You can draft Luka or Dirk - who do you take?

[hiphopanonymous]

Is Luka already a player you'd pick over Dirk? We KNOW Dirk eventually won a championship and that Luka hasn't proven himself beyond stats in his very young career so far, but Luka is averaging a 30 point triple double (admittedly, probably closer to 25-5-5 in prior eras but still, as a Sophomore still outstanding).

What do you guys think? Who do you pick in a hypothetical draft where both are rookies knowing what you know currently about both of them?

[DMAVS41]

You have to draft Dirk and it isn't remotely close at this point.

With Dirk you get 21 loyal years to the franchise and one of the best 20 players of all-time.

Way too much unknown with Luka at this point.

[bullettooth]

2nd year Luka vs 2nd year Dirk is the better comparison if you wanna ask who do you take.

[DMAVS41]

2nd year Luka vs 2nd year Dirk is the better comparison if you wanna ask who do you take.

You take 2nd year Luka as he's currently way better than Dirk was in year 2.

[tontoz]

Funny Dallas flashback. I am sure DMavs41 remembers this.

Don Nelson was bragging about two of his young players that would transform the franchise. He was hyping them up in the press.

Then when these guys got on the court they were, shall we say, underwhelming. Nelson took a lot of crap in the press about thinking these two guys were special.

The two players were Dirk and Nash.

[beastee]

In the current state of the NBA...you take Luka hands down. If you are talking 10-15 years ago and spacing...I take Dirk. Both are great and both will be top 20 players OAT

[Kblaze8855]

You can

[DMAVS41]

In the current state of the NBA...you take Luka hands down. If you are talking 10-15 years ago and spacing...I take Dirk. Both are great and both will be top 20 players OAT

You can't take an unproven 20 year old that hasn't played a playoff game over a guy like Dirk.

This is the kind of shit I'm talking about. It is insane.

With Dirk you get one of the most loyal athletes ever that also happened to be one of the best basketball players ever. A guy that hardly ever missed games for his entire prime...that gives you 10 straight years over 50 wins...etc.

You simply can't draft someone as unproven as Luka over that.

What if Luka gets hurt? What if Luka leaves in free agency?

You don't punt on one of the 20 best careers in NBA history locked in...

[DMAVS41]

Funny Dallas flashback. I am sure DMavs41 remembers this.

Don Nelson was bragging about two of his young players that would transform the franchise. He was hyping them up in the press.

Then when these guys got on the court they were, shall we say, underwhelming. Nelson took a lot of crap in the press about thinking these two guys were special.

The two players were Dirk and Nash.

Dirk almost quit to go home in his rookie year it was so tough on him.

[beastee]

What if Luka gets hurt? What if Luka leaves in free agency?

In this scenario...Dirk could get hurt, Dirk could leave in free agency. It's a hypothetical question...yet you WANT the answer to be Dirk. Prepare to be upset...the eye test is currently a tossup with what Luka is doing at 20.

[DMAVS41]

In this scenario...Dirk could get hurt, Dirk could leave in free agency. It's a hypothetical question...yet you WANT the answer to be Dirk. Prepare to be upset...the eye test is currently a tossup with what Luka is doing at 20.

You are confused about the hypothetical.

The question is essentially...is Luka's current play and potential so great that you'd rather have him than one of the best 20 careers in NBA history.

You must have missed the part of "knowing what we currently know about them"...the hypothetical is that we know what Dirk becomes and how his career played out.

I don't want the answer to be Dirk.

Are you kidding me? If Luka ends up with a better career than Dirk...it is going to be amazing. Upset? I have no idea what you are talking about...I was a Mavericks fan for over a decade before I even heard the name Dirk.

If you make Dirk also an unknown...then this question is pointless. You'd take Luka and not even think twice.

Dirk didn't get as good as Luka currently is until 5 plus years in the league...and even that is debatable if Luka keeps this up.

[DMAVS41]

You can’t really draft 21 years of service. You draft players. If you are drafting a known career none of these things are questions you just read off accolades and such.

For the league Luka is in he may be more useful than Dirk....but that’s clearly hard to say.

I will say this.....

In 30 years when you ask again people will include this years Luka in comparison to tons of people he doesn’t currently compare to.

It’s like talking about 01 Kobe. In 01 he didn’t have the legacy and had never been the man on his own team....but you can reasonably compare 01 Kobe to all but a really short list of perimeter players ever.

Luka as he plays today with Dirk as he played....in the same league?

That would be a fight. People would absolutely question which of them is better. The league he’s in gives him better numbers than would be possible in 2003 but it is what it is. We will all have to decide for ourselves how serious we take today’s accomplishments.

The numbers don't really matter much in my opinion.

