Can Lebron match Magic's 87 season?

[StrongLurk]

Magic: 24/6/12/1.7/.5 with 3.8 TOV on 52/20/85 in 36.3 mpg
Lebron: 25/8/11/1.2/.6 with 3.0 TOV on 49/34/72 in 34.8 mpg

Magic won MVP and FMVP, and 87 can be considered Magic's peak season.

Magic was 27 that season, Lebron will be 35 this season.

[Manny98]

Imagine Magic with elite defense + scoring ability.

That's current LeBron, the GOAT :applause:

[LAmbruh]

Imagine Magic with elite defense + scoring ability.

That's current LeBron, the GOAT :applause:
:applause:

[SpaceJam2]

Imagine Magic with elite defense + scoring ability.

That's current LeBron, the GOAT :applause:

:eek:


LeGoat

[StrongLurk]

Imagine Magic with elite defense + scoring ability.

That's current LeBron, the GOAT :applause:

We will see if Lebron can keep this up. I expect him to definitely slow down if the Lakers keep winning games. Lebron's defense has been impressive given how bad he was the last two years.

Lebron and AD need to be healthy, that is most important.

[bizil]

I've ALWAYS SAID that in Bron's backend prime years that he could EVENTUALLY run the PG more often. With AD joining the Lakers and the team they build around them, it's a great fit. Magic dominated the game with his size, positional versatility, scoring, epic passing, triple double ability, and IQ. Magic NEVER was a standout on an athletic level.


In the case of Bron's he's STILL an elite athlete. Even though he's lost some of his freak athletic ability. Due to the fact he's a physical freak WITH the ability to be the best floor general in the world, he can redefine longevity being a great player. It would have been like giving Magic and Bird the PHYSICAL TOOLS and DURABILITY that Bron has. Those three were basically THE BRIDGE between the perimeter and big man positions. It's just that Bron has the gifts to REALLY push the boundaries!

We know dominating a game scoring can be taxing year after year. So Bron can tailor his game in so many ways to MAXIMIZE the rest of his prime years. The flexibility to play PG, SG, SF, and PF while ALSO being an epic floor general who can dominate scoring when its time gives him an advantage ONLY Magic had in the past.

If Magic didn't have gaps in his career due to the controversy of his health, he would possibly have been NECK and NECK with MJ for the GOAT crown. MJ was the better player in general. BUT Magic's career resume could have been SO EPIC that it could have given him a great shot at the GOAT crown. We see he's on the Mt. Rushmore as it already!

[Uncle Drew]

Imagine Magic with elite defense + scoring ability.

That's current LeBron, the GOAT :applause:
Jep, and, unlike Magic, LeBron does not have a Hall of Fame center on his team.

[bizil]

I see some posters underrate Magic's scoring ability. Magic FLAT OUT was a great scorer! He was just a pass first PG (even more pass first than Bron) who usually played with other very good to great scorers virtually his whole career. Magic was HELLA EFFICIENT and epic from the FT line. And when it was TIME to dominate scoring, he did just that. Of course I would give Bron the edge scoring wise.

BUT among pass first players, Magic was one of the top 5 scorers EVER! Only Bron and Big O FOR SURE were better scorers from a pass first mindset. After that, U got Magic and Zeke. Remember when Kareem was past his prime and on his way out of the league, Pat Riley ASKED MAGIC to be the #1 scoring option on the team. And look for his shot more. He didn't ask Worthy to do that. IF that was a Nique, King, English, etc. on the Lakers the nod would have went to them.

[superduper]

I see some posters underrate Magic's scoring ability. Magic FLAT OUT was a great scorer! He was just a pass first PG (even more pass first than Bron) who usually played with other very good to great scorers virtually his whole career. Magic was HELLA EFFICIENT and epic from the FT line. And when it was TIME to dominate scoring, he did just that. Of course I would give Bron the edge scoring wise.

BUT among pass first players, Magic was one of the top 5 scorers EVER! Only Bron and Big O FOR SURE were better scorers from a pass first mindset. After that, U got Magic and Zeke. Remember when Kareem was past his prime and on his way out of the league, Pat Riley ASKED MAGIC to be the #1 scoring option on the team. And look for his shot more. He didn't ask Worthy to do that. IF that was a Nique, King, English, etc. on the Lakers the nod would have went to them.

