2005 Larry Hughes what an underrated season

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

dude was a monster that year and def a top 10 SG easily in the league

22/6/5 with 3 steals a game. Finished 3pts short of the top 5 in DPOY voting:applause:

the Wizards had some of the worst defensive players in the league. Arenas, Jamison, Kwame, Jarvis Hayes, Juan Dixon, :biggums:

[3ball]

i remember Max Kellerman emphatically stating that the Cavs would run the table when IT got healthy and joined the Cavs

it didn't happen

and I remember when the Cavs were contemplating between adding either Amar'e Stoudamire or Antawn Jamison - both were considered huge pickups, and the Cavs chose Jamison

but he underwhelmed just like IT

Then there's Hughes... he was considered a monster pickup in 06', but once again... no dice..

all these guys were considered big pickups at the time, but essentially failed their expectation

there's 1 common thread between them however - they were all subjected to Lebron-ball, which destroyed their game.. imagine being gifted a 22/5/5 all-defender like lebron got, rather than having to develop one like MJ

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

i remember Max Kellerman emphatically stating that the Cavs would run the table when IT got healthy and joined the Cavs

it didn't happen

and I remember when the Cavs were contemplating between adding either Amar'e Stoudamire or Antawn Jamison - both were considered huge pickups, and the Cavs chose Jamison

but he underwhelmed just like IT

Then there's Hughes... he was considered a monster pickup in 06', but once again... no dice..

all these guys were considered big pickups at the time, but essentially failed their expectation

there's 1 common thread between them however - they were all subjected to Lebron-ball, which destroyed their game



same thing with Jamison - he was supposed to be a big pickyp

didnt they sign prime Shaq as well coming off an 18/9 season in just 30 minutes a game on 61% shooting, allstar year leading the league in FG%, 2PT% and EFG%? 94, 00, 01, 04 and 06 are the only other years in his career he was that dominant inside. Kobe and Wade managed to win with Shaq when he was that dominant. How about in Cleveland?

IIRC they needed him since no one on the team could handle Dwight or guard 1-5?

Thoughts?

[SpaceJam]

didnt they sign prime Shaq as well coming off an 18/9 season in just 30 minutes a game on 61% shooting, allstar year leading the league in FG%, 2PT% and EFG%? 94, 00, 01, 04 and 06 are the only other years in his career he was that dominant inside. Kobe and Wade managed to win with Shaq when he was that dominant. How about in Cleveland?

IIRC they needed him since no one on the team could handle Dwight or guard 1-5?

Thoughts?

In one thread it's debated that the 08 Celtics weren't a super team because they were 'old' (30-32) in another thread 37 year old Shaq is considered substantial help.

ISH, never change

[Manny98]

i remember Max Kellerman emphatically stating that the Cavs would run the table when IT got healthy and joined the Cavs

it didn't happen

and I remember when the Cavs were contemplating between adding either Amar'e Stoudamire or Antawn Jamison - both were considered huge pickups, and the Cavs chose Jamison

but he underwhelmed just like IT

Then there's Hughes... he was considered a monster pickup in 06', but once again... no dice..

all these guys were considered big pickups at the time, but essentially failed their expectation

there's 1 common thread between them however - they were all subjected to Lebron-ball, which destroyed their game.. imagine being gifted a 22/5/5 all-defender like lebron got, rather than having to develop one like MJ
MJ missed the playoffs with Hughes

[SouBeachTalents]

OP making all these cringe threads talking about Larry Hughes and "prime" 38 year old Shaq, when his favorite player literally ran off to a 73 win team that had just kicked his ass to the curb one month earlier :oldlol:

[superduper]

Man that Larry Hughes was a MONSTER in 2005 :eek:

[Ghost1]

Man that Larry Hunges is a MONSTER :eek:


:eek: :eek: :eek:

[3ball]

What was the first year Pippen was capable of 22/5/5 and 1st team all defense?

No earlier than 1992

Let that sink in.

So Jordan practically won the championship in 1990 with a sidekick that was far less than 05' Hughes, and then he won the championship in 1991 with a 19' Siakam-level sidekick (kawhi-style carry-job but carrying far more, aka far better stats).

