Is Harden a better offensive player than MJ?

[AirBonner]

Averaging 38ppg right now :wtf: if he maintains this I think he surpasses MJ as far as being a pure scorer

[AussieSteve]

NO

[Marchesk]

Did that poll get 3Ball banned? Where is he?

[Lebron6]

Did that poll get 3Ball banned? Where is he?
Turbo Slayer is the GOAT. :roll:

[tanibanana]

Nope. But he will end up as the 4th greatest SG once his career is over. MJ, KB, DW then Harden.

[LoneyROY7]

Yes.

https://media3.giphy.com/media/cO8S0SmVb4zQa2IxBG/giphy.gif

[Bronbron23]

Averaging 38ppg right now :wtf: if he maintains this I think he surpasses MJ as far as being a pure scorer
Hellllllll no. For one It's a year and era where scoring is way easier.

Second, what about playoffs which is the more accurate measure? Mj has 13 playoffs of 30 points or more and harden has 1. Mj has like 6 playoffs where he scored 35 or more harden has none.

It's mj and it's not close.

[Marchesk]

I mean, if we're going to be serious for a moment, in this era under the rules that Harden takes advantage of, it's a legitimate question as to whether he would be a better scorer in the regular season than prime MJ in 2019.

It does depend on how much MJ adjusted his game to the three point shooting. You would think Mike would take advantage of the spacing with his superior navigational efficiency, and would definitely get plenty of calls and trips to the FT line.

But still, Harden might approach 40 ppg this season.

[Bronbron23]

I mean, if we're going to be serious for a moment, in this era under the rules that Harden takes advantage of, it's a legitimate question as to whether he would be a better scorer in the regular season than prime MJ in 2019.

It does depend on how much MJ adjusted his game to the three point shooting. You would think Mike would take advantage of the spacing with his superior navigational efficiency, and would definitely get plenty of calls and trips to the FT line.

But still, Harden might approach 40 ppg this season.


I hear you but you do know that mj averaged the same amount of points in 87 that harden is now but on better efficiency right?

[LoneyROY7]

I hear you but you do know that mj averaged the same amount of points in 87 that harden is now but on better efficiency right?

MJ averaged over 38 ppg? I just checked his bref and couldn't find anything of the sort...:wtf: :wtf:

[Shogon]

Do you have any Earthly idea how easily MJ would get to the rim in today's NBA? His first step and his speed and jumping put Harden to shame, along with everyone else.

He averaged 38 per game when floor spacing basically didn't exist.

Even if he completely ignored the 3 point line, Jordan would absolutely feast. That ****ing guy would average 45-50 ppg at his peak scoring season. Put 4 three point shooters around him and he's dunking the ball LITERALLY every time down the floor or generating a wide open 3.

[brooks_thompson]

You realize D'Antoni is a non-confrontational dude who just wants to keep his stars happy. And that Morey is a nerd. It's a perfect storm; no other coach in NBA history would let Harden do what he does to the extent that he does it.

Also to the poster above...as much as I hate to admit it, Harden will go down as 3rd best SG over Wade...his longevity and durability will win out.

[Shogon]

You realize D'Antoni is a non-confrontational dude who just wants to keep his stars happy. And that Morey is a nerd. It's a perfect storm; no other coach in NBA history would let Harden do what he does to the extent that he does it.

Also to the poster above...as much as I hate to admit it, Harden will go down as 3rd best SG over Wade...his longevity and durability will win out.

Wade was a better player than Harden... you see... Wade played this thing called defense.

Harden can continue to amass massive scoring seasons and he's still not going to pass Wade for anyone that has a brain.

[Smoke117]

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/24/ea/51/24ea51d535e85405f8dbeb97954ab4f9.gif

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

These threads ALWAYS pop up in the regular-season.

Failproof, man.

[Meticode]

MJ averaged over 38 ppg? I just checked his bref and couldn't find anything of the sort...:wtf: :wtf:
Technically neither has Harden. Harden's only averaged it for about a month into this season. You act as if he's done it for the whole season.

Technically Jordan has averaged 37 and 38 PPG multiple times in his career for a month at a time multiple times...

86-87 season Jordan averaged 38 in Feburary and April: https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01/splits/1987

87-88 season Jordan averaged 39 PPG for the month of April: https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01/splits/1988

[LoneyROY7]

Technically neither has Harden. Harden's only averaged it for about a month into this season. You act as if he's done it for the whole season.

Technically Jordan has averaged 37 and 38 PPG multiple times in his career for a month at a time multiple times...

86-87 season Jordan averaged 38 in Feburary and April: https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01/splits/1987

87-88 season Jordan averaged 39 PPG for the month of April: https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01/splits/1988

39 ppg in a month? That's cute, Harden was avergaing 40+ ppg for 40 games last year. :oldlol: :oldlol:

[Bronbron23]

39 ppg in a month? That's cute, Harden was avergaing 40+ ppg for 40 games last year. :oldlol: :oldlol:
That's cute How many playoffs did he average more than 30? :facepalm

[Bronbron23]

MJ averaged over 38 ppg? I just checked his bref and couldn't find anything of the sort...:wtf: :wtf:
I was talking before this game. I'm sure he'll score 30 next game and it will go back down some. It's irrelevant anyway. When he scores more than 32 a game in the playoffs come talk to me :facepalm

[LoneyROY7]

That's cute How many playoffs did he average more than 30? :facepalm

Last playoffs. :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

[Shogon]

Alright, that's enough ISH for the day.

[Meticode]

Last playoffs. :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:
All in vain. Couldn't even beat a Durant-less Warriors at home.

[Bronbron23]

Last playoffs. :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:
Yeah I know that was the point lol. He has 1 playoff where he scored 30. Mj has 13 thanks for playing:facepalm

[Bronbron23]

Last playoffs. :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:
Actually on second thought let's keep playing

How many playoffs does he have of 33 points or more and how many does mj have?
How many of 34 or more?
How many of 35 or more?
How many playoffs in Houston as the man has he shot better than 41% from the field?
How many playoffs in Houston as the man has he shot under 30% from 3?
How many playoffs has he played elite or even just good defence?
How many playoffs has he made the finals?

And last but not least how many playoffs has he gone all the way to win a chip?

This is to damn easy :facepalm

[stalkerforlife]

Do you have any Earthly idea how easily MJ would get to the rim in today's NBA? His first step and his speed and jumping put Harden to shame, along with everyone else.

He averaged 38 per game when floor spacing basically didn't exist.

Even if he completely ignored the 3 point line, Jordan would absolutely feast. That ****ing guy would average 45-50 ppg at his peak scoring season. Put 4 three point shooters around him and he's dunking the ball LITERALLY every time down the floor or generating a wide open 3.

These are your fellow LeGroupies, bud.

