fourth quarter and overtime with the score within five points.)

James missed 14 of his 17 field goals in clutch time during the 2015 Finals, including shots to win in regulation of Game 1 and Game 2. The Cavaliers were outscored in the fourth quarter and overtime in every game but Game 6, when the Warriors had a comfortable lead entering the quarter.

For his career in the Finals, James has shot just under 30 percent in clutch time, which does not compare favorably to the shooting percentages of Kobe Bryant and Dwyane Wade."

https://www.espn.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/106689/making-the-historical-comparison-between-lebron-james-other-all-time-greats


:roll:

fakegoat... it's sad because he faltered badly in the clutch (usually with horrific 4th quarter jumpshooting stats) in the 07' Finals, 08' ECSF, 09' ECF, 10' ECSF, 11' Finals, 13' Finals, 15' Finals, 16' Finals) - his jumpshooting was either bad overall or bad in the 4th on all these series.

[Vino24]

LeBron had 4 distinct peaks

[RRR3]

Ban the spammer. End the madness.

[Shooter]

Defense: 2013
Offense: 2018
Leadership: 2016


Playmaking: 2020 :lebronamazed

---

Defense: 2013
Offense: 2018
Leadership: 2016
Playmaking: 2020

[RoundMoundOfReb]

This is his peak because it's the year where you can poke the least holes - there's stuff you can say but it's not as obvious as prior years

But this year was also his last gasp as a serious player that's trying to win, as opposed to an aging stat-padder that can no longer muster a defensive effort




Lebron wasn't a serious basketball player at this point - he was just an aging stat-padder that could no longer muster a defensive effort

:roll::roll:

[Wally450]

Overall 2013 for me. Offensively efficient, great defensively, and gifted athletically.

[HylianNightmare]

2009

[light]

You're watching it, hombre.