Derrick Rose on 3 knee surguries is still putting up 20 pts and 12 assists

[nathanjizzle]

and carrying his team to victory over a good team. Hall of famer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fbycj2kn8Vk

[Draz]

Man. If healthy this guy would have been such a force on the league. I wish him and Brandon Roy were healthy throughout their careers.

[Gil Renard]

Marginalizing Blake and leading his team to a 34 win pace when they won 41 last season. The Rose effect. :lol

[coin24]

Marginalizing Blake and leading his team to a 34 win pace when they won 41 last season. The Rose effect. :lol


:sleeping :sleeping


Cringe Simon


Rose looked great out there today, not that you can afford to watch games broke ass

[Detroit]

Marginalizing Blake and leading his team to a 34 win pace when they won 41 last season. The Rose effect. :lol

:oldlol: just for that, I fixed your username for you.

[PeroAntic]

Wheels is too busy sucking Lebron's peanut sized dick to watch basketball, otherwise he'd know that Rose plays 20 minutes per game and hardly shares the floor with Blake.

[72-10]

And 12 assists to only 2 turnovers.:applause: +.1

He didn't play much defense apparently, but notice how he also did well in the rebounding dept., got 4 rebounds as both a guard and a reserve, that's pretty good.

[warriorfan]

Wheels is too busy sucking Lebron's peanut sized dick to watch basketball, otherwise he'd know that Rose plays 20 minutes per game and hardly shares the floor with Blake.

:roll:

[RRR3]

20 points on 21 shots. The god.

[superduper]

20 points on 21 shots. The god.

That logic is so flawed.

A player can have 20pts on 10/20 shooting yet thats 50% FG the stat all you Bransexuals jerk to is contradicting itself.

Can't make Brantard low iq up.

[RRR3]

That logic is so flawed.

A player can have 20pts on 10/20 shooting yet thats 50% FG the stat all you Bransexuals jerk to is contradicting itself.

Can't make Brantard low iq up.
You

[superduper]

[QUOTE=RRR3]You

[RRR3]

I think 20 points on 21 shots is good
:facepalm

[Smoke117]

That logic is so flawed.

A player can have 20pts on 10/20 shooting yet thats 50% FG the stat all you Bransexuals jerk to is contradicting itself.

Can't make Brantard low iq up.

And overall that'd be terrible efficiency game in game out, moron. That means you are never getting to the line and are never hitting a 3pter. Your efficiency would be much worse than the league average. Calling other people low IQ when you are so fukking stupid is hilarious.

[Lebron6]

:facepalm
Your hero Bran choked in 2011 Finals. :coleman:

[RRR3]

Your hero Bran choked in 2011 Finals. :coleman:
Another lame alt.

[Lebron6]

Another lame alt.
:biggums:

LeFraud.

:biggums:

[superduper]

And overall that'd be terrible efficiency game in game out, moron. That means you are never getting to the line and are never hitting a 3pter. Your efficiency would be much worse than the league average. Calling other people low IQ when you are so fukking stupid is hilarious.

But FG% doesnt account for that stuff, TS% does. No one uses TS as seriously as they use FG on here.

When people like you are hating on Harden are you considering his TS or just his 10/24 type of FG?

You can call me low iq call you want doesnt make you any less of a dumbass :oldlol:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

And overall that'd be terrible efficiency game in game out, moron. That means you are never getting to the line and are never hitting a 3pter. Your efficiency would be much worse than the league average. Calling other people low IQ when you are so fukking stupid is hilarious.

League wide efficiency is 45%FG goofy.

So no, it wouldn't be "much worse" than league average.

[PeroAntic]

I love how Derrick filters out real basketball fans from boxscore watchers, statnerds and Bransexuals. Guy put on a show last night but these clowns are talking about shots taken.

He didn't have a single freethrow and he gets to the rim every possession. The anti-Harden:bowdown:

[Smoke117]

League wide efficiency is 45%FG goofy.

So no, it wouldn't be "much worse" than league average.

Field goal Percentage doesn't matter. TS% is what matters. Averaging 1.0 point per shot is awful efficiency. Bringing up fg% is just hilariously stupid considering how many 3pters are taken now. At least use EFG%, goofy.

[LoneyROY7]

I love how Derrick filters out real basketball fans from boxscore watchers, statnerds and Bransexuals. Guy put on a show last night but these clowns are talking about shots taken.