You're in a club with the lowest basketball IQs in basketball history.

Enjoy.

[brooks_thompson]

Wade was a better player than Harden... you see... Wade played this thing called defense.

Harden can continue to amass massive scoring seasons and he's still not going to pass Wade for anyone that has a brain.

I didn't mean that's how I felt personally. That's just how I feel consensus opinion will see it 5, 10 years from now.

[yeaaaman]

You realize D'Antoni is a non-confrontational dude who just wants to keep his stars happy. And that Morey is a nerd. It's a perfect storm; no other coach in NBA history would let Harden do what he does to the extent that he does it.

Also to the poster above...as much as I hate to admit it, Harden will go down as 3rd best SG over Wade...his longevity and durability will win out.

Listen, they play basketball for the accumulation of Harden's stats, not for winning so I definitely agree withe the bolded.

But in no way am I taking Harden over Wade, especially in any game that matters. Wade played both ends of the court and all the talk of longevity pretty sure he's the all-time leader in blocks for a guard and also has some crazy block/steal combination that might be highest all-time for guards as well.

Harden cares about stats and being MVP. Beyond that the guy is literally stretching the definition of what it means to "play basketball". Walking to the rim and reaching the ball in between players and raising your arms hoping to get a whistle, with no intent of even making an attempt at the basket - half the time he's playing another sport that involves trying to make the referee blow the whistle, not score the ball. I don't know how many times I've seen some shhit like this (go to 11:37) - he almost cost them the game with this shhit and I swear he did the exact same thing last week and I was dying...like honestly wtf??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVPTqsa8cL0&t=572s

That looks like half his drives to the basket. If not he just drives at the rim and guys just walk away or beside him with their hands up and he just lays it in with little to no resistance, either that or he's shooting step back 3's to the tune of 1-8, 2-18, 3-14, 6-14 and 2-16. That is actually a five game stretch.

He to me is like a gimmick, kinda like that D2 college player who scored 100+ pts because the team based their whole philosophy on literally running a fast-break 3 point offense without playing D, may have even incorporated a Vivek Ranadive 4-man defense. The guy has skill but I for one am not one who subscirbes to his game at all.

Nothing tells you a guy is only in it for himself more than someone routinely jacking 17 3's, routinely not playing defense or giving a shhit about getting backdoored and someone who can score 200 and some odd points unassisted and not making a single back cut. Don't forget he'll sabotage the offense if he doesn't get to pound the air out of the rock like he did with CP3, standing in the corner with his hands on his hips.

Oh, and that MJ stuff, you can fck off with that:coleman:

[CodeBreaker]

Harden is a chucker.

[Marchesk]

Listen, they play basketball for the accumulation of Harden's stats, not for winning so I definitely agree withe the bolded.

You mention some legitimate criticisms of Harden's game, but the Rockets are a winning team with him, and have competed fairly well with the Warriors the last couple seasons.

Is there a way this Rockets team could win more? Is Harden's style of play holding them back?

[yeaaaman]

You mention some legitimate criticisms of Harden's game, but the Rockets are a winning team with him, and have competed fairly well with the Warriors the last couple seasons.

Is there a way this Rockets team could win more? Is Harden's style of play holding them back?

Hey, I'm a Raptors fan and we were a winning team for a number of years until fizzling out every year when it mattered against the best. Even without Kawhi we look like we're set up much better than we ever would have been with Derozan because we paly a more viable and complete brand of basketball with role specific talent up and down the roster and guys who have bought in. That's not a knock on Derozan but he just wasn't the guy to take us to the next level, nor his style of play.

I feel similarly about Harden. This is an extreme style of basketball that looks good on paper (when you ignore the FG%) but I really have never been a fan of the Rockets game plan. A few years ago it seemed everyone had the green light for taking 3's whether they were good or bad shots. Now, mostly they still do but there's a lot more Harden ball dominance. I don't see that working in the playoffs - and it hasn't. Got bounced by the Spurs without Kawhi and Duncan I believe? Couldn't get it done with no KD or Curry the last two years? Cool but not getting you a ring let alone to the finals.

You need a different brand of ball that will withstand playoff basketball and the tighter whistle when they stop calling all that ticky tack flopping crap. I wish Harden would use less dribbles and add a midrange game. Pretty sure he can shoot it be literally never does. I think he took less than 1 a game last year. But then again that's not how Daryl Morey's calculator is calibrated so we'll see if he can average 40ppg through the playoffs and finals and win them a chip playing 1-on-1 because that seems to be the direction they're going in.

[LoneyROY7]

This dumb motherf*cker just tried to compare Harden to Demar Derozan. Go do something else, you don't understand ball even a little bit. :facepalm

[yeaaaman]

This dumb motherf*cker just tried to compare Harden to Demar Derozan. Go do something else, you don't understand ball even a little bit. :facepalm

lol my god wow... you're the idiot who actively ignored everything I said and then took it out of context - the style of play doesn't work, in MY opinion. And neither did Derozans. No, they clearly don't have the same style of play, maybe I'll draw it out for you next time.

Are you offended because I highlighted what I see as flaws in your favourite players game? You're welcome to debate them but then again you're the "dumb motherf*cker" comparing Harden to Jordan :confusedshrug:

[Smook A.]

Harden is a chucker.
Pretty dumb thing to say after how he played today

[CodeBreaker]

Pretty dumb thing to say after how he played today
Yea one game changes everything right?

It's dumber to say that Harden is not a chucker

[Smook A.]

Yea one game changes everything right?

It's dumber to say that Harden is not a chucker
And he's still efficient, just like last season when he dropped 36 ppg on 61% TS

You saying he's a chucker doesn't change that

[LoneyROY7]

lol my god wow... you're the idiot who actively ignored everything I said and then took it out of context - the style of play doesn't work, in MY opinion. And neither did Derozans. No, they clearly don't have the same style of play, maybe I'll draw it out for you next time.

Are you offended because I highlighted what I see as flaws in your favourite players game? You're welcome to debate them but then again you're the "dumb motherf*cker" comparing Harden to Jordan :confusedshrug:

Let's compare him to the guy that led your team to a championship instead. :oldlol:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EJTYRncW4AMOgnW.jpg

[yeaaaman]

Let's compare him to the guy that led your team to a championship instead. :oldlol:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EJTYRncW4AMOgnW.jpg

Why am I not suprised a Harden fan is only looking at numbers and not results.

Sure Harden is better than Kawhi, has a better track record of success, wil help his team win more :cheers:

[LoneyROY7]

Why am I not suprised a Harden fan is only looking at numbers and not results.

Sure Harden is better than Kawhi, has a better track record of success, wil help his team win more :cheers:

What I do know is Harden dropped 47/7/6 on his dome tonight. :cheers:

[yeaaaman]

What I do know is Harden dropped 47/7/6 on his dome tonight. :cheers:

I didn't watch tonights game but I don't need to - this is par for the course for him. I'm done getting excited for Harden in the regular season. You should be too, for a player his level at this point in his career it's about the playoffs.

