BackPicks ranks top 40 best NBA careers: LBJ and MJ not #1 [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

SpaceJam2

12-01-2019, 04:34 PM

Criteria:

https://i.postimg.cc/KvbjFpzP/backpicks.png

1. Kareem
2. LBJ
3. MJ
4. Russell
5. Shaq
6. Hakeem
7. Duncan

Link:

https://backpicks.com/2017/12/11/the-backpicks-goat-the-40-best-careers-in-nba-history/

Backpicks: "In total, Jordan is the only comparable perimeter peak in history, although James’s defense was slightly more impressive at its apex. Eight of LeBron’s last nine seasons are all-time level campaigns, pairing either good or great defense with transcendent offense. He’s logged enough mileage to challenge Jordan; this will be his 14th season on the All-NBA team, whereas MJ only made 11. Like the other great megastars who excel in non-scoring phases of the game, I do wonder if I’m undervaluing LeBron, given the unique shape of his offense."

Gotterdammerung

12-01-2019, 04:42 PM

DMAVS41

12-01-2019, 04:44 PM

This is from 2017.

Always a fan of new methods for ranking all-time greats across different eras. I especially like their names for eras: Dark Ages (1955-1974), Box Era (1974-1997), and Data Ball (1997-2017).

:cheers:

He finished writing it last year iirc, but I think he updated some of his rankings earlier this year.

knicksman

12-01-2019, 04:45 PM

you cant be top 10 if youre not a 1st option. Thats why bron need superteams coz he isnt a true 1st option.

SpaceJam2

12-01-2019, 05:14 PM

He finished writing it last year iirc, but I think he updated some of his rankings earlier this year.

Yes, it's current up to 2019 I believe.

Kblaze8855

12-01-2019, 05:40 PM

That pic is obviously not the criteria if Russell is ranked at all.

NBAGOAT

12-01-2019, 05:46 PM

That pic is obviously not the criteria if Russell is ranked at all.

Thts just for offensive impact. Taylor

DMAVS41

12-01-2019, 05:49 PM

[QUOTE=NBAGOAT]Thts just for offensive impact. Taylor

SpaceJam2

12-01-2019, 11:36 PM

That pic is obviously not the criteria if Russell is ranked at all.
Yes NBAGOAT is right, that was the offensive criteria only. Click the link, it's a great analysis!

Yea, I think he was 8th when the rankings were released.

Yeah, KG is the only major standout to me as well, which means he truly appreciates defense. Probably the reason why Kareem and LBJ are ranked over MJ too.

Marchesk

12-01-2019, 11:39 PM

Wilt not in the top 7 makes this a joke. How in the hell does Russell have a better offensive skill set? How is he better than Shaq?

SpaceJam2

12-01-2019, 11:42 PM

Wilt not in the top 7 makes this a joke. How in the hell does Russell have a better offensive skill set? How is he better than Shaq?

Per the website:
As you read player profiles, you will notice little mention of playoff performances or game-winning shots. That’s because sample-sizes are incredibly small; instead, playoffs are included as part of an entire evaluation. I’ll only call out the playoffs if they reflect something larger about a player. If you’re struck by the lack of discussion around clutch play or why “losing” players are ranked highly, all of these topics and more are explained in detail in Thinking Basketball. The book also examines critical components of team building (portability) and individual scoring that are foundational to these rankings.

So basically playoffs matter too :( We all know Wilt disappeared then, no?

Marchesk

12-01-2019, 11:51 PM

So basically playoffs matter too :( We all know Wilt disappeared then, no?

Do you think Russell had better playoff stats? Do you think having Sam Jones and Hondo as teammates might have helped win some of those close seven game series, including against Wilt's teams?

NBAGOAT

12-02-2019, 12:16 AM

Do you think Russell had better playoff stats? Do you think having Sam Jones and Hondo as teammates might have helped win some of those close seven game series, including against Wilt's teams?

i say no but taylor truly believes russell was a better playoff performer than wilt. It's two fold, he sees russell as easily the goat impact defender and he sees wilt as a black hole type scorer a lot of his prime years. As disrespectful as it sounds basically a better adrian dantley.

Smoke117

12-02-2019, 12:40 AM

I've always had KAJ at one.

SpaceJam2

12-02-2019, 01:30 AM

I've always had KAJ at one.

