Luka, Harden, Beal

[HALLandOATES]

Steven A and Max both talked about how harden could average 50 and still not be as good as scorer as durant,jordan. both said his scoring is

[Im so nba'd out]

LeBron James

[Marchesk]

Kyrie Irving

[Gileraracer]

The stats are absolutely inflated.

This season we already have more 150+ point regulation games (5) than from 99/00 to 18/19 combined (4)

[scuzzy]

he can't keep getting away with this

[LAmbruh]

Another reason that makes Lebron so great


He's been consistently killing it across multiple eras since 2003

[nayte]

I think it's a given that stats are easier to get these days. And while not a big fan of harden but he is playing to the rules so good on him. It's the same as the wilt talk. Why is no one else doing what he does .

[Micku]

For me, James Harden has to get it done in the playoffs.

And it's weird. Like KD is a better scorer in terms of he has more moves and is more efficient than James Harden. And I think that's why KD performs better than Harden in the playoffs. But James Harden is a better scorer in terms of just getting you the ppg in the regular season. His stats may have been inflated with Mike D'antoni coaching or of course the rules of this era, but that's a given. He is still one of the best scorers the league has ever seen, but not the best ever nor is he the best in this era imo.

Luka seems great, but we gotta see what he could do as well in the playoffs.

[nayte]

For me, James Harden has to get it done in the playoffs.

And it's weird. Like KD is a better scorer in terms of he has more moves and is more efficient than James Harden. And I think that's why KD performs better than Harden in the playoffs. But James Harden is a better scorer in terms of just getting you the ppg in the regular season. His stats may have been inflated with Mike D'antoni coaching or of course the rules of this era, but that's a given. He is still one of the best scorers the league has ever seen, but not the best ever nor is he the best in this era imo.

Luka seems great, but we gotta see what he could do as well in the playoffs.

I agree with most but who is a better scorer in this era in your imo

[NBAGOAT]

For me, James Harden has to get it done in the playoffs.

And it's weird. Like KD is a better scorer in terms of he has more moves and is more efficient than James Harden. And I think that's why KD performs better than Harden in the playoffs. But James Harden is a better scorer in terms of just getting you the ppg in the regular season. His stats may have been inflated with Mike D'antoni coaching or of course the rules of this era, but that's a given. He is still one of the best scorers the league has ever seen, but not the best ever nor is he the best in this era imo.

Luka seems great, but we gotta see what he could do as well in the playoffs.

Kd had playoff issues pre gs and it was obvious defenses gameplanned more for curry in the playoffs. His reliance on his jumpshot isn

[Gileraracer]

Another reason that makes Lebron so great


He's been consistently killing it across multiple eras since 2003

Unfortunately in the finals he consistently GOT killed :(

[brain drain]

It will always be difficult to compare Dirk to Luka.

One of Dirks greatest contribution to his teams was that by being such a tall and deadly shooter from outside, he warped defenses by pulling bigs out from under the basket. He provided spacing which guys like Jason Terry, JJ Barea etc used. That spacing didn't show up in the stat sheet, though, which is one of the reasons why Dirk was underrated for a big part of his career.

Today's game is much different, and Luka's contributions translate better into stats, so he will always look better on paper than Dirk.

Nevertheless, judging by how his play translates to winning, if he can keep this it up, Luka seems to already be at the level of Dirk's better years, as far as regular season play is concerned.

Playoff play can't be compared until we have seen enough samples of playoff Luka, which we haven't.

[julizaver]

[QUOTE=HALLandOATES]Steven A and Max both talked about how harden could average 50 and still not be as good as scorer as durant,jordan. both said his scoring is

[ImKobe]

You'd think Beal would be a top 10 player with him averaging 28.7 ppg and 7.1 apg on 58.5%TS, those are prime Lebron numbers.

However, you look at Trae Young putting up 28.7/8.4 and Luka putting up 30.3/9.2 and you quickly realize that these numbers aren't so special, especially with Beal doing it on a losing team. I think the Wizards are just trying to play at ridiculously high pace to hopefully bait some teams into trading for their young "assets" because their numbers are impressive and they do have a top 5 ORTG right now, despite being among the worst teams in the league.

