Broussard: Lebron still best, Giannis 2nd

[Marchesk]

Because Giannis respects Lebron too much. :lol

Kawhi is third because he takes every fourth game off, Harden doesn't play enough defense, and AD doesn't bring the ball up.

Nick Wright agrees, saying that if you already had a great team, the one player you would add to it would be Lebron. Hmmm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLKtVyQv170

[FireDavidKahn]

Smart man:bowdown: :bowdown:

[East River Livn']

Is Kawhi still coming doe?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Not "bringing up the ball" is a weak argument. Might as well remove centers/bigs off the GOAT list.

That being said, Harden does have a case for BITW. He's probably been the best offensive player thus far and on defense, average.

AD/Bron/Harden/Giannis. Throw Kawhi in there too if you're using last years playoffs as the barometer.

[FireDavidKahn]

Not "bringing up the ball" is a weak argument. Might as well remove centers/bigs off the GOAT list.

That being said, Harden does have a case for best player. He's probably been the best offensive player thus far and on defense, average.

AD/Bron/Harden/Giannis. Throw Kawhi in there too if you're using last years playoffs as the barometer.
There is some truth to it. If you took an equally talented wing vs. an equally talented big man then the wing will have more impact on a team considering they have the ball a lot more and can orchestrate an offense. On the flip side big men have way more impact on defense.

But you NEED an elite wing to win, plain and simple.

[Marchesk]

Shannon getting excited about Lebron's league-leading Real Plus-Minus:

https://youtu.be/8eY6lR36zDc?t=382

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

There is some truth to it. If you took an equally talented wing vs. an equally talented big man then the wing will have more impact on a team considering they have the ball a lot more and can orchestrate an offense. On the flip side big men have way more impact on defense.

But you NEED an elite wing to win, plain and simple.

I disagree.

Depends on whether the team funnels their offense thru the big.

While true, a perimeter player does bring the ball up and "initiates" the offense, he is still subordinate to the big. The centerpiece of it all. There's no Point A without B, and vice versa.

With Davis though? Dude isn't some bird-fed big. He can take you from the triple threat, post you up from 20 feet or just shoot the 3. As versatile a player his size has ever been. The defensive side of the ball is the real difference maker though.

No point in isolating technicalities, and ignoring overall impact.

[Mr Feeny]

Lebron isnt really in the discussion at the moment. Davis is heads and shoulders above him and he's on his own team. Giannis is better than both and Kawhi and Harden are in the conversation.

[FireDavidKahn]

I disagree.

Depends on whether the team funnels their offense thru the big.

While true, a perimeter player does bring the ball up and "initiates" the offense, he is still subordinate to the big. The centerpiece of it all. There's no Point A without B, and vice versa.

With Davis though? Dude isn't some bird-fed big. He can take you from the triple threat, post you up from 20 feet or just shoot the 3. As versatile a player his size has ever been. The defensive side of the ball is the real difference maker though.

No point in isolating technicalities, and ignoring overall impact.

Yes Davis is an amazing scorer but he couldn't lead an offense like an elite wing can. Just look at what he accomplished in NO. He barely did anything and he's been elite for a long time. It's a huge reason why people shit on KAT...then when he finally got an all-star wing we were on pace for the 3rd seed in the West until Butler got hurt.

A long time ago big men could do it but not anymore with the new rules.

When is the last time a team won a chip without an elite wing? The Mavs in 2011 then ??? The Pistons?

[Wally450]

Harden is 2nd after LeBron. There's even a case for Harden being #1.

[Manny98]

Been the best since 06, 14 years.:hammertime:

https://i.postimg.cc/Wzrh9SnN/tenor-16.gif

[LAmbruh]

Been the best since 06, 14 years.:hammertime:

https://i.postimg.cc/Wzrh9SnN/tenor-16.gif
https://i.postimg.cc/Wzrh9SnN/tenor-16.gif

[Marchesk]

https://media1.tenor.com/images/f18b3d0d8a52ff30354b08c6b455d1f7/tenor.gif

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Yes Davis is an amazing scorer but he couldn't lead an offense like an elite wing can. Just look at what he accomplished in NO. He barely did anything and he's been elite for a long time. It's a huge reason why people shit on KAT...then when he finally got an all-star wing we were on pace for the 3rd seed in the West until Butler got hurt.

