When did Lebron execute a carry-job on offense to win a Finals? [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

3ball

11-25-2019, 11:09 PM

SpaceJam2

11-25-2019, 11:14 PM

2012: Wade 23 ppg.. Lebron 28 ppg
2013: Wade 20 ppg.. Lebron 25 ppg
2016: Kyrie 27 ppg.. Lebron 29 ppg

So Lebron shared the scoring duties and had an equal scoring teammate for all his rings (only 2-5 point gap)

whereas MJ had carry-jobs (10-20 more than 2nd option.. league scoring champ for all rings)

Pippen outscored the opppsong team's #2 option in 5 of 6 Finals, while being the defensive anchor each year and getting more reb, ast, stl and blk than MJ

Pippen carried MJ

NEXT

3ball

11-25-2019, 11:23 PM

Pippen outscored the opppsong team's #2 option in 5 of 6 Finals, while being the defensive anchor each year and getting more reb, ast, stl and blk than MJ

Pippen carried MJ

NEXT

Wade/Kyrie outscored the opposing team's #1 option in every Finals win, while Pippen only did that once

And Lebron's teams had equal or better defensive help/rankings due to better rim protection, more rebounders/bangers, and more athletic guards.

SpaceJam2

11-25-2019, 11:25 PM

Pippen outscored the opppsong team's #2 option in 5 of 6 Finals, while being the defensive anchor each year and getting more reb, ast, stl and blk than MJ

Pippen carried MJ

NEXT
2ez

Another day :hammertime:

Another win :dancin :djparty
https://i.postimg.cc/CK9WwBPy/23to6to23.jpg

SpaceJam2

11-25-2019, 11:27 PM

Wade/Kyrie outscored the opposing team's #1 option in every Finals win, while Pippen only did that once

And Lebron's teams had equal or better defensive help/rankings due to better rim protection, more rebounders/bangers, and more athletic guards.

Also you're a dumbshit liar

2012 Finals

Wade: 22.6 ppg
Durant: 30.6 ppg
Westbrook: 27.4 ppg

You have NO credibility

I win again

Sportal

11-25-2019, 11:34 PM

Also you're a dumbshit liar

2012 Finals

Wade: 22.6 ppg
Durant: 30.6 ppg
Westbrool: 27.4 ppg

You have NO credibility

I win again

Wow 3ball... I at least took you for an accurate hater...

It's ok to be worried about all the shit you talked before the season started, preaching about 'lets see how LeBron does in the 2 all-star per team era, like Jordan played in". It hasn't been a great start to the season for you, I get it. All this stress will impact your health my man.

SpaceJam2

11-25-2019, 11:40 PM

You make this 2ez

In 2012 Finals LBJ overcame #1 option KD (30.6) and #2 option Goatbrook (27.0) for a combined #1 & #2 option scoring load of 57.6

MJ's highest was 93 Suns (44.5)

2012 LBJ, overcame 57.6 (#1 + #2 option)
1993 MJ overcame 44.5 :lol

SouBeachTalents

11-25-2019, 11:41 PM

Also you're a dumbshit liar

2012 Finals

Wade: 22.6 ppg
Durant: 30.6 ppg
Westbrook: 27.4 ppg

You have NO credibility

I win again
He also, no surprise, rounded down LeBron's ppg too :lol

Ainosterhaspie

11-25-2019, 11:43 PM

Wow 3ball... I at least took you for an accurate hater...
That's a mistake. He notorious for saying things like in such and such series Jordan averaged 8 assists and in a comparable series LeBron averaged 8 so they're equal playmakers. Then you go check the stats and find LeBron averaged 8.7 and Jordan 7.2. Every time it's to push his agenda, but he'll claim it's an honest mistake. Then when you call him on it he'll shift to something completely unrelated.

3ball

11-25-2019, 11:43 PM

Wow 3ball... I at least took you for an accurate hater...

