wade and kyrie - who had better playmaking help than this?

[3ball]

and how could anyone ask for more playmaking help despite having these guys?

that would be ridiculous... why should anyone deserve more playmaking help than everyone else in the league?

[Uncle Drew]

Playmaker Kyrie, where teams FLOURISH in his absence.

[LAmbruh]

Playmaker Kyrie, where teams FLOURISH in his absence.
this

teams are FLOURISHING without Kyrie

[SpaceJam]

Playmaker Kyrie, where teams FLOURISH in his absence.

Yep, shuts down that theory

[3ball]

this

teams are FLOURISHING without Kyrie
teams flourishing or not flourishing with Kyrie at #1 option has nothing to do with the OP (whether he's good help)

Kyrie is better playmaking help than anyone else had - that's the point

yet lebron asked for MORE playmaking help and then got personal with Barkley (like a female b.itch) when he got called on it

[LAmbruh]

F
L
O
U
R
I
S
H
I
N
G


:banana:

[3ball]

I can't refute the point being made.. indeed, OP is right and Lebron is a cheating/colluding b.itch

so I'll just say something irrelevant and act autistic rather than attempt to refute his stone cold, lead pipe of a lock argument


:banana:
damn bro, I appreciate the honesty

[SpaceJam]

teams flourishing or not flourishing with Kyrie at #1 option has nothing to do with the OP (whether he's good help)

Kyrie is better playmaking help than anyone else had - that's the point

yet lebron asked for MORE playmaking help and then got personal with Barkley (like a female b.itch) when he got called on it

By anyone else, what would you mean? In the league that year? All time?

[SpaceJam2]

and how could anyone ask for more playmaking help despite having these guys?

that would be ridiculous... why should anyone deserve more playmaking help than everyone else in the league?

Ya know, 90s milkmen put up 10 ppg as a #2 in the Finals but that doesn't cut it these days.

Translation: Modern era players are incredibly skilled and difficult, thus require more to be beaten.

[Gil Renard]

Ya know, 90s milkmen put up 10 ppg as a #2 in the Finals but that doesn't cut it these days.

Translation: Modern era players are incredibly skilled and difficult, thus require more to be beaten.

This is true. Jordan had Pippen to bail him out against historically weak competition in the 90

[Ainosterhaspie]

Kyrie is not a playmaker, he's an iso specialist. Wade is significantly better in that role, but he's also better suited for getting his than running an offended.

[MaxPlayer]

Lebron without Kyrie: 115 Career Playoff Wins
Jordan without Pippen: 1 Career Playoff Win

:eek:

[STATUTORY]

Lebron has played with 13 50 point scorers over his career

let that sink in

[MaxPlayer]

Lebron has played with 13 50 point scorers over his career

let that sink in

GOAT playmaker confirmed :rockon:

[SpaceJam2]

This is true. Jordan had Pippen to bail him out against historically weak competition in the 90’s expansion era...and he still had to beg Rodman and Kukoc to come join forces to stack the deck even more...weak.

You're absolutely correct. And the crazy part is that's only one side of the competition; the team he played with. When you start to look at the team he played against, it's even more comical. Not once did he ever play against a great team.

MJ's career

Teams played with: stacked, all nba defenders every year

Teams played against: Historically weak, worst number two option in finals history

Conclusion: Once Jordan had Scottie Pippen he always had the advantage and never faced a deficit.

[SpaceJam2]

Lebron without Kyrie: 115 Career Playoff Wins
Jordan without Pippen: 1 Career Playoff Win

:eek:


Yiiikes :eek:

[Jingo]

3ball still at it I see.

[3ball]

You're absolutely correct. And the crazy part is that's only one side of the competition; the team he played with. When you start to look at the team he played against, it's even more comical. Not once did he ever play against a great team.

MJ's career

Teams played with: stacked, all nba defenders every year

Teams played against: Historically weak, worst number two option in finals history

Conclusion: Once Jordan had Scottie Pippen he always had the advantage and never faced a deficit.




Associated Press, 1991 Preseason:


"the Pistons’ second straight dominating season has the rest of the East’s coaches scratching their heads over what to do about it. But everyone concedes Detroit is the favorite to become the first team since the 1959-66 Celtics to win as many as three consecutive championships."

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1990-10-28-sp-4734-story.html


Conclusion: MJ was an underdog to win it in 1991 to a Warriors'-like dynasty that was pursuing a 3-peat.. Yet he beat that dynasty to make his first Finals and then won as an underdog (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12503385&postcount=33) versus a 5-time Finals winner and the widely-regarded goat at the time..

So the burning question for the goat is "could this be MJ's greatest ring?"

Possibly, but each ring reached all-time level for different reasons.. But the one constant was MJ's unique feat of winning as the league scoring champ (goat burden to win a ring) and having a goat margin over his 2nd option (10-20 more than 2nd option in every Finals, aka goat carry-job/burden)..

From a professional statistician point of view, 538.com ranks Jordan's baby cast from 1991 among the weakest casts to ever win a ring (link (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/where-this-years-cavs-rank-among-lebrons-nba-finals-supporting-casts/)), along with Dirk's 2011 and Hakeem's 1994 casts - but only MJ has two such carry-jobs that rank near the bottom of supporting casts (91' and 93'), aka GOAT carrier of casts..