Portland looks like ass I only really see the two LA teams as the top tier teams out west. HOU should bein the mix with them with Denver and UTA not far behind. If Harden is the best in the league or the player some of you guys think he is he should have just as much a chance as anyone, that's what the best players do.

[LAmbruh]

easily and it's not even close

[sportjames23]

easily and it's not even close

LOL your hatred and jealousy of MJ has gone to the next level. :oldlol:

[CodeBreaker]

And he's still efficient, just like last season when he dropped 36 ppg on 61% TS

You saying he's a chucker doesn't change that
He's an efficient chucker. More efficient than Kobe.

Still can't beat the Durant-less Warriors, can't win games when it matters.

[LoneyROY7]

He's an efficient chucker. More efficient than Kobe.

Still can't beat the Durant-less Warriors, can't win games when it matters.

You can't win a title on your own. Harden had 35/8/5 in the game 6 they lost. He needed some more help, it just wasn't there.

Curry and Klay hit big-time shots. They are big-time players. It is what it is.

[CodeBreaker]

You can't win a title on your own. Harden had 35/8/5 in the game 6 they lost. He needed some more help, it just wasn't there.

Curry and Klay hit big-time shots. They are big-time players. It is what it is.
yea, let's pretend CP3 didn't exist
and Tucker was ballin'

:lol

[LoneyROY7]

yea, let's pretend CP3 didn't exist
and Tucker was ballin'

:lol

CP did play well in game 6...although I wish he would've done it in game 5 instead. When he had the ball in his hands the entire 4th and we couldn't find a way to close out the most important game of the series.

[SouBeachTalents]

Of course a thread asking if Harden is better than Jordan is gonna reach 4+ pages :oldlol:

[Manny98]

Better shooter = Harden
Better passer = Harden
Better at drawing fouls = Harden
Better handles = Harden

[Bronbron23]

Better shooter = Harden
Better passer = Harden
Better at drawing fouls = Harden
Better handles = Harden

Better passer= Jordan, harden is ball dominant point gaurd in a stats on steroids system and mj was shooting gaurd in the triangle. Of course he's gonna have more assists. If you actually watched mj you would know he was the way better passer. Put him in this system and his assists would be more around Westbrook's assists numbers. Probably a little better because he's a better passer than Westbrook too.

Better at drawing fouls= the era makes it hard to judge but I'll concede this mainly because mj didn't need to flop to get alot of foul shots to score.

Better shooter= overall mj, harden is a better 3 point shooter in the reg season but mj is actually better in n the playoffs or at least as good. Mj was way better in the mid range and post so it's easily mj overall.

Handles= harden

Rebounds= mj

Defence= mj by a mile

Leadership= mj

Clutch= mj

Winning= mj

Do I have to keep going :facepalm

[Vino24]

Yes. Harden is a threat all over the floor. MJ was only a threat with in the 3pt line

[ImKobe]

Better shooter = Harden
Better passer = Harden
Better at drawing fouls = Harden
Better handles = Harden

Better shooter = MJ. His mid-range was the best of all-time, more reliable than Harden's 3s which always seem to miss in big playoff moments
passing = Jordan was a great playmaker himself, '91 MJ is a better passer than any version of Harden
Foul drawing = even, Jordan didn't need to flop and still averaged more FTs for a season than Harden ever has at 11.9, Harden's best was 11.0 last season, now imagine MJ with no hand-checking and how easy it is to get fouls in today's league.
better handles = MJ, he was far more efficient, needed 2 dribbles to get off a wide open shot, didn't get stripped as much, just overall less turnover prone and that's in the hand-checking era.

All that and you look at Jordan's far superior athletic ability and it's not even close, Harden is a better 3-Point shooter but he's not Curry, Jordan was a lot more consistent with his scoring. Harden is a master at scoring 30 on 5/15 or 6/20 shooting but Jordan consistently made a high percentage of his shots, which obviously limited the number of transition opportunities for his opponents.

[Bronbron23]

Yes. Harden is a threat all over the floor. MJ was only a threat with in the 3pt line
Actually harden is only a threat from 3 and at the rim. Mj was a threat in mid range, post and at the rim

And if we're talking playoffs harden is only a threat at the rim

[LAmbruh]

Better shooter = Harden
Better passer = Harden
Better at drawing fouls = Harden
Better handles = Harden
:rockon: :dancin

[Marchesk]

Another thing not mentioned is that Harden is averaging more assists than Jordan ever did in addition to points so far this season. @3Ball

[Bronbron23]

Another thing not mentioned is that Harden is averaging more assists than Jordan ever did in addition to points so far this season. @3Ball
This is why stats don't always equal better. Harden is a point gaurd playing in Dantoni system which means the offence pretty much runs totally through him. Mj was a 2 gaurd playing in the triangle which plays alot off the post. Of course he's gonna have more assists. You put mj on point gaurd and he'd average 8 or 9 assists like he did when he played more point with Collins in 88. You put mj on point gaurd in Dantoni system and he'd average 10 or more. He probably wouldn't win that way but his stats would be even crazier

[AirBonner]

This is why stats don't always equal better. Harden is a point gaurd playing in Dantoni system which means the offence pretty much runs totally through him. Mj was a 2 gaurd playing in the triangle which plays alot off the post. Of course he's gonna have more assists. You put mj on point gaurd and he'd average 8 or 9 assists like he did when he played more point with Collins in 88. You put mj on point gaurd in Dantoni system and he'd average 10 or more. He probably wouldn't win that way but his stats would be even crazier
The stats obviously don

[yeaaaman]

Actually harden is only a threat from 3 and at the rim. Mj was a threat in mid range, post and at the rim

And if we're talking playoffs harden is only a threat at the rim

Wait, you've never seen Harden's dominant post up game? His pull up midrange, fade-away midrange game? Give the guy some credit, Finals MVP for sure :sleeping

[Bronbron23]

[QUOTE=AirBonner]The stats obviously don

[Bronbron23]

Wait, you've never seen Harden's dominant post up game? His pull up midrange, fade-away midrange game? Give the guy some credit, Finals MVP for sure :sleeping
So many trolls on here I can't tell if your joking. I'm gonna give you some credit though and assume that you are.

[3ball]

I mean, if we're going to be serious for a moment, in this era under the rules that Harden takes advantage of, it's a legitimate question as to whether he would be a better scorer in the regular season than prime MJ in 2019.


Are you saying mj wouldn't take advantage?

The rules are an argument against harden, not for him





It does depend on how much MJ adjusted his game to the three point shooting.


