Harden right now is better than 87 Jordan

[StrongLurk]

Harden has more points, rebounds, and assists and is scoring much more efficiently than Jordan.

Pace is very similar, Harden last year might have been better as well.

[dreamshake]

Sorry. There's two ends to the game of basketball and Harden only plays one of them.

[3ball]

Harden has more points, rebounds, and assists and is scoring much more efficiently than Jordan.

Pace is very similar as well.

Teammate 3-point attempts per game:

87' Jordan:.. 2
20' Harden:.30


Harden's points require ridiculous spacing and hands-off defense, whereas MJ got his points against no spacing and tough defense

Harden also has a HOF teammate to command his own attention, whereas MJ had nothing - he was the sole focus of the defense

then there's Harden and MJ's defense....

so between the spacing, physical defense, HOF teammates/defensive attention, and individual defensive performance, it's comparison.. MJ destroys Harden... carry on..

[NBAGOAT]

obviously this is not going be well received but this isnt that crazy. People dont have a problem even having 06 kobe or 09 wade over 87 mj

[dreamwarrior]

Sure, but what shoes were Jordan wearing? Every single shoe that Jordan wore during his playing days were vastly inferior to the shoes of the last 10 years. Compared to now they're like Chuck Taylor's. Even with the air bubbles, the shoes had a super stiff sole and many of them had poor ankle support. Jordan also routinely wore high tops which were detrimental to a player at his position as SG's now mostly wear low tops. Imagine Jordan having the comfort, support, and responsiveness of Harden's or Lebron's shoes. He'd have scored 45PPG

[StrongLurk]

obviously this is not going be well received but this isnt that crazy. People dont have a problem even having 06 kobe or 09 wade over 87 mj

Exactly.

MJ was actually on another level of his own 88-93.

I mean, we have Harden putting up almost 40ppg on 54.8 EFG%.

MJ was 37ppg at 48.4 EFG%...

Let's look at PER 100/POSS

Harden in 18-19
48.2/8.9/10 with 2.7 stls

Harden in 19-20
48/7.2/9.1 with 2.4stls

MJ in 86-87
46.4/6.6/5.8 with 3.6 stls

Harden last two years is better all the while scoring more efficiently.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Taking into account the D'antoni "system"? I would still take 87 Jordan.

If Harden does anything remotely similar in the postseason, I'll gladly change my mind.

[mr4speed]

Teammate 3-point attempts per game:

87' Jordan:.. 2
20' Harden:.30


Harden's points require ridiculous spacing and hands-off defense, whereas MJ got his points against no spacing and tough defense

Harden also has a HOF teammate to command his own attention, whereas MJ had nothing - he was the sole focus of the defense

then there's Harden and MJ's defense....

so between the spacing, physical defense, HOF teammates/defensive attention, and individual defensive performance, it's comparison.. MJ destroys Harden... carry on..

Another thing to consider is the advantages players are given on the offensive end today. The "cupping" and "carrying" of the ball is ridiculous and even worse is the "step-back" jumper, which is really a hop, where both feet leave the ground and then are allowed to take another step to gather balance to get off the shot. The traveling call could be made almost every trip down the court. Yes, the game has changed and the rule book ignored. This is another reason why "stats" should not be compared across era's trying to prove player A is greater than player B. No disrespect intended for the players today but, the game has been changed with a conscience effort made for the offensive side in order to gain popularity and promote the idea we are seeing something special IMO.

[StrongLurk]

Taking into account the system D'aNtoni "runs"? I would still take 87 Jordan.

If Harden does anything remotely similar in the postseason, I'll gladly change my mind.

Harden against the Warriors last year
35/7/5.5 with 2.2 steals on 59.4TS%, 53.4 EFG%

Jordan 87 playoffs was swept by the Celtics (no surprise).
35.7/7/6 with 2 steals on 52.9TS%, 42.9 EFG%

So yeah, this thread has proven Harden over the least 120 games or so has been better than 86-87 Jordan.

Idk why people want to fight so much on this. Jordan was only 23 at the time...Jordan isn't invincible.

[Smoke117]

Water is wet.

[And1AllDay]

Sorry. There's two ends to the game of basketball and Harden only plays one of them.

mikes never been a good defender bruh :oldlol: you new to the game of ball? :oldlol:

Mike has zero seasons under 100 def rating, just like harden.

harden career best 103
mike career best 100

not terribly far off if we be real about it

[StrongLurk]

Thread Summary:

Let's look at PER 100/POSS in the regular season. Harden has a sizable advantage on scoring efficiency regarding EFG% and FT%

Harden in 18-19
48.2/8.9/10 with 2.7 stls

Harden in 19-20
48/7.2/9.1 with 2.4stls

MJ in 86-87
46.4/6.6/5.8 with 3.6 stls

Harden against the Warriors last year
35/7/5.5 with 2.2 steals on 59.4TS%, 53.4 EFG%

Jordan 87 playoffs was swept by the Celtics (no surprise).
35.7/7/6 with 2 steals on 52.9TS%, 42.9 EFG%

So yeah, this thread has proven Harden over the least 120 games or so has been better than 86-87 Jordan.