The mentalities back then were also a lot different. PGs weren't thinking "I'm going to get 30ppg". They were THE set playmakers. Roles were very defined. Very different to how it is now.

[ImKobe]

Magic was a better passer and an elite FT shooter, there's no comparing the two. He actually got better with age and was nearly a 50/40/90 player in 1990. 1987 wasn't "peak" Magic either, 1989 version was much better but he got injured in the Finals. Imagine thinking Bron could ever shoot close to 90% from the FT line for a season :lol

[bigkingsfan]

Magic was a better passer and an elite FT shooter, there's no comparing the two. He actually got better with age and was nearly a 50/40/90 player in 1990. 1987 wasn't "peak" Magic either, 1989 version was much better but he got injured in the Finals. Imagine thinking Bron could ever shoot close to 90% from the FT line for a season :lol
When 48% 38% 89% is nearly... :roll:

[brooks_thompson]

When 48% 38% 89% is nearly... :roll:

What the hell? He said nearly in the goddamn post and its goddamn nearly

[ImKobe]

When 48% 38% 89% is nearly... :roll:

That's closer than Bran will ever be to a 50/40/90 season, heck, I'll change my name to ImLebron if he shoots 80.. :lol

[3ball]

I've ALWAYS SAID that in Bron's backend prime years that he could EVENTUALLY run the PG more often. With AD joining the Lakers and the team they build around them, it's a great fit. Magic dominated the game with his size, positional versatility, scoring, epic passing, triple double ability, and IQ. Magic NEVER was a standout on an athletic level.


In the case of Bron's he's STILL an elite athlete. Even though he's lost some of his freak athletic ability. Due to the fact he's a physical freak WITH the ability to be the best floor general in the world, he can redefine longevity being a great player. It would have been like giving Magic and Bird the PHYSICAL TOOLS and DURABILITY that Bron has. Those three were basically THE BRIDGE between the perimeter and big man positions. It's just that Bron has the gifts to REALLY push the boundaries!

We know dominating a game scoring can be taxing year after year. So Bron can tailor his game in so many ways to MAXIMIZE the rest of his prime years. The flexibility to play PG, SG, SF, and PF while ALSO being an epic floor general who can dominate scoring when its time gives him an advantage ONLY Magic had in the past.

If Magic didn't have gaps in his career due to the controversy of his health, he would possibly have been NECK and NECK with MJ for the GOAT crown. MJ was the better player in general. BUT Magic's career resume could have been SO EPIC that it could have given him a great shot at the GOAT crown. We see he's on the Mt. Rushmore as it already!
Lebron can't play SG - that's a falsehood

I mean, he's physically capable of going out there and starting at SG, but anyone can start at any position - can they actually PLAY the position is another question - and Lebron can't play SG because he can't play off-ball.. period

[bigkingsfan]

That's closer than Bran will ever be to a 50/40/90 season, heck, I'll change my name to ImLebron if he shoots 80.. :lol
Who cares, be like saying if Magic could average 25 a game.

[ImKobe]

Who cares, be like saying if Magic could average 25 a game.

Thing is that Magic could have averaged 25+ if he took a few more shots per game, Lebron has been a mediocre FT shooter all his career.

[bigkingsfan]

Thing is that Magic could have averaged 25+ if he took a few more shots per game, Lebron has been a mediocre FT shooter all his career.
So what? Not like his FT's cost his team a series, like Magic did.

[warriorfan]

So what? Not like his FT's cost his team a series, like Magic did.

Yeah in 2011 he would have been lucky for it to go down to FT

[StrongLurk]

Magic was a better passer and an elite FT shooter, there's no comparing the two. He actually got better with age and was nearly a 50/40/90 player in 1990. 1987 wasn't "peak" Magic either, 1989 version was much better but he got injured in the Finals. Imagine thinking Bron could ever shoot close to 90% from the FT line for a season :lol

Why did my OP make you so upset that you needed to troll?

[bigkingsfan]

[QUOTE=warriorfan]Yeah in 2011 he would have been lucky for it to go down to FT

[superduper]

Good thing he made a FT to clinch the 2016 finals then.