Backpicks agrees :cheers:

MJ @ 3 :eek:

Marchesk

12-02-2019, 01:33 AM

i say no but taylor truly believes russell was a better playoff performer than wilt. It's two fold, he sees russell as easily the goat impact defender and he sees wilt as a black hole type scorer a lot of his prime years. As disrespectful as it sounds basically a better adrian dantley.

Is Taylor an alias for Bill Simmons?

But let's say he's right about Wilt on the Warriors. What about Wilt on the 76ers or Lakers? Because it's much harder to make the case that he was a black hole on those teams. Also, he took on Russell's defensive role on the Lakers and was very effective at it.

LostCause

12-02-2019, 01:44 AM

Yeah, KG is the only major standout to me as well, which means he truly appreciates defense. Probably the reason why Kareem and LBJ are ranked over MJ too.

Not at all, he makes it pretty clear why he ranked LBJ over MJ (Which was also obvious at the time, because he literally said in the LBJ article after another strong playoff run LeBron will surpass MJ for him)

Longevity, which I don't think anyone here disagrees is LeBrons greatest argument for GOAT

From Jordan's page:

More importantly, Jordan lacked longevity, missing a year in ’94 and logging partial seasons in ’86 and ’95, both of which cost him valuable GOAT mileage. By my valuations, he composed 10 MVP-level seasons, compared to 12 for Kareem and Russell. If MJ’s injured seasons followed his valuations curve, he would have a strong argument for No. 1, and if his hypothetical 1994 season followed the curve, he would likely be No. 1 on this list

It comes down to Jordans injured season and his 94 season. If Jordan simply played both those years fully and at a similar level as the years surrounding them, he'd be #1 (Not #2, numero uno)

Anyway, I'm curious. You realize most of Ben Taylor's conclusions fly hard in the face of most of the narratives you guys parade around here right? (He has Jordan as the 6th GOAT playmaker, right behind LeBron who was 5th. Pippen not in the Top 10. Has Jordan as the GOAT Playoff performer, Highest Peak player, etc. List goes on and on)

3ball

12-02-2019, 06:34 AM

Hamtaro CP3KDKG

12-02-2019, 06:54 AM

Backpicks says mj had the highest peak, and only ranks Kareem and lebron ahead career-wise due to longevity

But backpicks is a joke - they don't consider winning AT ALL - like, I understand not making winning the be-all-end-all, but to not consider it AT ALL?.. ridiculous

or how teammates played/grew alongside the star (elevating teammates)? Only mj had to win rings by growing single-digit rookies (pippen/bj/grant) to all-star caliber - everyone else got ready-made stars to win (Kobe with Shaq/Pau.. Lebron's superteams.. Magic with Kareem, etc)

Guys like Duncan and curry also won by growing teammates, but not to the extent as MJ

But again, backpicks says MJ has the goat peak based solely on stats - when you include winning and teammate elevation, could there be any doubt who the goat is?

His CORP estimates are all over the place too and really inconsistent

He had MJ over Bran until last season

Yes a season where he played 55 games, next to no defense and missed the playoffs in a real conference while the team barely improved from the previous year is what have his career enough "value" to be ranked over MJ:roll:

I mean the fact that MJ has 11 healthy full seasons and Bran had 16 tells u all u need to know

MJ kept winning and for 2 3peats

The hunger level when you keep winning compared to keep losing is night and day

There's literally nothing more MJ could've proved. He had no weaknesses, GOAT level perimeter defender consistently throughout his prime along with being the GOAT scorer/offensive player, led 2 3peats, anchored all-time great to GOAT teams (which Bran still really hasn't the best is prolly 13 Heat and they struggled mightily in the playoffs despite immense talent and star power played with), never lost as the favorite, 24-0 with HCA no other ATG can say that. Contrary to popular belief many thought teams like the 93 Suns, 96 Sonics and 98 Jazz could beat them and the Sun's and Jazz series were even odds and maybe even slight underdogs, maybe Lakers too

There's simply no player on MJs tier. He's as flawless as a player can get and it's gonna take an absolute game breaking two-way force with unrivaled domination/playoff consistency to even approach him

Da_Realist

12-02-2019, 10:46 AM

LeBron is not as great as MJ was. Doesn't matter what Backpicks says or what rationale anyone uses. I've watched their whole careers. I've never once said, "I'm looking at the best basketball player I've ever seen" when I watch LeBron play. Not even close. I don't think anyone has ever thought that while watching him play. It's only in the post game analysis of all his stats and accomplishments that some try to justify placing him there. Doesn't work though.