No, it doesn't

MJ averaged 37 shooting all contested 2's. .. he could do that in any era, and even easier in today's spaced-out, hands-off era

Furthermore, kawhi averages 28 while shooting thress about the same as MJ did in 1990 or 1993, or the 91-93' Finals ... So MJ has already shot at the level of today's best player and reigning champion, WITHOUT focusing on the shot or playing with today's spacing strategy that makes 3-pt looks easy to get





But still, Harden might approach 40 ppg this season.


It's easier to score WITH spacing and hands-off defense than without ...

That's why every player and coach says mj would average 40+ back in 05', let alone today..

they've been saying that ever since the rule was changed in 05'

[Smoke117]

Wait...is this fakkot Loney actually trying to argue Harden is a better offensive player than Jordan? He realizes that the Rockets only took a peak warriors team to 7 games because of CP3, right? :oldlol: Harden was LITERALLY doing his very best to shoot them out of their 2nd and 3rd win in that series.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Wait...is this fakkot Loney actually trying to argue Harden is a better offensive player than Jordan? He realizes that the Rockets only took a peak warriors team to 7 games because of CP3, right? :oldlol: Harden was LITERALLY doing his very best to shoot them out of their 2nd and 3rd win in that series.

You answered your own question there.

Anyone remember when "Loney" was a Clipper fan? Lame ass frontrunner :oldlol:

[AirBonner]

Are you saying mj wouldn't take advantage?

The rules are an argument against harden, not for him



No, it doesn't

MJ averaged 37 shooting all contested 2's. .. he could do that in any era, and even easier in today's spaced-out, hands-off era

Furthermore, kawhi averages 28 while shooting thress about the same as MJ did in 1990 or 1993, or the 91-93' Finals ... So MJ has already shot at the level of today's best player and reigning champion, WITHOUT focusing on the shot or playing with today's spacing strategy that makes 3-pt looks easy to get



It's easier to score WITH spacing and hands-off defense than without ...

That's why every player and coach says mj would average 40+ back in 05', let alone today..

they've been saying that ever since the rule was changed in 05'
All contested? I don

[3ball]

All contested? I don’t even have to look it up to find that you are lying :biggums:


Today's spacing strategy allows a layup/threes shot allocation and objective, whereas the no-spacing of prior eras resulted in a contested 2-pointer shot expectation or objective.. Teams expected to take many contested 2's in traffic, so players needed to have elite mid-range touch and a versatile or go-to mid-range repertoire to be a good scorer back then.. Those were the shots available when you don't have 4 teammates spacing the floor for a lone ball-handler like today's game.

the lack of spacing and resulting expectation of contested shots forced players to develop their own individually-unique way of making shots on defenders, i.e. no one plays like Bird, Magic, Kareem, McAdoo, Wilkes, Bernard King, Dominique, English, Dantley, Jordan (until Kobe), etc,.. Whereas today's players mostly look and play alike, since they're mostly taking the same type of shots over and over (3-and-D robots, as opposed to contested mid-range).





All contested? I don’t even have to look it up to find that you are lying :biggums:


Not all shots were contested obviously, but the expected shot allocation was contested shots, not open threes/layups that today's spread floor and spacing strategy allows.. Just look at the tape - MJ is taking many highly-contested shots (he got a reputation for "hangtime") that he'd never need to take in today's spaced-out, open-shot fest.

so while teams today attempt 35 threes per game to keep the floor spaced and execute the optimal shot allocation (threes/layups), the spread floor strategy and spacing didn't exist in the 80's - they attempted basically zero threes back then, which made the paint look like a crowded line outside the nightclub - all 10 players stood in or around the paint area.. The lack of modern spacing strategy prevented the layups/threes shot allocation and contested 2-pointers were the norm and expectation.





All contested? I don’t even have to look it up to find that you are lying :biggums:


So yes, most of MJ's shots were contested, because contested 2's were the expected shot compared to the open threes/layups allocation that today's spacing yields.. But even with today's layups/threes objective, Kawhi is the best player specifically because he can hit contested mid-range shots at momentum-swinging times of the game when the threes/layups allocation has been taken away.

Nylon Calculus says it better:



The difference between many good and great teams — and, indeed, many good and great players — is what they do in the last five seconds of the shot clock when the plan breaks down. Even the most prepared teams will run into those situations, particularly against great defenses. The deeper a team gets in the 24-second shot clock, the more difficult it becomes for that team to find layup and three-point opportunities, and the ability to knock down the mid-range jumper thus becomes king.

https://the-cauldron.com/lost-art-the-mid-range-jumper-64b64fa0f081

[Micku]

Averaging 38ppg right now :wtf: if he maintains this I think he surpasses MJ as far as being a pure scorer

For the thread answer, not really. For multiple reasons.

1. Playoffs.

2. MJ still has better advance offensive numbers. James Harden might be better if you consider raw numbers if you take into account of his apg. Not including the playoffs.

3. It's still early. If James Harden keep this up, he might surpass MJ's 37 ppg in 87. But MJ average 39 ppg that season in his first 20 games. So, it's premature atm. James Harden is off to a good start tho.


4. It depends on how much we want to take the rules in. The rules and coaching philosophy made it easier now to for perimeter players to dominate. The spacing, you can't put your hands on the players as often, the 3 defensive seconds, and etc. You still have zone tho. He takes advantage of it. He is super crafty.

But overall, naw. He can't do it in the playoffs. KD I think is a better as a pure scorer since he could do it in multiple ways and has got it done in the playoffs. But James Harden is one of the best offensive players ever no doubt. But until he could retain his same numbers in the playoffs, it doesn't really matter what he does in the RS. At least when you compare him to MJ. He is up there when it comes to putting the points on the scoreboard, despite his annoying playstyle. He is the best since MJ in terms of pure ppg. But again, not in the playoffs.

[yeaaaman]

So many trolls on here I can't tell if your joking. I'm gonna give you some credit though and assume that you are.

There are a good amount of trolls here but if you read any of my previous comments you'd know if I was being serious or not

[SouBeachTalents]

For the thread answer, not really. For multiple reasons.

1. Playoffs.

2. MJ still has better advance offensive numbers. James Harden might be better if you consider raw numbers if you take into account of his apg. Not including the playoffs.

3. It's still early. If James Harden keep this up, he might surpass MJ's 37 ppg in 87. But MJ average 39 ppg that season in his first 20 games. So, it's premature atm. James Harden is off to a good start tho.


4. It depends on how much we want to take the rules in. The rules and coaching philosophy made it easier now to for perimeter players to dominate. The spacing, you can't put your hands on the players as often, the 3 defensive seconds, and etc. You still have zone tho. He takes advantage of it. He is super crafty.