A long time ago big men could do it but not anymore with the new rules.

When is the last time a team won a chip without an elite wing? The Mavs in 2011 then ??? The Pistons?

Not true.

When healthy, AD was the main reason NOL had good offenses. Look at the 2 years his teams made the postseason. They were rated Top 10 in ORTG. Again, that's with average help and no "elite wings".

Yeah...today's game is perimeter saturated. Just like the "model for success" is with shooting. I don't deny that.

But I also think its stupid to blame AD for playing the way he does. For being versatile like he is....because the talent around him wasn't as good as his opponents. He was eliminated by 2 GSW teams that were clear favorites AND had better talent.

Won't even get into his injuries...

Also to your point about "elite wings". A number of them have done nothing. And on the flipside, those that did, needed a TON of help. It's not a black and white thing like you're arguing.

[DMAVS41]

Yes Davis is an amazing scorer but he couldn't lead an offense like an elite wing can. Just look at what he accomplished in NO. He barely did anything and he's been elite for a long time. It's a huge reason why people shit on KAT...then when he finally got an all-star wing we were on pace for the 3rd seed in the West until Butler got hurt.

A long time ago big men could do it but not anymore with the new rules.

When is the last time a team won a chip without an elite wing? The Mavs in 2011 then ??? The Pistons?

Yea, but judging elite players on how well they do on average or poor teams seems really stupid to begin with.

I want to know what a guy like KAT can do when he gets a real team around him...I don't care all that much about the other stuff...and I doubt anyone else really does either.

So I agree with you that a wing can do more in the narrow way you are talking, but an elite wing isn't doing anything of note without a real team either....so it is kind of a pointless distinction unless we really care about raising the floor of a team with no chance to win.

[FireDavidKahn]

Not true.

When healthy, AD was the main reason NOL had good offenses. Look at the 2 years his teams made the postseason. They were rated Top 10 in ORTG. Again, that's with average help and no "elite wings".

Yeah...today's game is perimeter saturated. Just like the "model for success" is with shooting. I don't deny that.

But I also think its stupid to blame AD for playing the way he does. For being versatile like he is....because the talent around him wasn't as good as his opponents. He was eliminated by 2 GSW teams that were clear favorites AND had better talent.

Won't even get into his injuries...

Also to your point about "elite wings". A number of them have done nothing. And on the flipside, those that did, needed a TON of help. It's not a black and white thing like you're arguing.
I'm not arguing that it's black and white and by "elite wing" I more mean superstar.

Regardless, we'll just have to agree to disagree. You take LeBron off the Lakers and they become much worse just like removing AD would make them much worse as well. They both have impact in drastically different ways and pairing a superstar big with a superstar wing is almost unfair since you get the best of both worlds.

I am NOT arguing that AD sucks or anything close to that. Both he and LeBron will be top 10 MVP candidates at WORST. Just remember in this conversation everything is relative to the best of the best of the league.

[FireDavidKahn]

Yea, but judging elite players on how well they do on average or poor teams seems really stupid to begin with.

I want to know what a guy like KAT can do when he gets a real team around him...I don't care all that much about the other stuff...and I doubt anyone else really does either.

So I agree with you that a wing can do more in the narrow way you are talking, but an elite wing isn't doing anything of note without a real team either....so it is kind of a pointless distinction unless we really care about raising the floor of a team with no chance to win.
Yes, it was my fault for making it seem like I was talking like it's black and white. Hopefully I clarified it better with my previous post.

[DMAVS41]

Yes, it was my fault for making it seem like I was talking like it's black and white. Hopefully I clarified it better with my previous post.

Right, a player like Lebron raises the floor of a team more than Davis.

My point would be...does that really matter?