Had no significance to the outcome of the game. Kyries 3 was enough to win as per the final score.

Lmao at "clinched".

[warriorfan]

Had no significance to the outcome of the game. Kyries 3 was enough to win as per the final score.

Lmao at "clinched".

The only clinching LeBron ever has done is his butthole as he got outscored by Jason Terry in the NBA Finals

[Hey Yo]

Had no significance to the outcome of the game. Kyries 3 was enough to win as per the final score.

Lmao at "clinched".
If James doesn't make it, then GS has 11 seconds left to tie the game with a 3 pointer.

LOL @ how dumb you are.

[Hey Yo]

Thing is that Magic could have averaged 25+ if he took a few more shots per game, Lebron has been a mediocre FT shooter all his career.
Thing is, LeBron would decimate the so-called defenses that Magic faced throughout his years in the West.

LA's division was the laughing stock of the league.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Lebron is a poor man

[Kblaze8855]

Who cares, be like saying if Magic could average 25 a game.

Magic passed up enough layups that would put him at 25 a game....he just wanted to get people going.

Magic could have scored 25 comfortably. Magic wasn

[FKAri]

Magic passed up enough layups that would put him at 25 a game....he just wanted to get people going.

Magic could have scored 25 comfortably. Magic wasn’t a good transition scorer....he was elite. And he was near unstoppable one on one in the no 5 second backdown days.

Magic chose not to score so others could stay involved. He was legit one of the better scorers in the league. He just deferred to Kareem most of his career and spent most of the rest giving others easy baskets instead of scoring himself.
He got people going on and off the court. A true playmaker :applause:

[bizil]

Magic passed up enough layups that would put him at 25 a game....he just wanted to get people going.

Magic could have scored 25 comfortably. Magic wasn’t a good transition scorer....he was elite. And he was near unstoppable one on one in the no 5 second backdown days.

Magic chose not to score so others could stay involved. He was legit one of the better scorers in the league. He just deferred to Kareem most of his career and spent most of the rest giving others easy baskets instead of scoring himself.

I agree! Some posters don't understand the MENTALITY of pass first PG's who can ALSO dominate scoring! They look at the scoring numbers and see Magic averaged 18-24 PPG throughout his career. But they don't REALIZE how many looks he passed up for himself to drop off dimes. And when it WAS TIME to takeover games scoring, Magic would go on rampages. He just played with so many talented scorers that IT FIT with his natural pass first instinct. Magic was BORN to be a 6'9 pass first PG. It wasn't a novelty. BECAUSE he's the greatest floor general of all time!

If u are TRULY a student of the game, u KNOW Magic and Isiah FOR DAMN SURE were alpha dog scorers. BUT they put MORE OF PREMIUM on being the best floor generals on Earth! Some guys like a Pippen score 18-22 PPG and that's LITERALLY the max of their scoring ability. Which is ok for sure. BUT others who score in that range of points are ACTUALLY alpha dog level guys. They just play on deep ass teams. Or put a premium on the floor generalship OVER scoring 30 PPG!

[superduper]

The only clinching LeBron ever has done is his butthole as he got outscored by Jason Terry in the NBA Finals

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[SpaceJam2]

That's closer than Bran will ever be to a 50/40/90 season, heck, I'll change my name to ImLebron if he shoots 80.. :lol


You're a moron..50/40/90 seasons?


Magic's 48/38/89 season is literally 0 for 3 :lol

Bron's 2013 season was 57/41/75 which is 2 for 3 :lol


Try again

[superduper]

You're a moron..50/40/90 seasons?


Magic's 48/38/89 season is literally 0 for 3 :lol

Bron's 2013 season was 57/41/75 which is 2 for 3 :lol


Try again

Total percentage points off for each: 5%

[SpaceJam2]

Total percentage points off for each: 5%

2 for 3
0 for 3

Next

[Duncan21formvp]

No because Lebron is always down at least 3-2 in a series every year including 5 years in a row with HCA.

[3ball]

We will see if Lebron can keep this up. I expect him to definitely slow down if the Lakers keep winning games. Lebron's defense has been impressive given how bad he was the last two years.

Lebron and AD need to be healthy, that is most important.


