It's a fact that Lebron can't carry lottery teams to the playoffs because

[3ball]

he's already failed to do it 3 times - he's 0-3 at making the playoffs with teams that were lottery the prior year (2004, 2005, 2019)

Lebron's inability to carry lottery teams to the playoffs meant that he never had a low seed in the playoffs, and infact only made the playoffs with high seeds/good teams relative to his conference comp..

This is just another example of his carry-job ability being vastly overrated.. He had that one great regular season in 2009 during a down year and down conference, so everyone mistakenly thinks he can carry lottery teams... :facepalm:

But the reality is that he never carried a lottery team to the playoffs; he never carried a low seed deep in the playoffs (never even had a low seed); and never carried a team to a championship without his sidekick scoring nearly as much as him... so an overrated carry-job legacy.. :confusedshrug:

[RRR3]

he's already failed to do it 3 times - he's 0-3 at making the playoffs with teams that were lottery the prior year (2004, 2005, 2019)

Lebron's inability to carry lottery teams to the playoffs meant that he never had a low seed in the playoffs, and infact only made the playoffs with high seeds/good teams relative to his conference comp..

This is just another example of his carry-job ability being vastly overrated.. He had that one great regular season in 2009 during a down year and down conference, so everyone mistakenly thinks he can carry lottery teams... :facepalm:

But the reality is that he never carried a lottery team to the playoffs; he never carried a low seed deep in the playoffs (never even had a low seed); and never carried a team to a championship without his sidekick scoring nearly as much as him... so an overrated carry-job legacy.. :confusedshrug:
The east was better than the west that year.

[AussieSteve]

It's a fact that lebron has consistently carried lottery teams to the finals.

[3ball]

The east was better than the west that year.
The West had stronger teams at the top, whereas the East was let another weak cast make the Finals in 2009..

From 2001-2009, five weak casts made the Finals from the East (2009, 2007, 2003, 2002, 2001), that everyone knew would get destroyed in the Finals

But despite not needing a strong cast to make the Finals, Lebron formed a super-team from 11-18' to ensure Finals runs - this was after losing to Dwight's weak cast in 2009..

There's no cover here - Lebron played in a weak conference, so his casts weren't weak relative to their comp - other guys were making the Finals with weak casts including Lebron himself in 2007, so he has no excuse for not making it in 2009 or 2010 as the heavy favorite.

[3ball]

It's a fact that lebron has consistently carried lottery teams to the finals.


He virtually never has - his conference was weak, so his casts were viable, which is why he always got high seeds despite not producing as much as previous greats

For example, 28/8/7 yielded 66 wins in 2009, whereas Jordan's 33/8/8 yielded 47 wins in 1989 - so Lebron won 19 more games despite weaker stats, which proves that his cast made up the 19-win gap - ultimately, his casts were quite viable relative to the weak conference, as five weak casts made the Finals from the East from 2001-2009 (2009, 2007, 2003, 2002, 2001)..

But despite not needing a strong cast to make the Finals, Lebron formed a super-team from 11-18' to ensure Finals runs - this was after losing to Dwight's weak cast in 2009 and ceding that easy run to Dwight (who never did anything else before or since)..





It's a fact that lebron has consistently carried lottery teams to the finals.


Keep in mind that the 06' Cavs added a future COY and the reigning 1st team defender and 22/5/5 steals champ... So they weren't the same lottery team from 2004 and 2005 - Lebron needed a 1st team defender sidekick and a future COY to make the playoffs.
.

[SpaceJam]

2006 bro

Didn’t know we punishing players for maintaining playoff success as well, strange

[Manny98]

Jordan failed to get the Wizards to the playoffs in 02 & 03

LeBron took WOAT casts to the finals twice whilst MJ couldn't make it past the 1st round without another HOF

[3ball]

2006 bro

Didn’t know we punishing players for maintaining playoff success as well, strange
the 06' Cavs added a future COY and a 22/5/5 steals champ/1st-team defender

So they weren't the same lottery team from 2004 and 2005 - Lebron needed a 20-point, 1st-team defender sidekick, and the future COY to make the playoffs... that's pathetic.. :oldlol:
.

