Lebron's 2009 regular season should be given the same credit as Dirk's 2007 - none

[3ball]

Dirk won 67 with Josh Howard and coach Avery Johnson in 2007, while Lebron won 66 with Mo' and Mike Brown in 2009.

Mavs were favored over the Spurs that year in the West (the same Spurs that swept the 07' Cavs).

But we all know Lebron is overrated as shit, and this is just another example - both Dirk and Lebron lost as favorites in the playoffs that year and were exposed in their own ways as having weaknesses (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13868380&postcount=46)..

[red1]

this guy wakes up thinking about lebron

[StrongLurk]

ISH should just not respond to 3Balls threads.

I know I am writing this in a 3ball thread...but people should just ignore his trolling.

[AussieSteve]

The 2007 Mavs had a great starting lineup with Howard, Terry, Harris and Dampier all close to their best years. And stackhouse off the bench. There's a bunch of past, present and future all stars there.

Having said that, they definitely overachieved in the RS. And Dirk was recognised accordingly, winning MVP... before losing in the first round as 1st seed to the 8th seed. With Dirk averaging 19.7ppg in 38%.

Only you would equate it with LeBron's 2009, which was one of the most epic regular season and post season runs of all time.

[STATUTORY]

Dirk's season was more impressive tbh since he did it in the west

[3ball]

The 2007 Mavs had a great starting lineup with Howard, Terry, Harris and Dampier all close to their best years. And stackhouse off the bench. There's a bunch of past, present and future all stars there.

Having said that, they definitely overachieved in the RS. And Dirk was recognised accordingly, winning MVP... before losing in the first round as 1st seed to the 8th seed. With Dirk averaging 19.7ppg in 38%.

Only you would equate it with LeBron's 2009, which was one of the most epic regular season and post season runs of all time.


Terry and Dampier were never all-stars, so it's just Howard/Harris having 2 all-star appearances, which falls short of Mo/Zydrunas' 3 appearances.

So there isn't "a bunch of past, present, and future allstars there" - you made that up, and therefore overrating bron as usual and ignoring facts.

[ImKobe]

Dirk won 67 with Josh Howard and coach Avery Johnson in 2007, while Lebron won 66 with Mo' and Mike Brown in 2009.

Mavs were favored over the Spurs that year in the West (the same Spurs that swept the 07' Cavs).

But we all know Lebron is overrated as shit, and this is just another example - both Dirk and Lebron lost as favorites in the playoffs that year and were exposed in their own ways as having weaknesses (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13868380&postcount=46)..

Dirk had a lot less help, especially defensively. Lebron had Andy V, Big Z, Ben Wallace, J.J Hickson was his 4th big.. Mo and Delonte were elite shooters, Szcerbiak and Boobie Gibson off the bench too. That Cavs team was LOADED.

[Lebron6]

Dirk had a lot less help, especially defensively. Lebron had Andy V, Big Z, Ben Wallace, J.J Hickson was his 4th big.. Mo and Delonte were elite shooters, Szcerbiak and Boobie Gibson off the bench too. That Cavs team was LOADED.
meltdown

[Lebron6]

Terry and Dampier were never all-stars, so it's just Howard/Harris having 2 all-star appearances, which falls short of Mo/Zydrunas' 3 appearances.

So there isn't "a bunch of past, present, and future allstars there" - you made that up, and therefore overrating bron as usual and ignoring facts.
meltdown

[SpaceJam2]

Terry and Dampier were never all-stars, so it's just Howard/Harris having 2 all-star appearances, which falls short of Mo/Zydrunas' 3 appearances.

So there isn't "a bunch of past, present, and future allstars there" - you made that up, and therefore overrating bron as usual and ignoring facts.

meltdown

[Vino24]

this guy wakes up thinking about lebron
He does seem like the type to wake up at 3 in the afternoon :lol :lol

[Meticode]

3ball,

Get help.

[TheBranStan]

Dirk won 67 with Josh Howard and coach Avery Johnson in 2007, while Lebron won 66 with Mo' and Mike Brown in 2009.

Mavs were favored over the Spurs that year in the West (the same Spurs that swept the 07' Cavs).