But overall, naw. He can't do it in the playoffs. KD I think is a better as a pure scorer since he could do it in multiple ways and has got it done in the playoffs. But James Harden is one of the best offensive players ever no doubt. But until he could retain his same numbers in the playoffs, it doesn't really matter what he does in the RS. At least when you compare him to MJ. He is up there when it comes to putting the points on the scoreboard, despite his annoying playstyle. He is the best since MJ in terms of pure ppg. But again, not in the playoffs.
Lmao at wasting all that time trying to argue Jordan > Harden

[WadeStan]

Harden isn't even an obviously better passer than MJ, Kobe, or Wade. He gets more assists, sure. But he has the ball 24/7. It's either him or a kick out for a 3 pointer. But when Kobe (perhaps to prove a point) dedicated himself to being Kobe Johnson that one year, he showed he could average a triple double. MJ and Wade are similarly gifted in that department. Wade and Kobe are also elite when it comes to lobs and delivering the ball to bigs where they like it. Sure, Harden hasn't played with anyone the likes of Shaq, but Wade made even Whiteside look better than he was on offense... Dragic, an actual PG, couldn't do that.

However, the chasm between the consensus top 3 SGs and Harden on defense is greater than any alleged advantage Harden has. And I'm only counting one: That's shooting 3s. Harden doesn't even have an elite postgame like those 3 either.

[Manny98]

3balls favourite stat OBPM

Hardens MVP season - 10.5

MJs career high - 9.8

/Thread stats don't lie Harden is better

https://media.giphy.com/media/3oAt2dA6LxMkRrGc0g/giphy.gif

[AirBonner]

3balls favourite stat OBPM

Hardens MVP season - 10.5

MJs career high - 9.8

/Thread stats don't lie Harden is better

https://media.giphy.com/media/3oAt2dA6LxMkRrGc0g/giphy.gif
Harden >>> MJ
Facts

[Round Mound]

Play-offs:

Jordan: 33.4 PPG on 48.7% FG taking 25.1 FGAs PG and 9.9 FTAs PG
Harden: 22.9 PPG on 41.9% FG taking 16.3 FGAs PG and 7.8 FTAs PG

Harden might be a better passer and long range shooter but he gets most of his assits by feeding 3-point shooters like that of Lebron,

Any other skills: Post Play, Mid Range, Slashing, Finishing, Dunking, Going Coast to Coast, 1st step Quickness, Speed, Agility, Hang Time, Rebounding, Defense, Clutch Play, Leadership and Intangibles he is not even close to MJ.

NOT EVEN CLOSE

[tpols]

3balls favourite stat OBPM

Hardens MVP season - 10.5

MJs career high - 9.8

/Thread stats don't lie Harden is better

https://media.giphy.com/media/3oAt2dA6LxMkRrGc0g/giphy.gif


When a guy monopolizes every possession for 80% of the game, of course the team output is going to drop when he leaves. It's poor teamwork, and expected that would happen mate.

[bizil]

Midrange - MJ
Postup - MJ
Slashing- MJ
Passing - Harden (slightly though)
Three point - Harden
Handles - Harden
FT - Harden
Efficiency - MJ
Motor - MJ
Clutch Factor - MJ

Harden is more skilled in terms of shooting, passing, and handles as a package. BUT in terms of the ACTUAL scoring numbers and efficiency as a package, MJ IS STILL the best offensive perimeter player ever. The ONLY THING he wasn't very good to great at was three point shooting. And that was mainly because MJ didn't grow up with the three point line. The FIRST TIME he played with a three point line in legit competition was in the NBA! When u line up ALL the categories I just listed, Kobe, KD, and Bird would be stiffer competition for MJ quite frankly.

[3ba11]

Who would ask such a question

[1987_Lakers]

Who would ask such a question

Agreed, Harden by a mile.

[Spurs m8]

Who would ask such a question

The actual idiot that did, which is the hilarious part hahaha

An absolute spud

[TheGoatest]

Harden is definitely better at:

-3 point shooting (not that big of a deal though considering Russell Westbrook (.305) is better than Jordan (.289) at shooting from behind the non-shortened 3-point line as well)
-Passing
-Drawing fouls, in a bullshyt way, but also in a legit, skill-based drawing fouls way

[3ba11]

Harden is definitely better at:

-3 point shooting (not that big of a deal though considering Russell Westbrook (.305) is better than Jordan (.289) at shooting from behind the non-shortened 3-point line as well)
-Passing
-Drawing fouls, in a bullshyt way, but also in a legit, skill-based drawing fouls way


Jordan was a better passer than Harden

He averaged 30/9/11 at point guard in 1989 and that was without today's spaced-out, hands-off guard format.

Otherwise, he played off-ball and still averaged 6-11 APG (most ever in Finals outside of Magic)

[TheGoatest]

Jordan was a better passer than Harden

He averaged 30/9/11 at point guard in 1989 and that was without today's spaced-out, hands-off guard format.

Otherwise, he played off-ball and still averaged 6-11 APG (most ever in Finals outside of Magic)

Harden averaged 11 over an entire season. Jordan averaged 8.0 apg once.
Jordan never averaged more than 7 apg in any other of his other seasons. Harden averaged 7 apg 8 times (including this season).

Otherwise, Jordan averaged 2.3 assists in a finals series - lower than any of Bill Russell's apg averages in his 12 finals except for one where Russell averaged exactly 2.3 as well.

[Baller789]

I would like to see the argument when the scoring is adjusted for pace.

[3ba11]

Harden averaged 11 over an entire season. Jordan averaged 8.0 apg once.
Jordan never averaged more than 7 apg in any other of his other seasons. Harden averaged 7 apg 8 times (including this season).

Otherwise, Jordan averaged 2.3 assists in a finals series - lower than any of Bill Russell's apg averages in his 12 finals except for one where Russell averaged exactly 2.3 as well.


When Jordan dominated the ball like Harden (brought the ball up and played a PG role), he averaged 11 apg in 1989 (during the stretch at PG).. Then he's the only player to average 10+ apg in a series without playing PG (91' Finals)

Furthermore, Jordan didn't just distribute - he created assists for teammates by being an off-ball assist - this increased the TEAM's assist capacity and yielded high-assist teams, while Harden's ball-dominance hogs the assists and has low-assist teams.

So Harden is nowhere near Jordan..

And btw - regarding scoring, I'm amazed that people have so little knowledge about the game that they compare Harden's dribble-dribble-dribble kiddie-style to what Jordan did

[TheGoatest]

When Jordan dominated the ball like Harden (brought the ball up and played a PG role), he averaged 11 apg in 1989 (during the stretch at PG).. Then he's the only player to average 10+ apg in a series without playing PG (91' Finals)

So Harden is nowhere near Jordan..

And btw - regarding scoring, I'm amazed that people have so little knowledge about the game that they compare Harden's dribble-dribble-dribble kiddie-style to what Jordan did

Jordan self-admittedly stat-padded for triple doubles over the course of the 1988-89 season. He and his coaching staff did everything they could to get him as many assists and rebounds. And his very best while stat-padding was 8.0 assists per game.