[SpaceJam]

Jordan failed to get the Wizards to the playoffs in 02 & 03

LeBron took WOAT casts to the finals twice whilst MJ couldn't make it past the 1st round without another HOF

Bron

[SpaceJam]

the 06' Cavs added a future COY and the reigning 1st team defender and 22/5/5 steals champ...

So they weren't the same lottery team from 2004 and 2005 - Lebron needed a 22/5/5 first-team defender sidekick, and the future COY to make the playoffs... that's pathetic.. :oldlol:
.

he's already failed to do it 3 times - he's 0-3 at making the playoffs with teams that were lottery the prior year

Sorry bro just fitting your criteria, looks like Bron has in fact done it.

Chalk up another one for the king

[3ball]

he's already failed to do it 3 times - he's 0-3 at making the playoffs with teams that were lottery the prior year

Sorry bro just fitting your criteria, looks like Bron has in fact done it.

Chalk up another one for the king
If you're happy with Lebron needing 3 years to get a lottery team to the playoffs and MJ doing it in Year 1, that's fine with me... :oldlol:

OP still stands

And again, Lebron needed a 20-point, 1st-team defender sidekick, and the future COY to make the playoffs... that's pathetic.. MJ needed nothing

[SpaceJam]

If you're happy with Lebron needing 3 years to get a lottery team to the playoffs and MJ doing it in Year 1, that's fine with me... :oldlol:

OP still stands

And again, Lebron needed a Lebron needed a 20-point, 1st-team defender sidekick, and the future COY to make the playoffs... that's pathetic.. MJ needed nothing

If you

[Smoke117]

Uh...pretty much every one of those early Cavs teams he was on were 30 win max teams without him. Just shut the fukk up. Who cares anyway? Can't you ever just shut the hell up about Jordan or LeBron? Nobody cares anymore. You're just a boring sad stupid little old man. SHUT UP.

[Lebron6]

Shut your ass up. You're were on ish for hours. :roll: LeBron has a goat case. :roll: Dumbass. 1ball. Legoat. :bowdown:

[bigkingsfan]

Must be hard to get in the playoffs with 30 wins. That would rank them 14th in the West, 12th East last year.

[3ball]

[QUOTE=SpaceJam]

If you

[Lebron6]

OP a clown :facepalm noone cares. Dumbass.

[FKAri]

That was a statistical anomaly - means nothing - MJ still had the 8th best team whereas Lebron wasn't able to.

Relative to his comp, Lebron's casts were far better - he had a 2-time all-star center, a 1st team perimeter defender and 20-point scorer, along with the future COY

that's a lot more than MJ had in the 80's, and we haven't even included guys like all-star Mo Williams, 2-time all-star Jamison, or all-defender Varejao that would be added later.
Want to know another statistical anomaly? You having consensual sex.

[3ball]

Uh...pretty much every one of those early Cavs teams he was on were 30 win max teams without him. Just shut the fukk up. Who cares anyway? Can't you ever just shut the hell up about Jordan or LeBron? Nobody cares anymore. You're just a boring sad stupid little old man. SHUT UP.


his conference was weak, so his casts were viable, which is why he always got high seeds despite not producing as much as previous greats

For example, 28/8/7 yielded 66 wins in 2009, whereas Jordan's 33/8/8 yielded 47 wins in 1989 - so Lebron won 19 more games despite weaker stats, which proves that his cast made up the 19-win gap... ultimately, his casts were quite viable relative to the weak conference, as five weak casts made the Finals from the East from 2001-2009 (2009, 2007, 2003, 2002, 2001)..

But despite not needing a strong cast to make the Finals, Lebron formed a super-team from 11-18' to ensure Finals runs - this was after losing to Dwight's weak cast in 2009 and ceding that easy run to Dwight (who never did anything else before or since)..



Uh...pretty much every one of those early Cavs teams he was on were 30 win max teams without him. Just shut the fukk up. Who cares anyway? Can't you ever just shut the hell up about Jordan or LeBron? Nobody cares anymore. You're just a boring sad stupid little old man. SHUT UP.
the 04/05 Cavs were too crappy to make the playoffs even with Lebron's 07' production level:


05' Lebron:. 27/7/7.. 55.4 ts.. 25.7 PER.. 0.203 ws/48.. 8.3 bpm.. 8.8 vorp.. 9 seed, lottery
07' Lebron:. 27/7/6.. 55.2 ts.. 24.5 PER.. 0.206 ws/48.. 7.4 bpm.. 7.6 vorp.. 2 seed, Finals


So it's false that lebron can carry any team to the playoffs..

the 05' Cavs needed personnel additions (adding a 22/5/5 first-team defender sidekick) and a coaching change (adding the future COY) to make the 06/07 playoffs with lebron's 27/7/7 stats .. so there's no reason to give young lebron a pass for his 9 seeds as if he isn't capable of those teams, while knocking young MJ for his 8 seeds.