LeBron has never given a sense that he is unbeatable. The league, media and fans know he's not but justify this missing element by saying, "Well LeBron hasn't had the right team around him" or "LeBron has had to face much better competition". This is why there is an all out effort every year (and sometimes during the year) to place just the right pieces around LeBron to give us the feeling that he's untouchable. Every year it fails. Even when he won, he looked beatable. Despite all the moving pieces to prop him up every year, he's the perpetual underdog.

The media and his fans are trying to prove what they want to believe instead of accepting reality. LeBron is a great player but he is not the best player you have ever seen pick up a basketball. Admit it. You know it's true. It's been 17 years now, 4 different franchises, countless trades and free agent acquisitions, several coaches fired/hired and annual efforts to form a super-team. It's time to give it up. This year he has the most talented team in a league where only two teams have a realistic shot to win it all and he's still not considered a lock!

MJ may or may not be the absolute best basketball player ever but he sure made us feel that way throughout various parts of his career.

LAmbruh

12-02-2019, 11:26 AM

Smells like another landslide victory

The 10 paragraph LeThesis reports flooding in bundles on this fine Monday morning

Grand slam execution and find, OP

warriorfan

12-02-2019, 11:34 AM

Backpage ranks op

SpaceJam2

12-02-2019, 11:35 AM

Smells like another landslide victory

The 10 paragraph LeThesis reports flooding in bundles on this fine Monday morning

Grand slam execution and find, OP

Thank you, thank you. And if I'm not mistaken DMAVS was the 1st to post it.

The good news is MJ stains can finally shut up and accept MJ at #3. LeBron will likely slide to #1 after this season.

WE JUST WIN

:dancin :djparty

insidious301

12-02-2019, 11:41 AM

What's the big hoopla over "backpicks"?

It barely takes winning into account, and relies on box score numbers to interpret analysis. Going on a few years now, we've seen players manipulate their stats so...? Not even saying the author didn't put in work. He did a pretty good job. The conclusion is flawed though.

Bosnian Sajo

12-02-2019, 11:42 AM

Kevin Garnett over Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Wilt Chamberlain, and Kobe Bryant?

I've read enough :oldlol:

LAmbruh

12-02-2019, 12:09 PM

Thank you, thank you. And if I'm not mistaken DMAVS was the 1st to post it.

The good news is MJ stains can finally shut up and accept MJ at #3. LeBron will likely slide to #1 after this season.

WE JUST WIN

:dancin :djparty
:applause:

2019 poster of the Year and embrace it bro

I've also observed your presence has completely preoccupied Welfareman's well being on each of his 20 accounts.

Kiiiing and I both collectively held that torch for years, and proudly

However I must confess it seems you've intruded his attention on a grand scale of misery and rage. He's extremely attached already, probably even heal for you without the leash

Bravo sir

https://media.giphy.com/media/g9582DNuQppxC/giphy.gif

SpaceJam2

12-02-2019, 05:13 PM

:applause:

2019 poster of the Year and embrace it bro

I've also observed your presence has completely preoccupied Welfareman's well being on each of his 20 accounts.

Kiiiing and I both collectively held that torch for years, and proudly

However I must confess it seems you've intruded his attention on a grand scale of misery and rage. He's extremely attached already, probably even heal for you without the leash

Bravo sir

https://media.giphy.com/media/g9582DNuQppxC/giphy.gif

Wow with this recognition coming from the original and truest Lakers fan on this board I graciously and humbly accept this honor--from one LA king to another!

Ashy Boi has been extremely fixated with me for a while, so has 1ball and his barrage of cringey alts that continue to spew paragraph after paragraph of nonsensically contrived maniacal rage and confusion.