It's ok to be worried about all the shit you talked before the season started, preaching about 'lets see how LeBron does in the 2 all-star per team era, like Jordan played in". It hasn't been a great start to the season for you, I get it. All this stress will impact your health my man.
So what - my quick recall forgot about one of the Finals

The point remains - Pippen was never considered better or outplayed the opponent's #1 option, whereas Lebron always had a teammate that was considered better at the time (2012) or outplayed the #1 option (2013, 2016)

Dray n Klay

11-25-2019, 11:45 PM

So what - my quick recall forgot about one of the Finals

The point remains - Pippen was never considered better or outplayed the opponent's #1 option, whereas Lebron always had a teammate that was considered better at the time (2012) or outplayed the #1 option (2013, 2016)

Why was 4 rebounds and 2 assists enough for MJ in 1998?

Why wasnt 12 rebounds and 10 assists enough for LeBron in 2017?

SpaceJam2

11-25-2019, 11:45 PM

Pippen outscored the opppsong team's #2 option in 5 of 6 Finals, while being the defensive anchor each year and getting more reb, ast, stl and blk than MJ

Pippen carried MJ

NEXT

SouBeachTalents

11-25-2019, 11:46 PM

So what - my quick recall forgot about one of the Finals

The point remains - Pippen was never considered better or outplayed the opponent's #1 option, whereas Lebron always had a teammate that was considered better at the time (2012) or outplayed the #1 option (2013, 2016)
Wade was NOT considered better than Durant in 2012 :oldlol: Just further proof you didn't watch or follow basketball then.

And Duncan was better than Wade in the '13 Finals

SpaceJam2

11-25-2019, 11:46 PM

Why was 4 rebounds and 2 assists enough for MJ in 1998?

Why wasnt 12 rebounds and 10 assists enough for LeBron in 2017?

:lol

Because not everyone gets to play Jeff Hornacek in the Finals :lol

3ball getting undressed itt

Ainosterhaspie

11-25-2019, 11:46 PM

Also...

https://media.giphy.com/media/JSemy1zGoby2EsaNgM/giphy.gif

MaxPlayer

11-25-2019, 11:49 PM

Also...

https://media.giphy.com/media/JSemy1zGoby2EsaNgM/giphy.gif

This thread attempt went about as well for the OP as that drive did for his idol.

SpaceJam2

11-25-2019, 11:50 PM

Also...

https://media.giphy.com/media/JSemy1zGoby2EsaNgM/giphy.gif

Tragedy

3ball

11-25-2019, 11:51 PM

Wade was NOT considered better than Durant in 2012 :oldlol: Just further proof you didn't watch or follow basketball then.

And Duncan was better than Wade in the '13 Finals
Wade was the #2 player in 2010 - he was still considered a top player in 2012 and on Durant's level

Lebron had the most help in the league from 2011-2016

That's why he was favored to win the ring to start the 2011 and 2015 seasons - his team was viewed as having the most talent

so his 2016 ring wasn't really an upset because the Cavs were favorites on paper in 2015.. they were only underdogs for underachieving in the RS and failing to flirt with 70 wins like Curry and Kawhi did

SpaceJam2

11-25-2019, 11:53 PM

Wade was the #2 player in 2010 - he was still considered a top player in 2012 and on Durant's level

Lebron had the most help in the league from 2011-2016

That's why he was favored to win the ring to start the 2011 and 2015 seasons

Go to bed baldo

SouBeachTalents

11-25-2019, 11:55 PM

Wade was the #2 player in 2010 - he was still considered a top player in 2012 and on Durant's level
That's just factually not correct. It's so inaccurate it's not even worth arguing. Although this is coming from the same guy who said Love outplayed Dray in the '16 Finals :oldlol: So I wouldn't expect anything else from you

3ball

11-25-2019, 11:56 PM

Go to bed baldo
the 2015 Cavs were the pre-season and pre-playoffs favorite to win the ring over the Warriors, which proves that his team infact had more talent

the only reason they were underdogs were because they underachieved in the RS and failed to flirt with 70 wins like Curry or Kawhi did

Lebron is a perennial underachiever - 3 rings in 17 years despite Wade/Bosh/Love/Kyrie? pathetic and nowhere near goat

deal with that shit record bud and keep propping it up like it's something - it's nothing compared to MJ