Uh...pretty much every one of those early Cavs teams he was on were 30 win max teams without him. Just shut the fukk up. Who cares anyway? Can't you ever just shut the hell up about Jordan or LeBron? Nobody cares anymore. You're just a boring sad stupid little old man. SHUT UP.



Stats and cast for MJ/Lebron's first 3 playoff seasons


REGULAR SEASON

MJ. 85-87' (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1985-1987-sum:per_game):. 31.7 ppg.. 2.0 oreb.. 3.6 dreb.. 5.0 apg.. 2.6 spg.. 1.2 bpg.. 57.1 ts.. 27.8 PER
LBJ 06-08' (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html#2006-2008-sum:per_game):. 27.2 ppg.. 1.2 oreb.. 5.9 dreb.. 7.1 apg.. 1.4 spg.. 1.0 bpg.. 56.3 ts.. 27.2 PER..


^^^ jordan got 8 seeds, while lebron produced less but got 2 and 4 seeds



PLAYOFFS

MJ. 85-87' (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1985-1987-sum:playoffs_per_game):. 35.5 ppg.. 1.9 oreb.. 4.4 dreb.. 6.9 apg.. 2.4 spg.. 1.5 bpg.. 56.0 ts.. 27.4 PER
LBJ 06-08' (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html#2006-2008-sum:playoffs_per_game):. 27.5 ppg.. 1.4 oreb.. 6.6 dreb.. 7.3 apg.. 1.6 spg.. 0.8 bpg.. 53.1 ts.. 23.8 PER..


^^^ jordan lost in 1st Round, while lebron produced less but made Finals


Lebron's cast made up the production gap.. He needed 2005 all-star Zydrunas and 22/5/5 Hughes to make the 06' playoffs, just like MJ needed rookie Pippen to make the 2nd round.. except rookie pippen wasn't capable of 2-time all-star (Zydrunas), or 22/5/5 and 1st team all-D (05' Hughes)

Unfortunately, the way the media analyzes lebron/MJ, they imply that lebron was getting high seeds and the Finals with the same casts that MJ got 8 seeds with... But that's not true, and the stats above show that mj was producing far more than Lebron, but his weaker casts prevented higher seeds/records like Lebron had.
.

[AirBonner]

LeBron simply isn

[AussieSteve]

You don't have to be a Stan to acknowledge that the one thing LeBron does better than anyone in history... yes even better than Jordan... is make bad teams contenders.

LeBron's GOAT case is a nutshell is 'give him any cast and he'll make them good'

Where MJ has a decisive edge over LeBron is at the other end of the scale. Give MJ a good cast and he'll take them all the way. Give LeBron a good cast and I don't think he raises them as much as MJ did.

[Smoke117]

I love how you posted all that nonsense like I was going to read it. I haven't read any of your actual post in like 3 years. All you do is reiterate the same shit over and over. Once you've read one of your post you've read them all. Michael Jordan is a God, everyone of his teammates were garbage, and LeBron is shit. Rinse, repeat.

[Celtics 1825]

All of Lebron's teams pre-Heat were lottery teams without him, as well as the 2018 Cavs

[3ball]

one thing LeBron does better than anyone in history... yes even better than Jordan... is make bad teams contenders.


If Lebron makes bad teams more competitive than MJ makes them, then why did Lebron miss the 05' playoffs with a the East all-star center?... Why did those Cavs need to add the future COY and a 1st team defender/20-point scorer to finally make the playoffs in 2006?.. Later on they added all-star Mo Williams and 2-time all-star Jamison, along with all-defender Varejao..