It is still early in the season, but if we for fun just assume the rest of the season plays out somewhat like these games...

Leading this team to the best offense in the league while winning 55 plus games puts Luka at an MVP level regardless of whether his numbers are 15% inflated or something like that compared to other eras. And historically, he would deserve to be compared to some of the best players ever because only a very small group of players could pull that off with a supporting cast like this.

So if you combine that type of team result with production...nobody could say much that would matter in terms of this era or inflated numbers.

[beastee]

You are confused about the hypothetical.

The question is essentially...is Luka's current play and potential so great that you'd rather have him than one of the best 20 careers in NBA history.

You must have missed the part of "knowing what we currently know about them"...the hypothetical is that we know what Dirk becomes and how his career played out.

I don't want the answer to be Dirk.

Are you kidding me? If Luka ends up with a better career than Dirk...it is going to be amazing. Upset? I have no idea what you are talking about...I was a Mavericks fan for over a decade before I even heard the name Dirk.

If you make Dirk also an unknown...then this question is pointless. You'd take Luka and not even think twice.

Dirk didn't get as good as Luka currently is until 5 plus years in the league...and even that is debatable if Luka keeps this up.

I reread it...it's a weird ass hypothetical. And based on potential of Luka alone I would take that over 1 championship. Luka can get 2-4 easily with Lebron going to hang them up soon and no true apparent to the throne. The playoff success is debatable. Sorry on the upset part, I thought you were the OP. Part of being a fan is having HOPE, and Luka's trajectory just seems huge.

[Euroleague]

Luka is already better than Dirk ever was. Even peak 2011 Dirk wasn't as good as current Luka.

[DMAVS41]

I reread it...it's a weird ass hypothetical. And based on potential of Luka alone I would take that over 1 championship. Luka can get 2-4 easily with Lebron going to hang them up soon and no true apparent to the throne. The playoff success is debatable. Sorry on the upset part, I thought you were the OP. Part of being a fan HOPE, and Luka's trajectory just seems huge.

I don't think it is fair to boil down a career to just one championship...

Hopefully Luka plays with more help than Dirk got...I think he will as Kristaps is already better than anyone Dirk played with post-2004 for his prime.

My simple point was that...even though Luka is playing at an insane level right now...

You'd never punt on Dirk's career locked in.

Of course Luka's trajectory is huge, but I think you and most are already devaluing previous legends. Dirk was insanely good for a long long long time.

[DMAVS41]

Luka is already better than Dirk ever was. Even peak 2011 Dirk wasn't as good as current Luka.

Incoming title for the Mavs this year or next if true.

[tontoz]

Luka is already better than Dirk ever was. Even peak 2011 Dirk wasn't as good as current Luka.


Dirk averaged 26/10 for his career in the playoffs. Luka hasn't played a playoff game yet.

This is why Dmavs is saying slow down.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Dirk by far. Him and KG are prolly the most underrated players ever historically

Dirk is arguably top 10 alltime IMO, at worst fringe. This dude carried the Mavs on his back for a decade plus with overrated ownership. Jason fcking Terry was his best teammate in his best years:roll: Luka his rookie year and now prolly already has better depth/bench play than Dirk ever had in his prime

Dirks longevity is stupid. This man at 37 led a top 5 offense and 50 win team with Chandler Parsons and Monta Ellis:roll: they were actually the best offense before the Rondo trade

They almost upset the 14 Spurs in the 1st round too and Pop talked about how he was still the toughest mismatch to guard in a series even at that stage of his career

Dirks peak, prime and career are all incredibly high. Very little chance Luka ever passes him

And Dirk always got a bad rep on defense. In his prime years the Mavs averaged out to a top 11 defense and peaked at top 5. U simply cant do that if ur starting PF is as bad as casuals say it was. Even after they lost Chandler they were just as good defensively if not better with Dirk/Haywood they missed Tysons offense/screening/rolling more than anything. He had alot of strengths and a significant advantage over Luka defensively

Luka is legit Harden tier on defense so far. Hes awful on that end and theres no guarantees he will ever even be average on that end. Dirk was 7ft, one of the best post defenders, excelled in Carlisles matchup zones, had incredibly quick hands, was a decent rim protector (74th percentile for his prime years which isnt great but above average) etc

[beastee]

You'd never punt on Dirk's career locked in.

Of course Luka's trajectory is huge, but I think you and most are already devaluing previous legends. Dirk was insanely good for a long long long time.
I agree Dirk was amazing. Top 15 player for me for sure.

For what I have seen so far...Luka is a top 10 player all time IF he keeps improving and wins in the playoffs. It's a hypothetical though...I am going with the unknown since it's fun to wait and find out.