I salute you all, LeFam, for holding strong, we mustn't forget this is a tough time for Kobe and MJ stains. Why, you might ask? Because LeBron has now passed them both in all-time ranks, and as such, these are mightily troubling times for the aforementioned stains.

https://media.giphy.com/media/3orif3j4dRfClbz18k/giphy.gif

Manny98

12-02-2019, 06:16 PM

SpaceJam2

12-02-2019, 06:40 PM

MJ stans acting like longevity is meaningless lol

GOAT rankings are based on what you do for you entire career not just your peak

Don't be mad at LeBron that MJ decided to play baseball for a couple of years during his prime

LeBron is currently 2nd and will move up to 1st once he gets one more

Yep! Without longevity, aka, CONSISTENCY we'd be arguing Harden or T-Mac and the likes.

It's a damn good thing overall consistency matters

Gotterdammerung

12-02-2019, 07:00 PM

MJ may or may not be the absolute best basketball player ever but he sure made us feel that way throughout various parts of his career.

I agree with what you posted prior to this excerpt, and would like to add that Jordan was considered one of the greatest ever even before he won a playoff series (see the 1986 series vs Boston).

But I remember watching the 1991 Finals, and the Lakers were generally favored over the Bulls. After Game 1, when Sam Perkins hit that game winning shot, it seemed inevitable that Jordan was about to win one, but not necessarily in 1991.

In 1992, the Bulls seemed the better team over the Blazers, but not necessarily. It was during the Barcelona Olympics that summer when media began to create the invincible myth of Jordan.

And in 1993 when Jordan led the Bulls over the Knicks in the Eastern conference finals, coming back from down 0-2, all that noise up to that date seemed fait accompli. :oldlol:

72-10

12-02-2019, 07:55 PM

I've always had KAJ at one.

Kareem could pass, but I don't think he'd make a good point guard.:confusedshrug:

Oh wait, did you mean on your player list? OK, now I see, but frankly I gave up when I saw LeBron at 2.

72-10

12-02-2019, 07:58 PM

knicksman

12-02-2019, 08:04 PM

MJ stans acting like longevity is meaningless lol

GOAT rankings are based on what you do for you entire career not just your peak

Don't be mad at LeBron that MJ decided to play baseball for a couple of years during his prime

LeBron is currently 2nd and will move up to 1st once he gets one more

and this is why bron stans and kobe stans are different. You guys give importance to trivial matters like longetivity. You guys value FG% so much but now longetivity is valuable when the longer a player plays, the lesser his winning% becomes.

SpaceJam2

12-02-2019, 08:16 PM

and this is why bron stans and kobe stans are different. You guys give importance to trivial matters like longetivity. You guys value FG% so much but now longetivity is valuable when the longer a player plays, the lesser his winning% becomes.

Shut up 3balt

SpaceJam2

12-02-2019, 08:18 PM

Kareem could pass, but I don't think he'd make a good point guard.:confusedshrug:

Oh wait, did you mean on your player list? OK, now I see, but frankly I gave up when I saw LeBron at 2.

You know it's much better I agreed to be honest I was a little frustrated I didn't see him at number one either but I decided to read through it anyway. You should do the same. I know we both think he should be number one but I guess that's how it goes sometimes

LostCause

12-04-2019, 08:59 AM

Not at all, he makes it pretty clear why he ranked LBJ over MJ (Which was also obvious at the time, because he literally said in the LBJ article after another strong playoff run LeBron will surpass MJ for him)

Longevity, which I don't think anyone here disagrees is LeBrons greatest argument for GOAT

From Jordan's page:

It comes down to Jordans injured season and his 94 season. If Jordan simply played both those years fully and at a similar level as the years surrounding them, he'd be #1 (Not #2, numero uno)

Anyway, I'm curious. You realize most of Ben Taylor's conclusions fly hard in the face of most of the narratives you guys parade around here right? (He has Jordan as the 6th GOAT playmaker, right behind LeBron who was 5th. Pippen not in the Top 10. Has Jordan as the GOAT Playoff performer, Highest Peak player, etc. List goes on and on)

Got that boy contemplating how to approach this post without embarrassing himself further :applause:

Gileraracer

12-04-2019, 09:06 AM

[...] given the unique shape of his offense."

Nice way to describe the stiff arm travel bulldoze style. :roll:

Rico2016

12-04-2019, 11:28 PM

MJ
LBJ
KAJ

Swap the top 3 anyway you want really

SpaceJam2

12-10-2019, 12:47 AM

Will LeBron pass Kareem for the #1 spot after this year, moving MJ to a sad third place?