So that's 5 guys with accolades and the COY, while MJ's 80's casts had zero accolades, yet he made the playoffs every year including the ECF in 1989 (taking the champs 6 games) - MJ clearly had worse teams, but was more competitive with them

Indeed - Lebron's 2 seed got swept by the champs in 2007, while MJ's 6 seed took the champs 6 games in 1989.. Yet you're saying Lebron makes weak teams more competitive than MJ???... That's false and flies in the face of the facts.

MJ clearly did more with less his entire career.. So while Lebron gets props for his 2007 upset of the Pistons (#7 SRS beating the #6 SRS), that upset paled in comparison to MJ's, who was carrying a much weaker cast when his #10 SRS team beat the #1 SRS team in 1989.

Lebron's cast was not only better than Jordan's 80's casts, but it was pretty good relative to the East comp in the 2000's, where 5 weak casts made the Finals in that decade (09', 07', 03', 02' and 01').. So Lebron deserves blame for ceding the easy run to Dwight's weak cast in 09', and also forming super-teams in a conference that didn't require good casts to make the Finals.





LeBron's GOAT case is a nutshell is 'give him any cast and he'll make them good'


Nonsense - he already had a good cast relative to the conference, as shown above, and a better cast than MJ's 80's teams..

If we took away Lebron's 2-time all-star center, his 20-point all-defender sidekick, and his COY, he wouldn't make the playoffs or do well with an accolade-less cast like MJ had.. Heck, Lebron missed the playoffs in 05' with an all-star center before they added a 20-point all-defender and the COY to get him into the playoffs.

Otoh, MJ took an accolade-less cast to the playoffs every year - this includes taking a 47-win, 6 seed to the ECF and 6 games with the champs - that's better than Lebron getting swept by the champs with a 50-win, 2 seed and a cast full of accolades... So MJ did more with less - it's fact.





You don't have to be a Stan to acknowledge that the one thing LeBron does better than anyone in history... yes even better than Jordan... is make bad teams contenders.


Ultimately, we know that Lebron wasn't carrying those Cavs teams more than MJ because the stats say so:

Lebron's 28/8/7 yielded 66 wins in 2009, while MJ's 33/8/8 yielded 47 wins in 1989 - this 19-win advantage despite lesser stats from Lebron proves that his cast was making up the gap.. This makes sense, since Lebron had many decorated teammates while MJ had none, as previously mentioned.





Where MJ has a decisive edge over LeBron is at the other end of the scale. Give MJ a good cast and he'll take them all the way. Give LeBron a good cast and I don't think he raises them as much as MJ did.


Of course not - Lebron's style turns teammates into spot-up shooters, which doesn't develop teammates or teams, and therefore needs to team-hop for ready-made stars/teams.. he simply avoided the same career-losing fate of his fellow ball-dominators by team-hopping for the extra talent the style needs to win..
.

[tontoz]

I bet you guys didn't know OP has his own fragrance.











https://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g195/tontoz/images_zpsnqqsulgp.jpeg (http://s56.photobucket.com/user/tontoz/media/images_zpsnqqsulgp.jpeg.html)

[3ball]

The response to AussieSteve corrects the common misperceptions and covers all the bases

[Manny98]

The response to AussieSteve corrects the common misperceptions and covers all the bases
How did the GOAT miss the playoffs with prime Jerry Stackhouse and Larry Hughes

[3ball]

How did the GOAT miss the playoffs with prime Jerry Stackhouse and Larry Hughes
He no longer had elite athleticism, and therefore lacked the physical capacity to will his team to the playoffs

But MJ never missed the playoffs when he was an elite athlete (85-98'), whereas Lebron missed it 3 times as an elite athlete (04', 05', 19')

Lebron missed the damn playoffs with the East all-star center, yet Lebron fans thinks he makes bad teams good... lol

[ShawkFactory]

Yea 2009 was the strongest year the east had the entire decade

[3ball]

Yea 2009 was the strongest year the east had the entire decade
Not true, but regardless, that would show how weak the conference was if true

Lebron's "weak" cast ceded an easy Finals run to Dwight's weak cast - and as the heavy favorite no less - so lebron should get knocked a lot more for losing that series

Especially since he didn't command a double team, which prevented him from elevating teammates

[Smoke117]

3ball, you are basically the biggest fan of everything you write. Who else could not go as mad as you are reading the absolute obsessive drivel?