Lebron's on the juice - the drug test for Danny Green was a warning to lebron by the NBA:

"cycle off bron... everyone knows you couldn't play any defense last year, but now your decent again - don't make it so obvious that you're on that shit dude; be smart"


Btw, the age gap between 87' Magic and 20' lebron means nothing because of the 1 million dollar gap in their budget to maintain their bodies, which includes all the stuff bron is on

[BallsOut]

Jep, and, unlike Magic, LeBron does not have a Hall of Fame center on his team.

Dwight Howard, DeMarcus Cousins. Hell even AD might make it to the HOF and he played center. Fk outta here boy.

[SpaceJam]

Dwight Howard, DeMarcus Cousins. Hell even AD might make it to the HOF and he played center. Fk outta here boy.

DeMarcus Cousins in the HoF? :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Bawkish]

DeMarcus Cousins in the HoF? :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

not if he threatened to beat up the whole induction committee

[pauk]

Lebron can't play SG - that's a falsehood

I mean, he's physically capable of going out there and starting at SG, but anyone can start at any position - can they actually PLAY the position is another question - and Lebron can't play SG because he can't play off-ball.. period

lol... stop 3ball....

I guess Jordan couldnt play SG with all that ballandling/usage...

[Andrei89]

DeMarcus Cousins in the HoF? :roll: :roll:roll:


Bad season for Lebron haters.

Now they call DMC HOF material and Lebron has not even played with him yet lmaooooooooooooooooooo:banana: :banana:

[Gileraracer]

Imagine Magic with no defense

fixed

[StrongLurk]

Well, can he?

Magic's Lakers in 87 were more stacked than the current Lakers are.

Also Lebron is old AF and AD's body seems to always have some injury.

[hiphopanonymous]

Lebron can't play SG - that's a falsehood

I mean, he's physically capable of going out there and starting at SG, but anyone can start at any position - can they actually PLAY the position is another question - and Lebron can't play SG because he can't play off-ball.. period
People will try to refute this but it's true.

LeBron's weakness has always been his ability to make things happen on quick possessions that he slashed around off ball. I've almost never seen him work off the ball he typically stands still at the top of the perimeter when he doesn't have the ball. Or he may try to post up after he added that to his repertoire. But even his posts ups are mostly initiated by his own dribbling not an entry pass. He just doesn't fit systems where he'd be expected to cut off the ball and being expected to catch it and quickly do something with it which is the whole purpose of the SG position. Quick slash attacks either towards the middle or towards the perimeter to shoot.

[RRR3]

People who say LeBron can’t play off ball are basically saying they never watched him play in Miami.

[StrongLurk]

People will try to refute this but it's true.

LeBron's weakness has always been his ability to make things happen on quick possessions that he slashed around off ball. I've almost never seen him work off the ball he typically stands still at the top of the perimeter when he doesn't have the ball. Or he may try to post up after he added that to his repertoire. But even his posts ups are mostly initiated by his own dribbling not an entry pass. He just doesn't fit systems where he'd be expected to cut off the ball and being expected to catch it and quickly do something with it which is the whole purpose of the SG position. Quick slash attacks either towards the middle or towards the perimeter to shoot.

Lebron will never be MJ in that capacity.

However, Lebron early in his career (really before 07ish) definitely moved around a lot more off-ball for catch and shoot or instant slash to the basket. He was a lot quicker/leaner then and was a lot more "unpredictable" with his movements compared to now where he is very strength-based. If you don't believe me, go look up a lot of Lebron's highlights from the 05/06 season.

Lebron also played a lot of off-ball in the 12-13/13-14 seasons in Miami and was actually one of the best catch and shoot players for 3-pointers and one of the best cutters/rollers as well.

Even this year...Lebron has the best catch and shooter for open threes on the Lakers this season at like 46% and is in the top-10 in the league I believe.

I've always said that while Lebron doesn't have to be an off-ball guru...he should have for sure cut down more on off the dribble 3-point shots and focused more on catch and shoot threes where his balance/form is better.