Indeed, we know that Lebron missed the playoffs 3 times with casts that were lottery the prior year (04', 05', 19'), and therefore never carried a lottery cast to a low seeded playoff birth like MJ did - Lebron only made it with good teams/high seeds/fortified teams (i.e. missed playoffs with the East all-star center in 05', and then made it in 06' by adding the future COY and a 20-pt all-defender sidekick).. So the biggest knocks of his career might not be 3/9 or his numerous chokes - it might be his inability to carry truly weak teams to low seeds (needing high seeds/good teams to make playoffs), and also going only 3/7 with 2 super-star teammates, i.e. "super-teams" from 11-17'... so basically, underachieving regardless of cast, aka loser)
.

[3ball]

bump

[Mr Exlax]

I think MJ had better playmaking help. Wade for like 3 years and Kyrie for like 2? How long were Pippen and MJ teammates?

[3ball]

I think MJ had better playmaking help. Wade for like 3 years and Kyrie for like 2? How long were Pippen and MJ teammates?
In 2013 and 2014, Wade was only reduced to prime Pippen numbers (21/5/5 on great efficiency in 2013 Finals and the entire 2014 regular season and playoffs thru the ECF)

So Lebron had Wade for 4 years and Kyrie for 3 - that's 7 years, which equals Jordan's run with Pippen (excluding 1988 and 1989 when Pippen was nothing)

and let's not forget that Hughes was 22/5/5 in 2005 the year prior to joining Lebron, and Mo Williams was 17 and 6 apg before joining Lebron - both were similar playmaking help to Pippen as well.. now he has rondo and AD.. again, similar to pippen (better obviously)
.

[SouBeachTalents]

In 2013 and 2014, Wade was only reduced to prime Pippen numbers (21/5/5 on great efficiency in 2013 Finals and the entire 2014 regular season and playoffs thru the ECF)

So Lebron had Wade for 4 years and Kyrie for 3 - that's 7 years, which equals Jordan's run with Pippen (excluding 1988 and 1989 when Pippen was nothing)

and let's not forget that Hughes was 22/5/5 in 2005 the year prior to joining Lebron, and Mo Williams was 17 and 6 apg before joining Lebron - both were similar playmaking help to Pippen as well.. now he has rondo and AD.. again, similar to pippen (better obviously)
.
51%TS is "great" efficiency now :oldlol: And you will just continue to pretend that defense does not exist, make sure you never, ever mention it in these comparisons involving Pippen

[3ball]

51%TS is "great" efficiency now :oldlol: And you will just continue to pretend that defense does not exist, make sure you never, ever mention it in these comparisons involving Pippen
Wade averaged 21/5/5 on great efficiency in 2013 regular season and Finals, and the 2014 regular season thru the ECF

you just make up your own shit - you say shit that I didn't say - etc - because you can't refute anything i'm actually saying..

you guys are a joke

[SouBeachTalents]

Wade averaged 21/5/5 on great efficiency in 2013 regular season and Finals, and the 2014 regular season thru the ECF

you just make up your own shit - you say shit that I didn't say - etc - because you can't refute anything i'm actually saying..

you guys are a joke
Check it out for yourself chief

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2013-nba-finals-spurs-vs-heat.html

[Uncle Drew]

Wade averaged 21/5/5 on great efficiency in 2013 regular season and Finals, and the 2014 regular season thru the ECF

you just make up your own shit - you say shit that I didn't say - etc - because you can't refute anything i'm actually saying..

you guys are a joke
Man, just KYS already.

[3ball]

Check it out for yourself chief

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2013-nba-finals-spurs-vs-heat.html
same as Pippen's standard efficiency

and the same as Lebron's in those same Finals

and I was talking about his FG% anyway, which was good

[Mr Exlax]

In 2013 and 2014, Wade was only reduced to prime Pippen numbers (21/5/5 on great efficiency in 2013 Finals and the entire 2014 regular season and playoffs thru the ECF)

So Lebron had Wade for 4 years and Kyrie for 3 - that's 7 years, which equals Jordan's run with Pippen (excluding 1988 and 1989 when Pippen was nothing)

and let's not forget that Hughes was 22/5/5 in 2005 the year prior to joining Lebron, and Mo Williams was 17 and 6 apg before joining Lebron - both were similar playmaking help to Pippen as well.. now he has rondo and AD.. again, similar to pippen (better obviously)
.


Oh I'm not asking your opinion of it. I'm telling you who I think had better playmaking help. Continuity helps Pippen and MJ out as well. That's something casuals like yourself can't seem to understand. Basketball is far more than just statistics lil daddy. When you get older you'll understand

[tpols]

51%TS is "great" efficiency now :oldlol: And you will just continue to pretend that defense does not exist, make sure you never, ever mention it in these comparisons involving Pippen


Wade's not a great defender?

:biggums:

or player?

:roll:

[SouBeachTalents]

Wade's not a great defender?

:biggums:

or player?

:roll:
:biggums: Nigguh when the hell did I ever say Wade wasn't a great player. How could you even ascertain that from my post. That's some delusional ish :lol

If we're talking 2013/14 Wade, by any objective measure he was no longer that same great player, he was a shell of what he used to be riddled with injuries and inconsistent play. And Wade was an elite defender, but better than Pippen? Hell nah, especially if you're referring to the 2013/14 version

[tpols]

:biggums: Nigguh when the hell did I ever say Wade wasn't a great player. How could you even ascertain that from my post. That's some delusional ish :lol

If we're talking 2013/14 Wade, by any objective measure he was no longer that same great player, he was a shell of what he used to be riddled with injuries and inconsistent play. And Wade was an elite defender, but better than Pippen? Hell nah, especially if you're referring to the 2013/14 version


yes and a lot of that has to do with circumstance.

He was disengaged by the end of the long rendezvous.

Wade literally came back years later looking like a star.

smh. :facepalm

Hes also one of the best guard defenders ever.