[3ball]

3ball, you are basically the biggest fan of everything you right. Who else could not go as mad as you are reading the absolute obsessive drivel?
Obsessive drivel, but pretty accurate

His "weak" cast ceded an easy Finals run to Dwight's weak cast in 2009, so he should get knocked more for losing that series and failing to elevate teammates

[Jameerthefear]

https://mobile.twitter.com/midsmoker27/status/1194006314789298176?s=09

Found this a week ago, this literally proves LeBron > Jordan

[ShawkFactory]

Not true, but regardless, that would show how weak the conference was if true

Lebron's "weak" cast ceded an easy Finals run to Dwight's weak cast - and as the heavy favorite no less - so lebron should get knocked a lot more for losing that series

Especially since he didn't command a double team, which prevented him from elevating teammates
The east had 3 of the best 4 teams in basketball, including the defending champs...who very easily could have won again had their best player not missed the playoffs.

They won the head-2-head against the west straight up (only year they were even close that decade).

The Cavs went 26-4 against the west. Celtics 23-7 (1-3 without KG). Etc.

2009 was the strongest year the east has had since the 90s

[Lebron23]

Is OP autistic, or retarded? I really felt bad for your family.

[SpaceJam2]

Jordan failed to get the Wizards to the playoffs in 02 & 03

LeBron took WOAT casts to the finals twice whilst MJ couldn't make it past the 1st round without another HOF

[ShawkFactory]

Jordan failed to get the Wizards to the playoffs in 02 & 03

LeBron took WOAT casts to the finals twice whilst MJ couldn't make it past the 1st round without another HOF
Jordan also improved the Bulls by 11 wins his first year. And then by 13 his second full year.

Lebron improved his team 18 and 25 respectively.

While being 3 years younger and not having the luxury of Dean Smith coaching him up.

[Rico2016]

Jordan also improved the Bulls by 11 wins his first year. And then by 13 his second full year.

Lebron improved his team 18 and 25 respectively.

While being 3 years younger and not having the luxury of Dean Smith coaching him up.


I've read enough. Plus if we mention 1-9 it just gets worse for the second greatest to ever play. My apologies MJ stans.

[Lebron23]

Jordan in today's NBA is Demar Derozan. How many times LeBron beat his team in the playoffs?

[IGOTGAME]

Obsessive drivel, but pretty accurate

His "weak" cast ceded an easy Finals run to Dwight's weak cast in 2009, so he should get knocked more for losing that series and failing to elevate teammates

do you get paid to write this bs? sound a bit like a psycho

[3ball]

The east had 3 of the best 4 teams in basketball, including the defending champs...who very easily could have won again had their best player not missed the playoffs.

They won the head-2-head against the west straight up (only year they were even close that decade).

The Cavs went 26-4 against the west. Celtics 23-7 (1-3 without KG). Etc.

2009 was the strongest year the east has had since the 90s


It's funny because when MJ retired, the East was up for grabs - this is what happened when Garnett went down in 09'.

So you're making excuses for Lebron losing in this weakened environment and perfect scenario, despite being the original conference champs in 2007, and the odd-on favorite to re-assume the throne in 2009 with Garnett down.

So team records between the conferences are irrelevant, particularly because with Garnett out, the entire league was down and lacked juggernauts in either conference.. Dwight's cast certainly wasn't considered strong or expected to win, especially with his all-star PG out... Lebron's team was infact considered that team that everyone feared in the East, and that won the most games in the league..

So it's not that Lebron had a great cast in 2009, it's that neither did anyone else in the conference (or league) with Garnett out, and that means Lebron should've at least made the Finals as he was expected to..

But we already know that his teammates weren't elevated sufficiently in those 09' ECF, in part because the opposing coach preferred to allow Lebron's long-dribble style, rather than get the ball out of his hands via double-team and spur ball movement.. His inconsistent jumpshooting further lessened the need to get the ball out of his hands - he rarely got hot, so you could meet him at the rim with multiple bodies if he penetrated, rather than overtly double-team him on the perimeter.

Essentially, it was all gravy in 2007 when no one knew his game that well... He did well that year and achieved or exceeded expectations.. But by 2009, cracks had started to show - it started when his jumpshot failed him in the 2008 playoffs against Boston (26 on 35%) - no one actually cared because the Cavs' played well that series.. But it was becoming clear that his lack of consistent jumpshooting and long-dribble style lessened the need to get the ball out of his hands/roll the dice against ball movement.. Stan exposed this in 09' by playing him straight up and shutting down his teammates.