[hiphopanonymous]

People who say LeBron can’t play off ball are basically saying they never watched him play in Miami.
His and Wade's on and off ball dynamic together was more like a just let Wade take a turn then switch it back to let LeBron take a turn at ball handling. Wade was the better off-ball player between the two of them. Look at LeBron's 61 point game for reference. He makes one backdoor cut, and one "catch and shoot" on the perimeter which he actually still put the ball down to dribble, and one great off-ball slash the entire game:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qmd_vOWQWx4

The rest of his plays (the overwhelming majority of baskets) were what he always does (albeit does great) - which is methodical, slow on the dribble decisions before the move is made (I'm not saying he's slow because once he moves he's quick, it's the decision that was slow). He's good at it. But it is totally opposite what a traditional shooting guard does. And the devils advocate to this playstyle is, that it takes up a ton of shot clock and can make teammates stagnate which has happened on a lot of LeBron teams over the years.

[VeeCee15]

NEWS FLASH
stats wise...Luka is beating bron right now and he's 20.But why all the bron hype?

[RRR3]

His and Wade's on and off ball dynamic together was more like a just let Wade take a turn then switch it back to let LeBron take a turn at ball handling. Wade was the better off-ball player between the two of them. Look at LeBron's 61 point game for reference. He makes one backdoor cut, and one "catch and shoot" on the perimeter which he actually still put the ball down to dribble, and one great off-ball slash the entire game:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qmd_vOWQWx4

The rest of his plays (the overwhelming majority of baskets) were what he always does (albeit does great) - which is methodical, slow on the dribble decisions before the move is made (I'm not saying he's slow because once he moves he's quick, it's the decision that was slow). He's good at it. But it is totally opposite what a traditional shooting guard does. And the devils advocate to this playstyle is, that it takes up a ton of shot clock and can make teammates stagnate which has happened on a lot of LeBron teams over the years.
Did you really just use the best scoring game of LeBron

[hiphopanonymous]

Did you really just use the best scoring game of LeBron’s entire career as “proof” of your point? He was absolutely on fire, of course he’s gonna get to do what he wants a lot.

I watched LeBron in Miami a lot, especially 2012 where I watched almost every game. He was and remains a great cutter (doesn’t do it much now but he’s still great at it) and he spotted up a decent amount in Miami as well. Them’s the facts.
It's easier to show 1 game with triple the possessions than post 3 games for you and expect you to watch them.

That's how he played in Miami - he still did most of his work on ball even in Miami, he did a few (very few) off ball cuts - by no means was it ever his bread and butter. Nothing wrong with me sharing the 61 point game to make this point.

[lakerstekkenn]

James won't slow down because his teammates will get better and the Lakers Defense will get better and their offense will get better and they will start destroying teams and then the stats will go down because he's on the bench in the 4th against lesser teams. :cheers: :banana: :rockon: and that's great because he will need the rest because of his age.

[lakerstekkenn]

I would like to see what Magic and the Lakers would've done in today's NBA against these same teams destruction every night by 20.

Magic wouldn't be stopped and the Lakers would run everyone into the ground.

[lakerstekkenn]

Thing is that Magic could have averaged 25+ if he took a few more shots per game, Lebron has been a mediocre FT shooter all his career.


Magic wasn't a very good shooter himself.

[SpaceJam2]

25-11-10 40% 3p


LeHung

[StrongLurk]

Magic: 24/6/12/1.7/.5 with 3.8 TOV on 52/20/85 in 36.3 mpg
Lebron: 25/8/11/1.2/.6 with 3.0 TOV on 49/34/72 in 34.8 mpg

Magic won MVP and FMVP, and 87 can be considered Magic's peak season.

Magic was 27 that season, Lebron will be 35 this season.

Lebron now at 26/7/11 on 50/35/67

[Bronbron23]

Magic: 24/6/12/1.7/.5 with 3.8 TOV on 52/20/85 in 36.3 mpg
Lebron: 25/8/11/1.2/.6 with 3.0 TOV on 49/34/72 in 34.8 mpg

Magic won MVP and FMVP, and 87 can be considered Magic's peak season.

Magic was 27 that season, Lebron will be 35 this season.
No magic won that year and Lakers arnt beating the clippers this year.

[ImKobe]

Lebron now at 26/7/11 on 50/35/67

Turnovers went up from 3 to 4 as his assist numbers are slowly going down. Lebron's averaging 10.1 assists to 4.9 turnovers per game over his last 15 games while shooting 62.7% from the FT line.