Idk why people want to fight so much on this. Jordan was only 23 at the time...Jordan isn't invincible.

[3ball]

87 Jordan would average 45+ in today's game, so no

harden is weak for only getting 38

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Harden against the Warriors last year
35/7/5.5 with 2.2 steals on 59.4TS%, 53.4 EFG%

Jordan 87 playoffs was swept by the Celtics (no surprise).
35.7/7/6 with 2 steals on 52.9TS%, 42.9 EFG%

So yeah, this thread has proven Harden over the least 120 games or so has been better than 86-87 Jordan.

Idk why people want to fight so much on this. Jordan was only 23 at the time...Jordan isn't invincible.

Your thread hasn't proven anything.

Only that when you see numbers you prematurely ejaculate.

Harden benefits from his teams system. The lack of perimeter rules. And difference in pace. Chicago played around ~95 while this years Rockets team is around ~106.

You could argue that Harden is better, but good look "proving it". Because you haven't done that yet.

[StrongLurk]

87 Jordan would average 45+ in today's game, so no

harden is weak for only getting 38

Wrong, we are using PER 100/POSS to account for pace. Defense wasn't good in 87 so you have nothing to stand on there. Now 96-05 defenses/pace were different so there is a something to think about then...but not 87.

Thread Summary:

Let's look at PER 100/POSS in the regular season. Harden has a sizable advantage on scoring efficiency regarding EFG% and FT%

Harden in 18-19
48.2/8.9/10 with 2.7 stls

Harden in 19-20
48/7.2/9.1 with 2.4stls

MJ in 86-87
46.4/6.6/5.8 with 3.6 stls

Harden against the Warriors last year
35/7/5.5 with 2.2 steals on 59.4TS%, 53.4 EFG%

Jordan 87 playoffs was swept by the Celtics (no surprise).
35.7/7/6 with 2 steals on 52.9TS%, 42.9 EFG%

So yeah, this thread has proven Harden over the least 120 games or so has been better than 86-87 Jordan.

Idk why people want to fight so much on this. Jordan was only 23 at the time...Jordan isn't invincible.

[stalkerforlife]

Teammate 3-point attempts per game:

87' Jordan:.. 2
20' Harden:.30


Harden's points require ridiculous spacing and hands-off defense, whereas MJ got his points against no spacing and tough defense

Harden also has a HOF teammate to command his own attention, whereas MJ had nothing - he was the sole focus of the defense

then there's Harden and MJ's defense....

so between the spacing, physical defense, HOF teammates/defensive attention, and individual defensive performance, it's comparison.. MJ destroys Harden... carry on..

Just. That. Quick.

/thread

Another schooling.

[And1AllDay]

Wrong, we are using PER 100/POSS to account for pace. Defense wasn't good in 87 so you have nothing to stand on there. Now 96-05 defenses/pace were different so there is a something to think about then...but not 87.

Thread Summary:

Let's look at PER 100/POSS in the regular season. Harden has a sizable advantage on scoring efficiency regarding EFG% and FT%

Harden in 18-19
48.2/8.9/10 with 2.7 stls

Harden in 19-20
48/7.2/9.1 with 2.4stls

MJ in 86-87
46.4/6.6/5.8 with 3.6 stls

Harden against the Warriors last year
35/7/5.5 with 2.2 steals on 59.4TS%, 53.4 EFG%

Jordan 87 playoffs was swept by the Celtics (no surprise).
35.7/7/6 with 2 steals on 52.9TS%, 42.9 EFG%

So yeah, this thread has proven Harden over the least 120 games or so has been better than 86-87 Jordan.

Idk why people want to fight so much on this. Jordan was only 23 at the time...Jordan isn't invincible.

issa wrap

[StrongLurk]

Your thread hasn't proven anything.

Only that when you see numbers you prematurely ejaculate.

Harden benefits from his system. The lack of perimeter rules. And the difference in pace. Chicago played around ~95 while this years Rockets team is around ~106.

You could argue that Harden is better. But good look "proving it". Because you haven't done that yet.

Harden's "system"? Bro his system consists of him iso'ing all the time. That's the furthest from a system.

Also, I used PER 100/POSS which removes pace from equation.

Harden's numbers are better and he's way more efficient. He also played a juggernaut in the playoffs last year like 87 MJ and Harden was a little better because he was way more efficient scoring.

Don't give me shit about defense, defense was not good at all in 87. Jesus you act like nobody ever watched basketball back then.

[StrongLurk]

Could you imagine people trying to guard Harden in 87?

They'd be guarding 3 feet inside the three and he would just rain on these guys.

He'd get all the iso's he'd want with the defense rules back then as well.

Why are people so butthurt suggesting a guy scoring 40ppg is better than 23 year old MJ?

Grow up damn.

[And1AllDay]

Could you imagine people trying to guard Harden in 87?

They'd be guarding 3 feet inside the three and he would just rain on these guys.

He'd get all the iso's he'd want with the defense rules back then as well.

Why are people so butthurt suggesting a guy scoring 40ppg is better than 23 year old MJ?

Grow up damn.

imagine people like hornacek an starks on an island vers King harden too

https://i.postimg.cc/Nf8mwPSj/HardenMJ.jpg

[scuzzy]

"D'antoni system luxury" :oldlol:


Ah yes the same one Kobe struggle to have success with despite a stacked roster


Providing clear cut proof Jordan's playstyle would reciprocate that

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Harden's "system"? Bro his system consists of him iso'ing all the time. That's the furthest from a system.

That's my point.

He IS the system.

Jordan in this ERA and on THAT TEAM would annihilate opponents.


Don't give me shit about defense, defense was not good at all in 87. Jesus you act like nobody ever watched basketball back then.

The perimeter defense today is laughable. There's no handchecking and these players now benefit from this sissy crap called "freedom of movement". Its the easiest its probably EVER been for perimeter players.

[3ball]

Wrong, we are using PER 100/POSS to account for pace. Defense wasn't good in 87 so you have nothing to stand on there. Now 96-05 defenses/pace were different so there is a something to think about then...but not 87.

Thread Summary:

Let's look at PER 100/POSS in the regular season. Harden has a sizable advantage on scoring efficiency regarding EFG% and FT%

Harden in 18-19
48.2/8.9/10 with 2.7 stls

Harden in 19-20
48/7.2/9.1 with 2.4stls

MJ in 86-87
46.4/6.6/5.8 with 3.6 stls

Harden against the Warriors last year
35/7/5.5 with 2.2 steals on 59.4TS%, 53.4 EFG%

Jordan 87 playoffs was swept by the Celtics (no surprise).
35.7/7/6 with 2 steals on 52.9TS%, 42.9 EFG%

So yeah, this thread has proven Harden over the least 120 games or so has been better than 86-87 Jordan.

Idk why people want to fight so much on this. Jordan was only 23 at the time...Jordan isn't invincible.
league-wide drtg hit all-time highs for each of the last 4 years - so defense is worse and quick ball-handlers like harden benefit the most (as mj would too)

ultimately, harden's stats require goat spacing, hands off defense, freedom of movement and higher drtg's, while MJ's had no spacing, physical defense, no freedom and lower drtg's... no comparison

[StrongLurk]

That's my point.

He IS the system.

Jordan in this ERA and on THAT TEAM would annihilate opponents.



The perimeter defense today is laughable. There's no handchecking and these players now benefit from this sissy crap called "freedom of movement". Its the easiest its probably EVER been for perimeter players.

This is an admission of loss, you have nothing to really stand on but hyperbole.

You don't see me saying Harden would score 45ppg in 87 because I'm being realistic here.

Harden is simply more efficient scoring the ball than 87 Jordan because he can score from volume threes. He's also a better free throw shooter.

[LAmbruh]

The perimeter defense today is laughable. There's no handchecking and these players now benefit from this sissy crap called "freedom of movement". Its the easiest its probably EVER been for perimeter players.

BWUAAHAHAHAHAHA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIq7ma7c6UE) :roll: :roll:


https://media.giphy.com/media/65ODCwM00NVmEyLsX3/giphy.gif

[StrongLurk]

league-wide drtg hit all-time highs for each of the last 4 years - so defense is worse and quick ball-handlers like harden benefit the most (as mj would too)

ultimately, harden's stats require goat spacing, hands off defense, freedom of movement and higher drtg's, while MJ's had no spacing, physical defense, no freedom and lower drtg's... no comparison

All this is due to the NBA as a whole not being able to shoot past 20 feet efficiently.

That's black mark, not a positive.

Harden is an ISO mastermind who can dominate an era cause he can shoot/finish at elite levels, and also has elite handles/ability to make space.

Thread Summary:

Let's look at PER 100/POSS in the regular season. Harden has a sizable advantage on scoring efficiency regarding EFG% and FT%

Harden in 18-19
48.2/8.9/10 with 2.7 stls

Harden in 19-20
48/7.2/9.1 with 2.4stls

MJ in 86-87
46.4/6.6/5.8 with 3.6 stls

Harden against the Warriors last year
35/7/5.5 with 2.2 steals on 59.4TS%, 53.4 EFG%

Jordan 87 playoffs was swept by the Celtics (no surprise).
35.7/7/6 with 2 steals on 52.9TS%, 42.9 EFG%

So yeah, this thread has proven Harden over the least 120 games or so has been better than 86-87 Jordan.

[LoneyROY7]

I've been noticing a lot of HIGH IQ posting from the OP lately.

:applause: :applause:

[Dray n Klay]

BWUAAHAHAHAHAHA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIq7ma7c6UE) :roll: :roll:


https://media.giphy.com/media/65ODCwM00NVmEyLsX3/giphy.gif
:roll:

[StrongLurk]

I've been noticing a lot of HIGH IQ posting from the OP lately.

:applause: :applause:

Don't get me wrong, I don't like Harden...but I am an objective basketball fan.

I tell the truth.

I win.

[NBAGOAT]

That's my point.

He IS the system.

Jordan in this ERA and on THAT TEAM would annihilate opponents.



The perimeter defense today is laughable. There's no handchecking and these players now benefit from this sissy crap called "freedom of movement". Its the easiest its probably EVER been for perimeter players.

this year you have a bit more of a point but last year the rockets played at a snail's crawl. It's truly wilt esque what harden did last year scoring load wise.

Jordan is better at harden at most things. I highly doubt he masters the stepback 3 like harden did however considering a lot of great 3pt shooters cant. dont think 87 jordan is nearly as good at finding shooters in corners. harden's playmaking is underrated on this forum

This also isnt 2006, a little more handchecking is let go now even with freedom of movement(which applies a lot more to offball play). it doesnt apply as much to harden as say someone like curry anyway since he just takes contested 3 after contested 3 in isolation and drives to the rim with the best foul drawing repertoire ever(yes i used this phrase lol) that would get tons of fts in any era.

yes there are inflated stats but the 80's are not the era of great defense and harden has like a 8pt edge on the next best scorer and most of the rest like doncic and giannis dominate the ball a ton. He's a huge outlier and an all time lvl scorer with any decent data analysis. Everyone knows wilt doesnt average 50 or even 40 in most eras but he's goat lvl because of how dominant his scoring edge was.

Edit: I get it people are dumbfounded he can dominate like this with like 5 moves when jordan/kobe had like 20 and default to the easy perimeter era talking point. Thing is even KD hasnt come close to these scoring rates in the same era, no one questions him in these talks. As some friends have told me, he's "solved" individual offense.

[scuzzy]

BWUAAHAHAHAHAHA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIq7ma7c6UE) :roll: :roll:


https://media.giphy.com/media/65ODCwM00NVmEyLsX3/giphy.gif
https://i.postimg.cc/htGrTmNf/2h3p1rahzt441.jpg

[LoneyROY7]

https://i.postimg.cc/Nf8mwPSj/HardenMJ.jpg

YEESSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!

:roll: :roll: :roll:

:hammertime: :hammertime:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

This is an admission of loss, you have nothing to really stand on but hyperbole.

Except that Freedom of Movement is actually a rule. And handchecking is really banned.

Good job on the W, bud. Your prize is keeping your head in the sand.

[scuzzy]

Except that Freedom of Movement is actually a rule. And handchecking is really banned.

Good job on the W, bud. Your prize is keeping your head in the sand.
Hand checking very much exists today, on every possession

[3ball]

All this is due to the NBA as a whole not being able to shoot past 20 feet efficiently.

That's black mark, not a positive.


having teammates that can't shoot past 20 feet (no spacing) makes it HARDER for Jordan, not easier

that's the whole point - mj didn't have spacing, while harden has goat spacing

what's harder - scoring with spacing, or without??.. you think harden would be getting 38 a game if you took away his spacing?

[LoneyROY7]

The Unstoppable One.

https://media.giphy.com/media/KB2FoTSQUzrBp26GG7/giphy.gif

Can't.

https://media.giphy.com/media/TgPLBgUky9NeVEaoFj/giphy.gif

Stop.

https://media.giphy.com/media/L3WWdvb2htgUzbOc1v/giphy.gif

Him.

:eek: :eek:

[SomeBlackDude]

so... we're still pretending that the 'freedom of movement' era with dudes averaging 30 pt triple doubles over multiple seasons and teams routinely scoring 130-150 in regulation isn't a complete and utter joke with grossly inflated $tats? :confusedshrug:

unless lefam wants to talk about how a 20 year old chubby euro kid is putting up better all around numbers than legoat ever did.

we could have that conversation if y'all are ready.

:confusedshrug:

[RRR3]

You can always count on SBD to bring up LeBron in a thread that’s about Jordan not being perfect.


Quivering in his space jam PJs :eek:

[SomeBlackDude]

checks espn. sees the lowly orlando magic dropped 130 points in regulation today.

marvels at how advanced and complicated the defense is today.

:bowdown:

[QUOTE=RRR3]You can always count on SBD to bring up LeBron in a thread that

[And1AllDay]

BWUAAHAHAHAHAHA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIq7ma7c6UE) :roll: :roll:


https://media.giphy.com/media/65ODCwM00NVmEyLsX3/giphy.gif

wow is that 80s and 90s ball :oldlol: :oldlol:

[LoneyROY7]

Harden's skillset is undeniable.

All the old heads can do is "uhh well the era, umm spacing, I mean freedom of movement..."

https://media1.giphy.com/media/3ohhwF34cGDoFFhRfy/giphy.gif

[And1AllDay]

so... we're still pretending that the 'freedom of movement' era with dudes averaging 30 pt triple doubles over multiple seasons and teams routinely scoring 130-150 in regulation isn't a complete and utter joke with grossly inflated $tats? :confusedshrug:

unless lefam wants to talk about how a 20 year old chubby euro kid is putting up better all around numbers than legoat ever did.

we could have that conversation if y'all are ready.

:confusedshrug:

:oldlol:

bran fans focus on playoff stats

you can keep your regular season warrior badge :oldlol: :oldlol:

[NBAGOAT]

so... we're still pretending that the 'freedom of movement' era with dudes averaging 30 pt triple doubles over multiple seasons and teams routinely scoring 130-150 in regulation isn't a complete and utter joke with grossly inflated $tats? :confusedshrug:

unless lefam wants to talk about how a 20 year old chubby euro kid is putting up better all around numbers than legoat ever did.

we could have that conversation if y'all are ready.

:confusedshrug:

When a guys putting up 40 and the next highest is 30, he’s noteworthy no matter what

You can use all these talking points that are true but don’t show the big picture. The fact is teams are averaging 110.4pts/game right now and averaged 109.9/game in 87. If it’s inflated for perimeter guys it should be deflated for someone else right? (ps it’s likely big men who post a lot). I rarely seen that accounted for with guys like embiid, towns, or jokic however or even 2nd tier bigs. Like it’s not hard even seeing kanter as a 18/12 guy in some eras, he’s just a bench piece now who’s unplayable at times

Lukas really damn good and definitely better than young lebron in some areas. Calling him a chubby kid is just being obtusely disrespectful

[RRR3]

https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/3c50c718-2c07-4fd1-94d5-8474085e5865_1.5deb715e778ea696503d70adc25a65f7.jp eg

https://media3.giphy.com/media/tpWiSiLFFPInC/giphy.gif

:lol

[StrongLurk]

NBAGOAT just adding more evidence for the truth.

People are acting like every star is scoring 40ppg like Harden when no one else is even close to him...not even close.

Harden has reached such a crazy level that people don't want to believe it.

Harden's iso skill is crazy because he DOESNT LOSE EFFICIENCY with MORE VOLUME.

He basically upped his shots a ton over the last 4 years...yet his efficiency hasn't dropped because you can't stop a guy who scores off of isos far away from the basket.

[imdaman99]

imagine people like hornacek an starks on an island vers King harden too

Starks would be great in the current NBA. He was almost as good defensively as Tony Allen was and he was a lot better offensively. If you're gonna insult someone you've never watched, expect someone that has seen them play to educate you :confusedshrug:

[SomeBlackDude]

wow is that 80s and 90s ball :oldlol: :oldlol:

that's a college team running through different zone schemes.

for reference on 90s defense, watch this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28y59DjqVvs).

^ain't nobody dropping 130 in regulation on that. trust that. :lol

[LoneyROY7]

Harden in the 90s:
https://i.postimg.cc/Nf8mwPSj/HardenMJ.jpg

MJ Fans:
https://media1.giphy.com/media/3ohhwF34cGDoFFhRfy/giphy.gif

[superduper]

What you dense mothafkas dont understand is that 87 Jordan REVOLUTIONIZED the game. Harden is doing what he is doing because he LEARNED from what 87 Jordan did for the game of basketball with his unique dominant perimeter guard style.

Comparing the two is so damn idiotic.

[NBAGOAT]

What you dense mothafkas dont understand is that 87 Jordan REVOLUTIONIZED the game. Harden is doing what he is doing because he LEARNED from what 87 Jordan did for the game of basketball with his unique dominant perimeter guard style.

Comparing the two is so damn idiotic.

Completely true but not really a strong point. It

[SomeBlackDude]

Harden in the 90s:
https://i.postimg.cc/Nf8mwPSj/HardenMJ.jpg


harden before the freedom of movement era: 27-29 ppg peak player.

same with teammate brody- all of a sudden became a 30 pt triple double machine out of the blue.

but nah, the rockets dropping almost 160 points in regulation... multiple times in a season = defense is impenetrable now.

:yaohappy:

[LoneyROY7]

https://media1.giphy.com/media/3ohhwF34cGDoFFhRfy/giphy.gif

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

Harden pre-prime: 29 ppg.

Harden middle of prime: 39 ppg.

Harden improves his game every season. He gets better. I know that's a novel concept.

[RRR3]

Harden in the 90s:
https://i.postimg.cc/Nf8mwPSj/HardenMJ.jpg

MJ Fans:
https://media1.giphy.com/media/3ohhwF34cGDoFFhRfy/giphy.gif
That gif is perfect for MJ stans

[SomeBlackDude]

amazing how a player waits until he's 30 to hit his prime.

brave new world.

nba keeps doing what it's doing, luka's gonna be putting up 50-15-15 when he's 35 in his prime.

teams are gonna be dropping 225 in regulation like it's nothing.

bronny jr stans gonna be like 'damn, that defense is too advanced.'

:yaohappy:

[LAmbruh]

Harden in the 90s:
https://i.postimg.cc/Nf8mwPSj/HardenMJ.jpg

MJ Fans:
https://media1.giphy.com/media/3ohhwF34cGDoFFhRfy/giphy.gif
:roll:

[RRR3]

Bron jr is the prince that was promised. Word is he’s got a killer jumper imagine LeBron with Curry’s shot :biggums:

MJ stans better be ready

[LoneyROY7]

amazing how a player waits until he's 30 to hit his prime.

brave new world.

nba keeps doing what it's doing, luka's gonna be putting up 50-15-15 when he's 35.

bronny jr stans gonna be like 'damn, that defense is too advanced.'

:yaohappy:

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Since Harden hit 27 years old he's been averaging 33/9/7.

https://media1.giphy.com/media/3ohhwF34cGDoFFhRfy/giphy.gif

[SomeBlackDude]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Since Harden hit 27 years old he's been averaging 33/9/7.


nba- stop playing defense, goddamnit. (https://official.nba.com/2015-16-points-of-emphasis-memos-memo-11-freedom-of-movement/) :rant

nba teams set records for ortg, efg, etc. all of a sudden squads dropping 150 in regulation isn't cause for alarm.

beard- goes from a 29 ppg player at 27 years old to a 40 ppg player at 30 years old.

brody- averages 30 pt triple double over an entire season.

luka- 20 year old chubby euro kid puts up better stats than legoat's whole career.

lefam- guess defenses are just getting better, mayne. :cletus:

[LoneyROY7]

nba- stop playing defense, goddamnit. (https://official.nba.com/2015-16-points-of-emphasis-memos-memo-11-freedom-of-movement/) :rant

nba teams set records for ortg, efg, etc. all of a sudden squads dropping 150 in regulation isn't cause for alarm.

beard- goes from a 29 ppg player at 27 years old to a 40 ppg player at 30 years old.

brody- averages 30 pt triple double over an entire season.

luka- 20 year old chubby euro kid puts up better stats than legoat's whole career.

lefam- guess defenses are just getting better, mayne. :cletus:

A 29 ppg player averaging 11 assists. :lol :lol

Conveniently left out by this genius.

:yaohappy:

[SomeBlackDude]

A 29 ppg player averaging 11 assists. :lol :lol

Conveniently left out by this genius.

:yaohappy:

sorry, bruh.

the beard is just a product of his environment (https://ak-static.cms.nba.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2015/12/2015-16-REFEREE-OPERATIONS-MEMO-6.pdf).

manufactured to the max.

silver has you fools eating out of the palm of his skeletal hands.

too bad about the ratings backfire doe.

real ninjas know the deal.

ain't watching that bullshit.

:whatever:

[LoneyROY7]

A player drops his APG average down 4 full assists and looks to score more, while further developing his scoring arsenal...

"UhHhH fReEDoM Of MoVEmeNt..."

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[StrongLurk]

Basically no one can knock the numbers because PER 100/POSS takes out PACE.

Harden honestly has had possibly the most productive scoring streak EVER over the last 120 games.

Most points ever per 100 possessions and he has been efficient as well.

MJ did his biggest scoring damage in the run n gun 80's, but it's not okay for Harden to do this now...riiiiiggghhht.

[SomeBlackDude]

"UhHhH fReEDoM Of MoVEmeNt..."

:roll: :roll: :roll:

riiiiight.

let's make believe there isn't a paper trail.

on official nba letterhead.

https://i.postimg.cc/C1S1QktS/NBA-Freedom-of-Movement.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/13F3Rv1y/NBA-Freedom-of-Movement-2.jpg

spelled out for you.

worst hidden conspiracy of all time.

next time the rockets drop damn near 160 points in regulation, you'll know why.

try to look surprised.

[LoneyROY7]

All he can do is spam freedom of movement.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Harden took 18.9 FGA a game back when he averaged 29/11. Now he's taking 25 FGA per game. Since numbers seem a little tough for you, he's taking 6 more shots a game now.

"But but but...uhhh"

https://media1.giphy.com/media/3ohhwF34cGDoFFhRfy/giphy.gif

[LAmbruh]

Loney taking BlackDude to school :yaohappy: :applause:

[Keno]

https://i.postimg.cc/htGrTmNf/2h3p1rahzt441.jpg

:roll: :roll: :roll:

goat picture :bowdown:

[SomeBlackDude]

Harden took 18.9 FGA a game back when he averaged 29/11. Now he's taking 25 FGA per game. Since numbers seem a little tough for you, he's taking 6 more shots a game now.


yes... the result of the rule changes.

everyone, every team is taking more fga... and scoring more... at higher (record setting) efficiency.

silver's somewhere prob reading your posts like

https://i.postimg.cc/prdK3g7W/thats-the-point-son-you-missed-it-flew-right-by-ya.jpg

freedom of movement = more shot opportunities = bigger, inflated $tats

[scuzzy]

Illegal defense created in the 80's was a rule specifically made to benefit Iso players and enforce spacing


Freedom of movement doesn't have shit on that insulting ruleset.


You literally didn't even need a outside shot and defenders STILL had to guard you on the perimeter


It was a joke


https://media.giphy.com/media/3ohhwNy8ECpVEVdbos/giphy.gif


https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7aDfxVAFNwZKCnp6/giphy.gif

[LoneyROY7]

yes... the result of the rule changes.

everyone, every team is taking more fga... and scoring more... at higher (record setting) efficiency.

silver's somewhere prob reading your posts like

https://i.postimg.cc/prdK3g7W/thats-the-point-son-you-missed-it-flew-right-by-ya.jpg

freedom of movement = more shot opportunities = bigger, inflated $tats

"Uhhhh, more shot opportunities..."

*Checks the 1987 pace and Jordan's shot attempts*

https://media1.giphy.com/media/3ohhwF34cGDoFFhRfy/giphy.gif

[Rico2016]

Illegal defense created in the 80's was a rule specifically made to benefit Iso players and enforce spacing


Freedom of movement doesn't have shit on that insulting ruleset.


You literally didn't even need a outside shot and defenders STILL had to guard you on the perimeter


It was a joke


https://media.giphy.com/media/3ohhwNy8ECpVEVdbos/giphy.gif


https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7aDfxVAFNwZKCnp6/giphy.gif

Decimation

[LoneyROY7]

The pace during 1986-87 season (MJ's highest scoring year): 100.8

The current pace of 2019-20 season: 100.8

You. Can't. Make. This. Shit. Up.

:yaohappy: :yaohappy: :yaohappy:

[SomeBlackDude]

Illegal defense created in the 80's was a rule specifically made to benefit Iso players and enforce spacing


Freedom of movement doesn't have shit on that insulting ruleset.

1997-1998 (end of the nba golden era)
ppg: 95.6
ortg: .478
efg: 105

2018-2019 (freedom of movement, ratings disaster era)
ppg: 110.4 (highest in post merger nba history)
ortg: 110.4 (highest all time)
efg: 524 (highest all time)

but yeah everything you said is true.

:yaohappy:

[LAmbruh]

Illegal defense created in the 80's was a rule specifically made to benefit Iso players and enforce spacing


Freedom of movement doesn't have shit on that insulting ruleset.


You literally didn't even need a outside shot and defenders STILL had to guard you on the perimeter


It was a joke


https://media.giphy.com/media/3ohhwNy8ECpVEVdbos/giphy.gif


https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7aDfxVAFNwZKCnp6/giphy.gif

Imagine Harden and Lebron single covered under illegal defense rules with a shortened 3 point line


Good god

:yaohappy:

[LoneyROY7]

Harden at a 100.8 possession pace: 39 ppg on 25 shots.

MJ at a 100.8 possession pace: 37 ppg on 28 shots.

https://media.giphy.com/media/jUwpNzg9IcyrK/giphy.gif

[SomeBlackDude]

Imagine Harden and Lebron single covered under illegal defense rules with a shortened 3 point line


Good god

:yaohappy:

good gravy.

he'd probably average 39 points per game.

oh wait...

https://i.makeagif.com/media/12-15-2018/7rkDFz.gif

:yaohappy:

[scuzzy]

Imagine Harden and Lebron single covered under illegal defense rules with a shortened 3 point line


Good god

:yaohappy:
Notice Hughes getting away with the "banned" hand checking the entire sequence as well! :oldlol:

[Gil Renard]

Harden is the better scorer. He

[LoneyROY7]

Harden against two of the best perimeter defenders in basketball.

https://media.giphy.com/media/j3IolL9PBylznbvXbv/giphy.gif

Breaks Bev's knee and swishes a step-back 3 AND-1 over both of them.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[SomeBlackDude]

Harden at a 100.8 possession pace: 39 ppg on 25 shots.