Btw, I'm going to be honest, I wouldn't expect him to beat a seasoned Kobe in those 09' Finals given his mental breakdowns in 10' and 11' on lesser stages with more help.. He simply didn't know how to win for many years and his losses as the favorite from 2009-2011 demonstrated that more clearly than anything ever could

The exposure began with stan solving lebron in 09' and giving Dwight his career-defining moment.. Then he mentally broke down and quit in the 2010 ECSF, becoming the 1st player ever to lose in back-to-back years with a 60-win 1 seed.. :facepalm .. Then he lost with a super-team in 2011, basically proving that it's his game (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13867350&postcount=101), not his cast... :confusedshrug:..
.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

A lot of East was tough talk.

Meanwhile LeBron and "scrubs" managed to win 66 games. And make the conference finals :oldlol:

[RRR3]

A lot of East was tough talk.

Meanwhile LeBron and "scrubs" managed to win 66 games. And make the conference finals :oldlol:
LeBron has reduced you to siding with 3ball :(

You’re better than this.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

[QUOTE=RRR3]LeBron has reduced you to siding with 3ball :(

You

[RRR3]

Oh ya? :lol

I wouldn't know. Don't really read his posts.

Question stands tho. How tough was the conference...if LeBron and "scrubs" were 2 games away from the finals?
Tougher than the west that year, as has already been detailed in this thread :confusedshrug:

Not going to rehash stuff that’s already been posted.

[3ball]

The east had 3 of the best 4 teams in basketball, including the defending champs...who very easily could have won again had their best player not missed the playoffs.

They won the head-2-head against the west straight up (only year they were even close that decade).

The Cavs went 26-4 against the west. Celtics 23-7 (1-3 without KG). Etc.

2009 was the strongest year the east has had since the 90s


Garnett got hurt in 09' - the perfect scenario emerged of a conference up for grabs, with the pre-Garnett conference champ back on top - but they blew it

that's what happened
'
there couldn't be a better chance for Lebron to make a Finals than Garnett going down, allowing the team play for the conference against underdog Dwight Howard and his And1 injury-replacement PG.

But we already know that his teammates weren't elevated sufficiently in those 09' ECF, in part because the opposing coach preferred (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13867461&postcount=3) to allow Lebron's long-dribble style, rather than get the ball out of his hands via double-team and spur ball movement.. His inconsistent jumpshooting further lessened the need to get the ball out of his hands - he rarely got hot, so you could meet him at the rim with multiple bodies if he penetrated, rather than overtly double-team him on the perimeter.

Essentially, it was all gravy in 2007 when no one knew his game that well... He did well that year and achieved or exceeded expectations.. But by 2009, cracks had started to show - it started when his jumpshot failed him in the 2008 playoffs against Boston (26 on 35%) - no one actually cared because the Cavs' played well that series.. But it was becoming clear that his lack of consistent jumpshooting and long-dribble style lessened the need to get the ball out of his hands/roll the dice against ball movement.. Stan exposed this in 09' by playing him straight up and shutting down his teammates.

Btw, I'm going to be honest, I wouldn't expect him to beat a seasoned Kobe in those 09' Finals given his mental breakdowns in 10' and 11' on lesser stages with more help.. Lebron simply didn't know how to win for many years and his losses as the favorite from 2009-2011 demonstrated that more clearly than anything ever could

The exposure began with stan solving lebron in 09' and giving Dwight his career-defining moment.. Then he mentally broke down and quit in the 2010 ECSF, becoming the 1st player ever to lose in back-to-back years with a 60-win 1 seed.. :facepalm .. Then he lost with a super-team in 2011, basically proving that it's his game (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13867350&postcount=101), not his cast that causes 3/9... :confusedshrug:..
.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

ok
Tougher than the west that year, as has already been detailed in this thread :confusedshrug:

Not going to rehash stuff that’s already been posted.

You had time to chime in here. But it's cool. I know anyone questioning LeBron cuts deep.