[72-10]

I take it the combination of Magic's court vision and motor were pretty much peaking with the 87 Lakers, but the team might have been better than Magic was. He was probably making so many fast break assists and whipped passes amidst a transition offense that was peaking in chemistry at this point that it just overwhelmed the defense.

[StrongLurk]

Bump

[Whoah10115]

The point made about LeBron playing off with Wade is spot on. It's actually very similar to what people say about Pippen playing in an open court style. LeBron is definitely a better scorer than Pippen, but Pip would have done better (not than LeBron but then his recorded output) in an up-tempo offense.

Miami played a lot of high-tempo offense and Wade and James were great in taking turns and playing off each other in the open court.

Comparing Jordan when there are so many theads and posts about his off-ball game, and disregarding that LeBron doesn't play off the ball..

Stop.

[red1]

lebron "king" james


leading the league in assists in his 17th season - still the most athletic in the league :roll:

[Hey Yo]

Magic: 24/6/12/1.7/.5 with 3.8 TOV on 52/20/85 in 36.3 mpg
Lebron: 25/8/11/1.2/.6 with 3.0 TOV on 49/34/72 in 34.8 mpg

Magic won MVP and FMVP, and 87 can be considered Magic's peak season.

Magic was 27 that season, Lebron will be 35 this season.

The 3 teams the Lakers played to get to the Finals that postseason had a combined record of 118-128. No chance LeBron and the Lakers get that lucky anytime soon.

[StrongLurk]

Can LeGOAT do it? 17th season man...

[SouBeachTalents]

Nah, Magic was MVP, led the Lakers to 65 wins, knocked off the Bird Celtics in the Finals, hit the iconic baby hook GW. LeBron's been amazing, but Magic's season was just on another level, and there's still a 50% chance LeBron doesn't even win FMVP like Magic did

[StrongLurk]

Nah, Magic was MVP, led the Lakers to 65 wins, knocked off the Bird Celtics in the Finals, hit the iconic baby hook GW. LeBron's been amazing, but Magic's season was just on another level, and there's still a 50% chance LeBron doesn't even win FMVP like Magic did

...Lebron could potentially literally beat the Celtics in the finals this year while leading the league in assists.

This is 35 year old (3 months from 36) Lebron vs PEAK MAGIC.

They have had very similar seasons.

[SouBeachTalents]

...Lebron could potentially literally beat the Celtics in the finals this year while leading the league in assists.

This is 35 year old (3 months from 36) Lebron vs PEAK MAGIC.

They have had very similar seasons.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say this years Celtics team isn't quite on the level of the one Magic beat in the Finals :lol

But I agree with you, the fact LeBron's made this an argument at his age and mileage is unbelievable. But I'm gonna find it difficult to say it was better than Magic's if he walks away without an MVP, FMVP & less wins than Magic had in '87. The biggest knock on Magic was how atrocious his playoff competition was until the Finals, it made LeBron's runs through the East look like a blood bath

[StrongLurk]

He really did it...at age 36

[StrongLurk]

Magic: 24/6/12/1.7/.5 with 3.8 TOV on 52/20/85 in 36.3 mpg
Lebron: 25/8/11/1.2/.6 with 3.0 TOV on 49/34/72 in 34.8 mpg

Magic won MVP and FMVP, and 87 can be considered Magic's peak season.

Magic was 27 that season, Lebron will be 35 this season.

Welp, pretty much called this spot on. Lebron SHOULD'VE won MVP...but he did lead the league in assists, and win FMVP/Ring.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Well Lebron used to be a poor man's Magic, with this title he may be on par with Magic now.

[StrongLurk]

Well Lebron used to be a poor man's Magic, with this title he may be on par with Magic now.

Lebron at 36 matched one of Magic's PEAK seasons lol...he surpassed Magic before this year anyways.

[ImKobe]

Well Lebron used to be a poor man's Magic, with this title he may be on par with Magic now.

The crazy stat from Game 6 was that Magic still had more Playoff triple-doubles than Lebron despite playing 70 less games.

[StrongLurk]

The crazy stat from Game 6 was that Magic still had more Playoff triple-doubles than Lebron despite playing 70 less games.

There is a reason Magic is a top 10 player of all time...dude was a grandmaster out there.