Devin Booker is a greater scorer than Jordan. When he tried to score as much as he could, he got 70 points. Jordan never did.

[3ba11]

Jordan self-admittedly stat-padded for triple doubles over the course of the 1988-89 season. He and his coaching staff did everything they could to get him as many assists and rebounds. And his very best while stat-padding was 8.0 assists per game.

Devin Booker is a greater scorer than Jordan. When he tried to score as much as he could, he got 70 points. Jordan never did.


Every player in history tracks stats at some point and anyone who played knows that's nothing.. and even if you never played, there's plenty of documentation of Lebron, Westbrook or your favorite player tracking their stats

And Jordan's 8 assists were a combination of PG play (11 apg) and off-guard play (7 apg)

Furthermore, Jordan didn't just distribute - he created assists for teammates by being an off-ball assist target - this increased the TEAM's assist capacity and yielded high-assist teams, while Harden's ball-dominance hogs the assists and has low-assist teams.

So Harden is nowhere near Jordan

[TheGoatest]

Every player in history tracks stats at some point and anyone who played knows that's nothing.. and even if you never played, there's plenty of documentation of Lebron, Westbrook or your favorite player tracking their stats

And Jordan's 8 assists were a combination of PG play (11 apg) and off-guard play (7 apg)

Furthermore, Jordan didn't just distribute - he created assists for teammates by being an off-ball assist target - this increased the TEAM's assist capacity and yielded high-assist teams, while Harden's ball-dominance hogs the assists and has low-assist teams.

So Harden is nowhere near Jordan

The point is that Jordan stat-padded that particular season, and got nowhere near those numbers again when he didn't actively pursue high assist numbers. Why? Because passing was just not a natural part of his game. Not that 8.0 for a career high apg season for a guard is particularly high to begin with.

Furthermore, your crappy "hockey-assist" argument can be made for any player who is a focal point of the opponent's defense.

[Phoenix]

Jordan was a better passer than Harden

He averaged 30/9/11 at point guard in 1989 and that was without today's spaced-out, hands-off guard format.

Otherwise, he played off-ball and still averaged 6-11 APG (most ever in Finals outside of Magic)

He'd be a better shotblocker than Russell and rebounder than Wilt if he just focused on it, right 3balls?

[Baller789]

I would like to see the argument when the scoring is adjusted for pace.

Crickets anyone?

[TheGoatest]

He'd be a better shotblocker than Russell and rebounder than Wilt if he just focused on it, right 3balls?

Jordan stans probably believe that he would've been a better golfer than Tiger Woods had he focused on golfing.

They'll use this out of context clip to show that Jordan could've been the GOAT golfer:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DE12k6XIKnM

Just like they use out of context clips of him hitting 3 pointers over hundreds of games worth of data and detailed shot distance data from his last 4 seasons in a desperate attempt to show that he was a good 3-point shooter.

[Bronbron23]

Harden is definitely better at:

-3 point shooting (not that big of a deal though considering Russell Westbrook (.305) is better than Jordan (.289) at shooting from behind the non-shortened 3-point line as well)
-Passing
-Drawing fouls, in a bullshyt way, but also in a legit, skill-based drawing fouls way

Reg season maybe. In the post season when it mattered mj was more efficient from 3 from the non shortened line than harden, westbrook and even lebron. So if mj sucks from 3 so does bron when it comes to the post season. Can't have it both ways little buddy

[TheGoatest]

Reg season maybe. In the post season when it mattered mj was more efficient from 3 from the non shortened line than harden, westbrook and even lebron. So if mj sucks from 3 so does bron when it comes to the post season. Can't have it both ways little buddy

In

Game 7s
Elimination games
Closeout games

aka when it matters the most of the most, LeBron has a higher ppg than Jordan in all three. So in addition to being a vastly superior rebounder and passer, LeBron is a better scorer than Jordan as well.

Another thing I forgot about Harden is that he is a better free throw shooter than Jordan as well. So that's another thing Harden is better at.

[3ba11]

The point is that Jordan stat-padded that particular season, and got nowhere near those numbers again when he didn't actively pursue high assist numbers. Why? Because passing was just not a natural part of his game. Not that 8.0 for a career high apg season for a guard is particularly high to begin with.

Furthermore, your crappy "hockey-assist" argument can be made for any player who is a focal point of the opponent's defense.


1989 was the only year he played point guard, and the 24-game stretch of 11 apg increased his overall assist average to 8.. If he played point guard the entire year, he would've averaged 11 apg for the season.

So it wasn't stat-padding - it was just playing point guard, where triple-doubles are tracked and valued - so Jordan made sure he was goat at them and therefore adding max value for that position

[Bronbron23]

In

Game 7s
Elimination games
Closeout games

aka when it matters the most of the most, LeBron has a higher ppg than Jordan in all three. So in addition to being a vastly superior rebounder and passer, LeBron is a better scorer than Jordan as well.

Another thing I forgot about Harden is that he is a better free throw shooter than Jordan as well. So that's another thing Harden is better at.

Please bruh. Bron lost in elimination games to howard and dirk when he had a stacked team. Nuff said

[TheGoatest]

1989 was the only year he played point guard, and the 24-game stretch of 11 apg increased his overall assist average to 8.. If he played point guard the entire year, he would've averaged 11 apg for the season.

So it wasn't stat-padding - it was just playing point guard, where triple-doubles are tracked and valued - so Jordan made sure he was goat at them and therefore adding max value for that position

Are you accusing this April 11th 1989 story and its writer Sam McManis from L.A. Times of flat out misquoting Jordan? That the story is "fake news"??

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1989-04-11-sp-1572-story.html

https://images4.imagebam.com/44/9d/ad/ME4JDZO_o.png

[TheGoatest]

Please bruh. Bron lost in elimination games to howard and dirk when he had a stacked team. Nuff said

Jordan finished below a team whose best player by far was a rookie Chuck Person while playing with a teammate whose numbers averages were only eclipsed by the likes of Charles Barkley, Kevin Garnett and Giannis since.

[3ba11]

Are you accusing this April 11th 1989 story and its writer Sam McManis from L.A. Times of flat out misquoting Jordan? That the story is "fake news"??

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1989-04-11-sp-1572-story.html

https://images4.imagebam.com/44/9d/ad/ME4JDZO_o.png


That's standard and a non-story - triple doubles are a stat that every point guard tracks and they're considered contributions to winning - they're tracked for every point guard and by every point guard

Accept that Jordan was a 30/10/10 point guard WITHOUT today's ball-handler format (spacing and hands-off)

[Bronbron23]

Jordan finished below a team whose best player by far was a rookie Chuck Person while playing with a teammate whose numbers averages were only eclipsed by the likes of Charles Barkley, Kevin Garnett and Giannis since.