Anyone else? If the playoffs are the barometer, like they always were, how the hell did one player deebo the entire conference? :oldlol:

[3ball]

Tougher than the west that year, as has already been detailed in this thread

Not going to rehash stuff that’s already been posted.:


Garnett got hurt in 09' - the perfect scenario emerged of a conference up for grabs, with the pre-Garnett conference champ back on top - but they blew it

that's what happened
'
there couldn't be a better chance for Lebron to make a Finals than Garnett going down, allowing the team play for the conference against underdog Dwight Howard and his And1 injury-replacement PG.

But we already know that his teammates weren't elevated sufficiently in those 09' ECF, in part because the opposing coach preferred to allow Lebron's long-dribble style, rather than get the ball out of his hands via double-team and spur ball movement.. His inconsistent jumpshooting further lessened the need to get the ball out of his hands - he rarely got hot, so you could meet him at the rim with multiple bodies if he penetrated, rather than overtly double-team him on the perimeter.

[Hey Yo]

That was a statistical anomaly - means nothing - MJ still had the 8th best team whereas Lebron wasn't able to.

Relative to his comp, Lebron's casts were far better - he had a 2-time all-star center, a 1st team perimeter defender and 20-point scorer, along with the future COY

that's a lot more than MJ had in the 80's, and we haven't even included guys like all-star Mo Williams, 2-time all-star Jamison, or all-defender Varejao that would be added later.
Hughes only made 1st team once. According to you, being recognized only once means that you're truly not an All-NBA player.

Mo Williams was a 1x All-Star. Again, You said yourself that being a 1x All-Star doesn't count as being an actual All-Star remember?

Jamison played half of a season with LeBron and wasn't an All-Star that year.

Your alleged facts are shit.

[3ball]

Hughes only made 1st team once. According to you, being recognized only once means that you're truly not an All-NBA player.

Mo Williams was a 1x All-Star. Again, You said yourself that being a 1x All-Star doesn't count as being an actual All-Star remember?

Jamison played half of a season with LeBron and wasn't an All-Star that year.

Your alleged facts are shit.

Accolades on Jordan's 85-89' Bulls:



none



Accolades on Lebron's 2007 Cavs:



Zydrunas - 2-time all-star
Hughes - 1st team defender
Future COY Brown



Accolades on Lebron's 2009/10 Cavs:



Mo Williams - 1-time all-star
A Jamison - 2-time all-star
Zydrunas - 2-time all-star

Varejao - all-defender
COY Mike Brown
the 2009 all-star MVP (shaq) was playing 4th option for the Cavs in 2010



^^^ Lebron's better cast explains why he won more games with less personal stats than MJ:

Lebron's 28/8/7 stats yielded 66 wins, while Jordan's 33/8/8 yielded 47 wins... or 35/6/6 with dpoy yielded 50 wins... or 37/5/5 got 40 wins... But Lebron's better cast allowed him to win more games despite his lesser stats.

Btw, my facts aren't shit - Antawn Jamison was a 2-time all-star that was averaging 22/9 before Lebron scooped him up and reduced him to 16/8

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[Hey Yo]

Hughes only made 1st team once. According to you, being recognized only once means that you're truly not an All-NBA player.

Mo Williams was a 1x All-Star. Again, You said yourself that being a 1x All-Star doesn't count as being an actual All-Star remember?

Jamison played half of a season with LeBron and wasn't an All-Star that year.

Your alleged facts are shit.


OWNED!!

[Turbo Slayer]

Hughes only made 1st team once. According to you, being recognized only once means that you're truly not an All-NBA player.

Mo Williams was a 1x All-Star. Again, You said yourself that being a 1x All-Star doesn't count as being an actual All-Star remember?

Jamison played half of a season with LeBron and wasn't an All-Star that year.

Your alleged facts are shit.


OWNED!!
https://media.giphy.com/media/26xBGekbXJHY8KpUY/giphy.gif
3ball got owned smh CALL FOR A BAN on 3ball smh

[ShawkFactory]

Garnett got hurt in 09' - the perfect scenario emerged of a conference up for grabs, with the pre-Garnett conference champ back on top - but they blew it

that's what happened
'
there couldn't be a better chance for Lebron to make a Finals than Garnett going down, allowing the team play for the conference against underdog Dwight Howard and his And1 injury-replacement PG.

But we already know that his teammates weren't elevated sufficiently in those 09' ECF, in part because the opposing coach preferred (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13867461&postcount=3) to allow Lebron's long-dribble style, rather than get the ball out of his hands via double-team and spur ball movement.. His inconsistent jumpshooting further lessened the need to get the ball out of his hands - he rarely got hot, so you could meet him at the rim with multiple bodies if he penetrated, rather than overtly double-team him on the perimeter.

Essentially, it was all gravy in 2007 when no one knew his game that well... He did well that year and achieved or exceeded expectations.. But by 2009, cracks had started to show - it started when his jumpshot failed him in the 2008 playoffs against Boston (26 on 35%) - no one actually cared because the Cavs' played well that series.. But it was becoming clear that his lack of consistent jumpshooting and long-dribble style lessened the need to get the ball out of his hands/roll the dice against ball movement.. Stan exposed this in 09' by playing him straight up and shutting down his teammates.

Btw, I'm going to be honest, I wouldn't expect him to beat a seasoned Kobe in those 09' Finals given his mental breakdowns in 10' and 11' on lesser stages with more help.. Lebron simply didn't know how to win for many years and his losses as the favorite from 2009-2011 demonstrated that more clearly than anything ever could

The exposure began with stan solving lebron in 09' and giving Dwight his career-defining moment.. Then he mentally broke down and quit in the 2010 ECSF, becoming the 1st player ever to lose in back-to-back years with a 60-win 1 seed.. :facepalm .. Then he lost with a super-team in 2011, basically proving that it's his game (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13867350&postcount=101), not his cast that causes 3/9... :confusedshrug:..
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Wow what a huge waste of time. :lol

The thread was about the regular season. You claimed 2009 was a down year. It was not.

If you were interested in talking about Lebron in the playoffs in 2009 why not just bump one of the 30+ threads you made about that exact subject?

[3ball]

Wow what a huge waste of time. :lol

The thread was about the regular season. You claimed 2009 was a down year. It was not.

If you were interested in talking about Lebron in the playoffs in 2009 why not just bump one of the 30+ threads you made about that exact subject?
It was a weak conference because the East didn't have anyone good to send to the Finals that year, unless you're saying the Magic were juggernauts, and you obviously don't think the Cavs were any good.. So they didn't have anyone good to send because of the Garnett injury, and were therefore a weak conference that didn't require a good cast to win it.

it's actually pretty rare that this happens (that a conference sends a weak team to the Finals that everyone knows will get smashed) - but it happened 5 times from 01-09' when AI, Kidd, Lebron, and Dwight all carried weak casts to the Finals and got destroyed.. it's actually common knowledge and a widespread theme that the East was weak during this time and also after, so I'm not sure why you're disputing it.

By 2009, the Cavs had actually improved from 2007's sub-par cast, and now had one of the better casts in the conference - a mix of experienced vets, shooting, and great defense..

So again, garnett got hurt - and the perfect scenario emerged of a conference up for grabs, with the pre-Garnett conference champ from 07' back on top - but they blew it this time as a huge favorite instead of underdog when they fluked it in 07' - that's what happened.
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[ShawkFactory]

It was a weak conference because the East didn't have anyone good to send to the Finals that year, unless you're saying the Magic were juggernauts, and you obviously don't think the Cavs were any good.. So they didn't have anyone good to send because of the Garnett injury, and were therefore a weak conference that didn't require a good cast to win it.

it's actually pretty rare that this happens (that a conference sends a weak team to the Finals that everyone knows will get smashed) - but it happened 5 times from 01-09' when AI, Kidd, Lebron, and Dwight all carried weak casts to the Finals and got destroyed.. it's actually common knowledge and a widespread theme that the East was weak during this time and also after, so I'm not sure why you're disputing it.

By 2009, the Cavs had actually improved from 2007's sub-par cast, and now had one of the better casts in the conference - a mix of experienced vets, shooting, and great defense..

So again, garnett got hurt - and the perfect scenario emerged of a conference up for grabs, with the pre-Garnett conference champ from 07' back on top - but they blew it this time as a huge favorite instead of underdog when they fluked it in 07' - that's what happened.
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“The east was down”.

3 of the best 4 teams in basketball and won the h2h against the west.

I’m disputing because it’s something you said, and a large premise of this thread, that was wrong.

If you just wanted to discuss the playoffs why didn’t you bump one of your 30+ threads about the exact subject.