I'd much rather look at what these guys do when they have solid teams around them that make sense.

[Keno]

Been the best since 06, 14 years.:hammertime:

https://i.postimg.cc/Wzrh9SnN/tenor-16.gif
:pimp: :pimp:

[FireDavidKahn]

Right, a player like Lebron raises the floor of a team more than Davis.

My point would be...does that really matter?

I'd much rather look at what these guys do when they have solid teams around them that make sense.
Well, yes, in this case when people keep arguing about who has the bigger impact for the Lakers.

And just like you said


Right, a player like Lebron raises the floor of a team more than Davis.

Which is why I personally believe that LeBron has more impact on this current Lakers team then Davis. As LeBron starts to decline more then obviously it'll be AD but for now IMO LeBron elevates the Lakers more then AD IN A VACUUM.

But AD and LeBron synergize so well together that it's honestly by the slimmest of margins.

ANd thanks for actually recognizing that KAT isn't a complete shit of a player. A lot of people can't get past how horrible his supporting cast has been. I wont debate his defense as it's bad but overall his still has a huge positive impact.

[DMAVS41]

Well, yes, in this case when people keep arguing about who has the bigger impact for the Lakers.

And just like you said



Which is why I personally believe that LeBron has more impact on this current Lakers team then Davis. As LeBron starts to decline more then obviously it'll be AD but for now IMO LeBron elevates the Lakers more then AD IN A VACUUM.

But AD and LeBron synergize so well together that it's honestly by the slimmest of margins.

ANd thanks for actually recognizing that KAT isn't a complete shit of a player. A lot of people can't get past how horrible his supporting cast has been. I wont debate his defense as it's bad but overall his still has a huge positive impact.

I was talking more to the generalities of the discussion. I don't care, at all, about who people think is more important between Lebron and Davis.

KAT is a great example. He's clearly an elite player, not perfect or anything, but for sure great.

He doesn't have much of a team...so I'm not going to really care all that much that he's losing when everyone is going to ultimately lose with a team like that.

You get him a real team and they keep losing...then we can say something. But until then...even with an improved Wiggins...it just isn't great. So does it really matter if they miss the playoffs or someone else gets them into round 1 and they get smoked?

My answer is, not much...I want to see how good these guys are while playing on quality teams competing for titles.

[PickernRoller]

The paid marketers still claiming Brans corpse is the best in the league.

Love me some sheeple all the way to the bank.

I also heard you can buy a beachfront property in the middle of the Sahara desert.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I'm not arguing that it's black and white and by "elite wing" I more mean superstar.

Regardless, we'll just have to agree to disagree. You take LeBron off the Lakers and they become much worse just like removing AD would make them much worse as well. They both have impact in drastically different ways and pairing a superstar big with a superstar wing is almost unfair since you get the best of both worlds.

I am NOT arguing that AD sucks or anything close to that. Both he and LeBron will be top 10 MVP candidates at WORST. Just remember in this conversation everything is relative to the best of the best of the league.

Well, we agree for the most part.

What I don't agree with is the narrative on Davis. And his "inability" to bring the ball up the court. Its a misnomer for one. But its also a TEAM game. For a guy with Davis' impact and role that "flaw" is irrelevant.

[MaxPlayer]

One of the primary added points of value for a "point forward" is that he removes the burden of playmaking from the 1-spot, allowing the team to insert a scoring guard and/or defensive specialist in that spot instead.

[Rudeboy3]

I don

[Gil Renard]

Been the best since 06, 14 years.:hammertime:

https://i.postimg.cc/Wzrh9SnN/tenor-16.gif

:cheers: :banana: :rockon:

[Rico2016]

I am excited to see how far LeBron can mold Anthony Davis into an MVP caliber player. I won't be surprised to see AD win an MVP next year, in fact I am predicting he will. Under the tutelage of LeBron any players have had their best, successful careers and Davis is no exception.

[LostCause]

Lol @ Nick Wright agrees

But nah Giannis is comfortably the best player in the NBA atm. Especially with his 3-ball getting better