He didn't have a single freethrow and he gets to the rim every possession. The anti-Harden:bowdown:

Yep. Comparing their impact and production, he's definitely the anti-Harden. :oldlol: :oldlol:

[RRR3]

Yep. Comparing their impact and production, he's definitely the anti-Harden. :oldlol: :oldlol:
:yaohappy:

[RRR3]

Fun fact.

In games the pistons have won Rose has a TS of 47.0%

Dat impact

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Field goal Percentage doesn't matter. TS% is what matters. Averaging 1.0 point per shot is awful efficiency. Bringing up fg% is just hilariously stupid considering how many 3pters are taken now. At least use EFG%, goofy.

Right.

FG% doesn't matter, and yet its used with basically all box score stats.

Let me know when you wake up from that fantasy world you're living in.

[PeroAntic]

Yep. Comparing their impact and production, he's definitely the anti-Harden. :oldlol: :oldlol:
Yeah, keep thinking thats the difference, loser:oldlol: real fans know whats up ;)

[Gil Renard]

Yep. Comparing their impact and production, he's definitely the anti-Harden. :oldlol: :oldlol:

:roll:

PeroAnus taking another L :lol

[Turbo Slayer]

Yeah, keep thinking thats the difference, loser:oldlol: real fans know whats up ;)
I hope Derrick Rose wins a ring. :applause:

[AirTupac]

Its crazy how losers like RRR3 are always wrong. Just watch the game. Pistons are only decent when Rose is playing. Its so clear. The team is abysmal and solely rely on a past his prime D.Rose who has impressive runs.

[superduper]

NOBODY talks about Harden and Kobe's TS% when hating on them but apparently its important now all of a sudden :oldlol: (which it rightfully should be because FG% is a horribly flawed stat)

[Smoke117]

Right.

FG% doesn't matter, and yet its used with basically all box score stats.

Let me know when you wake up from that fantasy world you're living in.

So basically, you can't refute what I said so just say stupid nonsense. Very ish response. :oldlol:

[superduper]

Its crazy how losers like RRR3 are always wrong. Just watch the game. Pistons are only decent when Rose is playing. Its so clear. The team is abysmal and solely rely on a past his prime D.Rose who has impressive runs.

Nah bro VORP DBPM and FG%!! Only GENIUSES watch basketball on statsheets.

[1987_Lakers]

Rose went from being the youngest player to win MVP to now averaging 16 PPG on 55 TS%. WTF is there to brag about? Dude is an afterthought now.

[RRR3]

Fun fact.

In games the pistons have won Rose has a TS of 47.0%

Dat impact
Pero?

[AirTupac]

Rose went from being the youngest player to win MVP to now averaging 16 PPG on 55 TS%. WTF is there to brag about? Dude is an afterthought now.


The guy was out of the league almost due to injuries. You can give someone credit for finding himself and putting together a couple of healthy seasons after everything he's been through. The fvck?

[Turbo Slayer]

Rose went from being the youngest player to win MVP to now averaging 16 PPG on 55 TS%. WTF is there to brag about? Dude is an afterthought now.
youre kinda right :(

[1987_Lakers]

The guy was out of the league almost due to injuries. You can give someone credit for finding himself and putting together a couple of healthy seasons after everything he's been through. The fvck?

Who cares? Dude is a rapist.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

So basically, you can't refute what I said so just say stupid nonsense. Very ish response. :oldlol:

No. You're just a fukkin illiterate who can't comprehend english.

FG% is still used with box score metrics like ORTG and PER.

If you need me to dumb that down some more, quote me again.

[Turbo Slayer]

Who cares? Dude is a rapist.
Chill man. :biggums:

[PeroAntic]

Pero?
Not worth responding to a boxscore watcher who doesn't see games and reduces impact to ts%

[1987_Lakers]

No. You're just a fukkin illiterate who can't comprehend english.

FG% is still used with box score metrics. Like ORTG and PER.

If you need me to dumb it down for you some more, quote me again.

He's right though, TS% is a much better way to judge efficiency.

[RRR3]

Who cares? Dude is a rapist.
Since when do Kobe fans care about that? :yaohappy:

[1987_Lakers]

Chill man. :biggums:

Since you are young let me educate you.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2015/08/26/derrick-rose-accused-of-gang-raping-ex

[AirTupac]

Who cares? Dude is a rapist.


When did you become a retard bro? :oldlol:

Oh he was accused? Accused? He must have served jail time.

[1987_Lakers]

When did you become a retard bro? :oldlol:

Oh he was accused? Accused? He must have served jail time.

I was a witness, he did it.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

He's right though, TS% is a much better way to judge efficiency.

TS% is better. Ditto with EFG%.

FG% still has its place though. And its used with a lot of advanced stats people recycle on here.

[Turbo Slayer]

Since you are young let me educate you.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2015/08/26/derrick-rose-accused-of-gang-raping-ex
WHATTTTTT???????

:biggums:

I lost alot respect for Rose.

Rose is a great player but damn.:biggums: :eek:

[1987_Lakers]

WHATTTTTT???????

:biggums:

I lost alot respect for Rose.

Rose is a great player but damn.:biggums: :eek:
:cheers:

[PeroAntic]

Rose went from being the youngest player to win MVP to now averaging 16 PPG on 55 TS%. WTF is there to brag about? Dude is an afterthought now.
His TS% in his MVP season was the same as it is now. Per 36 minutes hes better than the MVP season statistically. That alone shows how misleading statistics are.

Even at his best Rose was never about advanced stats. Hes about the clutch, the heart, the leadership and the pizzazz. But these are concepts that are very difficult for statboys to understand.

[AirTupac]

I was a witness, he did it.

What. Explain?

[1987_Lakers]

His TS% in his MVP season was the same as it is now. Per 36 minutes hes better than the MVP season statistically. That alone shows how misleading statistics are.

Even at his best Rose was never about advanced stats. Hes about the clutch, the heart, the leadership and the pizzazz. But these are concepts that are very difficult for statboys to understand.

To be honest, even when he won MVP he still got criticized for his lack of efficiency. Even though he won MVP, nobody really considered him a top 5 player. He just happened to have a breakout season and his team was the #1 seed in the East, so they gave it to him. I was never really a fan of his game even before the injuries.

[RRR3]

His TS% in his MVP season was the same as it is now. Per 36 minutes hes better than the MVP season statistically. That alone shows how misleading statistics are.

Even at his best Rose was never about advanced stats. Hes about the clutch, the heart, the leadership and the pizzazz. But these are concepts that are very difficult for statboys to understand.
Yep it was amazing leadership when he disappeared from his team.

[DMAVS41]

His TS% in his MVP season was the same as it is now. Per 36 minutes hes better than the MVP season statistically. That alone shows how misleading statistics are.

Even at his best Rose was never about advanced stats. Hes about the clutch, the heart, the leadership and the pizzazz. But these are concepts that are very difficult for statboys to understand.

Right...because he was over-rated by people thinking MVP = best player...which he never was in the real conversation for because of flaws in his game...not really a knock given how young he was back then. It takes time...

He won MVP because he was great and his team exceeded expectations and it was a perfect counter-narrative to the Heat.

The Bulls were +6.0 points per 100 without Rose on the court. Hard to discount just how important that was for winning games.

[PeroAntic]

Right...because he was over-rated by people thinking MVP = best player...which he never was in the real conversation for because of flaws in his game...not really a knock given how young he was back then. It takes time...

He won MVP because he was great and his team exceeded expectations and it was a perfect counter-narrative to the Heat.

The Bulls were +6.0 points per 100 without Rose on the court. Hard to discount just how important that was for winning games.
If he won MVP then, best player or not, he cant be anything but a star now.

Anyone watching Pistons games knows what he means to the team, he is orchestrating their play, pushing the tempo and closing games for them. They put the ball in his hands and he already has several double digit assists games. In the Knicks triangle he had one the whole season.

Point is Rose is similar to Kobe with his impact. He is neither chucking nor statpadding, he does what needs to be done to win, wills his team to victory. In a league full of manufactured stars hes one of the few authentic guys.

[DMAVS41]

If he won MVP then, best player or not, he cant be anything but a star now.

Anyone watching Pistons games knows what he means to the team, he is orchestrating their play, pushing the tempo and closing games for them. They put the ball in his hands and he already has several double digit assists games. In the Knicks triangle he had one the whole season.

Point is Rose is similar to Kobe with his impact. He is neither chucking nor statpadding, he does what needs to be done to win, wills his team to victory. In a league full of manufactured stars hes one of the few authentic guys.

We probably have different definitions of "star"...but from when I've watched this year...Rose has played really well and has made a clear positive impact on the Pistons.

[RRR3]

If he won MVP then, best player or not, he cant be anything but a star now.

Anyone watching Pistons games knows what he means to the team, he is orchestrating their play, pushing the tempo and closing games for them. They put the ball in his hands and he already has several double digit assists games. In the Knicks triangle he had one the whole season.

Point is Rose is similar to Kobe with his impact. He is neither chucking nor statpadding, he does what needs to be done to win, wills his team to victory. In a league full of manufactured stars hes one of the few authentic guys.
So was a Rose a “star” from 2013-18?


He was legit bad most of that time.

[Pointguard]

Right...because he was over-rated by people thinking MVP = best player...which he never was in the real conversation for because of flaws in his game...not really a knock given how young he was back then. It takes time...
Rose was the best player in the league in the fourth quarter, and against elite teams, and for dominating the elite teams in the fourth quarter. He had the best record that year with a young team, with no talent on the bench, no teammate in the top ten of any category. You can point to flaws but name another player that has ever lead a very young team to the best record with a coach that has been proven to be mediocre without Rose. And Rose controlled the game as good as any player did that year.

Rose won because Not one of the elite teams beat Chicago after Dec.12th when the Bulls had like the eight best record in the league at that time. When the games mattered most they absolutely dominated the best teams. Not one other MVP candidate can even say they outplayed Rose after Dec. in the 4th quarter head to head. He did so with a young and injured team with no level B athletes, no consistent shooters, and very few offensive sets.




The Bulls were +6.0 points per 100 without Rose on the court. Hard to discount just how important that was for winning games.
There is no way you can watch game dynamics and possibly think you are making a point here. No way at all.

Plus Rose was far ahead of any player on his team as BPM is concerned. The goal of the Bulls was keep the game close and let Rose win the game. He victimized all the other MVP candidates with that strategy after Dec. of that year.

[Uncle Drew]

Since you are young let me educate you.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2015/08/26/derrick-rose-accused-of-gang-raping-ex
Rose and his fans, lowest of the low. Only rapists support rapists.

[PeroAntic]

[QUOTE=RRR3]So was a Rose a

[nathanjizzle]

Right...because he was over-rated by people thinking MVP

he was the best player that season. who performed better than derrick rose that season? lebron?:roll: dirk?:roll: ..i want to know who you believe the best player was that season since youre willing to discredit rose without stating another player. ive already given you the important stats that shows rose was carrying his team in clutch time with huge win records over any player in the league. and i distinctly remember you getting so butthurt when the stats revealed that dirk was bullshit compared to rose in this category. Ill pull it up if you need a refresher why youre a moron.

[MaxPlayer]

Wrong.

In his post-ACL Bulls days, he tried to play like pre-ACL Rose. There were periods where he did, but it made him reinjure himself over and over and start from the beginning.

At NY he started changing his style to more finesse based, but that team was a mess, had no defence, shit coaching, triangle, Melo ballstopping etc. Rose did what he could in that setting, scoring efficiently as he was learning to play in a different way, but had a marginal role.

But it was after the Cavs injury and retirement contemplation that he finally transitioned to the new Rose, who can still control the game but uses spacing and watered down defence to probe into the paint, not burst in recklessly.

In short, you don't know shit about Rose as a player. Only his fans and true basketball followers (not boxscore watchers) know.:rockon:

I mean, you say "wrong" and then explain why he's not.

Still, kudos to Rose for re-inventing his game and becoming an effective player again.

[DMAVS41]

he was the best player that season. who performed better than derrick rose that season? lebron?:roll: dirk?:roll: ..i want to know who you believe the best player was that season since youre willing to discredit rose without stating another player. ive already given you the important stats that shows rose was carrying his team in clutch time with huge win records over any player in the league. and i distinctly remember you getting so butthurt when the stats revealed that dirk was bullshit compared to rose in this category. Ill pull it up if you need a refresher why youre a moron.

Look at how emotional you are.

Lebron/Dirk/Wade/Howard...all better players than Rose in 11.

Or did you forget Rose's dreadful ECF where he fell apart and routinely choked in the biggest games of the year.

44% TS and multiple chokes...in the biggest games of the year...and you think that was better than Dirk? Again, I know you aren't trolling...so I guess you are just stupid.

What on earth are you talking about? Nobody thinks Rose was the best player in the league reflecting back on 2011 other than his idiotic fans like you that are so out of touch with reality...that it hurts my brain.

[DMAVS41]

Rose was the best player in the league in the fourth quarter, and against elite teams, and for dominating the elite teams in the fourth quarter. He had the best record that year with a young team, with no talent on the bench, no teammate in the top ten of any category. You can point to flaws but name another player that has ever lead a very young team to the best record with a coach that has been proven to be mediocre without Rose. And Rose controlled the game as good as any player did that year.

Rose won because Not one of the elite teams beat Chicago after Dec.12th when the Bulls had like the eight best record in the league at that time. When the games mattered most they absolutely dominated the best teams. Not one other MVP candidate can even say they outplayed Rose after Dec. in the 4th quarter head to head. He did so with a young and injured team with no level B athletes, no consistent shooters, and very few offensive sets.



There is no way you can watch game dynamics and possibly think you are making a point here. No way at all.

Plus Rose was far ahead of any player on his team as BPM is concerned. The goal of the Bulls was keep the game close and let Rose win the game. He victimized all the other MVP candidates with that strategy after Dec. of that year.

Literally none of this even makes a point.

MVP does not equal best player. I agree Rose deserved MVP...he was, however, not the best player overall in 2011...and that was abundantly clear.

Also, you should educate yourself on the power of having a bench that torches teams the way the Bulls did in 11 and 12...to argue that doesn't play a big role in winning regular season games is the height of ignorance.

It doesn't mean Rose wasn't the best player on his team...nor does it mean he wasn't the most important...but having that luxury is a huge reason why they won as much as they did.

[stalkerforlife]

Look at how emotional you are.

Lebron/Dirk/Wade/Howard...all better players than Rose in 11.

Or did you forget Rose's dreadful ECF where he fell apart and routinely choked in the biggest games of the year.

44% TS and multiple chokes...in the biggest games of the year...and you think that was better than Dirk? Again, I know you aren't trolling...so I guess you are just stupid.

What on earth are you talking about? Nobody thinks Rose was the best player in the league reflecting back on 2011 other than his idiotic fans like you that are so out of touch with reality...that it hurts my brain.

MVP is a regular season award, you idiot.

Rose lifted a team with sub-par talent to 62 wins.

[DMAVS41]

MVP is a regular season award, you idiot.

Rose lifted a team with sub-par talent to 62 wins.

And, like I said...Rose deserved MVP....he just wasn't the best player in the league back in 2011.

My god people...learn to ****ing read.

Also, generally subpar casts don't roast other teams to the tune of +6 points per 100 possessions. In case you care about reality...

[Pointguard]

Literally none of this even makes a point.
Debate the point. I was super clear.




MVP does not equal best player. I agree Rose deserved MVP...he was, however, not the best player overall in 2011...and that was abundantly clear.

I stated very clearly what he was best at. Are you debating those points? Stat wise only Lebron, Wade and Howard have an argument.

1.Lebron and Wade were on a super team with super talent. Had a worse record, sucked against the better teams, and a healthy veteran team.

2.Howard had two teams and simply lacked leadership, smarts and heart.


Also, you should educate yourself on the power of having a bench that torches teams the way the Bulls did in 11 and 12...to argue that doesn't play a big role in winning regular season games is the height of ignorance.
And where did I say they didn't play a big role, Mr. intelligence? I said they were without talent from the bench. Those guys who often had to start back then, all had trouble making it on bad teams the rest of their careers.


It doesn't mean Rose wasn't the best player on his team...nor does it mean he wasn't the most important...but having that luxury is a huge reason why they won as much as they did.
Luxury is exactly why I have him as the best player that year. No athletes, nobody in the top ten in any category, coach was brand new, very few offensive sets run, basically a young team with a ton of injuries. No other player has ever had the best record with those "luxuries."

[DMAVS41]

Debate the point. I was super clear.


I stated very clearly what he was best at. Are you debating those points? Stat wise only Lebron, Wade and Howard have an argument.

1.Lebron and Wade were on a super team with super talent. Had a worse record, sucked against the better teams, and a healthy veteran team.

2.Howard had two teams and simply lacked leadership, smarts and heart.

And where did I say they didn't play a big role, Mr. intelligence? I said they were without talent from the bench. Those guys who often had to start back then, all had trouble making it on bad teams the rest of their careers.

Luxury is exactly why I have him as the best player that year. No athletes, nobody in the top ten in any category, coach was brand new, very few offensive sets run, basically a young team with a ton of injuries. No other player has ever had the best record with those "luxuries."