Duncan21formvp

12-10-2019, 12:53 AM

A teammate of Kareem has more Finals MVP's than him. A teammate of Lebron has the same finals mvp's as him (Shaq) and more titles.

72-10

12-10-2019, 12:57 AM

wow:applause:

SpaceJam2

12-10-2019, 12:57 AM

A teammate of Kareem has more Finals MVP's than him. A teammate of Lebron has the same finals mvp's as him (Shaq) and more titles.

What was MJ's best ring, 3ball?

SpaceJam2

01-08-2020, 10:43 PM

Will 2020 be the year LeBron passes Kareem for the #1 spot, moving MJ down to a realistic third place?

3ball

01-08-2020, 10:51 PM

Will 2020 be the year LeBron passes Kareem for the #1 spot, moving MJ down to a realistic third place?
Lebron is #16 on my rankings, and I guarantee that he'll won't be top 5 on mainstream rankings within 5 years

As the resume Giannis, Kawhi and others grows, Lebron's light will dim... people will be saying things like "well we all know lebron is probably a top 10 guy"... you'll see

warriorfan

01-08-2020, 10:53 PM

Backpage ranks Gloria James #1

SpaceJam2

01-08-2020, 10:56 PM

Lebron is #16 on my rankings, and I guarantee that he'll won't be top 5 on mainstream rankings within 5 years

As the resume Giannis, Kawhi and others grows, Lebron's light will dim... people will be saying things like "well we all know lebron is probably a top 10 guy"... you'll see

6911
1st

Bye

SpaceJam2

01-08-2020, 10:59 PM

Backpage ranks Gloria James #1

https://i.postimg.cc/wMgJNFQ7/iutgkjfvkf.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/05t5qcKZ/ghkjghkghkghkhjk.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/s25tm9hp/ballin2.jpg

warriorfan

01-08-2020, 11:02 PM

https://i.postimg.cc/wMgJNFQ7/iutgkjfvkf.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/05t5qcKZ/ghkjghkghkghkhjk.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/s25tm9hp/ballin2.jpg

Nice selfie

https://i.postimg.cc/JhVBJdHk/280-F87-C4-99-C8-45-C8-AE9-F-A5-C1-F419-BB78.jpg

Nice life

SpaceJam2

01-08-2020, 11:03 PM

SpaceJam2

01-08-2020, 11:03 PM

Nice selfie

https://i.postimg.cc/JhVBJdHk/280-F87-C4-99-C8-45-C8-AE9-F-A5-C1-F419-BB78.jpg

Nice life

Thats all literally you :lol

3ball

01-08-2020, 11:05 PM

The top 5 GOAT list is SIMPLE

per game is what matters

career totals can be matched by any 5 ppg dude that plays a million games

SpaceJam2

01-08-2020, 11:06 PM

per game is what matters

career totals can be matched by any 5 ppg lame that plays a million games

You are right let's make it fair then. We'll take the best 13 Seasons from every player. Ready?

https://i.postimg.cc/SsdmvMPS/GOATlist-Simple.jpg

I'll even give Shaq Kobe and Kareem a couple more seasons but will hold LeBron and Jordan to only 13 playoff runs. Good?

3ball

01-08-2020, 11:13 PM

I'll even give Shaq Kobe and Kareem a couple more seasons but will hold LeBron and Jordan to only 13 playoff runs. Good?

there's never been a player that scored 5 more ppg on better efficiency that wasn't considered the far better player

So sorry, but playing more games doesn't make you better - doing more each game is what makes you better, and that's MJ

SpaceJam2

01-08-2020, 11:17 PM

there's never been a player that scored 5 more ppg on better efficiency that wasn't considered the far better player

So sorry, but playing more games doesn't make you better - doing more each game is what makes you better, and that's MJ

I'm not gonna reward MJ for playing fewer games in equal playoff appearances :lol

Nice try tho

NEXT!

Da_Realist

01-08-2020, 11:19 PM

there's never been a player that scored 5 more ppg on better efficiency that wasn't considered the far better player

So sorry, but playing more games doesn't make you better - doing more each game is what makes you better, and that's MJ

He knows it. That's why he's on here every day taking out his frustrations. And everyone else knows it too. LeBron can't draw flies. Meanwhile everyone is salivating over an upcoming documentary of MJ's worst championship team from over 20 years ago. :oldlol: