LeBron could have been a 5x NBA champion.

[Lebron23]

If KD didn't join a 73 wins team. He put up amazing numbers in the playoffs and finals, but the Warriors just had the better team. Those were video games numbers.

[superduper]

Bran would've been a 0x NBA champion if he didn't run away to multiple superteams in his prime.

[red1]

I don't know about 5-time he definitely should have 4 though. caught a tough break in 2015. I'm pretty sure he would've beat the warriors if kyrie didn't go down in game 1.

[elementally morale]

If KD didn't join a 73 wins team. He put up amazing numbers in the playoffs and finals, but the Warriors just had the better team. Those were video games numbers.


Karl Malone and John Stockton could've been 4 time champions if there were no Bulls, Lakers and Spurs. Barkley could've been a 2 time champ.. and if he teams up with another star in his prime, probably more. Duncan could be a 7-8 time champion had Kobe and Shaq not been there.

So... yes, this is what competition looks like. LeBron went great great lengths to diminish his competition... but he was one-upped by Durant those two years. You certainly are aware he chose to play with Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh... in their primes... still lost to the Mavs... why do you not count that loss?

[red1]

Karl Malone and John Stockton could've been 4 time champions if there were no Bulls, Lakers and Spurs. Barkley could've been a 2 time champ.. and if he teams up with another star in his prime, probably more. Duncan could be a 7-8 time champion had Kobe and Shaq not been there.

So... yes, this is what competition looks like. LeBron went great great lengths to diminish his competition... but he was one-upped by Durant those two years. You certainly are aware he chose to play with Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh... in their primes... still lost to the Mavs... why do you not count that loss?
he choked his ass off in 2011 but I think he needed that to develop.


2015 was just bad luck. losing your second and third option and other injuries leading to a 6 man rotation against a deep team. still went 6 games and was a decent series.

[elementally morale]

he choked his ass off in 2011 but I think he needed that to develop.


2015 was just bad luck. losing your second and third option and other injuries leading to a 6 man rotation against a deep team. still went 6 games and was a decent series.

I agree with you. But the thing is... it happened to many many people. It's not a LeBron-thing. How many examples do you want? I think you can come up with like a dozen in 3 minutes yourself.

There is a great great Hungarian swimmer by the name of Laszlo Cseh. He won no Olympic gold. None. Has many second places... you know why? Michael Phelps. I'm not sure if you are familiar with the name: Tamas Darnyi. He was also a great Hungarian swimmer with 4 Olympic golds. Was unbeaten for over a decade. Many American swimmers didn't win shit because of Darnyi.

Competition.

[hiphopanonymous]

Bran would've been a 0x NBA champion if he didn't run away to multiple superteams in his prime.
This may be true

[red1]

I agree with you. But the thing is... it happened to many many people. It's not a LeBron-thing. How many examples do you want? I think you can come up with like a dozen in 3 minutes yourself.

There is a great great Hungarian swimmer by the name of Laszlo Cseh. He won no Olympic gold. None. Has many second places... you know why? Michael Phelps. I'm not sure if you are familiar with the name: Tamas Darnyi. He was also a great Hungarian swimmer with 4 Olympic golds. Was unbeaten for over a decade. Many American swimmers didn't win shit because of Darnyi.

Competition.
can't win em all. part of the game.



that's why we have to acknowledge that some players and teams got ridiculously lucky. unlike the raptors who earned it taking the hardest road.

[elementally morale]

can't win em all. part of the game.

It's a great thing one can't win them all. The obvious reason is this: it's good because others keep playing... if it were sure they can't win... etc. But one not being able to win them all is good.. for that exact one and his supporters, too. It just gives you more joy.

I was GLAD Kobe and the Lakers being bad for a few years in the mid 2000s. And I was a huge fan of the team and Bryant. But him and them coming back and winning two more felt a lot more satisfying after the down years. Kobe played absolutely poorly his last 1-2 years... so him putting up 60 in his last game was lot greater to watch.

LeBron missing the playoffs may be a good thing for his fanbase if he comes back and wins a ring this year. And is he happens to else this year but wins next year... it will be even better.

[bullettooth]

Bran would've been a 0x NBA champion if he didn't run away to multiple superteams in his prime.

I love first reply slays.

[SouBeachTalents]

LeBron was unlucky not to win in years like '09, '17 & '18, where he played more than well enough to win, just either didn't have a good enough team/ran into a superior opponent. Ditto 2015 when I really do think they win if Kyrie doesn't get hurt.

On the flip side though, the Heat lose that Game 6 in 2013 99 times out of 100, and I don't think their odds are that much greater to pull off the 3-1 comeback against the Warriors. Plus, he really has been gifted free trips to the Finals almost every year, and he basically did everything in his power to give away what would've been the easiest ring of his career in 2011.

All in all, LeBron's honestly right around the ring count you'd expect given his circumstances, 3-4

[RRR3]

LeBron was unlucky not to win in years like '09, '17 & '18, where he played more than well enough to win, just either didn't have a good enough team/ran into a superior opponent. Ditto 2015 when I really do think they win if Kyrie doesn't get hurt.