If you are just talking about the regular season...you are referencing MVP...which you already know...I thought Rose deserved.

If you are talking about the best player...which you claim to be...that includes the playoffs...as you don't earn the title of best player in the league by solely the regular season.

So, no...Rose was not the best player in 11...and it wasn't particularly close.

[jayfan]

Marginalizing Blake and leading his team to a 34 win pace when they won 41 last season. The Rose effect. :lol

That's not what's happening. (though it was a concern of mine going into the season).

Blake is hurt. He doesn't have the same quickness, lift, explosion, energy...he had last year.



.

[Smoke117]

MVP is a regular season award, you idiot.

Rose lifted a team with sub-par talent to 62 wins.

Rose made them the best defensive team in the league did he?

[nathanjizzle]

Look at how emotional you are.

Lebron/Dirk/Wade/Howard...all better players than Rose in 11.



what a waste of time. Now i have to go back and find the stats i provided to you before why d rose played better than all of them that season. Heres just one for lebron.

"superior numbers like rose winning 14-7 against the top 8 teams in the league and lebron losing 7-11. rose even won there last 12 straight. while lebron lost most of the last 9.

rose even scoring more averaging 28 points a game than lebron."

in short, against the top 8 teams, rose averaged 28 pts a game and had a 14-7 record, While lebron had something like 25 points but a 7-11 record. The most telling stat was the clutchtime stats for that year which blew lebron out of the water. But somehow lebrons the better player that year? if efficiency makes you the better player than fine. D Rose at 31 years old after 3 knee surgeries is a better player than dirk at 31 because rose is more efficient this year! check the stats and am waiting to hear your rebuttal.

https://i.ibb.co/k39VZGx/rosedirk31final.png

[DMAVS41]

what a waste of time. Now i have to go back and find the stats i provided to you before why d rose played better than all of them that season. Heres just one for lebron.

"superior numbers like rose winning 14-7 against the top 8 teams in the league and lebron losing 7-11. rose even won there last 12 straight. while lebron lost most of the last 9.

rose even scoring more averaging 28 points a game than lebron."

in short, against the top 8 teams, rose averaged 28 pts a game and had a 14-7 record, While lebron had something like 25 points but a 7-11 record. The most telling stat was the clutchtime stats for that year which blew lebron out of the water. But somehow lebrons the better player that year? if efficiency makes you the better player than fine. D Rose at 31 years old after 3 knee surgeries is a better player than dirk at 31 because rose is more efficient this year! check the stats and am waiting to hear your rebuttal.

https://i.ibb.co/k39VZGx/rosedirk31final.png

I literally have no idea what you are talking about in most of this.

If you are just talking about the regular season...then you are referencing MVP...and I have repeatedly argued that Rose deserved MVP.

If you are talking about "best player"...then you can't be talking about solely the regular season as nobody earns that label without including the playoffs.

As for the bold. I, again, have no idea what you are talking about. Rose is currently at 55.3% TS...Dirk only had 3 years in his entire career under that number....and 2010 wasn't one of them.

Seriously, I always try to respond to every post referencing me, but you sound deranged and it is very difficult to follow your thoughts.

[Pointguard]

If you are just talking about the regular season...you are referencing MVP...which you already know...I thought Rose deserved.

Rose was the best player during the regular season. Which was the topic of conversation when you were talking about as you said above in post #53: "because he was over-rated by people thinking MVP = best player...which he never was in the real conversation for because of flaws in his game."

You set up the parameters and now are trying to say its something different. MVP means regular season. He was the best player in the regular season. And it wasn't close.

[DMAVS41]

Rose was the best player during the regular season. Which was the topic of conversation when you were talking about as you said above in post #53: "because he was over-rated by people thinking MVP = best player...which he never was in the real conversation for because of flaws in his game."

You set up the parameters and now are trying to say its something different. MVP means regular season. He was the best player in the regular season. And it wasn't close.

No, I'm not.

Saying someone deserved MVP is not the same as saying they were the best player...even just limiting the conversation for a year to just the regular season...which honestly doesn't make sense.

Rose was too ball dominant and not efficient enough...nor good enough defensively...to warrant calling him a "better player"...than the likes of the guys I listed.

We had these arguments back in 2011...and what do you know...the flaws in Rose's game were on display in the playoffs...whereas the guy I told you was better...led his team to the title while playing way better than Rose.

I you want to not count that is evidence...fair enough, but we all watched and we all saw what happened.