Harden's numbers are vastly overrated, he'll end up averaging 35+ ppg on 60%-ish TS but half his games will be 40 points on 30% shooting and he'll likely flame out in the Playoffs yet again with horrible shooting in crucial games.

[ralph_i_el]

You'd think Beal would be a top 10 player with him averaging 28.7 ppg and 7.1 apg on 58.5%TS, those are prime Lebron numbers.

However, you look at Trae Young putting up 28.7/8.4 and Luka putting up 30.3/9.2 and you quickly realize that these numbers aren't so special, especially with Beal doing it on a losing team. I think the Wizards are just trying to play at ridiculously high pace to hopefully bait some teams into trading for their young "assets" because their numbers are impressive and they do have a top 5 ORTG right now, despite being among the worst teams in the league.

Harden's numbers are vastly overrated, he'll end up averaging 35+ ppg on 60%-ish TS but half his games will be 40 points on 30% shooting and he'll likely flame out in the Playoffs yet again with horrible shooting in crucial games.

Ortg is a measure of efficiency though, so pace doesn't factor into it. The Wizards actually have an elite offense. The problem is, we got that offense by playing really undersized at pretty much every position. The defense is horrible because with IT on the court we play a zone, without a lot of guys who cover tons of space on D.

Beal is probably top-10 right now, with Durant/Curry/Klay all out.

[StrongLurk]

I guess the only stats that count are 1994-2005?

[DMAVS41]

It will always be difficult to compare Dirk to Luka.

One of Dirks greatest contribution to his teams was that by being such a tall and deadly shooter from outside, he warped defenses by pulling bigs out from under the basket. He provided spacing which guys like Jason Terry, JJ Barea etc used. That spacing didn't show up in the stat sheet, though, which is one of the reasons why Dirk was underrated for a big part of his career.

Today's game is much different, and Luka's contributions translate better into stats, so he will always look better on paper than Dirk.

Nevertheless, judging by how his play translates to winning, if he can keep this it up, Luka seems to already be at the level of Dirk's better years, as far as regular season play is concerned.

Playoff play can't be compared until we have seen enough samples of playoff Luka, which we haven't.

I love Luka, but what you are saying above isn't really how it should be viewed in my opinion.

For example, when Luka leaves the court, the Mavs are outscoring the opponents to the tune of 12.1 points per 100 possessions. This is absolutely insane.

In comparison, nearly every year of Dirk's career...the team crumbled when he left the floor. For his entire prime, the Mavs only had a positive scoring differential with him off the court...one time. The 2006 season in which they were +.2 points per 100 without him.

So while Luka is amazing and his production is clearly translating to benefits on the court...if you gave, for example...05 Dirk a bench with a +12 net rating...they probably win 75 games.

I mean, they won 58 and the bench had a -4.1 net rating.

Lets not forget that Dirk led this franchise to 10 straight 50 win seasons, made the finals twice, and won a title.

I'm going to tap the brakes before I start agreeing that Luka is about as good as Dirk was...even just talking about the regular season.

[Sharmer]

Stats are inflated these days, nonathletic players can put up 30, this wasn't normal back in earlier generations.

[ImKobe]

Ortg is a measure of efficiency though, so pace doesn't factor into it. The Wizards actually have an elite offense. The problem is, we got that offense by playing really undersized at pretty much every position. The defense is horrible because with IT on the court we play a zone, without a lot of guys who cover tons of space on D.

Beal is probably top-10 right now, with Durant/Curry/Klay all out.

Pace factors in because teams are pushing the ball up the court and creating more fastbreak opportunities, it leads to horrible defense but they're chucking up a high volume of 3s, which helps boost ORTG.

[NBAGOAT]

Pace factors in because teams are pushing the ball up the court and creating more fastbreak opportunities, it leads to horrible defense but they're chucking up a high volume of 3s, which helps boost ORTG.

ortg does correlate positively with pace but it's not huge. There are some decent studies out there.