On the flip side though, the Heat lose that Game 6 in 2013 99 times out of 100, and I don't think their odds are that much greater to pull off the 3-1 comeback against the Warriors. Plus, he really has been gifted free trips to the Finals almost every year, and he basically did everything in his power to give away what would've been the easiest ring of his career in 2011.

All in all, LeBron's honestly right around the ring count you'd expect given his circumstances, 3-4
Damn an objective take on ISH :eek:

[LostCause]

LeBrons an interesting case to feel bad for here because he himself actively pursued to beat his opponents by "overwhelming" talent at least twice

[ImKobe]

No he couldn't, the 2017 and 2018 series weren't even close. He's not beating the Warriors in a re-match in 2017 with everyone healthy and he's not beating them without Irving in 2018.

[Micku]

I don't know how many rings would LeBron have if he didn't join the Miami Heat in 2010-2011 with Wade and Bosh.

It goes both ways and that's competition.

LeBron did choke in 2011 and 2015 was bad luck. But he could easily be just 1/9 too. There are a lot of what ifs. What if Ray Allen didn't hit that shot in 2013? What if in 2016, Steph was healthy and Green didn't get suspended?

And the same goes the other way around. What if Lebron didn't choke in 2011? What if his team was healthy in 2015? What if KD didn't go to the GSW?

I would say he could've had 4 if his team was healthy in 2015. But to say if KD didn't join a 73 win team, you could also say that if LeBron didn't join top 3-5 level talent with D-Wade and Bosh with the Heat. He tried to do something similar again with the Cavs. He's the one that really started this thing, but KD one up him. And LBJ was trying to recruit Kawhi on the team again for another big 3 with the Lakers. Kawhi just said no. Not that I blame LBJ, but y'know.


What LeBron has been doing makes me wonder what type of awesome superteams you could do back in the day. Imagine if MJ, Pippen and Hakeem were to play together?

[Ghost1]

could have been a 5 time nba champ but instead became a 6 time loser

LeHumble :bowdown: :bowdown: :applause:

[AussieSteve]

Under normal circumstances, lebron 4-peats at the Cavs.

Love & Kyrie out in 15.
Won 16
Unbeatable opponent in 17 and 18

This is known.

[coin24]

Bran would've been a 0x NBA champion if he didn't run away to multiple superteams in his prime.

Shut it down:lol :cheers:

[knicksman]

could have been a 5 time nba champ but instead became a 6 time loser

LeHumble :bowdown: :bowdown: :applause:

:oldlol:

[RealSkipBayless]

We all can't be fortunate enough to face what MJ did in the finals. :confusedshrug:

[Gileraracer]

Bran would've been a 0x NBA champion if he didn't run away to multiple superteams in his prime.

Damn :lol

[Lebron23]

LeBron averaged 35/10/9 in his last 2 playoffs runs. That's why he is the all time leading scorer in playoffs and finals history.

[Andrei89]

No he couldn't, the 2017 and 2018 series weren't even close. He's not beating the Warriors in a re-match in 2017 with everyone healthy and he's not beating them without Irving in 2018.

He does beat them in 2015 with kyrie and Love.

But I disagree with the OP. Only reason he is not a 4x NBA champion is because he choked in 2011.

[Gileraracer]

LeBron averaged 35/10/9 in his last 2 playoffs runs. That's why he is the all time leading scorer in playoffs and finals history.

2017: lost 4 - 1
2018: lost 4 - 0
2019: No superteam, no playoffs

:(

[Naero]

The "LeBron would've beat anyone else" school of thought doesn't hold water when his teams lost as badly as they did. If they competed respectably against the Warriors, I might grant them benefit of the doubt against lower-tier Finals opponents in an alternate reality, but getting (gentleman)-swept with some of the biggest margins of losses in NBA Finals history closes that door for me.

The Cavaliers were too substandard on the defensive end, which deteriorated under Lue, by 2017 to be title favorites in most years. A much more plausible-sounding upshot to me: the 2017 Spurs win it all in lieu of the Warriors (assuming no one Zazas Kawhi), and the Kyrie-less Cavaliers wouldn't even have a fighting chance against the 2018 Rockets (even with a hobbled Chris Paul) considering they only scraped through mediocre teams out East.

This revisionism will always open up one can of worms or another, because not only did LeBron need extraordinary circumstances to win in some years (2016, namely); there are many other victims of circumstances in title-contention history to contextualize. How many rings would Jordan and other all-time greats have if they landed in more conducive situations, or even contemporary greats like some of LeBron's opponents?

It's one of the many reasons it's more logical to judge players by their individualities rather than their ring counts: they can only control their individual performances, not every fortuitous circumstance needed to win it all.

[Bawkish]

LeCarried could've been outside the top 15 if not for Ray Allen & Kyrie :lol