And, again, nobody earns the title "best player" in the regular season...because things like a historically elite bench can add a lot of wins to a team. This is where you have to educate yourself. Having a +6 points per 100 bench when Rose was off the court inflated the wins for that team...and then you turn around and give Rose too much credit for it...which led and continues to lead to the over-rating. In reality, that should have been like a 52 win team or so if Rose just had a pretty good "bench" when he left the floor. Take the Mavs...the Mavs were like -5 points per 100 without Dirk...

Do you really not understand how massive that 11 point difference is when it comes to winning games in the regular season? It is enormous. If Dirk had a +6 points per 100 "bench" when he was off the court...the Mavs probably win 65 games...even with them going 2-7 or whatever they did without him.

Conversely, following your logic...I assume you'd take Dirk in 2003 over both Kobe and Shaq...correct? If not, why?

[Pointguard]

And, like I said...Rose deserved MVP....he just wasn't the best player in the league back in 2011.

My god people...learn to ****ing read.

Also, generally subpar casts don't roast other teams to the tune of +6 points per 100 possessions. In case you care about reality...


You set up the parameters and now are acting like everybody else can't read. That's your fault.

LOL @ this +6 points argument. CJ Watson could barely make it on the last place Nets team within 2 years while in his prime: this is when stats just totally have you barking up the wrong tree. When a team blows out other teams a lot its a useless stat and it can't be used as some honest stat at all. That's the only reality here. There is no way you can continually watch games and think you are on to something here. The reality here is you over value stats and don't know how they apply to the game.

Asik, Bogans, Watson weren't good. Korver's shot went south for some reason (Thibes making him play defense was the likely cause). Taj a career bench player but a good one for the most part. Boozer and Noah missed a lot of games and were putrid during the playoffs.

[DMAVS41]

You set up the parameters and now are acting like everybody else can't read. That's your fault.

LOL @ this +6 points argument. CJ Watson could barely make it on the last place Nets team within 2 years while in his prime: this is when stats just totally have you barking up the wrong tree. When a team blows out other teams a lot its a useless stat and it can't be used as some honest stat at all. That's the only reality here. There is no way you can continually watch games and think you are on to something here. The reality here is you over value stats and don't know how they apply to the game.

Asik, Bogans, Watson weren't good. Korver's shot went south for some reason (Thibes making him play defense was the likely cause). Taj a career bench player but a good one for the most part. Boozer and Noah missed a lot of games and were putrid during the playoffs.

Nobody refers to "best player" and is only talking about the regular season...it doesn't even compute as you prove yourself in the playoffs...not winning regular-season games against weak competition. Has nothing to do with setting parameters as people use MVP for that distinction.

If you are going to argue that the Bulls without Rose weren't roasting teams for both 11 and 12...you simply didn't watch or can't read. To say those guys "weren't good" when they did things very few teams ever did without their star...is idiotic.

What you could say...and I'd agree with it...is that Rose didn't quite have what it historically takes to win titles in terms of his help... However, his awful performance in the 2011 ECF doesn't help much...as he was dreadful...yet the Bulls were still in pretty much every game going into crunch time...so it is really hard to knock his "help"...when they were good enough to keep it close against the Heat despite their leader crumbling on the big stage.

Again, take Dirk's entire prime...the only time he had a bench have a positive differential was in 2006...and they were an amazing +.2...to say that doesn't matter...again, is about as ignorant as it gets.

[Pointguard]

No, I'm not.

Saying someone deserved MVP is not the same as saying they were the best player...even just limiting the conversation for a year to just the regular season...which honestly doesn't make sense.

Dude, you know full well this was your argument before the playoffs started. Stop acting brand new.


Rose was too ball dominant and not efficient enough...nor good enough defensively...to warrant calling him a "better player"...than the likes of the guys I listed.
Rose dominated the elite point guards that year unlike any of the other candidates ever did to their positions. The elite PG's (Deron, Nash, Rondo, Paul) shot 38% against Rose. He lead PG's in blocks, was second in PG rebounding, and controlled the game better than any of the guys you listed. All of that I listed is part of defense. Rose was the best defensive guard on the team that had the best perimeter defense. Howard is the only one you can definitely say was better.


We had these arguments back in 2011...and what do you know...the flaws in Rose's game were on display in the playoffs...whereas the guy I told you was better...led his team to the title while playing way better than Rose.
Once again, the flaws in Thibes game plan were on display. Toronto threw the kitchen sink at Giannis but he's in a league of his own right now.