Ainosterhaspie

11-25-2019, 11:58 PM

SouBeachTalents

11-25-2019, 11:59 PM

You can't be serious?
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13829366&postcount=1

Ainosterhaspie

11-25-2019, 11:59 PM

the 2015 Cavs were the pre-season and pre-playoffs favorite to win the ring over the Warriors, which proves that his team infact had more talent

the only reason they were underdogs were because they underachieved in the RS and failed to flirt with 70 wins like Curry or Kawhi did

Lebron is a perennial underachiever - 3 rings in 17 years despite Wade/Bosh/Love/Kyrie? pathetic and nowhere near goat

deal with that shit record bud and keep propping it up like it's something - it's nothing compared to MJ
That and the Cavs had three starters missing for the whole finals minus the partial game Kyrie played.

Ainosterhaspie

11-26-2019, 12:00 AM

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13829366&postcount=1
There are no words...

coastalmarker99

11-26-2019, 12:02 AM

That's just factually not correct. It's so inaccurate it's not even worth arguing. Although this is coming from the same guy who said Love outplayed Dray in the '16 Finals :oldlol: So I wouldn't expect anything else from you
why does he hate lebron so much lebron and Wilt are my favourite player's as lebron can do anything on the court besides shoot free throws same for wilt and they both have changed their play-styles to help their team's win.

SpaceJam2

11-26-2019, 12:04 AM

why does he hate lebron so much lebron and Wilt are my favourite player's as lebron can do anything on the court besides shoot free throws same for wilt and they both have changed their play-styles to help their team's win.

He is obssesed with MJ, who is threatened by LBJ's goat legacy run

coastalmarker99

11-26-2019, 12:05 AM

That and the Cavs had three starters missing for the whole finals minus the partial game Kyrie played.
why do people bring up that lebron would be 1 and 9 without ray and kyrie a fully healthy cavs team wins in 2015 in 5 games. gs could easily have been down 3 0 without kyrie and love if iman's shot goes in at the end of game 1.

coastalmarker99

11-26-2019, 12:15 AM

He is obssesed with MJ, who is threatened by LBJ's goat legacy run
I for one think that Mj was lucky to play in the 90's those bulls teams in the 80's at most win 3 titles and if he got to the finals having to beat those Celtics and that front court which would have destroyed the bulls as they had no good 5 in the 1990's. He would have got beaten by those showtime teams Kareem would have destroyed the bulls he destroyed the Celtics with their stacked front court in 1985 just think for a second that match up Horace Grant vs Kareem Kareem would average 30 plus a game lol and magic would have destroyed those bulls point guards and the Lakers would have had the better bench.

3ball

11-26-2019, 10:51 AM

MaxPlayer

11-26-2019, 11:19 AM

.
Thread Cliffs

Lebron needed a teammate to score almost as much as him to win the Finals, and therefore never carried a team offensively in the Finals like MJ

Lebron infact shared the burden with his equal-scoring teammate, while MJ carried the scoring burden alone for all 6 Finals

Of course, Jordan also didn't share the burden of playmaking or defending: rather he abdicated it. Had a goat-tier perimeter defender next to him. And won a title averaging 2 assists (which I'm sure is COMPLETELY UNRELATED to his 2nd option not scoring as much as Lebron's.)

SpaceJam2

11-26-2019, 11:27 AM

CLIFFS:

Of course, Jordan also didn't share the burden of playmaking or defending: rather he abdicated it. Had a goat-tier perimeter defender next to him. And won a title averaging 2 assists (which I'm sure is COMPLETELY UNRELATED to his 2nd option not scoring as much as Lebron's.)