But we all know Lebron is overrated as shit, and this is just another example - both Dirk and Lebron lost as favorites in the playoffs that year and were exposed in their own ways as having weaknesses (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13868380&postcount=46)..
Cringe.

[DMAVS41]

No credit...okay...

How many players in NBA history could get 67 wins out of that Mavs roster?

Maybe like 20...I don't know...maybe less?

No credit for doing that because the Mavs lost to a team far better than an average 8 seed that happened to be a nightmare matchup?

Seems silly to give no credit to a player doing something maybe only 15 guys in history for sure do better...if that.

[SouBeachTalents]

No credit...okay...

How many players in NBA history could get 67 wins out of that Mavs roster?

Maybe like 20...I don't know...maybe less?

No credit for doing that because the Mavs lost to a team far better than an average 8 seed that happened to be a nightmare matchup?

Seems silly to give no credit to a player doing something maybe only 15 guys in history for sure do better...if that.
Do you think 3ball gives even 1/100th of a fck about Dirk :lol The entire point of this thread, of course, is to discuss LeBron

[DMAVS41]

Do you think 3ball gives even 1/100th of a fck about Dirk :lol The entire point of this thread, of course, is to discuss LeBron

Yes, we know that.

However, he'd be far more likely to listen to reasoning about any player other than Lebron.

[Turbo Slayer]

Do you think 3ball gives even 1/100th of a fck about Dirk :lol The entire point of this thread, of course, is to discuss LeBron
Sadly, it's true. Stop this madness! :applause: He only cares about LeBron. He literally never contributes to the OTC or other basketball-related threads. Smh...:facepalm

[3ball]

Do you think 3ball gives even 1/100th of a fck about Dirk :lol The entire point of this thread, of course, is to discuss LeBron



I'm just making the point that regular season runs don't mean much, and don't mean someone has great carrying ability

the carrying ability is shown in the playoffs, where Lebron only overcame one talent deficit in 07', a smaller deficit than MJ overcame by every measure:



2007 Cavs:.. #7 SRS.. 50 wins.. 2 seed
2007 tDET:.. #6 SRS.. 53 wins.. 1 seed

1989 Bulls:. #10 SRS.. 47 wins.. 6 seed
1989 Cavs:. n#1 SRS.. 57 wins.. 3 seed.. 3 perennial all-stars*

* plus 20/5/5 Ron Harper*







Do you think 3ball gives even 1/100th of a fck about Dirk :lol The entire point of this thread, of course, is to discuss LeBron


Lebron had the best 2nd option in the conference in 2018, and the best 2nd and 3rd options (super-teams) from 2011-2017.

So he only made it with a weak cast once (2007), when everyone else was doing it too (09' Dwight, 02/03 Kidd, 01' Iverson).. Maybe you could include 2015, but Kyrie only missed 2 games on that Eastern run.

Ultimately, guys like Dwight, AI, Lebron and Kidd proved that a good cast wasn't needed to win the conference from 2001-2009, yet Lebron failed in 09/10 and stacked the deck from 11-18' to ensure Finals runs

It's pretty damn weak






LeBron carrying scrub teams to conference championships is every bit as important/impressive as winning a ring



Bigger Overachievement: Jordan's 1989 Playoff Run vs. Lebron's 2007


Jordan's Bulls were 47-25 and the 6 seed.
Lebron's Cavs were 50-32 and the 2 seed.


1st Round Jordan:. CLE...(#3 seed, 57-25, #2 ranked defense... 40.0.. 6.0.. 8.1.. 51.8% FG)
1st Round Lebron:. WSH (#7 seed, 41-41, #28 ranked defense.. 27.0.. 8.5.. 7.5.. 42.5% FG)

2nd Round Jordan:. NYK (#2 seed, 52-30, #10 ranked defense... 35.5.. 9.5.. 8.3.. 55.0% FG) [/I]
2nd Round Lebron:. NJN (#6 seed, 41-41, #15 ranked defense... 24.7.. 7.3.. 8.5.. 42.3% FG)

Conf. Finals Jordan:. DET (#1 seed, 62-30, #3 ranked defense... 30.0.. 5.5.. 6.5.. 46.0% FG)
Conf. Finals Lebron:. DET (#1 seed, 53-29, #7 ranked defense... 25.7.. 9.1.. 8.5.. 44.9% FG)






