3ball
12-13-2019, 01:03 PM
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1) He carries bad teams to the Finals
Lebron missed the playoffs 3 times with teams that were lottery the prior year (04', 05', 19') - so he never carried truly bad/lottery teams to low seeds and only made the playoffs with high seeds/good teams relative to the conference
i.e. the Cavs were a 2-seed in 2007 - they weren't some "bad" team and their run was matched by Dwight, Kidd and AI carrying sub-par casts through the same weak conference (01', 02', 03', 07', 09').. So it isn't remarkable that Lebron made this list of "easy East" runs one time, except that he ceded a 2nd easy run to Dwight in 09' (and then lost to Dirk's goat carry-job in 11')
TLDR: After the high-seeded and much-duplicated/superceded run in 2007, Lebron's Finals runs either involve super-teams (11-14' and 16-17'), or the best 2nd option in the conference (15' and 18')..
2) Pippen's defense outweighs the offensive deficit that he has against Lebron's 2nd and 3rd options
Many of Lebron's teams had better-ranked defenses than MJ's first 3-peat teams (only ranked 7th), and therefore better defensive help overall - lebron had better rim protectors, more athletic guards, and more good rebounders/bangers than Jordan's teams,cwhich is why many of his teams ranked higher than Jordan's best teams.
3) Teams fall off a lot without Lebron, which proves that he increases a team's championship odds the most
Any team that employs the 1 ball-dominator approach will drop off a lot without that ball-dominator.. See Nash or CP3's teams in 12' and 13' as examples, or Lebron's teams when he leaves.
But the drop-off isn't a signal that Lebron/CP3/Nash increase championship odds the most, because their style doesn't give their team a championship ceiling/falls short of championship ceiling...
Otoh, the players that increase championship odds the most are players whose styles actually give the team a championship ceiling, while still producing statistically, i.e. MJ, Curry, Bird, Kawhi, and Kobe.. teams with these guys can still have winning regular season records in their absence because the team keeps moving the ball with or without them, as opposed to reinventing the wheel in the absence of a ball-dominator.
4) Lebron has better stats
He wins career totals due to longevity, otherwise MJ wins the most important per game stats such as ppg, efficiency rating, plus-minus, oreb, lower turnovers, FT%, efficiency per possession (ortg), usage, among others
Regarding raw stats, nothing can top MJ's advantage in ppg and scoring titles.. regarding advanced stats, nothing tops MJ's advantage in plus-minus, PER, and WS/48, while only MJ is top 2 in all the "big 4" advanced box stats - BPM, VORP, PER, WS/48
MJ also tops Lebron in clutch shooting efficiency, overall clutch stats, change in teammate stats, assisted rate, double-teams attracted, jumpshooting efficiency, post efficiency, and many other drivers of winning
5) Lebron played better teams, which explains his championship record
1) Lebron had his own Big 3's and only faced talent deficits in 07', 15', 17' and 18' Finals (losing mostly via sweep or record amount).. the only time he overcame a talent deficit was the 07' ECF, so MJ overcame more talent deficits, and bigger ones.. Ultimately, MJ played in a 2-star vs 2-star format, so those teams can't be compared to the 3-star vs. 3 star format that Lebron played in
2) Facing great teams doesn't prevent you from having great teams yourself that can compete EVENLY/adequately... But Lebron failed to compete adequately because he's 2-5 against the best teams of the era (Spurs/Warriors), including 2 sweeps and 2 record defeats.. Who cares about the 1 time he beat the warriors or Spurs when he lost 5 times to them?
3) Lebron was compensated for his perceived Finals "comp" by getting more Finals chances via weaker comp in the first 3 rounds (weak conference)
1) He carries bad teams to the Finals
Lebron missed the playoffs 3 times with teams that were lottery the prior year (04', 05', 19') - so he never carried truly bad/lottery teams to low seeds and only made the playoffs with high seeds/good teams relative to the conference
i.e. the Cavs were a 2-seed in 2007 - they weren't some "bad" team and their run was matched by Dwight, Kidd and AI carrying sub-par casts through the same weak conference (01', 02', 03', 07', 09').. So it isn't remarkable that Lebron made this list of "easy East" runs one time, except that he ceded a 2nd easy run to Dwight in 09' (and then lost to Dirk's goat carry-job in 11')
TLDR: After the high-seeded and much-duplicated/superceded run in 2007, Lebron's Finals runs either involve super-teams (11-14' and 16-17'), or the best 2nd option in the conference (15' and 18')..
2) Pippen's defense outweighs the offensive deficit that he has against Lebron's 2nd and 3rd options
Many of Lebron's teams had better-ranked defenses than MJ's first 3-peat teams (only ranked 7th), and therefore better defensive help overall - lebron had better rim protectors, more athletic guards, and more good rebounders/bangers than Jordan's teams,cwhich is why many of his teams ranked higher than Jordan's best teams.
3) Teams fall off a lot without Lebron, which proves that he increases a team's championship odds the most
Any team that employs the 1 ball-dominator approach will drop off a lot without that ball-dominator.. See Nash or CP3's teams in 12' and 13' as examples, or Lebron's teams when he leaves.
But the drop-off isn't a signal that Lebron/CP3/Nash increase championship odds the most, because their style doesn't give their team a championship ceiling/falls short of championship ceiling...
Otoh, the players that increase championship odds the most are players whose styles actually give the team a championship ceiling, while still producing statistically, i.e. MJ, Curry, Bird, Kawhi, and Kobe.. teams with these guys can still have winning regular season records in their absence because the team keeps moving the ball with or without them, as opposed to reinventing the wheel in the absence of a ball-dominator.
4) Lebron has better stats
He wins career totals due to longevity, otherwise MJ wins the most important per game stats such as ppg, efficiency rating, plus-minus, oreb, lower turnovers, FT%, efficiency per possession (ortg), usage, among others
Regarding raw stats, nothing can top MJ's advantage in ppg and scoring titles.. regarding advanced stats, nothing tops MJ's advantage in plus-minus, PER, and WS/48, while only MJ is top 2 in all the "big 4" advanced box stats - BPM, VORP, PER, WS/48
MJ also tops Lebron in clutch shooting efficiency, overall clutch stats, change in teammate stats, assisted rate, double-teams attracted, jumpshooting efficiency, post efficiency, and many other drivers of winning
5) Lebron played better teams, which explains his championship record
1) Lebron had his own Big 3's and only faced talent deficits in 07', 15', 17' and 18' Finals (losing mostly via sweep or record amount).. the only time he overcame a talent deficit was the 07' ECF, so MJ overcame more talent deficits, and bigger ones.. Ultimately, MJ played in a 2-star vs 2-star format, so those teams can't be compared to the 3-star vs. 3 star format that Lebron played in
2) Facing great teams doesn't prevent you from having great teams yourself that can compete EVENLY/adequately... But Lebron failed to compete adequately because he's 2-5 against the best teams of the era (Spurs/Warriors), including 2 sweeps and 2 record defeats.. Who cares about the 1 time he beat the warriors or Spurs when he lost 5 times to them?
3) Lebron was compensated for his perceived Finals "comp" by getting more Finals chances via weaker comp in the first 3 rounds (weak conference)