[warriorfan]

Larry HUGE

[SpaceJam2]

In one thread it's debated that the 08 Celtics weren't a super team because they were 'old' (30-32) in another thread 37 year old Shaq is considered substantial help.

ISH, never change

Lock it up

[3ball]

Lock it up
he compared "substantial help" to super-team help

unlock

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

What was the first year Pippen was capable of 22/5/5 and 1st team all defense?

No earlier than 1992

Let that sink in.

So Jordan practically won the championship in 1990 with a sidekick that was far less than 05' Hughes, and then he won the championship in 1991 with a 19' Siakam-level sidekick (kawhi-style carry-job but carrying far more, aka far better stats).


:roll: :roll:

Kawhis help in 19 was FAR greater than MJs

we talking about a team that went 17-5 when he missed games. Look at what the same rotation is doing now................Lowry, Marc, Danny, Siakam were all easily top 10 players at their positions and Lowry/Siakam both all star caliber. All 4 of those guys were all defense caliber too. Serge was one of the best bench bigs and FVV was arguably the best bench PG

from 86-93 MJs cast went 22-49 without him (25 win pace) and ur comparing that to Kawhis help:roll:

[Vino24]

MJ played with an even better version of Larry Hughes. A Hughes that was better than any version of Pippen

[3ball]

:roll: :roll:

Kawhis help in 19 was FAR greater than MJs

we talking about a team that went 17-5 when he missed games. Look at what the same rotation is doing now................Lowry, Marc, Danny, Siakam were all easily top 10 players at their positions and Lowry/Siakam both all star caliber. All 4 of those guys were all defense caliber too. Serge was one of the best bench bigs and FVV was arguably the best bench PG

from 86-93 MJs cast went 22-49 without him (25 win pace) and ur comparing that to Kawhis help:roll:
I agree, and which span are those numbers including - the 85-86' season through 92-93' season, or 86-87' season thru 92-93'?

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

I agree, and which span are those numbers including - the 85-86' season through 92-93' season, or 86-87' season thru 92-93'?

86 (injury year) to 93

u can throw rookie year and basically just say from rookie to 93 since he played all 82 in his rookie year

[Vino24]

MJ played with an even better version of Larry Hughes. A Hughes that was better than any version of Pippen
3ball?

[3ball]

86 (injury year) to 93

u can throw rookie year and basically just say from rookie to 93 since he played all 82 in his rookie year
Indeed, the Bulls record without Jordan before they developed the 3-peat system was infact garbage and they needed that system to win in 1994..

It should be common knowledge that teams who have spent years building a good system/chemistry can be decent without the star (i.e. 20' Raptors, Spurs without Duncan, 94' Bulls, and even the Warriors without Curry aren't doormats)..

In addition to an experienced system/chemistry, a team that moves the ball will also fall off less without the star, while a 1-ball-dominator team will fall off more, like Nash or CP3's teams in 12' and 13', or Lebron's teams.. So it's even more remarkable that MJ's Bulls fell off so much without him, since his teams didn't use 1 big ball-dominator and he frequently played off-ball..

MJ controlled the game with less dribbling by finishing a great many plays and had the goat burden, i.e. goat scorer and goat scoring burden (10-25 more than 2nd option for every regular season and every playoff series - that's an insane scoring burden/margin over 2nd option), goat-level defense, team-leading passer (led in apg for 6 of 9 playoff runs alongside Pip)..

there is no bigger load than that unless you consider defensive rebounding, which can be done by any minimum player.. so the pre-three-peat Bulls' drop-off without MJ makes a lot of sense.
.

[AirBonner]

MJ played with an even better version of Larry Hughes. A Hughes that was better than any version of Pippen
Yikes MJ exposed again :eek:

[Smoke117]

Wait, so Larry hughes is 10 times the player Pippen was, but Jordan couldn't make the playoffs playing with him in his prime? :biggums: Wow.

[stalkerforlife]

One of the best defenders of all time.

Not enough help.

[72-10]

Most ppl think he sucked defensively generally speaking over the course of his career, but not that year, when he really stepped his defensive game up.