3ball

11-26-2019, 11:36 AM

.
Assist Percentage 1991-1993 Playoffs:

Jordan: 31.1%
Pippen: 23.3%

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1991-1993-sum:playoffs_advanced
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1991-1993-sum:playoffs_advanced

Assist Percentage 1996-1998 Playoffs:

Jordan: 22.3%
Pippen: 22.0%

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1996-1998-sum:playoffs_advanced
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1996-1998-sum:playoffs_advanced

Of course, Jordan also didn't share the burden of playmaking or defending: rather he abdicated it. Had a goat-tier perimeter defender next to him. And won a title averaging 2 assists (which I'm sure is COMPLETELY UNRELATED to his 2nd option not scoring as much as Lebron's.)
MJ led the bulls in assists for 6 of 9 playoff runs alongside Pippen, and assisted on the most bulls field goals for both 3-peats (shown above)

So he carried the bulls scoring and led the team in passing.. that's better than lebron sharing the scoring load

Defensively, MJ was always the primary defender on the opponent's best player - Magic, Drexler, Miller, Isiah, Hardaway, Payton, etc... Pippen was only the primary defender on Penny in the 96' ECF, who torched him .. there is defensive videos of mj being the primary defender on all these guys on youtube

superduper

11-26-2019, 11:40 AM

3ball 1v10ing these fools like its easy :party:

SpaceJam2

11-26-2019, 11:44 AM

Playoffs

Most
Pts: MJ
Ast: Pip
Reb: Pip
Stl: Pip
Blk: Pip

Next

MaxPlayer

11-26-2019, 11:47 AM

Playoffs

Most
Pts: MJ
Ast: Pip
Reb: Pip
Stl: Pip
Blk: Pip

Next

That's unfair, though. No one could be great enough to lead their teams in ALL those categories, right? And surely not BOTH teams, in a playoff series of any length... right? .... right??

3ball

11-26-2019, 11:57 AM

That's unfair, though. No one could be great enough to lead their teams in ALL those categories, right? And surely not BOTH teams, in a playoff series of any length... right? .... right??
Both MJ and Lebron led their team in assists

but MJ also carried the scoring load (10-20 more than 2nd option for all Finals), while lebron shared the scoring load (2-5 more)

Carrying > sharing

So MJ's load is greater

Hey Yo

11-26-2019, 12:01 PM

So what - my quick recall forgot about one of the Finals

The point remains - Pippen was never considered better or outplayed the opponent's #1 option, whereas Lebron always had a teammate that was considered better at the time (2012) or outplayed the #1 option (2013, 2016)
Pippen outplayed Magic on one end and then locked him down on the other in the 1991 Finals.

Trollsmasher

11-26-2019, 12:06 PM

2012, 2013 and 2016

those were defensive anchor jobs as well:applause:

zeerghit

11-26-2019, 12:13 PM

.
Assist Percentage 1991-1993 Playoffs:

Jordan: 31.1%
Pippen: 23.3%

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1991-1993-sum:playoffs_advanced
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1991-1993-sum:playoffs_advanced

Assist Percentage 1996-1998 Playoffs:

Jordan: 22.3%
Pippen: 22.0%

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1996-1998-sum:playoffs_advanced
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1996-1998-sum:playoffs_advanced

MJ led the bulls in assists for 6 of 9 playoff runs alongside Pippen, and assisted on the most bulls field goals for both 3-peats (shown above)

So he carried the bulls scoring and led the team in passing.. that's better than lebron sharing the scoring load

Defensively, MJ was always the primary defender on the opponent's best player - Magic, Drexler, Miller, Isiah, Hardaway, Payton, etc... Pippen was only the primary defender on Penny in the 96' ECF, who torched him .. there is defensive videos of mj being the primary defender on all these guys on youtube
can u give me mj record against other top 10? like peak bird or isiah?

3ball

11-26-2019, 12:28 PM

Pippen outscored the opppsong team's #2 option in 5 of 6 Finals, while being the defensive anchor each year and getting more reb, ast, stl and blk than MJ

Pippen carried MJ

NEXT
Bottom line:

It's better to carry the scoring load and lead in passing, then sharing the scoring load

Ultimately, MJ needed less help because his ability to carry the scoreboard allowed GM's to surround him with cheaper hustle guys, while Lebron needs expensive scorers/playmakers because he can't carry the load like MJ

3ball

11-26-2019, 12:32 PM

can u give me mj record against other top 10? like peak bird or isiah?
Do you want MJ's record with or without an all-star teammate?

And what's lebron's record WITH MULTIPLE all-star teammates against Duncan or Curry?

So Lebron is a perennial underdog and loser with multiple all-star teammates, while MJ is practically undefeated with just 1 all star teammate