When was this? Please tell me your not talking about mj's rookie year

[TheMan]

Thread didn't age well :ohwell:

[1987_Lakers]

Thread didn't age well :ohwell:

Really? Harden is 32 years old, MJ at 32: 41 fg% :ohwell:

[GrayGoat]

3ball was actually up at 2am arguing harden vs MJ lol that’s some funny shit

[1987_Lakers]

3ball was actually up at 2am arguing harden vs MJ lol that’s some funny shit

:oldlol:

[GrayGoat]

3ball losing sleep over Harden. Imagine what LeBron does to this poor sap :biggums:

[3ba11]

Really? Harden is 32 years old, MJ at 32: 41 fg% :ohwell:


MJ was scoring champ and top 5 DPOY from 88-98' (25-35 years old)

(btw, for all your talk of Pippen's defense, he wasn't a perennial top 5 DPOY defender like MJ)

[j3lademaster]

MJ was scoring champ and top 5 DPOY from 88-98' (25-35 years old)

(btw, for all your talk of Pippen's defense, he wasn't a perennial top 5 DPOY defender like MJ)But the thread is about their offense.

[3ba11]

But the thread is about their offense.


I mentioned scoring champ

[Bronbron23]

Really? Harden is 32 years old, MJ at 32: 41 fg% :ohwell:

Mj at 32 was 30 ppg on 50% fg, scoring champ, mvp, first team defense, all nba, fmvp and won a chip.

Harden looks like he'll be 23-24 ppg at best on shit fg% with none 9f the mentioned above.

Dude you can't be serious right?

[j3lademaster]

Mj at 32 was 30 ppg on 50% fg, scoring champ, mvp, first team defense, all nba, fmvp and won a chip.

Harden looks like he'll be 23-24 ppg at best on shit fg% with none 9f the mentioned above.

Dude you can't be serious right?even if we only use Harden's best years, the Playoffs have to matter. Jordan regularly raised his ppg in the playoffs, and pushed it even further in the finals. He was the ultimate big game competitor.

Sets 3 point shooting record even though it's not his strongsuit, because a sports journalist dared to say he's better than Clyde at everything BUT 3point shooting.

Averages 11 assists per game because he's facing Magic. Wanted to prove he was an even better playmaker.

Drops 40+ ppg against the suns after buying Chuck earrings and taking him on a date.

LoL @ anything Harden's ever done compared to this shit.

[ClipperRevival]

https://c.tenor.com/mx9fNn1S4PwAAAAC/spit-take.gif

[ClipperRevival]

Mj at 32 was 30 ppg on 50% fg, scoring champ, mvp, first team defense, all nba, fmvp and won a chip.

Harden looks like he'll be 23-24 ppg at best on shit fg% with none 9f the mentioned above.

Dude you can't be serious right?

https://c.tenor.com/38nncampLMsAAAAC/will-smith-shookt.gif

[TheMan]

Mj at 32 was 30 ppg on 50% fg, scoring champ, mvp, first team defense, all nba, fmvp and won a chip.

Harden looks like he'll be 23-24 ppg at best on shit fg% with none 9f the mentioned above.

Dude you can't be serious right?

He admits to liking to troll so I won't even bother with him, seriously laughable that Harden is a more complete offensive player than MJ, lmao

[Bronbron23]

He admits to liking to troll so I won't even bother with him, seriously laughable that Harden is a more complete offensive player than MJ, lmao

Yeah man the shit isn't even close.

[1987_Lakers]

Mj at 32 was 30 ppg on 50% fg, scoring champ, mvp, first team defense, all nba, fmvp and won a chip.

Harden looks like he'll be 23-24 ppg at best on shit fg% with none 9f the mentioned above.

Dude you can't be serious right?

You sure about that? MJ was born February 1963.

He returned to the Bulls in March 1995 making him 32, and in that season he shot 41%. :D

Next time do your proper research instead of relying on basketballreference for age.

[3ba11]

You sure about that? MJ was born February 1963.

He returned to the Bulls in March 1995 making him 32, and in that season he shot 41%. :D

Next time do your proper research instead of relying on basketballreference for age.


In the 95' Playoffs, Jordan averaged 32/6/5 on 48%, while Pippen caused loss with 17.8/8.6/5.8 on 44%

[Bronbron23]

You sure about that? MJ was born February 1963.

He returned to the Bulls in March 1995 making him 32, and in that season he shot 41%. :D

Next time do your proper research instead of relying on basketballreference for age.

My bad i assumed you were talking about the following year because only an idiot would count the 20 games or so he played coming back from playing a completely different sport for almost 2 years. Apparently your an idiot though so now it all makes more sense

[1987_Lakers]

My bad i assumed you were talking about the following year because only an idiot would count the 20 games or so he played coming back from playing a completely different sport for almost 2 years. Apparently your an idiot though so now it all makes more sense

How is that any more idiotic than counting 4 games for Harden? :oldlol:

[Bronbron23]

How is that any more idiotic than counting 4 games for Harden? :oldlol:

I didn't use the 4 games. Harden is averaging around 17 points a game at the moment i said he'll probably averag 23-24 at best and he'd be bad efficient wise and not be good defensively. I'm not basing this off the 4 games so much as i'm basing it off of the rule changes, his age, the team he's on and the fact that he's coming off of qn injury. Do u actually think harden is gonna score 25 plus points alon great efficiency this year? Do you think he'll win any of the things mj did at the same age? I mean maybe nets get it together and kyrie comes back and nets win it all so he could win a chip i guess but no way in hell he gets fmvp over kd.

[Bronbron23]

How is that any more idiotic than counting 4 games for Harden? :oldlol:

Oh and you mean 5 games. Another shit performance Tonight:oldlol:

[1987_Lakers]

Oh and you mean 5 games. Another shit performance Tonight:oldlol:

MJ had 20 of them. :oldlol:

[HBK_Kliq_2]

OP thinks every player is better then MJ.

When Celtics are not busy being Montrezl Harrell's bitch, go watch some Jordan tape. hahahahahaa

[Bronbron23]

MJ had 20 of them. :oldlol:

Yup he also has 10 scoring titles, 9 first team defense, 5 mvp's, 1 dpoy, 6 fmvp's and 6 rings. How many of those does harden have?

Word of advice buddy if your gonna troll at least do it with someone who's in mj's stratosphere like bron magic, Russell or kareem or something. You look dumb trying to compare frauden to the arguable goat

[Round Mound]

:facepalm

[1987_Lakers]

Yup he also has 10 scoring titles, 9 first team defense, 5 mvp's, 1 dpoy, 6 fmvp's and 6 rings. How many of those does harden have?