LeBron carrying scrub teams to conference championships is every bit as important/impressive as winning a ring


In 2007, Lebron's 2 seed was swept 4-0 by the champs while he averaged 22/7/6 on 36%

In 1989, Jordan's 6 seed went 6 games with the champs, while he averaged 30/7/6 on 47%


No comparison






LeBron carrying scrub teams to conference championships is every bit as important/impressive as winning a ring


19 Giannis > 07' Lebron




Giannis 19'... ECF vs. Champs - 23/14/6. on 44.8 fg.. 23.7% on jumpers
Lebron. 07' Finals vs. Champs -. 22/7/6.. on 35.6 fg.. 17.9% on jumpers


Links for jumpshot stats:

Giannis: https://stats.nba.com/player/203507/...offs&PORound=3

Lebron: https://stats.nba.com/player/2544/sh...offs&PORound=4







LeBron carrying scrub teams to conference championships is every bit as important/impressive as winning a ring



09' Mo was far better than 89' Pippen:


09' Mo Will RS:. 18/3/4.. 58.8 ts.. 115 ORtg.. 17.1 PER.. 0.165 ws/48.. 2.3 bpm.. 3.1 vorp
89' Pippen RS:.. 14/6/4.. 52.4 ts.. 102 ORtg.. 14.9 PER.. 0.080 ws/48.. 1.4 bpm.. 2.1 vorp

09' Mo Will ECF:.ni 18/3/4.. 50.5 ts.. 102 ORtg.. lost to #4 SRS (2 all-stars)
89' Pippen 1st Rd:. 15/9/4.. 51.0 ts.. 102 ORtg.. beat o #1 SRS (3 all-stars*)

* plus 20/5/5 Ron Harper


Looks like Lebron had the far better cast but lost to a worse team than MJ defeated in 89'.. :confusedshrug:

Mo was also better than 19' Middleton:


MO WILLIAMS.......... 18/3/5.. 58.8 ts.. 115 ortg.. 17.2 PER.. 0.165 ws.. 2.3 bpm.. 3.1 vorp
KHRIS MIDDLETON... 18/5/3.. 55.5 ts.. 106 ortg.. 16.3 PER.. 0.122 ws.. 0.7 bpm.. 1.6 vorp






LeBron carrying scrub teams to conference championships is every bit as important/impressive as winning a ring


Lebron had the.. #1 SRS team in 2009, but lost to the #4 SRS team

Jordan had the #10 SRS team in 1989, but beat the #1 SRS team..

Heck, MJ pulled a bigger upset than Dwight... :oldlol:


^^^^^ That's not significant??...

The reality is that pre-2011 Lebron had 4 teammates that were superior to 89' Pippen:



- all-star Mo
- 2-time all-star Jamison
- steals leader and 22/5/5 first-team defender - 05' Hughes
- 2-time all-star Zydrunas


Yet MJ won 6 rings and Lebron lost to Dwight in 09', faked an elbow injury during a 2010 meltdown, and then started team-hopping in 11'.

Heck, Lebron had the reigning East all-star center in 06' and 22/5/5 all-defender Hughes - one must assume that MJ would've beaten 89' Detroit with these guys rather than 89' Pip

Ultimately, there's this perception that pre-2011 Lebron was carrying lottery casts to high seeds and the Finals, while MJ was losing with Pip... But in reality, MJ's 85-89' casts are worse than anything Lebron ever had... That's why MJ had to carry his team to a close series with the 89' champs, while Lebron shoots 35% but still takes the champs 7 in 08'
.

[3ball]

^^^ The previous post is all facts and stats, so it's not me "trolling"... I literally just present data.. :confusedshrug:

[Turbo Slayer]

^^^ The previous post is all facts and stats, so it's not me "trolling"... I literally just present data.. :confusedshrug:
lol

[AussieSteve]

Terry and Dampier were never all-stars, so it's just Howard/Harris having 2 all-star appearances, which falls short of Mo/Zydrunas' 3 appearances.

So there isn't "a bunch of past, present, and future allstars there" - you made that up, and therefore overrating bron as usual and ignoring facts.

Stackhouse. 2x AS.

[Duncan21formvp]

Dirk's season was more impressive tbh since he did it in the west
This