MJ at a 100.8 possession pace: 37 ppg on 28 shots.

https://media.giphy.com/media/jUwpNzg9IcyrK/giphy.gif

technically this season the beard is playing on a 103.7 pace team.

mikey j was on a 95.8 pace team in '87.

but please, don't let minor details get in the way of a great story.

[LoneyROY7]

technically this season the beard is playing on a 103.7 pace team.

mikey j was on a 95.8 pace team in '87.

but please, don't let minor details get in the way of a great story.

League average pace in 1986-87: 100.8.

League average pace in 2019-20: 100.8.

MJ's shot attempts in 1986-87: 28.

Harden's shot attempts in 2019-20: 25.

https://media1.giphy.com/media/3ohhwF34cGDoFFhRfy/giphy.gif

[SomeBlackDude]

League average pace in 1986-87: 100.8.

League average pace in 2019-20: 100.8.

MJ's shot attempts in 1986-87: 28.

Harden's shot attempts in 2019-20: 25.


season's still young.

last full 'freedom of movement' season results:

2018-2019
ppg: 110.4 (highest in post merger nba history)
ortg: 110.4 (highest all time)
efg: .524 (highest all time)

litrally the worst defensive season the nba has ever seen. by all measures.

and the basketball gods blessed us with the opportunity to watch it (plummeting ratings not considered).

or maybe offenses just all of a sudden got so much better mysteriously after the rule changes? :confusedshrug:

either way, don't let a pesky thing like facts get in the way of the beard's narrative.

plenty of dudes hit their athletic prime at 30.

https://i.makeagif.com/media/12-15-2018/7rkDFz.gif

[LoneyROY7]

Harden at 30 years old:

https://media.giphy.com/media/KB2FoTSQUzrBp26GG7/giphy.gif

https://media.giphy.com/media/XgBa8FepVkYhUCpOQA/giphy.gif

Electric first step.

"Uhhh, you can't be in your physical prime at 30...."

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[ImKobe]

League average pace in 1986-87: 100.8.

League average pace in 2019-20: 100.8.

MJ's shot attempts in 1986-87: 28.

Harden's shot attempts in 2019-20: 25.

https://media1.giphy.com/media/3ohhwF34cGDoFFhRfy/giphy.gif

Nice try. The '87 Bulls played at a 95.8 pace (dead last in the league)
The Rockets are playing at a 103.7 pace (5th in the league).

'88-'91 MJ was better than the '87 version but even the '87 version was arguably the best defensive player in the league so Harden's nowhere near his level.

[StrongLurk]

Thread Summary:

Let's look at PER 100/POSS in the regular season. Harden has a sizable advantage on scoring efficiency regarding EFG% and FT%

Harden in 18-19
48.2/8.9/10 with 2.7 stls, EFG% 54.1, 87.9 FT%

Harden in 19-20
48/7.2/9.1 with 2.4stls, EFG% 54.8, 88.3 FT%

MJ in 86-87
46.4/6.6/5.8 with 3.6 stls, EFG% 48.4, 85.7 FT%

Harden against the Warriors last year
35/7/5.5 with 2.2 steals on 59.4TS%, 53.4 EFG%

Jordan 87 playoffs was swept by the Celtics (no surprise).
35.7/7/6 with 2 steals on 52.9TS%, 42.9 EFG%

So yeah, this thread has proven Harden over the least 120 games or so has been better than 86-87 Jordan.

Idk why people want to fight so much on this. Jordan was only 23 at the time...Jordan isn't invincible.

Basically if we removed the names...people would pick "Harden".

[3ball]

Harden in 18-19
48.2/8.9/10 with 2.7 stls, EFG% 54.1, 87.9 FT% (with spacing)

Harden in 19-20
48/7.2/9.1 with 2.4stls, EFG% 54.8, 88.3 FT% (with spacing)

MJ in 86-87
46.4/6.6/5.8 with 3.6 stls, EFG% 48.4, 85.7 FT% (without spacing)


it's amazing that someone came anywhere near Harden's stats without spacing... :eek: :bowdown:

MJ's numbers are far more impressive.. it's not remotely close and this thread is dumb

harden can only dream of doing what MJ could do (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lRDAK8Qq4RM&t=0m57s)
.