I you want to not count that is evidence...fair enough, but we all watched and we all saw what happened.
Its up to a coach to teach how players are to break a trap. The team had no response to that. None of his teammates could step up.


And, again, nobody earns the title "best player" in the regular season...because things like a historically elite bench can add a lot of wins to a team. This is where you have to educate yourself. Having a +6 points per 100 bench when Rose was off the court inflated the wins for that team...and then you turn around and give Rose too much credit for it...which led and continues to lead to the over-rating. In reality, that should have been like a 52 win team or so if Rose just had a pretty good "bench" when he left the floor. Take the Mavs...the Mavs were like -5 points per 100 without Dirk...

LOL, Giannis is easily the best player in the game right now. He's better than Kawhi. Eye test, common sense, and stats. If teams weren't allowed to triple team players, Giannis is much better than Kawhi.

You are simply incorrigible if you are still bringing up that -6 stat.




Do you really not understand how massive that 11 point difference is when it comes to winning games in the regular season? It is enormous. If Dirk had a +6 points per 100 "bench" when he was off the court...the Mavs probably win 65 games...even with them going 2-7 or whatever they did without him.

Conversely, following your logic...I assume you'd take Dirk in 2003 over both Kobe and Shaq...correct? If not, why?

:lol its was a dumb mistake. You don't have to die with it. An understanding person knows that a person is supposed to be in front of the stat, not behind it. There is no one advanced stat that sits alone and can lead a person with understanding.

[DMAVS41]

I disagree with 90% of what you say...as I did back then.

I was proven right and you were proven wrong...and it has only gotten worse for you over time.

Simple as that.

:cheers:

[Pointguard]

If you are going to argue that the Bulls without Rose weren't roasting teams for both 11 and 12...you simply didn't watch or can't read. To say those guys "weren't good" when they did things very few teams ever did without their star...is idiotic.

In '11 Rose missed one game. ??? . In '12 they barely won 2 games against a near 500 team. ????



What you could say...and I'd agree with it...is that Rose didn't quite have what it historically takes to win titles in terms of his help... However, his awful performance in the 2011 ECF doesn't help much...as he was dreadful...yet the Bulls were still in pretty much every game going into crunch time...so it is really hard to knock his "help"...when they were good enough to keep it close against the Heat despite their leader crumbling on the big stage.

:lol haha, name me the player that made the Heat pay for tripling Rose? Name them to me. Name me the player that stepped up his game? The Heat paid for throwing the sink at Rose. Most professional ball teams can break a trap. The second and third best players on the team were benched the last two games.


Again, take Dirk's entire prime...the only time he had a bench have a positive differential was in 2006...and they were an amazing +.2...to say that doesn't matter...again, is about as ignorant as it gets.
WOW!!!

You do think it was CJ Watson!

[Lebron23]

[QUOTE=RRR3]You

[Pointguard]

I disagree with 90% of what you say...as I did back then.

I was proven right and you were proven wrong...and it has only gotten worse for you over time.

Simple as that.

:cheers:
Over the course of time (which has served me quite well):

Thibes turns out to be a mediocre coach.
In fact had great offensive talent and kind of undeveloped those talents.

D. Howard did indeed show how distant he was to his teams.
The Bulls bench was very weak in terms of talent.
Rose could play without the great athletic advantage.

The hardest thing to do is to win with young players, without much talent, have major injuries, with a coach who can't break a trap, without much height, athleticism, speed or quickness in an age of super teams.

VS

You.

New advanced useless stat.
And haterism beyond your 10,000 negative post on Rose.

[DMAVS41]

Dude...

Dirk went on to win the title and finals MVP...in the very year we were having the debates leading up to the playoffs...playing at a level Rose has never touched.

He's routinely listed as one of the 20 best players of all-time.

Rose, conversely, absolutely crumbled under the pressure in the most important games of the year...and is on the low end of worst possible career path.

In addition, you literally think the following scenarios don't impact winning.

1. Star goes to bench with his team up 5 points. Star comes back in with his team up 8 points.

2. Star goes to bench with his team up 5 points. Star comes back in with his team up 2 points.

Good luck getting through life with that thought process...

[SamuraiSWISH]

Dirk had the worst MVP season of all time

[RRR3]

Dirk had the worst MVP season of all time
No that would be Rose.