Word of advice buddy if your gonna troll at least do it with someone who's in mj's stratosphere like bron magic, Russell or kareem or something. You look dumb trying to compare frauden to the arguable goat

The fact that you actually responded to me on this subject multiple times just shows how insecure you MJ stans are, I just made a little snotty remark and TheMan, 3ball, & you all got triggered. :oldlol:

[Bawkish]

The fact that you actually responded to me on this subject multiple times just shows how insecure you MJ stans are, I just made a little snotty remark and TheMan, 3ball, & you all got triggered. :oldlol:

what a lame copout

[hateraid]

Nobody saying Harden is better than Jordan. Jesus Jordan crybabies with their panties in a bunch. It's not far fetched to say Harden is a better offensive player. Anyone of Harden, Kobe, Durant, McGrady...have more in the toolbox. I wouldn't say any of them are better player than Jordan.
Pure Dominance I would say Shaq is the greatest offensive player of all time if we go by the premise of putting the ball in the basket.

[Bawkish]

Nobody saying Harden is better than Jordan. Jesus Jordan crybabies with their panties in a bunch. It's not far fetched to say Harden is a better offensive player. Anyone of Harden, Kobe, Durant, McGrady...have more in the toolbox. I wouldn't say any of them are better player than Jordan.
Pure Dominance I would say Shaq is the greatest offensive player of all time if we go by the premise of putting the ball in the basket.

im confused

your saying Harden is arguably a better offensive player than MJ, when MJ is mostly known for his overall greatness by his GOAT offensive skills & capabilitiies but Harden is not better overall?

[hateraid]

im confused

your saying Harden is arguably a better offensive player than MJ, when MJ is mostly known for his overall greatness by his GOAT offensive skills & capabilitiies but Harden is not better overall?

What is so confusing about that? It's pretty straight forward

The only problem is you Jordaneers put Jordan in this unreachable category in ALL categories that you have no ability to be objective and lack understanding.

[Baller789]

What is so confusing about that? It's pretty straight forward

The only problem is you Jordaneers put Jordan in this unreachable category in ALL categories that you have no ability to be objective and lack understanding.

I would like to see the numbers adjusted for pace. That would be more objective.

[hateraid]

I would like to see the numbers adjusted for pace. That would be more objective.

They could also be adjusted for era. It's all subjective to how people wanna see it as. Being objective to what OP was asking you can say Harden is a better offensive player due to eye test and how much many ways he can score. And as I stated in my first post if we went strictly putting the ball n the basket then Shaq would be the greatest ever

[Baller789]

They could also be adjusted for era. It's all subjective to how people wanna see it as. Being objective to what OP was asking you can say Harden is a better offensive player due to eye test and how much many ways he can score. And as I stated in my first post if we went strictly putting the ball n the basket then Shaq would be the greatest ever

That's why comparing Harden to Jordan purely by ppg is disingenuous without adjusting for pace. Which the OP didn't do.

And being objective by the eye test in itself plain misleading because judging by the eyetest is more subjective than objective biases aside.

[Bawkish]

They could also be adjusted for era. It's all subjective to how people wanna see it as. Being objective to what OP was asking you can say Harden is a better offensive player due to eye test and how much many ways he can score. And as I stated in my first post if we went strictly putting the ball n the basket then Shaq would be the greatest ever

Harden benefited in a perimeter friendly era, where everybody shoot 3s and having the luxury to drive in open lane. MJ prosper in big man's era, where there's no spacing and the paint is dominated by rim protectors.

[hateraid]

That's why comparing Harden to Jordan purely by ppg is disingenuous without adjusting for pace. Which the OP didn't do.

And being objective by the eye test in itself plain misleading because judging by the eyetest is more subjective than objective biases aside.

It's less bias if you strip the names and achievements away. A guy who has elusive handles that can create vast space all the way to an extended area and drain it is right there elite offense. Again not taking away from Jordan but he isn't as complete. He is dominant at putting the ball in the hole, by then if we went by that premise you have to go with Shaq.

[Baller789]

It's less bias if you strip the names and achievements away. A guy who has elusive handles that can create vast space all the way to an extended area and drain it is right there elite offense. Again not taking away from Jordan but he isn't as complete. He is dominant at putting the ball in the hole, by then if we went by that premise you have to go with Shaq.
The thread title says better offensive player. Nowhere does it say more complete. You are moving the goalposts brotha.

[hateraid]

The thread title says better offensive player. Nowhere does it say more complete. You are moving the goalposts brotha.

Did I not say Shaq is the greatest offensive player? He's by far the most complete.

[Baller789]

Did I not say Shaq is the greatest offensive player? He's by far the most complete.

No you didn't. You just used Shaq as a premise and was not your actual argument.

Again if we were to compare the two, the numbers should be adjusted for pace. That's as close as we can do when comparing players from different eras.

[Bronbron23]

The fact that you actually responded to me on this subject multiple times just shows how insecure you MJ stans are, I just made a little snotty remark and TheMan, 3ball, & you all got triggered. :oldlol:

Bruh u commented to me just as much i did to u and there's absolutely nothing to be triggered by. Harden is as much of a threat to mj as a mouse is to a lion. If anything i'm just shocked that there's people out there who are this delusional

[Bronbron23]

Nobody saying Harden is better than Jordan. Jesus Jordan crybabies with their panties in a bunch. It's not far fetched to say Harden is a better offensive player. Anyone of Harden, Kobe, Durant, McGrady...have more in the toolbox. I wouldn't say any of them are better player than Jordan.
Pure Dominance I would say Shaq is the greatest offensive player of all time if we go by the premise of putting the ball in the basket.

Nah mayne it's extremely far fetched to say harden is a better offensive player.

[hateraid]

Nah mayne it's extremely far fetched to say harden is a better offensive player.

Not at all. Poor argument there.

[hateraid]

Bruh u commented to me just as much i did to u and there's absolutely nothing to be triggered by. Harden is as much of a threat to mj as a mouse is to a lion. If anything i'm just shocked that there's people out there who are this delusional

Your post is out of context and bias. So it's not out of line to say you're triggered.

[1987_Lakers]

Bruh u commented to me just as much i did to u and there's absolutely nothing to be triggered by. Harden is as much of a threat to mj as a mouse is to a lion. If anything i'm just shocked that there's people out there who are this delusional

Your constant posting defending on MJ on this matter says otherwise.

[hateraid]

Your constant posting defending on MJ on this matter says otherwise.

Exactly. Saying statements like that is a clear sign of insecurity seeing how exaggerated that statement is. Especially when the topic is strictly about offense. Jordaneers make it about the player.

[Bronbron23]

Your constant posting defending on MJ on this matter says otherwise.

Right so people like u say dumb shit and when someone checks u on it means they're insecure. It's a forum dude why did u post the shit if you don't want people responding?