This is NOT demeaning Dirk. Loved his career and 2011 is my favorite NBA finals since early 2000s.

[superduper]

The one that destroyed the most stacked and shameless superteam in history.

[DMAVS41]

Dirk by far. Him and KG are prolly the most underrated players ever historically

Dirk is arguably top 10 alltime IMO, at worst fringe. This dude carried the Mavs on his back for a decade plus with overrated ownership. Jason fcking Terry was his best teammate in his best years:roll: Luka his rookie year and now prolly already has better depth/bench play than Dirk ever had in his prime

Dirks longevity is stupid. This man at 37 led a top 5 offense and 50 win team with Chandler Parsons and Monta Ellis:roll: they were actually the best offense before the Rondo trade

They almost upset the 14 Spurs in the 1st round too and Pop talked about how he was still the toughest mismatch to guard in a series even at that stage of his career

Dirks peak, prime and career are all incredibly high. Very little chance Luka ever passes him

And Dirk always got a bad rep on defense. In his prime years the Mavs averaged out to a top 11 defense and peaked at top 5. U simply cant do that if ur starting PF is as bad as casuals say it was. Even after they lost Chandler they were just as good defensively if not better with Dirk/Haywood they missed Tysons offense/screening/rolling more than anything. He had alot of strengths and a significant advantage over Luka defensively

Luka is legit Harden tier on defense so far. Hes awful on that end and theres no guarantees he will ever even be average on that end. Dirk was 7ft, one of the best post defenders, excelled in Carlisles matchup zones, had incredibly quick hands, was a decent rim protector (74th percentile for his prime years which isnt great but above average) etc

I think you are being a bit too hard on Luka for his defense. I'm not going to argue he's good or anything, but awful is too strong in my opinion.

Your point about the bench plays is a really good one. I just posted about this, but might as well here because it is one of the craziest stats I've ever come across.

For Dirk's career from 01 through 14...the Mavs had exactly one year in which the team had a positive differential with Dirk off the court.

It was the 06 season. With Dirk on the floor they were +8.4 and without him they were +.2...LOL...every single other season during his prime...they were negative without him.

Overall during that time...

Mavs with Dirk on court...+7.6 points per 100
Mavs without Dirk on court...-3.5 points per 100

Solid net rating of 11.1 for Dirk.

For comparison...take Duncan during those same years...

Spurs with Duncan on court...+9.8 points per 100
Spurs without Duncan on court...+1.5 points per 100

The help disparity was huge and not enough is made of stuff like that when talking about what it really takes to carry a franchise without certain levels of help.

If this season continues this way for Luka/Mavs...

Mavs with Luka on court...+8.0 points per 100
Mavs without Luka on court...+9.1 points per 100

So I agree that we are devaluing legends like Dirk/KG/Kobe...etc...no doubt. Agree with almost everything you wrote.

I'm also skeptical that this shit continues for the Mavs, could be the fearful fan in me though...

However, what is currently going on with Luka and this team is insane...and if they finish the year somewhere around this in terms of wins/ratings/production...Luka could easily be MVP and deserve it.

[elementally morale]

Luka has potential to be the greatest ever. Dirk never had that potential. So Luka. On the other hand, Dirk was a great player for a very long time, a class act, great teammate, great competitor, loyal to the team he won a ring for. So Dirk. At this point.

[Bronbron23]

Is Luka already a player you'd pick over Dirk? We KNOW Dirk eventually won a championship and that Luka hasn't proven himself beyond stats in his very young career so far, but Luka is averaging a 30 point triple double (admittedly, probably closer to 25-5-5 in prior eras but still, as a Sophomore still outstanding).

What do you guys think? Who do you pick in a hypothetical draft where both are rookies knowing what you know currently about both of them?
That's a tough one. Do you go with the for sure chip with Dirk or gamble that Luka will win more. I think it's gonna be hard for Luka to win multiple chips because I think kawhi and the clippers will block him presently and I think Greek will stop him in the future so I guess I'll go with Dirk.

[DMAVS41]

That's a tough one. Do you go with the for sure chip with Dirk or gamble that Luka will win more. I think it's gonna be hard for Luka to win multiple chips because I think kawhi and the clippers will block him presently and I think Greek will stop him in the future so I guess I'll go with Dirk.

I don't think it is the proper way to compare players so closely on titles.

It could be the case, for example, that Luka ends up being a better player than Dirk...but never wins a title.

Porzingis could get hurt and he might have less help than Dirk got.

I don't think that is likely, but it is possible...

Comparing title numbers without taking into account the circumstances is not a solid way to compare players in my view.

[tpols]

yall are crazy...

Dirk is a 20 year vet and top 15 all time champ, Luke has like 15 games where's he's playing near MVP level in a regular season stfu lol.